[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":67099},["ShallowReactive",2],{"/podcast/deep-dive-167-vr-development-mit-sebastian-schuchmann-robin-bittlinger":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":215,"speakerCount":216,"relatedPodcasts":217,"transcript":462},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"cover_image":14,"banner_image":27,"speakers":38,"members":91,"picks_of_the_day":124,"tags":186,"tagsPrepared":211,"speakersPrepared":212},"5e98f8d9-17e6-479e-bbf2-c24a075b8d6c","2024-11-15T16:00:00.000Z","deep_dive","167","VR Development mit Sebastian Schuchmann & Robin Bittlinger","deep-dive-167-vr-development-mit-sebastian-schuchmann-robin-bittlinger","\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Als Spieleentwickler sind wir auf vielen Plattformen unterwegs. Eine Plattform ist aber auch f&uuml;r uns besonders neu und spannend: Virtual Reality!\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Sebastian &bdquo;Seppi&ldquo; Schuchmann und Robin Bittlinger vom Studio \u003Ca href=\"https://ditached.de/\">Ditached\u003C/a> sind schon l&auml;nger in virtuellen Welten unterwegs. Die beiden waren bereits bei einem Event unserer Design-Community \u003Ca href=\"https://about.design/events/\">about.design\u003C/a> zu Gast und haben dort &uuml;ber ihre Arbeit gesprochen.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Nun sprechen wir auch im Podcast mit ihnen und erfahren, wie es ist, ganz vorne mit dabei zu sein und mit Apple gemeinsam auf den Launch der Vision Pro hinzuarbeiten.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Wir sprechen mit Robin und Seppi &uuml;ber die einzigartigen Herausforderungen beim Designen, Entwickeln und Debuggen von Spielen und Anwendungen im virtuellen Raum. Dabei diskutieren wir auch die Reife der unterschiedlichen Plattformen von Apple und Meta und den Stand des &Ouml;kosystems allgemein. Au&szlig;erdem blicken wir auf zuk&uuml;nftige Entwicklungen und definieren, was neue Hardware leisten kann und muss.\u003C/p>",null,"https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/episodes/16110973-deep-dive-167-vr-development-mit-sebastian-schuchmann-robin-bittlinger.mp3",{"id":15,"title":16,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":17,"filename_download":18,"metadata":19,"type":20,"filesize":21,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":22,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":24,"folder":25,"width":26,"height":26,"charset":12,"duration":12},"414980a9-e8f4-4c71-8b4a-4f9abc837763","167 Ig Fb Sebastian Schuchmann Und Robin Bittlinger","414980a9-e8f4-4c71-8b4a-4f9abc837763.png","167_ig_fb_Sebastian_Schuchmann und Robin Bittlinger.png",{},"image/png","1538802","2024-11-15T08:45:25.057Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-11-15T08:45:25.054Z","35140572-5f04-494b-b197-bd9ef1edc33d",1500,{"id":28,"title":29,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":30,"filename_download":31,"metadata":32,"type":20,"filesize":33,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":34,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":35,"folder":12,"width":36,"height":37,"charset":12,"duration":12},"9d261de2-8a35-4071-8271-34d7c12fd4ac","Bildschirmfoto 2024 11 15 Um 08.54.35","9d261de2-8a35-4071-8271-34d7c12fd4ac.png","Bildschirmfoto 2024-11-15 um 08.54.35.png",{},"782254","2024-11-15T08:06:35.719Z","2024-11-15T08:06:35.717Z",944,910,[39,68],{"speaker":40},{"id":41,"slug":42,"academic_title":12,"occupation":43,"first_name":44,"last_name":45,"description":46,"event_image":47,"profile_image":59},"63755fde-b4a6-4cf3-92d9-2f0eb29ed6a4","sebastian-schuchmann","Co-Founder und CTO bei Ditached","Sebastian","Schuchmann","\u003Cp>Sebastian Schuchmann ist Co-Founder und CTO bei Ditached in Offenbach am Main.\u003C/p>",{"id":48,"title":49,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":50,"filename_download":51,"metadata":52,"type":53,"filesize":54,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":55,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":56,"folder":12,"width":57,"height":58,"charset":12,"duration":12},"d0a0ca36-85b8-42fb-bb53-991622e49954","Sebastian Schuchmann Event","d0a0ca36-85b8-42fb-bb53-991622e49954.jpg","Sebastian_Schuchmann_event.jpg",{},"image/jpeg","943221","2024-11-15T08:07:04.108Z","2024-11-15T08:07:04.105Z",1536,1024,{"id":60,"title":61,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":62,"filename_download":63,"metadata":64,"type":53,"filesize":65,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":66,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":67,"folder":12,"width":58,"height":58,"charset":12,"duration":12},"05cc0450-4bc1-476a-a103-4a7a55df9102","Sebastian Schuchmann Profile","05cc0450-4bc1-476a-a103-4a7a55df9102.jpg","Sebastian_Schuchmann_profile.jpg",{},"694926","2024-11-15T08:06:55.553Z","2024-11-15T08:06:55.550Z",{"speaker":69},{"id":70,"slug":71,"academic_title":12,"occupation":72,"first_name":73,"last_name":74,"description":75,"event_image":76,"profile_image":82},"9d1ffbd4-3ec2-4ff8-b8e0-baa51ccc881a","robin-bittlinger","Chief Design Officer bei Ditached","Robin","Bittlinger","\u003Cp>Robin Bittlinger ist Chief Design Officer bei Ditached in Offenbach am Main.\u003C/p>",{"id":77,"title":49,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":78,"filename_download":51,"metadata":79,"type":53,"filesize":54,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":80,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":81,"folder":12,"width":57,"height":58,"charset":12,"duration":12},"c869778e-ea61-4190-93bb-5e0da3e0fc74","c869778e-ea61-4190-93bb-5e0da3e0fc74.jpg",{},"2024-11-15T08:07:17.559Z","2024-11-15T08:07:17.556Z",{"id":83,"title":84,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":85,"filename_download":86,"metadata":87,"type":53,"filesize":88,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":89,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":90,"folder":12,"width":58,"height":58,"charset":12,"duration":12},"0a27b6e2-2bca-4107-8bc5-4056c5f3eb83","Robin Bittlinger Profile","0a27b6e2-2bca-4107-8bc5-4056c5f3eb83.jpg","Robin_Bittlinger_profile.jpg",{},"409294","2024-11-15T08:07:13.890Z","2024-11-15T08:07:13.887Z",[92,108],{"member":93},{"id":94,"first_name":95,"last_name":96,"occupation":97,"description":98,"normal_image":99},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","// programmier.bar Tech Community Lead // Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich &uuml;ber Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielf&auml;ltigen Rollen &ndash; vom Entwickler &uuml;ber den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development &ndash; verf&uuml;gt Jan &uuml;ber einen gro&szlig;en Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchg&auml;ngen an exotischen Orten &uuml;ber das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in B&uuml;chern und Filmen.\u003C/p>",{"id":100,"title":101,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":102,"filename_download":103,"metadata":104,"type":53,"filesize":105,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":106,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":107,"folder":12,"width":58,"height":58,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b","Jan CD","ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b.jpg","Jan_CD.jpg",{},"649400","2024-07-26T09:26:17.846Z","2024-07-26T09:26:17.710Z",{"member":109},{"id":110,"first_name":111,"last_name":112,"occupation":113,"description":114,"normal_image":115},"11d2e9b0-4443-4287-96bc-3930b0ada739","Dave","Koschitzki","// Website // Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dave ist seit 2024 Mitglied des programmier.bar-Teams. Neben seiner Arbeit an der Website-Entwicklung bringt er frischen Wind in den Podcast und ist regelm&auml;&szlig;ig bei Meetups anzutreffen. Seine Leidenschaft f&uuml;r Games, die er sowohl auf der Konsole als auch am PC spielt, ist un&uuml;bersehbar.\u003Cbr>&nbsp;\u003Cbr>Wenn er nicht gerade in virtuelle Welten eintaucht, trifft man ihn im Fitnessstudio, wo er mit Begeisterung Gewichte stemmt. Dave bereichert das Team nicht nur durch seine technischen F&auml;higkeiten, sondern auch durch seine vielseitigen Interessen und ansteckende Energie.\u003C/p>",{"id":116,"title":117,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":118,"filename_download":119,"metadata":120,"type":53,"filesize":121,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":122,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":123,"folder":12,"width":58,"height":58,"charset":12,"duration":12},"578c2a0f-e919-4668-9cb4-f5b97252d57f","Dave CD","578c2a0f-e919-4668-9cb4-f5b97252d57f.jpg","Dave_CD.jpg",{},"675668","2024-07-29T14:46:16.725Z","2024-07-29T14:46:16.613Z",[125,141,157,173],{"id":126,"name":127,"website_url":128,"description":129,"image":130},"5bd42ff2-1319-47b1-8d5f-f1803fca8afb","Factorio: Space Age","https://factorio.com/game/content-space-age","\u003Cp>Factorio war schon einmal ein Pick of the Day in der programmier.bar. Die jetzt neu erschienene Erweiterung &bdquo;Space Age&ldquo; baut das Spiel aber noch einmal massiv aus und f&uuml;hrt so viele neue Mechaniken ein, dass es erneut einen Pick wert ist!\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Neben der Reise auf unterschiedliche Planeten und Raumstationen gilt es, sich gegen neue Kreaturen und Asteroiden zu verteidigen. Und nat&uuml;rlich gibt es viele neue Technologien zu entwickeln.\u003C/p>",{"id":131,"title":12,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":132,"filename_download":133,"metadata":134,"type":53,"filesize":135,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":136,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":137,"uploaded_on":138,"folder":12,"width":139,"height":140,"charset":12,"duration":12},"24add532-3a6f-42a8-9705-fb0343a2af20","24add532-3a6f-42a8-9705-fb0343a2af20.jpg","factorio-com-game-content-space-age.jpg",{},"235052","2024-10-24T11:46:59.004Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2024-10-24T11:46:58.908Z",1366,768,{"id":142,"name":143,"website_url":144,"description":145,"image":146},"1d87786a-2ef2-49eb-b07f-fd0f947cda9a","Mario Kart Drift-Tricks","https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NagXaA4PwOE","\u003Cp>Mit Mario Kart haben sicherlich die meisten von uns schon etliche Stunden verbracht. Die wenigsten haben jedoch alle Feinheiten des Spiels gemeistert. Wusstest du etwa, dass du mit bestimmten Akrobatik-Spr&uuml;ngen deine Turbo-Drifts ma&szlig;geblich beeinflussen kannst? Diese Tricks und viele mehr gibt es im Video zu bestaunen.\u003C/p>",{"id":147,"title":148,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":149,"filename_download":150,"metadata":151,"type":20,"filesize":152,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":153,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":137,"uploaded_on":154,"folder":12,"width":155,"height":156,"charset":12,"duration":12},"50889300-072c-436b-b48a-efd9261d0f07","Bildschirmfoto 2024 10 24 Um 13.53.08","50889300-072c-436b-b48a-efd9261d0f07.png","Bildschirmfoto 2024-10-24 um 13.53.08.png",{},"4470753","2024-10-24T11:53:20.340Z","2024-10-24T11:53:19.483Z",2798,1436,{"id":158,"name":159,"website_url":160,"description":161,"image":162},"86398e1e-0d9c-44fb-9a53-2aee1f7950a5","Submerged","https://www.apple.com/de/newsroom/2024/10/apple-debuts-the-first-scripted-film-captured-in-apple-immersive-video/","\u003Cp>Dieser immersive Fiction-Thriller, der Apple Vision Pro-Nutzer:innen auf der ganzen Welt kostenlos zur Verf&uuml;gung steht, l&auml;dt die Zuschauer:innen auf ein U-Boot aus der Zeit des Zweiten Weltkriegs ein und begleitet dessen Besatzung bei ihrem Kampf gegen einen schrecklichen Angriff. Dieser adrenalingeladene Nervenkitzel zeigt die einzigartigen M&ouml;glichkeiten des Storytellings, die durch Apple Immersive Video erm&ouml;glicht werden.\u003C/p>",{"id":163,"title":164,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":165,"filename_download":166,"metadata":167,"type":20,"filesize":168,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":169,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":137,"uploaded_on":170,"folder":12,"width":171,"height":172,"charset":12,"duration":12},"6a200236-582c-4338-bdc5-3571f85e2d5d","Bildschirmfoto 2024 10 24 Um 13.39.01","6a200236-582c-4338-bdc5-3571f85e2d5d.png","Bildschirmfoto 2024-10-24 um 13.39.01.png",{},"3229174","2024-10-24T11:39:50.726Z","2024-10-24T11:39:50.442Z",1960,1104,{"id":174,"name":175,"website_url":176,"description":177,"image":178},"80649d1b-d280-45a7-97a8-5d9ffc0b3d20","Unity Augmented Reality Tools","https://unity.com/de/solutions/xr/ar","\u003Cp>Unity bietet dir von Haus aus bereits viele M&ouml;glichkeiten und Erleichterungen f&uuml;r den Einstieg in die Entwicklung von XR (AR oder VR) Apps. Dazu z&auml;hlen nicht nur Tools f&uuml;r Gestaltung von Interaktion (Controller, Touch, etc.), sondern auch Abstraktionen f&uuml;r haptisches oder visuelles Feedback an die Nutzer:innen.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Und weil Unity plattform&uuml;bergreifend pr&auml;sent ist, k&ouml;nnen deine Projekte dank AR Foundation dann auch den verschiedenen Plattformen ausgeliefert werden &ndash; so zum Beispiel f&uuml;r Apples Vision Pro oder Metas Quest-Reihe.\u003C/p>",{"id":179,"title":12,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":180,"filename_download":181,"metadata":182,"type":53,"filesize":183,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":184,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":137,"uploaded_on":185,"folder":12,"width":139,"height":140,"charset":12,"duration":12},"9c8b0fa0-9c65-4e0b-bf31-b11274bb90c5","9c8b0fa0-9c65-4e0b-bf31-b11274bb90c5.jpg","unity-com-de-solutions-xr-ar.jpg",{},"21793","2024-10-24T11:59:58.186Z","2024-10-24T11:59:58.105Z",[187,191,195,199,203,207],{"tag":188},{"id":189,"name":190},"668a4d88-b844-4424-b013-23c286f46473","VR",{"tag":192},{"id":193,"name":194},"3afbfb13-272f-4dc2-947e-53b22b8188aa","Apple",{"tag":196},{"id":197,"name":198},"e708331e-b87d-428e-95ec-9e18d9b95d29","Meta",{"tag":200},{"id":201,"name":202},"571c0b05-20c7-4e08-bd9e-a6e8c1dae49c","Metaverse",{"tag":204},{"id":205,"name":206},"32bbcaf7-72a5-4853-b055-5408029e3f68","Unity",{"tag":208},{"id":209,"name":210},"b6f8e50c-c54c-428c-98c4-9de75218b775","Games",[188,192,196,200,204,208],[213,214],{"first_name":44,"last_name":45,"profile_image":59,"slug":42,"description":46,"event_image":47,"academic_title":12},{"first_name":73,"last_name":74,"profile_image":82,"slug":71,"description":75,"event_image":76,"academic_title":12},461,191,[218,234,251,267,283,299,317,333,349,365,381,397,413,429,445],{"id":219,"slug":220,"published_on":221,"type":222,"number":12,"title":223,"audio_url":224,"cover_image":225},"178d0c1b-6c4f-4ee8-baf2-22293835d2e1","spezialfolge-iphone-event-2025","2025-09-09T22:26:25.291Z","other","iPhone Event 2025","https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/episodes/17818454-spezialfolge-iphone-event-2025.mp3",{"id":226,"title":227,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":228,"filename_download":229,"metadata":230,"type":20,"filesize":231,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":232,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":137,"uploaded_on":233,"folder":12,"width":26,"height":26,"charset":12,"duration":12},"55afbbbb-ecba-4090-b441-579446bc3b13","I Phone Event 2025","55afbbbb-ecba-4090-b441-579446bc3b13.png","iPhone Event 2025.png",{},"1385295","2025-09-08T14:20:18.288Z","2025-09-08T14:20:18.285Z",{"id":235,"slug":236,"published_on":237,"type":238,"number":239,"title":240,"audio_url":241,"cover_image":242},"acc33cf8-cbc6-4d5a-9f41-6b62e9d1122f","news-36-25-ripplejs-zod-codecs-eslint-multithreading-apple-uicoder","2025-09-04T04:00:00.000Z","news","36/25","RippleJS // Zod Codecs // ESLint Multithreading // Apple UICoder","https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/episodes/17781783-news-36-25-ripplejs-zod-codecs-eslint-multithreading-apple-uicoder.mp3",{"id":243,"title":244,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":245,"filename_download":246,"metadata":247,"type":53,"filesize":248,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":249,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":137,"uploaded_on":250,"folder":12,"width":26,"height":26,"charset":12,"duration":12},"e43dc388-4bc7-42ba-9e66-a26c13bc3277","News Asset 36","e43dc388-4bc7-42ba-9e66-a26c13bc3277.jpg","News-Asset 36.jpg",{},"1490043","2025-09-03T09:33:45.641Z","2025-09-03T09:33:45.639Z",{"id":252,"slug":253,"published_on":254,"type":238,"number":255,"title":256,"audio_url":257,"cover_image":258},"81602052-08c5-4de0-bd67-7a466757be82","news-10-25-leaks-in-copilot-doom-in-typescript-browser-in-benchmarks-c1-chip-in-iphone-16e-quantencomputing-enterjs","2025-03-05T16:00:00.000Z","10/25","Leaks in Copilot // Doom in TypeScript // Browser in Benchmarks // C1 Chip in iPhone 16e // Quantencomputing // enterJS","https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/episodes/16739330-news-10-25-leaks-in-copilot-doom-in-typescript-browser-in-benchmarks-c1-chip-in-iphone-16e-quantencomputing-enterjs.mp3",{"id":259,"title":260,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":261,"filename_download":262,"metadata":263,"type":53,"filesize":264,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":265,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":137,"uploaded_on":266,"folder":25,"width":26,"height":26,"charset":12,"duration":12},"b06aa9b7-342a-4c00-8494-dcab674c71e5","News Asset 10","b06aa9b7-342a-4c00-8494-dcab674c71e5.jpg","News-Asset 10.jpg",{},"1489464","2025-03-05T11:56:44.279Z","2025-03-05T11:56:44.277Z",{"id":268,"slug":269,"published_on":270,"type":238,"number":271,"title":272,"audio_url":273,"cover_image":274},"ce9680e8-0ccb-454d-bb2a-1d14c09b2643","news-06-25-apples-neue-app-javascript-temporal-web-ai-acceleration-fund-angular-dokumentation-ross-ulbricht-bitcoins-in-el-salvador","2025-02-05T16:00:00.000Z","06/25","Apples neue App // JavaScript Temporal // Web AI Acceleration Fund // Angular Dokumentation // Ross Ulbricht // Bitcoins in El 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Super. Mein Dave, als ich heute Morgen hier reingekommen bin, hast Du unten bei uns in der Alm im Meetingraum gesessen und wilde Tai Chi Übungen gemacht. Was hast Du da getan? Tai Chi Übungen tatsächlich. Das ist mein Morgenritual und dann habe ich aber auch noch natürlich die Apple Vision Pro aufgesetzt und 'n bisschen Tiny Finn gespielt. Ah, okay. So einen Zufall aber auch, wir haben nämlich heute die Macher von Tiny Finns gesehen. Ach was, ja, ist verrückt. Wirklich, So Zufall. Wo sind sie? Wo sind sie? Sitzen dir genau gegenüber. Hallo Robin, hallo Sebi. Hi. Hi. Ihr seid das Studio Detached aus Offenbach, richtig? Wunderbar. Also nicht Offenbach, aber wunderbar, dass ihr da seid? Ja, ja, ja. Oh, direkt am Anfang der Hate, ja. Ja, also ich hab ja in Frankfurt studiert und mein Statistikprofessor hat so gefühlt jede Vorlesung damit angefangen mit, was ist das Schönste an. Offen macht der Blick nach Frankfurt und so, ja. Ja, aber das ist ja Klassiker macht sich. Klassiker. Offen macht sich. Ja, da können wir vielleicht auch gleich noch mal, also finde ich wirklich von der Start up Szene können wir vielleicht auch noch mal drüber sprechen. Aber schön, dass ihr auf alle Fälle hier seid. Wir wollten nämlich heute mal ein bisschen über Game Development sprechen. Wir kommen ja auch aus dem Game Development und wir fanden das mal besonders interessant über VR Development im Speziellen zu sprechen und ihr wart ja schon mal bei uns auf einem About Design Event und habt da Tiny Fins vorgestellt. Und weil das so cool war, dachten wir, das ist bestimmt auch für alle Leute da draußen interessant, die leider nicht zu uns kommen konnten und den Talk hören konnten und deshalb sprechen wir hier noch mal darüber. Vielleicht bevor wir da ins Detail sprechen, wie seid ihr überhaupt in den VR Zaubertrank gefallen? Was hat euch da inspiriert, mit eurem ganzen Studio im Prinzip in diese Richtung zu gehen und wo kommt ihr eigentlich her? Ja, gut. Also generell wie a, ich würd's eigentlich größer fassen, eher so dieser Bereich Augmented Reality, Mixed Reality, weil also Virtual Reality würden wir jetzt klassischerweise als das bezeichnen, dann sagen wir, Du hast die Vision Pro auf und Du siehst wirklich gar nichts mehr von der Umgebung, Du bist komplett in der virtuellen Welt. Jetzt bei unserem Spiel Tiny Fins, wo man einfach so Fische durch den Raum steuern kann, siehst Du ja noch die echte Welt, also das wär dann eher so Mixed Reality. Wir haben schon vor, als wir angefangen haben, vor fünf Jahren, also als wir DITEC gegründet haben, da hatten wir mit Augmented Reality losgelegt und das war lustigerweise auch von Anfang an hatten wir so geträumt, oh mein Gott, wenn Apple die Brille raus bringt, das wird der Moment, dann wird a a groß. Ich weiß jetzt noch nicht, ob a a wirklich groß jetzt ist, aber das war son bisschen der Startpunkt, wirklich halt a a auf dem Handy. Und es war schon immer für mich, ich glaub die Magie ist für mich in über die Jahre völlig son kleines bisschen flöten gegangen, aber einfach dieser Moment zu zeigen, hey, ich hab hier 'n Modell, das steht jetzt auf meinem Tisch. Auf einmal ist diese Brücke zwischen digitaler Welt und der echten Welt auf einmal geschlossen. Du zeigst es Leuten, die sind begeistert und dieser Moment ist halt einfach richtig cool und den, ja, versucht man auch noch mit der Vision Pro halt immer noch wieder zu capturen, so ungefähr. Also grundsätzlich ist es auch so, also man hat ja dann diese ganzen Sci Fi Filme im Kopf, Du hast dann irgendwie Iron Man, der mit seinem Javis Interface irgendwelche Hologramme in die Luft steigen lässt und alles Mögliche. Du kannst quasi, AR ist, glaube ich, das, was was an Technik am ehesten, an an Magie oder so was rankommt, wie Du dich wie Du dir selbst quasi Superkräfte verleihen kannst. Und lustigerweise, wir haben damals aber richtig low gestartet, also als wir mit detecht angefangen haben, da sind wir erst mal ins Face Filter Business eingestiegen. Also wir haben sie quasi für Instagram Snapchat. Snapchat. Genau und hatten dann aber auch tatsächlich so unseren ersten bisschen größeren Kunden, da haben wir dann Facefilter für Gustavo Gusto gemacht, also die Pizza Marke, ich weiß nicht. Ja. Und genau ja, so so haben wir dann quasi, so sind wir dann in das ganze AR Thema eingestiegen. Eigentlich kommen wir ja aus dem interaktiven Medienbereich, also wir haben Interaktiv Media Design studiert in Dieburg und grundsätzlich Das ist so in der Nähe von Darmstadt, für alle, die da draußen jetzt vielleicht nicht die Burg kennen. Ich kann das auch nicht. Ich hab's auch vermutlich irgendwo in Hessen. Ja. Genau irgendwo in Hessen, genau und Mixed Reality grundsätzlich oder interaktive Anwendungen, das muss gar nicht auch unbedingt mit 'ner Brille oder mit 'nem Handy zu tun haben. Also das kann zum Beispiel auch, wer noch die alten Playstation Games kennt, wo Du vor 'ner Kamera stehst und irgendwelche Scheiben putzt oder I Toy, ja. I Toy, oh grandios. Genau, das fällt da auch voll rein. Also es ist quasi nicht gar nicht mal nur unbedingt Smartphone oder Brillen bezogen. Mhm. Okay, so seid ihr also zu VR gekommen. Wie kommt VR zu euch? Also jetzt seid ihr ja eine Agentur und seid ihr auch auf irgendwie Auftragsarbeiten wahrscheinlich angewiesen so. Wie wie interessieren sich die Leute da draußen dafür? Also, ich mein, das meiste, was wir machen, wirklich dann so was Auftragsarbeiten angeht und dann VRMR ist einfach wirklich so Messekontext meistens. Also, die Sache halt immer noch heutzutage ist ja, wer hat eine VR Brille? Also ich mein, ihr kennt wahrscheinlich Leute, hier und da gibt's Leute, aber die meisten haben keine. True. So. Und das heißt, also und die meisten Leuten, wenn man denen eine VR Brille aufsetzt, ist es immer noch ihr erstes Mal, also auch auch heute noch. Das heißt für so Kontexte wie eine Messe, wo Du einfach, wo Besucher hinkommen können und dann eine Brille aufbekommen und dann sozusagen die Hardware schon gegeben ist, ist der perfekte Kontext und das holt die Leute natürlich auf 'nem anderen Level noch mal ab. Also, wenn man das jetzt zum Beispiel vergleicht mit 'ner Powerpoint Präsentation, also Du hast zwei D, Du hast einfach 'n paar Slides, hast 'n Perfects, das Ding zum Beispiel, das Auto, in drei D vor dir zu sehen, ist natürlich 'n ganz anderes Level. Mhm. Ja. Ist das was, wo ihr so aus UX Sicht son bisschen darauf achten müsstet, weil wenn ich mir jetzt son Produkt von euch wie Tinyfans angucke, ja, was ja für Leute gemacht ist, die zu Hause 'n eigenes Headset haben, Marke jetzt erst mal egal so, ja, aber die die kennen sich son bisschen in dem Space vielleicht schon aus und und wenn Du das auf der Messe das erste Mal aufbekommst, dann weißt Du ja wahrscheinlich so gar nichts darüber. Also Ja. Die Leute wissen, ich muss da 'n Controller benutzen, hab ich da eine Maus in der Hand, mach ich das mit Händen und und wenn ja, wie? Da musst Du ja wahrscheinlich eine eine sehr viel andere Anwendung gestalten, wenn Du's jetzt für den in Anführungszeichen Heimbedarf machst. Einhundert Prozent. Also es ist dann halt wirklich so, dass man versucht vielleicht auch Interaktionen son bisschen zu vermeiden fast schon oder die wirklich extrem primitiv zu halten und auch, dass man einfach guckt, dass es gleich losgeht. Also Tiny Fince startet ja zum Beispiel mit 'nem Tutorial, Du kriegst erst mal 'n Spiel beigebracht. Du willst einfach diesen Step willst Du vermeiden, Du ziehst die Brille auf und mehr oder weniger los geht's und Du bist einfach nur Zuschauer. Also bei einer Anwendung zum Beispiel, da haben wir halt auch 'n Moderator dabei, also es wär dann son Multiplayer sozusagen. Es laufen mehrere Leute drum rum und der Moderator führt die Leute dann da durch und die können dann hier und da mal was machen, aber halt nicht die ganze Zeit und vor allem auch nichts Komplexes, was jetzt irgendwie krasse Gesten erfordert oder sowas. War das dieses Partyspiel oder welches Spiel war das? Wie meinst Du? Ihr habt ja so son Partyspiel, glaube ich, hab ich auf eurer Webseite gesehen. War das das mit dem Moderator oder ist das was anderes? Nicht direkt, also also es AR Party war war quasi einen Showcase, den wir ganz am Anfang mal gestartet hatten. Da hatten wir unseren ersten fetten Auftrag, da hatten wir quasi lustigerweise, das war was für Honda, da haben wir auch gar nichts in Richtung AR gemacht, sondern es war es war es ging nur Prototyping und dann haben wir danach gesagt, komm, dann machen wir jetzt noch mal 'n geiles eigenes Ding, wir machen jetzt AR Party als Multiplayer, son bisschen Mario Party like Ja, man. Und haben dann aber da vier Monate reingesteckt und waren dann an 'nem Punkt, wo wir gesagt haben, dass das kostet uns jetzt noch mal mindestens vier Monate, das Release ready zu machen. Wir starten jetzt 'n Kickstarter und der ist leider 'n bisschen gefloppt und deswegen ist AR Party einen sehr geiler Showcase, der uns mitunter 'n paar richtig coole Kunden eingetragen hat und auch die Apple Vision Pro, da kommen wir vielleicht später noch mal zu und genau ja. Also ich muss sagen, es hat mich 'n bisschen betroffen gemacht, so. Ich hab nämlich in der Recherche für die Folgen natürlich auch so eure Webseite durchforstet und hab auch eher Party gefunden, stand da so, ah, Kickstarter, direkt auf Kickstarter, ja, da werfen wir 'n bisschen Geld hinterher, das sieht irgendwie ganz cool aus. Und dann hab ich's nicht mehr gefunden. No. Ja, das war vor vier Jahren oder so. Ja, ja. Also wir wollten fünfundzwanzigtausend, wir haben irgendwie tausendfünfhundert bekommen oder so. Ja, aber es war auch auch Mist. Es war auch wirklich nicht so 'n oh mein Gott, das ist jetzt unser Lebensprojekt, es war eher so, sollen wir weitermachen oder nicht, wir lassen Kickstarter entscheiden. Ja. So und am Ende war das Projekt trotzdem einfach so wertvoll. Okay, jetzt hat das mit dem Kickstarter vielleicht nicht gut funktioniert, aber ihr habt ja trotzdem dann mit Tiny Fins ein eigenes Produkt gemacht. Richtig, richtig. So, was war da anders? Das ist, also warum habt ihr das bei tinyfins so durchgezogen? Wieso hat es da funktioniert und wieso bei AR Party nicht? Gut, wir haben's bei tinyfins durchgezogen, weil wir das Dev Kit von der Vision Pro hatten. Ist ein legitimer Grund, ja, kann man ja sagen. Und der Scope natürlich. Also lustigerweise haben wir quasi, wir hatten erst vor AR Party zu machen für die Vision Pro. Stimmt. Und haben dann angefangen, Minigames zu prototypen für für AR Party, also quasi, Du hast immer eine Spielrunde würfeln und dann kommt Minispiel alle gegeneinander und dann geht's weiter und da haben wir halt, wir wollten halt nicht einfach die Minispiele recyceln, die wir schon hatten fürs Handy. Das war dann irgendwie uns 'n bisschen zu wack und deswegen haben wir dann gesagt, wir wollen was, was halt geil auf der Vision funktioniert mit Gestensteuerung und mit mit voll Immersive vielleicht auch und dann haben wir halt einfach angefangen wild zu prototypen und soll ich's noch mal herleiten, wie wir von AR Party quasi zu Tiny Fins gekommen sind, genau? Ja, warum nicht? Wir haben dann quasi how den Lukas geprototyped sozusagen und hatten dann quasi einfach 'n virtuellen Hammer an der Hand und haben halt dich rum sind Nägel im Raum erschienen, die Du in den Boden hauen konntest und uns ist aufgefallen, dass das einfach keinen Spaß macht, dass das nicht befriedigend ist, weil der Hammer hat keinen Widerstand und das Hand Tracking ist zwar sau gut, aber nicht so gut, dass der Hammer wirklich flüssig an deiner Hand klebt. Das heißt, wenn Du 'n schnellen Schlag gemacht hast, dann war der Hammer schon so also quasi ist sie son bisschen in der Luft hängen geblieben und dann nachgezogen und dann ist ist Seppi auf die geile Idee gekommen das Ganze son bisschen zu isen, sodass der Hammer hinter deiner Hand her schwebt quasi, also dass der interpoliert zwischen den zwischen den Punkten und das gab direkt son der Hammer schwebt so der Hand hinterher Gefühl und das war schon das war schon echt fett. Da haben sie son bisschen wie Thor gefühlt willst Du sagen. Ja, nee, eigentlich fast eher wie, wen nehm ich als Beispiel, wie Katara von Legend The Last Air Bänder. Oh. Quasi, es hatte son bisschen son wasserbändigen Vibe, genau, wo wir bei Tai Chi Tai Chi haben wir auch. Ja, definitiv. Bei Tai infiziert man das wieder. Ja, ja, auf jeden Fall. Ich bin nicht sehr unfähig dabei gefühlt beim Wasserbändigen, aber es hat sich da da dran angefühlt. Genau und dann haben wir gesagt, gut, was ist, wenn das jetzt kein Hammer ist, sondern was macht denn irgendwie Sinn? Was schwimmt denn irgendwie so in der Luft rum? Ja, 'n Fischschwarm wär vielleicht ganz cool und so ist dann quasi Tiny Finns entstanden. Und wir konnten es dann durchziehen, weil's einfach 'n viel kleineren Scoup hat als AR Party. Also es ist wirklich, weiß ich nicht, 'n Zwanzigstel. Aber wir hatten am Anfang auch wirklich debattiert, wird jetzt Tiny Fins, das hieß dann ja noch Tiny Fins nicht, wird es jetzt 'n Minispiel von AR Party oder machen wir 'n eigenes Ding draus? Und dann wars irgendwann so, ey, wir haben bis Ende Januar Zeit, da wird 'n eigenes Ding draus und das war die richtige Entscheidung. Ja. Spielt da auch sone Überlegung mit rein, dass natürlich Multiplayer Titel auf sone VR Plattform generell noch mal schwieriger sind? Also es ist ja schwierig genug, eine Person zu finden, die eine Brille hat und noch viel schwieriger zwei Personen zu finden, noch viel schwieriger zwei Personen, die im Zweifelsfall im selben Raum sind oder oder wie auch immer. Unmöglich. Na ja, also Aus auf Konferenzen. Wie viel VR Multiplayer hast Du denn schon gespielt, Dave? Und Du hast eine Brille? Null, aber ich leide auch super an Motion Sickness. Das ist so richtig problematisch. Mhm. Okay. Aber sieht immer lustig aus, wenn Leute das spielen. Ja, aber das ist auf jeden Fall mit reingeflossen in den Gedankengang. Und grade beim Release war's dann natürlich klar, dass der Release erst mal klein sein wird. War, würd ich sagen, aber nicht der Hauptgrund am Ende des Tages. Also, wir wollten halt auch einfach 'n geilen Showcase wieder draus machen oder irgendwas, was einfach an sich geil ist. Und ich find dann auch immer son bisschen, gut, das wär dann vielleicht für weniger Leute, aber für die, also es wär dann wahrscheinlich der einzige Multiplayer Titel gewesen beim Launch. Also es wär auch wieder anders interessant. Ja, ja, ja. Wobei wir gemerkt haben, wir waren zumindest beim Launch gab's praktisch, es gab superwenige andere Games und praktisch keine, die halt auch irgendwie die Brille ausgenutzt hatten. Also wirklich so dieses Ganze mit der Raumerkennung, wie die Hand getrackt wird, das alles. Also deswegen, wir hatten schon genug eigentlich Alleinstellungsmerkmale dann am Ende des Tages. Das war fast schon lächerlich. Also wir haben dann nach Release mal dreißig Apps runtergeladen, zu gucken, was macht die Konkurrenz und das wir waren wirklich, das war wirklich traurig teilweise. Also das ist inzwischen ganz anders, also inzwischen sind die gut nachgezogen, aber ganz am Anfang gab's echt fast keine guten Apps für die Vision Pro Und für uns gab's auch noch so einen magischen Moment. Wir waren dann nämlich, also Apple hat 'n Entwicklerstudio in München. Mhm. Da kann man sich anmelden, da kann man hinkommen und da sind auch da sind auch Geräte vor Ort. Und da haben wir dann quasi mal verschiedene Prototypen mitgenommen. Also wir hatten zum Beispiel gerade, wir hatten son paar Sachen auch für die für AR Party ge Prototyped, also Slinkshot zum Beispiel, also Du hast son eine Schnur spannt sich zwischen deinem Zeigefinger und Daumen und Du kannst quasi mit mit dem anderen Finger 'n Korken verschießen auf kleine Monster, die auf dich zufliegen und halt einfach nur diesen Prototypen, wo Du son Haufen fliegender kleiner Fische, die einfach deiner Hand gefolgt sind. Und das kam dann bei den Leuten von Apple so extrem gut an, dass wir dann ziemlich schnell die Leute mit dem Fish Game waren. Und das da wurden dann Kollegen hergeholt und ey guckt euch das mal an und keine Ahnung und das war für uns dann so ah okay, ich glaub wir haben da was was ganz Cooles. War das eigentlich quasi auch eure Eintrittskarte, warum ihr dieses Dev Kit bekommen habt oder hattet ihr das schon vorher? Also wie war eigentlich son bisschen son Schritt zurück? Wie kam's überhaupt zu dieser Kooperation mit Apple und dass ihr quasi auch die Apple Vision Pro vorher hattet? Also man konnte sich da drauf bewerben, einfach online, hat da praktisch son Formular ausgefüllt, aber was wir da dann vorgestellt hatten, war eher Party sozusagen. Okay, ja. Und ich vermute, also beziehungsweise wir haben dann ja auch mit den Leuten geredet so am Ende des Tages, gab son paar Gründe, warum das geklappt hat, würde ich sagen. Also der eine ist, ich glaub, es war in dem Fall gut, im Game zu sein, weil also die Apple Vision Pro hat sich schon verkauft und auch immer noch ist son, ja, es ist son Businesstools, son Homeoffice Ding. Und ich glaub, viele, die sich da beworben haben, waren eben dann einfach irgendwelche Apps und so weiter. Ja. Und das hat dann natürlich geholfen, die wollten eine Palette abdecken, die wollen einfach wie 'n Computer, das sollte es soll Entertainment, Gaming, da soll alles dabei sein, deswegen war das 'n Vorteil. Mhm. Das andere war, glaube ich, wirklich einfach, wer aufmerksam die Keynote geguckt hat, hat festgestellt, was will denn Apple promoten, was ist denen wichtig an diesem Gerät? Und das haben wir halt einfach hervorgehoben und gezeigt so, wir verstehen, was eure Vision davon ist und ja, ich glaub, das hat auch noch geholfen. Mhm. Okay, wenn wir vielleicht mal zwei, drei Schritte zurück machen davon, wir haben ja eingangs gesagt, wir machen ja auch Spiele, aber wir machen sehr viel andere Spiele. So, unsere Spiele sind, ich wollt grad sagen flach, aber das klingt so bisschen abwertend, unsere Spiele sind zweidimensional. Ja, ja, ja. So kann man's, glaube ich, sagen, ja. Und ich hätte jetzt, ich hab auch nicht den technischen Hintergrund dafür, aber wenn mir jetzt jemand sagen würde, Jan, mach doch mal son Prototyp für sone VR App. Ich hätte keine Ahnung, wo ich anfangen muss. Ja. So, wo fange ich denn an? Also man sollte wahrscheinlich, wenn man keine Ahnung hat, in 'ner Game Engine starten, so generell. Weil eine Game Engine bietet einem praktisch direkt 'n Platz, wo Du irgendwie, Du kannst Objekte reinziehen, zum Beispiel 'n Würfel und der wird irgendwie dargestellt. Und da ist am Ende des Tages bei den meisten Plattformen dann fast sogar son bisschen egal, ob das jetzt einfach auf deinem Screen ist oder in VR, weil ja die drei-d-Informationen schon da ist. Ja, wir machen die meiste Arbeit mit Unity. Ich würd sagen, im Game Engine Bereich gibt's drei große Player, Unreal, Godot, Unreal. Unreal ist der, da gehst Du hin, wenn Du High End Grafik willst, PS5, Xbox, krasse PCs, die haben das beste Lightning und so weiter. Unit ist vor allem eigentlich so im Mobile Game Bereich ziemlich groß und diese ganze Schiene auch a a wie a und Gedo ist halt jetzt grad noch son bisschen so dieser Indie Game Player Open Source, also eigentlich auch superspannend. Ich hoffe, da da wird noch mehr draus, weil eigentlich Open Source halt eigentlich supercool ist. Mhm. Aber bis jetzt, wenn man guckt, was da rausgekommen ist, vor allem viele, ja, viel 2D Kram, viele Computerspieltitel, nicht so, nicht viel auf anderen Plattformen. Mhm. Und ist es dann wirklich so, dass wenn ich jetzt, okay, ich starte in, dass es sich von klassischem, ne, Development für so normale Screens dann kaum unterscheidet, weil er der einzige Unterschied in Anführungszeichen das Kameraplacement ist, was Du vielleicht, ne, bei 'nem klassischen Titel son bisschen starrer hast und jetzt bist Du die Kamera? Nee, würde ich nicht sagen. Also die Engine, in der Du arbeitest, bestimmt halt schon viel wie der komplette Workflow auch ist. Also wenn, typischerweise finde ich, wenn Du jetzt 'n Webprojekt hast zum Beispiel, dann hast Du einfach deinen Coedeitor, dann machst Du irgendwie MPM run build oder irgendwas und dann geht's los, dann dann öffnet sich was. Inunity ist so, Du könntest komplette Games bauen, ohne 'n Coedeitor überhaupt aufzuhaben, theoretisch. Also die bieten auch, also allein durch Animationen, die Du machen kannst. Du kannst Timelines bauen, das ist dann praktisch wie in sonem Videoschnittprogramm. Du kannst auch Visual Scripting machen. Die der Unit Editor bietet schon oder ist einfach sone Riesenplattform für sich. Also wir machen natürlich viel mit Skripte, also man kann sich vorstellen, man hat da eine Szene und in diesen Szenen sind game Objekts. Also klassischerweise wär das zum Beispiel der Player, der läuft rum, dann gibt's irgendwelche Gegner, die laufen rum. Es gibt zum Beispiel Kisten, die können zerschlagen werden. Das sind alles einzelne Objekts und auf denen sind dann Skripte drauf, die dann das Verhalten bestimmen. Und wie wichtig ist da die Plattform selbst tatsächlich? Weil wenn ich jetzt klassisches Game Development mach, ja, und ich zieh jetzt auf Smartphones zum Beispiel ab, dann ist er für mich in der Entwicklung in Anführungszeichen relativ egal, Dave kann da gerne reinspringen, wenn ich was Falsches sag, relativ egal, ob das am Ende auf 'nem iOS oder auf 'nem Android Gerät läuft, so, ja. Oder wenn ich jetzt auf 'nem für 'n Desktop Rechner irgendwie konzeptioniere, dann ist es am Ende auch egal, ob das irgendwie 'n Rechner von von diesem Jahr oder vom letzten Jahr, ne, sagen es nicht so super anspruchsvoll ist irgendwie von von Titel her, aber jetzt sind ja, gerade weil diese Plattformen vielleicht auch noch so relativ jung sind, sind sie auch noch son bisschen sehr unterschiedlich, ja? Ich guck mir eine Meta Quest zwei an, da gibt's nur ganz schlechtes, ja. Ich guck mir eine Apple Vision Pro an, die hat keine Controller, die macht man irgendwie nur mit Händen. Ich versuch dann mit Händen irgendwie an der Meta Quest drei was zu machen, das irgendwie nicht ganz so geil, ja. Wie wie sehr limitiert das einen so im Entwicklungsalltag oder wie sehr muss man sich dieser Plattformunterschiede bewusst sein? Genau, also es ist, würde ich schon sagen, sehr unterschiedlich, weil jetzt zum Beispiel, wenn Du einfach 'n klassisches Game machst, sagen wir mal kurz, nicht VR oder so was und Du dann kannst Du's deployen aufm Computer, aufm Mac, aufm Handy und es wird wahrscheinlich laufen. Also dann musst Du natürlich den Input irgendwie anpassen, bei dem einen hast Du Touchscreen, bei dem anderen vielleicht Controller, bei dem anderen Maustaste, aber das wird mehr oder weniger laufen. Was man dann natürlich gucken muss, ist gerade bei Games, irgendwann bei großen Games wird man optimieren müssen und da hat natürlich 'n Handy eine ganz andere Anforderung wie eine Konsole. Wenn wir jetzt auf VR gehen, also jetzt zum Beispiel normales Computerspiel auf VR supporten, ist es noch mal 'n Level krasser einfach. Also da wird wahrscheinlich auch, Du kannst einfach die VR Kamera schon, also die VR Brille als Kamera betrachten, die dann da durchgeht, das funktioniert schon. Aber jetzt zum Beispiel die Metaquest bringt son ganz anderes Bündel an mit als jetzt die Vision pro. Aber jetzt so ganz konkret, wir haben von der Vision pro, wir haben's nur für die Vision pro entwickelt, auf die Metaquest geportet innerhalb von drei Tagen. Also Okay. Es ist schon, es geht schon auch gut. Also man kann achtzig, neunzig Prozent behalten. Also da ist, das ist für mich eine der absoluten Hauptstärken von Unity halt wirklich, Du entwickelst in dieser einen Plattform und kannst es mehr oder weniger auf fast alles, was es gibt deployen, also sogar auch Web Web G l. Mhm. Also Korrigier mich, wenn ich da falschlieg, aber also ich hatte meine meine Masterarbeit auch in diesem Themenbereich damals gemacht, war sone Mixed Reality Anwendung auf der Hololens. Und da hatte ich irgendwie im Kopf, es gab diese Plug ins, die glaube ich hatte Open XR oder so war das. Ja. Also irgendwie so diese AR Foundation, die irgendwie so ganz viele Sachen schon mit sich mitbringen, Also irgendwie Tracking von deinem Device, was für Gestensteuerung und Du so hast, Voice Commands. Das hilft euch wahrscheinlich dabei massiv auch aus, oder das dann verschiedene Schnittstellen quasi zu bedienen auf unterschiedlichen Genau, genau. Ja, also jetzt ganz konkret zum Beispiel, wenn wir jetzt im Mobile Bereich sind, also Mobile AR, es gibt diese AR Foundation, wie Du gesagt hast. Mhm. Und das wird dann, es gibt auf Google gibt's AR Core, auf Apple gibt's AR Kit und dieses AR Foundation ist der Rapper halt sozusagen drum rum. Genau. Man merkt dann aber halt schon trotzdem konkret die Unterschiede. Also ein Ding, wo wir immer wieder reinlaufen, was uns auch echt krass frustriert ist auf Apple, das Image Tracking. Das ist, ich, das ist bewusst von denen limitiert, so dass es furchtbar ist. Also, man kann sich vorstellen, wenn ich jetzt hier 'n Marke, also es kann irgendein Bild sein aufm Tisch und ich möchte mit meinem Smartphone tracken, das wird es nur einmal pro Sekunde aktualisieren auf iOS jetzt. Das ist einfach so eingestellt. Wiederum ist so das das Plaintracking, also ich will einfach irgend 'n Objekte im Raum platzieren, unabhängig von 'nem Marker, ist auf iOS besser. Mhm. Und das sind dann schon so Sachen, also das verändert jetzt nicht konkret sozusagen, wie Du damit entwickelst. Du behandelst iOS und Android dann meistens gleich, aber das Ergebnis kann schon drastisch unterschiedlich sein, ja. Und grade, was Du machen willst, also es ist schon eine Designentscheidung von Apple, weil das würde, also technisch wär das total easy. Also Du willst ja eigentlich, wenn Du 'n Image Marker hast, dann willst Du eigentlich den rumwedeln und Du willst, dass das drei-d-Objekt an diese Marker klebt. Das ist ja dieser magische Effekt quasi und wenn Du aber quasi immer die Hand bewegst und das Ding ruckelt dann so hinterher, das ist dann, ich weiß nicht genau, warum das jetzt so gemacht wird, aber genau. Das ist vielleicht einfach da auch teilweise eine Designentscheidung von der Plattform, weil man halt sagen wird, okay, dieses dieses Cluster, was so, ich sag mal, ganz frühes a a ja schon war, ja, das wollen wir vielleicht einfach gar nicht und wir quasi diesen Use Case, indem wir ihn gar nicht performant ermöglichen? Ich glaub genau, das ist es. Ja. Ja. Leider. Nicht, dass die Leute hier mit QR Codes in der Gegend rumwedeln und dann irgendwie Sachen damit platzieren, das wollen wir nicht, sondern wir wollen das halt noch viel mehr immersive sozusagen haben und überlegt euch halt was cooles Neues dafür. Ja. Ja. Mhm. Wobei wir einfach festgestellt haben, das ist irgendwie so dieses lustige. Also Du hast komplett recht, so dieses AR Marker basiert ist halt in dem Sinne Old School, aber das ist oft halt viel magischer trotzdem noch. Also stell dir vor dieser klassic Use Case, der irgendwann existieren wird, Du hast halt irgendwie dein Handy oder deine deine Brille und bist im Supermarkt und jede Verpackung kann ihr eigenes Portal sein, wo irgendwas drin passiert oder Du kriegst Infos da. Viel zu spießig, stell dir doch mal vor, Du spielst so Magic oder Pokémon oder so Trading Card. Ja, ich bin im Supermarkt. Ich bin im Supermarkt. Du hast diesen Fisch vor dir und auf einmal stehen da halt deine Viecher so rum. Ja. Und wenn Du so eine Karte spielst, betteln die sich halt auch wirklich. Ja, Jogio, ist klasse. Hat hattet ihr das aber nicht sogar mit mit mit dieser Supermarktidee? Irgendwas diese Milchverpackung hatte ich im Kopf von eurer Website, oder? Wo Du dann die Milch irgendwie angeschaut hast und dann hast Du die Zusammensetzung irgendwie ballaststoffreich, Protein bla bla bla und so was. Wir haben denen das gepitcht. Wir haben's am Ende nicht gemacht, es war 'n Prototyp, aber ja, genau. Und den Prototyp fanden die auch nicht gut. Doch, den fanden die gut, aber irgendwie hatten da war, das war für Fly damals und das ist, also es war so der nächste Step in unserer AR Entwicklung, könnte man sagen, also Face Filter und dann haben wir gedacht, na gut, was ist denn ein praktischer Use Case, den den auch Companys geil finden, ah okay, AR Marketing. Mhm. Genau und da haben wir dann angefangen, allen möglichen Marken, die wir interessant fanden, Ideen zu pitchen und das war eine davon an Fly damals, die sind da noch gerade frisch aufm Markt gewesen und hatten echt gar kein Budget. Ja. Genau. Und dazu kommt natürlich auch, dass im Einzelhandel Package Design halt auch nicht alle zwei Wochen angepasst und neu gemacht wird. True. True, True, True. Also ich glaub, da war wirklich, und das ist auch immer noch so die größte Hürde, ist einfach dieses, wie kommst Du denn bis zu dem Schritt, wo die AR Experience eigentlich losgeht? Weil die Sache wär dann, okay, ich hab jetzt mein Handy, gut, das hat jeder dabei, das ist schon mal 'n guter Schritt, aber dann, ich hol's raus, öffne die Kamera, scan QR Code, lande dann in auf der Webseite oder in Instagram oder so was und halte es dann auf die Verpackung. Das sind so viele Steps. Nicht komplett. Ja. Genau, das ist dann eher so, die Idee funktioniert dann, wenn wir alle AR Brillen aufhaben. Aber das war's vielleicht 'n guter Hook, mal über Web XR zu sprechen. Mhm. Weil das ist, ist das nicht genau das Versprechen dahinter zu sagen, Du kannst so diese AR oder VR Experience auch in deinem Browser laufen lassen und brauchst keine spezielle App oder irgendwas zu installieren, sondern das geht halt einfach los, so wie heutzutage halt auch 'n Video einfach losgehen kann auf deiner Webseite. Ja, ja, nee, das ist auf jeden Fall richtig. Wir haben kein richtiges Web AR Projekt jemals gemacht, aber jedes Mal, also wir sind schon ganz oft davor, weil es jedes Mal so ist, das löst ja genau dieses Problem. So, hey, man kann einfach loslegen. Und dann dann beginnt's jedes Mal von neuem, okay, dann recherchieren wir mal, was aktuell da so geht. Und dann kommt man immer wieder zum Punkt, ah, es gibt dieses Framework, das nennt sie die Aith Wall, das wurd von Lyantic auch gekauft, also die, die Pokémon Go gemacht haben und das ist the way to go. Das ist wirklich das Beste, das heißt, damit hast Du supergutes Tracking und so weiter und dann guckst Du auf den Preis und dann ist es irgendwie, boah, ich will nichts falsches sagen, dreitausend Euro im Monat oder so was. Absolut. Und dann ist halt so, ja, dann ist die Option wieder raus. Ja. Und viele von den anderen Frameworks sind wirklich dann so, das Tracking ist schlecht, die Performance ist schlecht, also so so richtig so Fehler oder Probleme, wo Du merkst, ah, das steckt einfach noch in den Kinderschuhen. Aber das heißt, das sind so Sachen, die man sich tatsächlich selber noch angucken muss. Ich hätte jetzt erwartet, aber ich hab ja keine Ahnung, ne, ich würde ganz naiv rangehen, sagen okay, wenn ich dieses WebXR benutze, dann sind das ja genau die Sachen, die für mich gelöst sind, so dieses Tracking und Verhalten im Raum und sowas, aber das muss ich alles noch Ich glaube, es ist gelöst für VR. Also das beobachte ich aber nur so von der Seitenlinie, das haben wir nicht selbst entwickelt, aber es gibt VR Web Apps, die funktionieren gut. Okay. So, ich glaub auch, weil das son bisschen einfacher ist, also dieses ganze Tracking hinzukriegen, performant im Browser, also ist dann son Slam Algorithmus, der ja erkennen muss, wie Du Du dein Handy in der Umgebung bewegst, ist superschwierig und wird am Ende nur gescheit funktionieren, wenn halt die Hardware Hersteller, wenn Apple, wenn Google das wirklich da da unterstützt und die, ja, kochen eigentlich son bisschen ihre eigene Suppe. Also eigene Möglichkeit, die son bisschen mehr am kommen, ist App Clips. Also wenn euch das was sagt, ist praktisch, man kann eine App im App Store releasen, aber wer will eine komplette App runterladen? Das ist immer relativ groß und so weiter. App Clips sind sozusagen, die kannst Du, da klickst Du aufn Link im Browser und es öffnet eine kleine Version der App direkt sozusagen. Mhm. Du kannst dann noch die volle Version runterladen später, aber es ist relativ sieben, das ist klick, klick, Du bist in 'ner richtigen App, hast native Performance und so weiter und das ist son bisschen, ich würd sagen, aktuell der interessanteste Approach, wenn man versucht, also es ist nicht wirklich Web a a dann, aber es das ist the way, ja. Okay, vielleicht noch mal zurückzukommen zu der Entwicklung. Da hast Du ja gesagt, okay, ihr macht da vier Millionenity und dementsprechend ähnlich ist es vielleicht auch zu Clusterer Entwicklungsarbeit, ja? Ja. Aber wie unterscheidet es sich denn so später im Zyklus, wenn ich jetzt an sowas wie QA und Debugging und sowas denke, ja? Also als ich das erste Mal Division Pro aufhatte, habe ich ganz viel Zeit in zum Beispiel den den Immersive Videos von Apple verbracht, ja, und hab so festgestellt, die kannst Du eigentlich beliebig oft gucken, weil Du immer was Neues entdeckst, weil dadurch, dass es halt son großes Sichtfeld hat und Du mal hier irgendwas gucken kannst und mal da was gucken kannst, kriegst Du halt nicht alles beim ersten Durchlauf sozusagen mit, ja? Ja. Und ich würde mir vorstellen, dass es bei Spielen oder Anwendungen ja auch ähnlich sein kann, ja, wenn Tiny Fins jetzt rund dich herum entsteht, Ja. Dann ist es ja auch wahrscheinlich 'n bisschen aufwendiger, schwieriger, also im internen Testing alles auch mal anzugucken oder dann nach drei Durchläufe zu sagen, ah, da hinten diese Koralle, die steht irgendwie aufm Kopf, das ist mir gar nicht aufgefallen, weil ich hab die ganze Zeit in die andere Richtung geguckt, so, ja. Wie, was gibt's da noch so für Unterschiede oder was macht das vielleicht schwieriger oder anspruchsvoller? Also, ja, es ist schlimm. Also, es ist teilweise wirklich so, also man hat so diese neuen Ein Gefühl fürs Einschalten, das war die Ja, ja, ja. Also, das ist so, man denkt so, das hat alles magisch, das wird der Spaß des Lebens, aber dann ist halt eigentlich so, Du merkst es genau eigentlich, wie Du sagst und dann das Ding ist halt, ah, okay, Du hast die dann auf, Du entdeckst den Fehler, dann fix Du den Fehler und dann ist es halt wieder, okay, bilden, auf die Brille spielen, das ist 'n Prozess von zwei, drei Minuten. Mhm. Das ist halt so ätzend jedes Mal. Also, wir versuchen natürlich das meiste im Editor sozusagen zu testen, aber das geht natürlich auch nur bis zum gewissen Grad. Also ich kann jetzt, ich kann schlecht im Editor testen wie wenn ich Fische durch meinen Raum schwimmen lasse, so weit kann der Editor das dann halt nicht simulieren. Also, wir hatten's dann so, dass man, wir haben in im Editor eine drei-d-Szene, wo wir 'n Raum hatten, wo wir dann eine eine drei-d-Ku hatten, wo der die den Fischen gefolgt ist sozusagen, nee, die Fische sind in der Kugel gefolgt. Und das hilft natürlich, so ganz offensichtliche Bugs zu fixen, aber ja, Du musstest dann doch immer wieder diesen Zyklus machen und das wird ätzend. Also was dabei hilft auf jeden Fall so Sachen, also klar, Du entdeckst unendlich neue Sachen dich rum und so könntest Du, glaube ich, auch unendlich neue Bugs finden oder Fehler. Was was dabei krass hilft, sind Prefabs, also quasi, dass Du in wie so wie so einzelne Pakete, so Vorlagen quasi vorbereitest und die dann auch immer gezielt bearbeitest. Also ist quasi, Du Du hast alles vorher mal durchgeguckt bevor Sport und dann geht's eigentlich nur dadurch drum noch, also Du hast natürlich dann 'n ganzen Raum, der erfasst wird und dann geht's noch darum halt, was heißt nur noch, aber auch darum einfach zu gucken, dass die Prefabs nicht ineinander spawnen, also nicht ineinander erscheinen und dass da alles schön verteilt ist und sowas, aber dass dann noch selbst Fehler in den drei D Modellen oder in diesen kleinen Unterteilen sind, die die sind dann schnell gefunden. Aber ich stell es mir auch schwierig vor, Edge Cases abzudecken, so, ja, also als jetzt, ich glaub, als ich Fruide Ninja gespielt hab das erste Mal so drei D, die machen das ja auch super cool, also sie machen son richtig schönes Plain Mapping von von dem Space dich rum und wenn Du dann so Obst zerhackst und da irgendwie die Spritzer fliegen, dann bleibt das wirklich so an der Stelle im Raum kleben, wo da im echten Raum auch irgendwie was ist. Und das hat stellenweise sehr gut funktioniert und stellenweise sehr schlecht. Mhm. So, und das stelle ich mir natürlich auch zu Debacken Hölle vor, weil Du musst ja für unterschiedliche Use Cases auch einfach unterschiedliche Räume haben, ne. Du musst, wenn Du es testen willst, Du brauchst mal 'n Tisch oder 'n Sofa, also unterschiedliche Formen und Gegebenheiten auch einfach in deinem physischen Raum, das irgendwie alles zu testen oder bei bei Tiny Fans, weiß nicht, wenn ihr verhindern wollt, dass die Fische durch die halbe Möbellandschaft irgendwie schwimmen, ja, dann müssen ja Möbel da sein zum Testen, so salopp gesagt, ja. Genau, ja, das stimmt schon, aber ich finde, zum gewissen Grad ist man dann auch einfach irgendwann so halt, verlassen uns auf die Plattform, so. Wenn die Plattform halbwegs den Raum richtig erkennt, dann versucht man auch das Problem simpler zu machen. Also in Tiny find's zum Beispiel, die Brille ja, die kann Möbel erkennen, die kann sozusagen deinen ganzen Raum zu 'nem Mesh machen, aber wir betrachten eigentlich einfach nur die Bodenplänen Und dann das Problem ist dann viel leichteres und das wird dann wahrscheinlich überall irgendwie funktionieren. Wir haben auch tatsächlich, also wir haben festgestellt, 'n Office eignet sich ganz gut dazu, VR oder mRNA Experience zu zu testen, weil Du hast da eigentlich alles. Also wir haben wir einen großen Tisch im Office stehen, wir haben die wir haben die Stühle, wir haben höhenverstellbare Tische, wir haben verschiedene Arten von Wänden, Dachbalken, da ist eigentlich da ist eigentlich das meiste, was Du in 'nem Wohnzimmer auch hast, son bisschen abgedeckt und wir haben dann aber auch einfach, also wir haben 'n paar Sachen gemacht, also es ging ja auch am Anfang son bisschen darum, so Accessibility und Leute, die noch nie eine Brille auf hatten. Wir haben zum Beispiel, Division Pro macht viel mit Eye Tracking, weil die hat keine Controller. Und Du kannst dann quasi das Interface einfach angucken und dann tappen mit deinen Fingern, ums auszuwählen. Und wir haben uns bewusst dafür entschieden, dass Du für Tiny Finns kein Eye Tracking brauchst, also dass man quasi die Brille einfach aufziehen kann und es geht los, man muss es nicht einstellen. Und so war auch 'n Learning bei uns im Office. Wir haben am Anfang alles erkannt, weil es ist natürlich schon magisch, da steht 'n Stuhl und prallen die Fische von dem Stuhl ab, das ist natürlich schon geil. Oder vom Dachbalken. Aber wenn Du quasi, also es geht ja darum, die Fische vor 'nem Hai zu beschützen mitunter und wenn Du das zehnte Mal an diesem Dachbalken hängen geblieben bist, während Du vor diesem Hai wegrennst, entscheidest Du dich dann dafür einfach zu sagen, wir tracken nur noch die horizontalen Flächen, dass Du nicht mehr durch den Boden schwimmen kannst, aber auch son bisschen, wenn Du die Wände ignorierst, ist es auch egal, wie groß der Raum von, also dann können auch Leute in 'nem kleinen Raum spielen und haben quasi son bisschen mehr mehr mehr mehr zur Verfügung, ja. Ist natürlich dann auch sone son bisschen Abwägen ne von wie immer sie viel zu machen und wie soll's vom Gamedesign halt sein, dass es auch irgendwie weiterhin noch Spaß macht. Ja, genau. Das war ich immer sehr spannend. Was was ich interessant wollte, weil das habt ihr jetzt paar Mal gesagt, natürlich haben ja diese verschiedenen Headmounterd Displays, ne, sei es jetzt die Apple Vision Pro, die Metaquest, potenziell auch so was wie die Playstation VR Brille. Die haben ja unterschiedliche Steuerung, ne. Die Apple Vision Pro, wie ihr gesagt habt, hat zum Beispiel kein haptisches Feedback, die hatte ja gar keine Controller, muss aber ohne da auskommen. Wie sehr konzentriert ihr euch in Entwicklung, alle Plattformen gleichzeitig? Macht ihr erst mal auf eine eine Plattform und adaptiert das dann in Zukunft für die anderen oder habt ihr direkt irgendwie alles im Blick, was man da machen könnte? Na ja, also wenn's jetzt VR geht, haben wir's bis jetzt immer so gemacht, dass es dann für eine Plattform war. Aber das liegt auch einfach daran, bei tinyfin ja gut, klar, das war 'n Vision Pro Projekt und jetzt, wenn's kundenseitig irgendwas ist, dann bestimmst Du ja die Hardware und dann nimmst Du das, was Du denkst, funktioniert am besten. Vielleicht will der Kunde es dann später adaptieren, aber ja. Mhm. Ich Ich glaube, das ist aber jetzt in dem Sinne nicht klassisch. Also wenn Du jetzt wirklich einfach son Game Studio bist, okay, wir wollen jetzt 'n neuen VR Titel rausbringen, dann überlegst Du natürlich, dass Du es irgendwie auf möglichst vielen Plattformen machen kannst. Genau, aber zum Beispiel jetzt mal, zum Beispiel wir haben für PE 'n Ding gemacht, das war auch eine Messe und die wollen da AR darstellen, die haben die wir machen so Lasercutter und so was und das ist zu gefährlich, das physisch darzustellen und deswegen haben wir mit Image Trackern quasi holografisch die Laserkutter und den Laser und so dargestellt und da ist dann auch so, ja okay, 'n Smartphone ist 'n bisschen zu klein für die Messe, die Brillen waren damals noch nicht draußen oder zumindest noch nicht auf dem Level Und dann nehmen wir einfach 'n Tablet natürlich, wir nehmen 'nem größeren Display. Was ist das Tablet, was aktuell das beste AR macht? Das ist das iPad Pro, also schlagen wir 'n iPad Pro vor logischerweise. So ungefähr ist dann der Gedankengang. Ja. Mhm. Jetzt hast Du gesagt oder oder Dave hast Du heute gesagt, wenn Du 'n Spiel machst, willst Du ja irgendwie alle Plattformen abdecken. Und ich guck so diesen diesen Markt an, ohne da viel Einsicht reinzuhaben und ich frag mich so, ist das wirklich so? Weil dadurch, dass ja, also weder die Vision Pro noch die Meta Quest jetzt irgendwie eine riesige Install Base haben, ja, stell ich mal die ketzerische Frage, ob sich vielleicht nicht mehr lohnt, irgendwie mit einer von diesen Plattformen sonen Exklusivity Deal zu machen und dafür auf die andere vielleicht erst mal zu verzichten, weil das Add on von der zweiten oder dritten Plattform halt so inkrementell klein ist, dass sich vielleicht der andere Deal mehr lohnen kann, ja. Also ich glaube, wenn Du jetzt einfach 'n VR Game rausbringen willst, dann geh auf die Meta Quest und ignorier erst mal die Apple Vision Pro. Okay. So, das und das machen Weil die Weil die geilste ist? Ja. Okay. Richtig. Und auch die Zielgruppe. Also das ist halt wirklich, die Meta Quest kaufen Leute, die wollen spielen. Ja, hab ich auch so gemacht. Genau, that's it und die Apple Vision Pro wird von Leuten gekauft, die finden's auch spannend, hey, ich will diesen Virtual Display von meinem Mac haben und ich will damit arbeiten und ja. Aber ist lustig, dass Du es ansprichst, weil wir haben tatsächlich, also es gibt von Apple Apple Arcade, das ist quasi die machen die machen die Games über die Apps und das gibt's natürlich auch für die Vision Pro und wir haben auch schon gemerkt, also wir haben versucht mit Tiny Fins da irgendwie reinzukommen und es hat genau, es hat nicht geklappt, aber es macht natürlich Sinn son exklusiv Deal zu machen, wenn man die Möglichkeit hat. Ja. Okay. Habt ihr das Gefühl, dass dieses VR Ökosystem für Spiele son gesünderen Price Point hat? Mein Eindruck ist nämlich, wenn ich gerade so die Mobile Gaming Landschaft angucke, also Smartphon Mobile Gaming, so wie wir herkommen, dass da natürlich schon son gewisses Race to the Bottom irgendwie stattgefunden hat. Das ist schon vorbei, ja, da ist auch viel mit Werbefinanzierung und sowas gelaufen und wenn man sich so im Metaquest Store umguckt oder auf der Vision Pro irgendwie umguckt, dann findest Du halt Spiele, die bepreist sind für fünf, zehn, fünfzehn, zwanzig teilweise auch im Metaquest irgendwie dreißig, vierzig Euro Bereich ja so unterwegs, was eigentlich viel gesünder klingt erst mal so, ja, auch für Publisher. Oder erwartet ihr dann, dass wenn diese Plattformen irgendwie größer werden, dass diese Preise auch genauso hart nach unten korrigieren, wie das damals bei Smartphones stattgefunden hat. Weil wer sich erinnert, als son iPhone mal neu war und der App Store neu war, da haben Spieler auch am Anfang mal zehn Euro gekostet und so, ne? Genau, aber man muss sagen ja, ich find's sehr vergleichbar mit PC. Also auf bei VR Brillen, also die Games sind, genau, die haben meistens 'n Preis, die haben selten bis wenige Inderpurchices und ich glaub, ich hab noch nie Werbung jetzt in 'nem VR Game direkt gesehen. Und wenn Du jetzt bei PC, bei Steam guckst, würde ich sagen, ist das ähnlich. Also ja, Du hast hier und da Inderpurchices und Du also Expansions Add ons und so was, aber ich würd das mal noch so als sehr gesunde Sachen bezeichnen. Also ist jetzt nicht irgendwie toxisch in irgend 'nem Sinne. Noch. Noch, ja. Ich frag mich son bisschen, ich weiß nicht, woran's liegt, aber so, ich könnte mir vorstellen, dass dass es durch die durch die Einstiegshürde kommt. Also 'n Smartphone hat einfach inzwischen jeder, so, das gehört zum Grundrepertoire. Eine VR Brille ist einfach immer noch son son Premium, bei dem vielleicht dann auch sone gewisse Erwartungshaltung ist, dass ich da jetzt auch, ich bin bereit, jetzt auch zu investieren. Dann, ich kauf mir eine Meta Quest für fünfhundert Euro, ja klar kaufe ich dann auch 'n Spiel für zehn, zwanzig. Beim Smartphone ist es vielleicht eher, ja, ich hab Smartphone und, aber ich weiß nicht genau, woher dieses gekommen ist. Also Ich meine, es ist, glaube ich, auch son bisschen dem Medium geschuldet. Also bei 'nem Smartphone hast Du eine Internet Connection und Du hast quasi dem Browser nur ein ein Klickway sozusagen und da dann quasi mal schnell in PayPal reinzugehen oder irgendwas zu verknüpfen und dann in App Purchase zu machen, ist quasi, das ist quasi schon der Flow ist natürlich in Smartphone integriert und bei 'ner VR Brille ist das, würde ich sagen, noch nicht so. Also da ist es schon auch teilweise, also klar, Du willst dich irgendwie, also es ist schon mega umständlich, dich überhaupt mit dem WLAN zu verbinden und irgendwie die VR Tastatur, aber klar Du bist dann früher oder später verbunden, aber es ist der der Flow ist ist einfach nicht so geil wie aufm Smartphone für sowas. Gut, aber da können sich das ja noch hinentwickeln. Also iris Check oder so, der mit deinem Konto verbunden ist, zack wird's direkt bestätigt. Ja. Ist ja alles denkbar. Ehrlicherweise, genauso ist es ja auf der Vision Pro. Ist es auf der Vision Pro. Ja, wenn Du was einkaufst oder hast, wie heißt das Vision Optic ID aktiviert sowie Face- oder Touch ID aufm Smartphone, dann grinst Du kurz in deine Brille und dann ist dein Kauf bestätigt. Hab ich das gerade gekauft, ich hab nämlich grad Tinyfans gekauft. Aber Du musst das, Du musst das halt einmalig einrichten, so wie Touch ID und sowas halt. Okay, stimmt, ich glaub ich hab mal 'n Passwort eingegeben. Ich weiß das gar nicht mehr, ich bin so vergesslich. Krass, ich hab ich glaub mein Passwort eingegeben. Schön. Ich ich würd gern noch mal über eine eine sehr wichtige Sache sprechen für mich. Okay. Weil weil ich ja auch dieses Thema VR, AR und so generell sehr mag. Und das habt ihr auch schon häufiger erwähnt jetzt während der Aufnahme. Und zwar habt ihr von sonem magischen Effekt gesprochen oder ich hab mir auch die auch noch von anbau designen Design angeschaut, da stand auf 'ner Folie irgendwo Hype Magie. Mhm. Und und es es muss sich einfach gut anfühlen. Und ich find, das sind so zwei Begriffe, die man auf jeden Fall nennen muss, Immersion und diesen von, oh. Das musst Du jetzt aber auch erst mal erklären, was das für alle da draußen, die jetzt Aber ist jetzt den Namen von dem Mihai. Ja. Oder so. Ja, ja. Ja, genau, genau. Also genau. Das das können die Gäste ja übernehmen. Also dass dass wir vielleicht diese Begriffe, Immersion, Flow State vielleicht mal einordnen und grad auch so Sachen, über die ihr auch gesprochen habt, wie Accessibility, vielleicht auch Optimierung bei der Entwicklung. Wie wichtig ist es halt für euch insgesamt? Wie sehr denkt ihr ganze Zeit dran? Was sind so eure Marker dafür, dass das alles umgesetzt wird, damit am Ende halt genau dieses Feeling entsteht? Also grundsätzlich Immersion ist ja son bisschen, also je nachdem, ob wir jetzt im VR oder im AR Bereich sind, aber jetzt zum Beispiel im AR Bereich ist es son bisschen, wie echt fühlt sich das Ganze an? Also wie sehr ist dieses drei D Objekt, fühlt sich das real für dich an, was Du jetzt vor dir im Raum hast und da drin ist die Vision zum Beispiel sehr stark, einfach weil die quasi das Lighting generiert aus der Umgebung und auch sehr gut mit den Schatten ist. Und da sind wir auch bei 'nem guten Punkt, also Schatten zum Beispiel und Ambient Oclusion, also Ambient Oclusion für die, die es nicht wissen, ist son bisschen so was wie 'n Kontaktschatten, also wenn zwei Flächen aufeinandertreffen, dann wird son son Ticken dunkler zur Kante hin. Das ist was, was das Gehirn automatisch macht, das lässt sich physisch nicht wirklich, also es ist jetzt nicht, dass das irgendwie von von von von der Lichtquelle abhängig ist, sondern das ist einfach da. Und quasi, wenn man diese zwei Schatten drin hat und die halbwegs gut sind, dann ist das schon sehr wichtig für die Immersion grundsätzlich im Raum und grade auch, wie das drei D Objekt im im Raum verankert ist. Was war der andere Begriff? Flow State. Aber genau. Oder bist Du noch? Flow State? Ich hätte jetzt nicht, mir würde jetzt nicht direkt was einfallen, was dann irgendwie damit zu VR Development gehört. Also Flow State ist für mich einfach wirklich das, was beim Gaming auftritt. Also ich kenn's noch einfach so, man hatte immer, man versucht diese Balance herzustellen, dass etwas nicht zu schwer ist, weil dann überfordert's einen, aber auch nicht zu leicht ist, weil dann hat man Langeweile. Wenn Du in diesem Modus bist, ich mein, als Programmierer kennt man's hoffentlich, dass man irgendwann einfach in diesem Tunnel ist, das wär jetzt der Flow State. Mit 'nem guten Game kann man das erreichen, ist für mich aber unabhängig das Konzept von VR AR, das kann man auch damit erreichen, aber ja. Genau, also Flow ist ja quasi, man ist ja gut in dem Flow State drin, wenn man einfach eine Schwierigkeit wählt, die die dich fordert, aber nicht überfordert, aber schon eigentlich fast schon so an der Grenze ist und dich auch so langsam reinführt, also dass Du quasi, also man kann ja quasi in Steps in diesen Flow reingeführt werden und das ist wahrscheinlich einfach gutes Gamedesign, das hat glaube ich jetzt nicht direkt mit VR was zu tun. Aber ist das nicht so, These, ich hab keine Ahnung, ich hab da nicht meine Abschlussarbeit drüber geschrieben, dass in 'nem VR und AR Space Performance viel wichtiger ist, son State zu erhalten, weil wenn ich jetzt an meinem Rechner sitz und ich spiel hier, weiß nicht, mal meinen Shooter oder sowas und da droppt ab und zu mal son Frame, dann ist das halt irgendwie ärgerlich, aber das stört mich nicht weiter, aber wenn ich gerade in 'nem Area- oder via Space unterwegs bin und das droppt eins oder zwei Frames, dann bricht so meine Realität mich rum. So und das ist, glaube ich, viel mehr disruptive in dem Moment, ja, wenn ich jetzt im beim beim Bizepsspielen irgendwie hart dabei bin so, ja, und auf einmal hüpfen so alle Klötzen, mich rum, anstatt sich irgendwie flüssig zu bewegen oder so, da ist direkt dieser State halt kaputt so, weil ich weiß auch, okay, hier hat irgendwie gerade meine, also son Glitch in der Matrix hab ich rum aufgetreten, ja, und meine Realität war kurz kaputt und das das glaube ich, das was Du meinst, Dave, ne, dass dass man so dieses Performance dann irgendwie machen muss, weil das halt auf einmal sehr viel wichtiger wird, als es vorher vielleicht war. Das stimmt, ja nee, ist 'n guter Punkt. Also ich würd generell sagen, also ich find so irgendwie auf allen Plattformen Performance wichtig, so, das sollte man einfach dann einhalten, deswegen, aber ja, es ist bei VR bestimmt noch mal wichtiger. Es ist auch in dem Sinne bei VR dieses mit dem Optimierung noch mal wichtiger, weil man halt überlegen muss, also bei der Vision Pro zum Beispiel, klar, die hat 'n starken Chip, ich glaub, das ist der m2, also wie wie eine Macbook Air, aber da sind zwei vier k Displays drin, so. Das heißt, diese Brille muss wirklich drei D Objekte im Raum erkennen, die muss den ganzen Kram machen, wir haben da Sachen rumfliegen und das mit sonem Mobile Chip am Ende des Tages, der ja mit 'ner Batterie gepowert wird. Man stößt schnell an Stellen, wenn man nicht optimiert, wo es halt einfach kritisch wird. Also das muss man, ja, das haben wir die ganze Zeit beim Development im Kopf behalten müssen und da vor allem am Anfang war es halt spannend, weil da gab's einfach noch keine Guidelines dafür. Also da teilweise haben wir dann auch Sachen gefunden, die dann sozusagen bei dem Community Framework noch kaputt waren, ne, die die optimieren mussten und so weiter. Das ist natürlich immer der Struggle, wenn man früh dabei ist sozusagen. Aber es ist auch interessant das Thema in dem Sinne, weil es ist glaube ich für VR ist es unfassbar wichtig, dass es gut optimized ist, weil Du Du willst keine sechzig FPS, also Du willst eher neunzig FPS oder hundertzwanzig FPS, weil Du wirklich, Du willst wirklich, also da sind wir wieder im Begriff immersiv, also Du bist dann schon eher in dieser Anwendung drin und ich hab auch das Gefühl, dass Motion Sickness weniger auftritt, wenn Du eine höhere Framerate hast. Also gerade wenn dann es anfängt zu ruckeln beim Testen und so, das sind dann schon eher die Momente, wo einem mal son bisschen schlecht wird. Und also gerade bei einem, also zum Beispiel es gab einen Biatsaber Klon für die Vision Pro, der der rausgekommen ist und der war nicht so komplett flüssig und jedem, also also ich zum Beispiel bin jemand, der kein Problem mit Motion Stickness hat auf auf VR Brillen und mir war auch nach einer Minute kurz übel, als wir das gespielt haben. Also es war auf jeden Fall, also optimieren. Und das Verrückte ist, jetzt gerade als Division rausgekommen ist, also da sind teilweise muss man an Sachen denken, die aus dem typischen Game Development jetzt nicht unbedingt son Ding sind. Also wie viele, also klar ist das schon auch 'n Ding, aber zum Beispiel drauf wir gekommen sind, sind Draw Calls. Mhm. Also es ist nicht nur wichtig, wie ist der, wie hoch aufgelöst sind die drei D Modelle und wie viele, sondern auch wie viele Materialien werden verwendet und wie viele Gameobjekts gibt's generell. Also was man zum Beispiel gerne mal macht, 'n bisschen Zeit zu sparen, ist zum Beispiel, man macht einen leeres Gameobjekt, einen drei-d-Modell drum rum, zum Beispiel son gewissen Offset zu haben. Also dass Du quasi das Gameobjekt selbst ist bei null null null, wenn wir jetzt die die Spielwelt nehmen, also quasi genau in der Mitte, aber Du willst quasi, dass das drei D Objekt immer drei Meter von der Mitte entfernt ist und kannst dann quasi, wenn Du's mit Code ansteuerst, halt quasi immer mit null null null rechnen, obwohl das also son bisschen und das ist sone Denke, die man sich son, die ich mir zum Beispiel son bisschen so angewöhnt hatte und die dann aber einfach Performance gekostet hat auf der Vision am Anfang, weil die dann quasi dieses drei D Objekt noch mal als dieses leere Objekt noch mal als Extraobjekt mit berechnet hat und das dann und so weiter. Ja, genau. Lass uns vielleicht noch mal über Performance sprechen, weil da sind ja die beiden großen Plattformen, die Quest und die Vision Pro gerade sehr unterschiedlich aufgestellt. So und auch ja bewusst sehr unterschiedlich aufstellt, ne, also Vision Pro, mehr Kameras, irgendwie mehr Displays. Du hast grade die die ganzen Lightning Berechnungen irgendwie angesprochen, die da schon so für dich erledigt werden und Apple versucht da ja so im Prinzip möglichst authentisch, möglichst performant was zu bieten, so. Und gefühlt, ich bin kein Profi, aber gefühlt geht Meta mit mit der Questzone sehr andere Route, so. Alles 'n bisschen kleiner, alles 'n bisschen lowkey. Sie haben gefühlt auch gar nicht den Anspruch, so viel authentizierter reinzubringen, ja, aber ermöglichen halt dadurch einfach eine andere Art oder überhaupt erst mal Games, die es ja vorher so gar nicht gab, ja. Und ich hab da neulich mit meinem Bruder drüber gesprochen, weil der auch da so in dem Space 'n bisschen unterwegs ist. Und die Frage ist ja, ist das 'n Problem, was sich über Zeit einfach löst, weil irgendwann wird Performance billig und möglich genug, dass man das auch in kleineren billigeren Headsets unterbringt oder ist das wie im PC Gaming halt auch, dass es trotzdem, also auch wenn gute Performance immer erschwinglicher wird, die noch viel bessere Performance ja auch immer noch da sein wird, so, ja? Also 'n Headset, was dreimal so viel kostet, wird immer noch mal mehr Performance irgendwie bringen können, ja? Und wo seht ihr da so den den Gaming Markt, dass er so wirklich auf dieses Triple-a-Level hinzielt und fotorealistisch dir irgendwelche Welten bieten will oder eher in so Spielen wie jetzt bei bei Tiny Finns, bei Beatsaver, bei Pistol Wippie halt mit 'nem mit 'nem ganz anderen Ansatz da eigentlich fahren, ja? Also ich glaube auf jeden Fall son bisschen dieses, also hast Du so zwei Aspekte angesprochen. Also das eine ist auf jeden Fall immer, ja, die Brillen werden immer stärker, aber natürlich erstens heißt es dann auch zum Beispiel mehr Pixel, also das heißt, die Performance wird dann irgendwo auch verbraucht und die Ansprüche werden auch immer höher, also das heißt, da muss man dann doch wieder optimieren. Das andere finde ich halt super spannend, dieses mit dem geht's so in Richtung Fotorealismus, weil das ist sone Bewegung, die mich persönlich teilweise son bisschen abfuckt, weil man dann immer dieses hat, oh, wir wollen's jetzt noch realistischer, wollen's immer wieder realistischer. Aber meine persönliche Wahrnehmung ist gerade im VR Bereich, also man dachte, finde ich, am Anfang immer so, ah, damit's immersiv ist, muss es fotorealistisch sein, weil dann sieht's ja aus wie die echte Welt, aber das stimmt einfach gar nicht. Also die andere Aspekte machen es immersiv und das kann auch komplett stylized sein. Das macht's oft sogar noch mehr immersiv. Aber sorry, wenn ich da kurz unterbrechen, weil also ich, in der Beobachtung würde ich hier voll zustimmen, ja, so, wenn ich Bit selber spiele, fühle ich mich voll drin, weil also, ne, egal ob's jetzt high poly ist oder nicht, aber dadurch das halt gut funktioniert und akkurat ist, fühlt es sich echt an. Genau. Aber die Frage ist, ist es nicht einfach nur so low poly, weil es nicht anders geht Und ist die Erwartungshaltung nicht eigentlich doch eine andere, aber man kann halt einfach nicht? Ich glaube nicht. Also, meine Meinung dazu ist genauso, also hier Inside out zum Beispiel, Disney Pixar Filme, die sind nicht, also, die wären jetzt nicht besser dadurch, wenn es echte Schauspieler wären, meiner Meinung nach. Also diese Charaktere sind Stylyzed, die können Emotionen, also wie 'n guter Comic noch mal auf 'nem anderen Level vermitteln und da hat's einfach seinen seinen Platz. Also jetzt zum Beispiel Disney und Pixar, die haben ja praktisch kein Performance Limit. Also die haben da riesige Renderfarmen, deren Lightning und die Berechnung, die die anstellen, sind Wahnsinn, aber die Charaktere sind trotzdem in dem Sinne simpel. Also die haben wahrscheinlich Millionen von Polygone und so, aber wenn man die sich anguckt, ist ja ganz klar, das ist kein echter Mensch, so. Ja. Ich glaub, wo man auch aufpassen muss, ist, die Technik ist auf jeden Fall noch nicht da, dass Du in VR Fotorealismus wirklich geil darstellen kannst. Und sobald Du versuchst, realistisch zu sein, landest Du schnell in der Uncanny Valley. Also Du bist dann, grade wenn's jetzt Menschen oder so was geht, das ist, ich kenn kein Computerspiel, was auf dem Level ist, dass Du denkst, wow, das ist das sieht grade fotorealistisch aus in Realtime. Das geht bei Produktpräsentationen, also wenn Du zum Beispiel im AR Bereich sagst, ey, wir schauen uns jetzt den neuen Föhn von Dyson in drei d an und zeigen das 'n paar Leuten, dann natürlich schon. Und gerade bei metallischen oder sagen wir glänzenden Sachen geht das auch schon relativ gut. Aber gerade wenn's auch organische Sachen geht, Pflanzen, Menschen, Tiere, da ist Fotorealismus ist noch nicht so weit. Ja, ich glaube ich bin da aber insgesamt auch 'n bisschen mal Seppi so, Was Du auch gesagt hast, so man man macht so sein eigenes Artwork und so, seinen eigenen Style. Ich find 'n ganz großes Beispiel dafür ist ja auch Nintendo. Ja. Die haben jetzt überhaupt keine krasse Hardware schon seit Jahrzehnten nicht. Aber die Spiele sehen ja trotzdem irgendwie schön aus, ne. Wenn man jetzt so Mario oder auch The Legend of Zelda anschaut, die haben son eigenes Artwork. Man man findet's trotzdem schön und ansprechend so, ist aber natürlich nicht super hochauflösend. Und ich glaub, da versucht man, glaub ich, auch in VR oder AR auch gar nicht hinzugehen, sondern eher so wirklich, wir machen unseren eigenen Art Style und das versuchen wir gut rüberzubringen. Genau, ja. Das wird son bisschen, glaube ich, halt durch die Performance Limitierung wird's erzwungen und deswegen gehen die Leute in die Richtung. Ich glaube, viele würden versuchen, Fotorealismus zu gehen und es wird auch sicherlich kommen. Und ich glaube auch, das ist ja immer dieses Ding, dieser Fotorealismus Punkt ist beeindruckend, solange es das Beste ist. Also wenn wir jetzt zehn Jahre zurückgehen, ich glaub, man erinnert sich immer so, zum Beispiel die PS3 kam raus, das Spiel, was dann da rauskam, war für einen, oh mein Gott, das sieht jetzt aus wie echt. Man guckt fünf Jahre später wieder drauf, dann so, nee, nee, nee, das war nicht gut. War das damals wirklich, ja, crazy. Haben alle gesagt, okay, realistischer geht's nicht mehr. Ja, und ich glaub, diese Momente werden in VR auch kommen und wahrscheinlich noch mal krasser sein, so, oh mein Gott, das sieht jetzt wirklich echt aus. Und das, ich glaub, das ist cool und ich find's geil, wenn es dann irgendwann geht, aber das heißt nicht, dass dann Styylzed und und halt 'n simplerer Look nicht trotzdem Platz hat. Das ist richtig. Ich hatte übrigens son Erlebnis, als ich Final Fantasy damals im Kino geguckt hab, das war ja auch 3D gerendert, aber halt so mit echten Menschen. Final Fantasy hat son Kinofilm? Ja. Ja, Dave, das war vor deiner Zeit. Alter, da ist krass. Und als ich den gesehen hab, damals sagt er auch so, okay krass, jetzt sind alle Schauspieler arbeitslos und wir werden nur noch so 3D gerenderte Menschen haben. Wenn Du ihn dir heute anguckst, so kannst Du mal einen Trailer nachher schauen, dann denkst Du auch so, da ist der ja mit Tomaten im Augen ins Kino gegangen. Ja okay, aber dann lass uns doch mal son bisschen in die Zukunft vielleicht schauen, wie sich dieses denn Oh, ich hatte vorhin noch mal eine Frage Okay, lass uns doch nicht in die Zukunft schauen. Es ist natürlich, man man spricht nicht so übers Geld, aber ich würd trotzdem bisschen über das Finanzielle son bisschen sprechen. Und zwar fand ich das interessant, weil ihr vorhin angeschnitten habt, so ihr hattet bisher keine Web AR Anwendung gemacht Mhm. Und genau. Ich ich hab ja immer so geschaut, zum Beispiel jetzt, was die Apple Vision Pro angeht und es gibt keine genauen Angaben, wie viel davon jetzt verkauft worden sind. Ja. Aber wir haben ja so trotzdem generell festgestellt, die sowohl dieser VR als auch Mixed Reality als auch AR Markt relativ klein, ne. Und dann natürlich, wenn man dann halt auch eine Anwendung für macht, die verkauft und so, sind potenziell nicht sehr viele Kunden. Und da ist son bisschen die Frage, diese dieser gesamte Bereich Web AR, der ist ja viel zugänglicher, weil jeder hat ja quasi 'n Smartphone und dass man daraus potenziell also 'n viel größeren Markt bedient. Ist das auch was, was für euch spannend ist, wo ihr dann auch grade Überlegung macht, vielleicht eher in die Richtung zu gehen? Oder sagt ihr, momentan fahrt ihr mit der Größe eures Teams und so insgesamt damit gut, so wie es grade ist? Ist eine gute Frage. Also bei uns ist es natürlich immer son bisschen, es ist sone Mischung aus, wir haben Bock uns da drauf zu stürzen und was sind die Anfragen, die wir bekommen oder wenn wir quasi, wenn wir auf, natürlich sind wir hin und wieder auch auf Networking Events unterwegs, was ist da so der Vibe, worauf stehen die Leute gerade? Und genau, bis jetzt ist, glaube ich, also ich glaub das, was uns hauptsächlich von von Web AR abgehalten hat, ist wirklich, wie Seppi schon gesagt hat, es gibt eigentlich nur einen, der das richtig gut macht, was wir was auf dem Qualitätslevel ist, was wir Kunden anbieten wollen und die sind viel zu teuer. Mhm. Ja. Ja. Also sonst wüsste ich jetzt auch nicht direkt, was mir noch dazu einfällt. Also grad wenn man jetzt den Mobile Market anspricht, dann so was wie, Pokémon Go hat's ja in dem Sinne vorgemacht, kannst Du ja auch mit 'ner App riesengroß sein. Mhm. Also Genau, also wir wenn 'n neues Medium rauskommt wie die Vision Pro zum Beispiel, dann stürzen wir uns da drauf, haben dann quasi mal geguckt, was geht auf dem Markt und wir haben festgestellt, dass damit lässt sich jetzt nicht das große Geld machen. Also das Spiel bringt uns, hat uns vielleicht, weiß ich nicht, fünftausend Euro glaube ich bisher. Fünftausend Euro bis jetzt eingebracht. Das ist bei einer Entwicklungszeit von vier Monaten natürlich absurd lächerlich. Das ist jetzt, es ist cool, also es ist einfach 'n cooles Ding gewesen, es hat mega Bock gemacht. Aber es ist jetzt nicht das, was unsere Firma finanziert. Da geht man dann doch wieder in die Kundenprojekte eher. Mhm. Ja. Das ist eher so eine Referenz, die wir nutzen können, Projekte zu bekommen, aber wenn wir jetzt einfach 'n Game Studio wären und das wär jetzt, das wär unser Produkt und wir machen nur Vision Pro Games, boah tough. Ich weiß nicht, ob das irgendjemand gerade machen kann. Ich glaube nicht. Unabhängig davon, ob ihr das jetzt gerade machen könnt, aber wär das was, was ihr gerne machen würdet? Also wir haben son bisschen damit geliebäugelt, wenn jetzt quasi wir eine Kooperation mit Apple hätten quasi und dann nur noch AR Games für die Vision Pro machen und dann finanziert werden, das wär schon der Dream, also das wär schon sehr geil. Ja. Ja. Man muss ja auch träumen dürfen. Ja. Aber ich glaube, das ist gerade der richtige Move auch sehr früh in diesem Ökosystem drin zu sein, so quasi vielleicht sich als erstes Unternehmen auch zu etablieren, was so diesen Gaming Markt angeht. Da hab ich mit mit Yanno vorhin geredet, weil wir auch über Apps damals für für für iOS geredet haben. Ich hab einfach mal geschaut, so was damals irgendwie so die Top Charts war und da fand ich halt so lustig, dass dieses iFart Mobile einfach auf Platz eins war. Ja oder dieses Bierapp. Ja, die haben ja auch diese Bierapp, die haben gedacht. Und dieser Knopf, also das war ja diese aFart Mobile hat sie einfach nur son Knopf, wo dann irgendwie verschiedene sind, ich glaub, acht maximal, die sie unterschieden haben und so. Und die hat ja glaub ich auch, weiß nicht, drei Euro kostet, vier Euro oder lass es 'n Euro gewesen sein. Aber ich glaub, die hat auch 'n riesen Revenue und war auch Platz eins zu der Charts damals. Also deswegen, ich glaub, es lohnt sich auch auf jeden Fall sehr früh am Ball zu sein. Ihr müsst einfach die I Am Rich App für VR bauen. Geil. Dann habt ihr schon ausgesorgt. Also was wir jetzt son bisschen gemacht haben dieses Jahr ist, wir haben uns jetzt bei anderen Agenturen im Frankfurter Raum quasi son bisschen vorgestellt als die Agentur, die für die Vision Pro entwickeln kann und haben uns da auch son bisschen etabliert und wir sind jetzt in zwei, drei Projekten deswegen für Vision Pro. Aber genau, also im Prinzip haben wir das schon son bisschen gemacht. Mhm. Ja. Genau, also da wird auch grade von meinem Gefühl her vor allem Division Pro eingesetzt, so da ist so richtig die Value da, so Business Kontext und so weiter, ja. Was was glaubt ihr muss passieren, dass dieses Ökosystem allgemein größer wird, weil ja, also son bisschen Pro ist teuer, muss man gar nicht drüber reden, aber es gibt ja auch billigere Alternativen und grade wenn man jetzt sone Meta Quest 3S anguckt für irgendwie dreihundert Dollar oder sowas, glaube ich, ne, dann ist das ja im Vergleich zu anderen, grade wenn ihr sagt, man vergleicht das dann aus dem Gaming Bereich vielleicht auch mit Konsolen, ist es gar nicht mehr so teuer eigentlich, ja. Aber ich frag mich, also aus meiner Sicht fehlt halt gefühlt sone sone Killer App in diesem Space, so. Also weißt Du wo eine App, die Du siehst, wo Du denkst, okay, allein dafür will ich mich jetzt in diesen Space einkaufen, egal ob das jetzt mit 'ner Vision Pro oder 'ner Meta Quest oder eine Hololens, wenn Du so irgendwo gebraucht noch findest, so nachdem es keine mehr gibt, ja. Also was kann diesen Pull Faktor halt so aufbauen, dass das irgendwie mal für die Mehrheit der Leute interessant und son bisschen aus diesem Nischen Thema rauskommt. Ich glaube son bisschen, dass die Killer App dann kommen wird, wenn man's wirklich im Alltag verwenden kann. So, und damit meine ich, dass man damit auch rausgehen kann. Also und Aber ist das nicht so ein soziales Problem? Also ich mein, ich könnte ja jetzt auch mit meiner Vision oder mit meiner Meta Quest drei durch die Gegend laufen, aber ehrlicherweise Gibt sehr viele Youtube Videos von. Ja, aber ehrlicherweise mache ich's halt nicht, weil ich mir denk so, die Leute würden dich, glaube ich, komisch angucken. Ja, aber das ist ja 'n soziales Problem, was Du mit der Technik lösen kannst. Also genauso damals irgendwie, Du musst, wenn Du jetzt, wenn Apple jetzt die AirPods designt oder ich glaub, noch bei den ersten Kopfhörern war's auch son bisschen so die Frage, oh, würden Leute mit Kopfhörern rausgehen? Und dann machst Du die halt irgendwie sleak und weiß und die müssen cool aussehen. So, Du musst dich cool fühlen, wenn Du damit rausgehst und grade fühlst Du dich eher nerdy und komisch, so. Und mal ganz davon abgesehen, dass Du natürlich damit zum Beispiel nicht Auto fahren kannst, dass Du die, wenn Du die mehr als zwei Stunden aufhast, also Du willst, Du willst die nicht vierundzwanzig sieben Stunden aufhaben. Es muss irgendwie klein, es muss kompakt sein, klar der Traum ist irgendwie Kontaktlinsen, sonst was. Ja, also. Ich glaube, die Apps gibt's auch schon in 'nem gewissen Maße. Die sind nur nicht, also ich glaube schon, dass wenn Du sone einfach eine normale Brille hättest wie jetzt eine Lesebrille oder eine Sehbrille und die kann AR. Google Maps in der Eier wär der Hammer, dich irgendwohin zu navigieren oder Du bist in irgend 'nem Supermarkt und das kann dir zeigen, welches Produkt in welchem Regal steht, mal die spießigen Sachen abzudecken. Aber nein, aber so praktisch, jedes Mal ärgere ich mich noch, warum habt ihr mit dem Regal umgestellt? Aber ganz ehrlich, das war ja schon in dem ersten Demovideo zu Google Glass damals so, ne? Da hast Du diesen Typ gesehen, der irgendwie einkaufen geht und es zeigt ihm irgendwie im Supermarkt, wo er hin muss und dann begegnet ihm jemanden, den er nicht mehr erkennt und über dem Gesicht poppt so der Name und irgendwie die Chathistorie und so weiter. Also diesen Traum gibt es ja gefühlt seit zwanzig Jahren. Genau. Und ja. Gefühlt sind wir nur mit sehr kleinen Schritten irgendwie dem nähergekommen in den letzten zwanzig Jahren. Ja, das ist halt das Krasse. Da musst ich auch eben dran denken, dass Du gesagt hast, ja, man will halt früh dabei sein wie bei dem App Store. Das haben halt auch die Leute schon vor zehn Jahren gesagt. Und man man dachte immer so, in drei Jahren ist denn Schwelle erreicht. Das ist 'n bisschen wie Fusionsenergie. Wir sind eigentlich seit dreißig Jahren so kurz davor, was zu schaffen. Ja. Also als wir vor fünf Jahren so über die Apple Vision, über die Apple Brille philosophiert haben, es war ja irgendwie klar, dass Apple an einer arbeitet, dachte ich vor fünf Jahren schon, dass das eher in Richtung wie sone Brille geht, natürlich jetzt bisschen übertrieben, aber wie eine normale Brille und nicht wie 'n VR Headset. Ich konnt's mir nicht vorstellen, dass Apple so was rausbringen würde, was wie 'n VR Headset aussieht überhaupt. Ist dann halt, ja, die Technik hat anscheinend ergeben, das geht halt nicht so klein. Auf deine Frage zurückzukommen, ich glaube, es ist wirklich, es ist wirklich der Formfaktor und das Geld. Also ich glaube, wenn wenn da eine Brille für in 'nem normalen Preisrahmen, sagen wir so teuer wie 'n iPhone tausend fünfhundert Euro oder so und die ist wirklich sleak und die ist integriert sich geil in deinen Alltag, dann würden die Anwendungen, die schon da sind, sind dann entweder gut genug oder die werden sehr schnell kommen. Also ich glaub es ist wirklich, es ist ein Hardware Problem. Also wenn man sich anguckt, was Meta neben Space gerade macht mit den Raibants oder mit dem Orion, wo wir ja auch vor zwei, drei Wochen hier im Podcast Orion. Orion. Wir haben uns drauf Andy Orion zu sagen. Aber sogar diese, die Orion sieht immer noch son bisschen dumm aus. Also, ja Gut, so, krass. Weil sie kommt jetzt auch aus dem Prototyp Labor und hat's glaube ich nicht dafür gemacht, irgendwie bei Ray Ben im Laden zu sitzen so. Nein, nein, aber das ist der Prototyp, den sie noch nicht verkaufen könnten, der würde irgendwie zehntausend Euro kosten, das heißt, das ist aber das Beste, was gerade geht und die sieht auch immer noch bisschen klunky aus. Die sind kleine D-Brille im Kino. Ja, daran, genau, da hab ich auch gedacht, weil ich auch son bisschen die Gläser hatte. Ja, ja, ja. So und also, ich weiß nicht, ob ich damit rausgehen würde. Und das ist halt dann schon, also, ich glaub, das zeigt son bisschen, wie weit wir dann doch noch davon leider entfernt sind. Okay. Cool. Dave, noch eine Frage? Ja, vielleicht, weil wir ja grad so mit Blick in die Zukunft sind, vielleicht noch mal 'n bisschen so, was die Entwicklung explizit angeht oder ja, vielleicht so ganz allgemein, die Extended Reality Apps, was denkt ihr, wo wird sich's in den nächsten Jahren hinbewegen und welche Kinderkrankheiten müssen definitiv in der Entwicklung gelöst werden, damit das halt für viel mehr Leute zugänglich sein wird? Also ich glaub, ein großes eine große Kinderkrankheit für die Entwickler wurde jetzt schon mit der Kooperation zwischen Unity und Apple bisschen leichter gemacht. Also Du kannst quasi in deiner vertrauten Game Engine der Wahl beziehungsweise wenn Unity deine Wahl ist, kannst Du kannst Du einfach entwickeln und das dann quasi auf die Vision Pro portten oder auf die Quest oder aufs Smartphone oder ins Web. Das ist alles schon son bisschen, das hat's auf jeden Fall schon mal wesentlich einfacher gemacht. Mhm. Und natürlich ist Apple auch voll die Route gegangen, alle unsere iPhone Apps funktionieren ja praktisch auch auf der Vision, beziehungsweise Swift UI geht ja auch auf der Vision, halt in zwei-d-Fenster dann logischerweise. Das hat natürlich, ist auch in dem Sinne gut und ermöglicht theoretisch natürlich vielen Entwicklern, die irgendwie Erfahrung haben, im App Bereich da direkt einzusteigen. Mich ist dann halt son bisschen, ich glaub, es gibt sone Riesenschwelle zwischen Leuten so, hey, ich mach Apps, ich mach irgendwie zwei d und Leuten, hey, ich mach Games. Und das ist eigentlich dieser Gamesbereich ist viel näher am Augmented Reality Bereich und ich glaub, die ganzen App Leute sind nicht richtig abgeholt oder die Brücke werden die vielleicht nicht machen. Also, und dann bleibt's halt bei diesen Fenster Apps und es ist son bisschen schade, weil was kann sone Fenster App am Ende des Tages wirklich? Klar, ist nicht schlecht, aber nutzt das jetzt wirklich die Brille aus oder ist es einfach, hab ich jetzt meine iPhone App auf der Brille, so, ja. Also nur noch mal kurz Fenster App vielleicht zu klarifyen. Also zum Beispiel wir haben am Anfang gab's total viele Apps, die auf Division Pro geportet wurden, die eigentlich fürs iPad waren und ich weiß nicht, ob ihr zum Beispiel Deadpack Joyright kennt. Das war jetzt nicht son spannender Port, muss ich sagen. Genau, das ist halt quasi, ja, Du wirst irgendwie eine VR Umgebung gesetzt in son virtuelles Labor, aber eigentlich ist es wie als würdest Du das Spiel auf 'nem Beamer spielen. Also Du hast 'n großen Screen vor dir, da ist es in zwei D, wenn Du die Finger zusammentappst, dann fliegt der nach oben und fällt dann wieder runter und es fühlt sich einfach lazy an. Also es ist ganz nett. Ich mein das für Leute, die keinen Bildschirm haben. Genau. Ja. Ja. Ja, aber es ist halt einfach, Jetpack Drivriide hab ich auch gespielt und ich musste sagen, das ist einfach die schlechtere Version vom Original, weil Du gewinnst nichts. Du hast es einfach nur in der a wie vor in so 'ner 2D Plane Folie und die Steuerung ist noch viel unakkurater als sie schon ist im Original. Original. Genau und das ist natürlich, also wenn Du dann natürlich irgendwie, es gibt viel coole Reports, wo dann mit dem Jetpack vielleicht wo Du im Raum rumfliegen kannst, aber Du musst dir dann, es gibt einfach Mechanics, die dann vielleicht nicht mehr funktionieren und ich weiß gar nicht worauf ich hinaus wollte damit. Ja, also die meisten Apps sehen halt so aus, so ungefähr. Ja, ja. Und weil es halt auch Development dann, glaube ich, schwerfällt dieses von 2D zu 3D oder also das halt einfach, das alles ist anders auf einmal und die machen diesen Sprung nicht oder der Sprung ist auch fällt auch nicht leicht. Aber ich muss auch sagen, ich will ja auch gar nicht alles so 3D haben. Also wenn ich jetzt an meine, weiß nicht, an meine Adressbuch App denke, ja, dann will ich ja, wenn ich die aufmache, irgendwie mein Adressbuch durchflicken und nicht jeden, der in meinem Adressbuch ist, so als 3D Avatar vor mir sehen und mich dann so durch die Meute wühlen müssen, jetzt irgendwie meine Mutter zu finden, damit ich sie anrufen kann, ja, so. Also es ist ja schon auch legitim, dass dass es diese Art von Apps irgendwie auch in 'nem AR- oder via Umfeld gibt, aber ich bin auch bei euch so, ich glaub, bei ganz viel könnte man noch son bisschen bisschen nicht machen. Ja, ich glaube, ich komme immer aus dem, das ist dann vielleicht son bisschen mehr so in die Zukunft gedacht, aus diesem Aspekt. Meine Traumvision von Augmented Reality ist eigentlich, dass wir die echte will, echte Welt, so oder die Aspekte der echten Welt, die wir gewohnt sind, wieder bekommen. Und in der echten Welt ist eigentlich fast nix flach. Also da sind die Sachen flach, die wir kreiert haben, unsere Tablets, unsere unsere Papier und Zettel, aber die ganzen Sachen, die wir anfassen, die sind alle irgendwie halt dreidimensional, die sind haptik, die sind, die vermitteln mir viel mehr Informationen als es irgendwelche flachen Sachen könnten. Deswegen glaube ich, dass irgendwann alles irgendwie dimensional und räumlich wird und unser Gehirn und wie wir denken, kann damit besser umgehen. Der Rollodex kommt wieder als Kontakt App. Ja, vielleicht. Es ist ja auch so, dass gerade einen Trend im Designbereich ist ja Fidgetle, also quasi Du hast wieder haptische Buttons, Du kannst wieder Du hast wieder Widerstand, wenn Du was drehst, Du kannst Sachen anfassen und ich hoffe oder könnte mir gut vorstellen, dass da eine dass da eine Korrelation entsteht zwischen AR und diesen physischen Buttons. Also was zum Beispiel mega Bock macht, ich weiß nicht, ob ihr im Europapark zum Beispiel Julbi kennt, die machen so VR Experiences. Ja. Da gehst Du in sone Halle rein und Du hast dann wirklich, Du hast einen physischen Hebel, den kannst Du umlegen, der ist in drei D auch da, das ist voll VR oder da ist einen Modell von 'nem Leuchtturm, was Du hochheben kannst und in VR kannst Du den dann als Taschenlampe benutzen, weil Du gerade 'n Riese bist und alle anderen sind klein. Und diese Kombination ist, finde ich, das Magischste, was aktuell möglich ist. Und ich hoffe sehr, dass es sich in diese Richtung entwickelt son bisschen, aber ich glaube, ich bin mir nicht sicher, weil wer weiß. Also es ist schon es ist schon auch teuer einfach immer wieder die Hardware sozusagen dann dazu zu verkaufen. Ja. Aber es kann ja auch einfach in also so Use Case spezifisch schon hilfreich sein. Ja, also ich fand das bei der Meta Quest zum Beispiel ganz cool, wie sie so die Controller, wenn sie in der Gegend rumliegen und und Du siehst die Controller quasi durch die Brille, dann sind die so gehighlightet. Die haben einfach sone minimale Strahlkraft, so damit sie in deinem Raum son bisschen besser auffallen und Du sie finden kannst, das das ja schon ganz cool eigentlich. So, ja. Und wenn man so Sachen einfach ein bisschen mit ein bisschen mehr Liebe irgendwie im Detail macht's ja auch ganz cool. So, habt ihr noch irgendwas, über das ihr gerne gesprochen hättet und euch denkt, wieso hat mich weder der Dave noch der Jan danach gefragt, ich wollte unbedingt über XYZ treten, diese Trottel, ja. Amateure. Nee. Nee, nicht wirklich. Wunderbar. Dann wären wir fast am Ende, aber Dave, was kommt? Oh, meine Lieblingskategorie, take of the Dave, was ich mir nicht spontan während der Folge einfallen habe lassen. Dave, was hast Du dabei? Hey, ja, voll cool. Ich hatte mir, weil wir jetzt hier über VR und AR und so was alles reden, jetzt kann ich ja endlich mal sagen Beatsaybern, das würde ich verloren, weil Beatsayence echt lustig ist. Ja. Ich mein ich mein ich mein Tiny Fins. Richtig. Das das muss ich Wobei, oh, ich hab ich hab auch eine Recherche, oh, ich muss kurz ausschwenken. Der rote Faden würde richtig ersichtlich. Ja, der rote Faden. Und zwar ich ich war ich war natürlich auch auf euer Website von und mein Lieblingsding war einfach Dancing Sterni. Geil. Da ist auch eine kurze Anekdote dazu, weil Manuel, ihr müsst erst erstellen, was das ist für alle da draußen. Okay, also ihr STERNi ist das Markenzeichen, das Maskottchen von Sternburg, der Biermarke, ist vor allem so im westlichen Raum Leipzig und so bekannt. Oh, in Berlin, in Berlin Riedries nur. Genau, genau. Hatten auch zu denen gepitcht und wir haben eine Sachen wollt mitgebracht und so was am Ende, wollten die davon nix, haben uns aber 'n kleines Präsent mitgegeben. Dann sind wir wir sind im Auto angefahren, am Ende mit acht Kästen Sternburg zurückgefahren und das war auch einfach, das war schön. Da hat sich die Arbeit gelohnt, ne? Ja, auf jeden Fall, nee, da sind wir extra hochgefahren, haben dann noch eine kleine Tour durch die Fabriken gekriegt und so, haben mit dem Marketingdirektor gesprochen und haben dann aber herausgefunden, dass Sternburg kein also ein Ding von denen ist, dass die kein Geld für Marketing ausgeben. Und weil die sind so Und das hat sie euch neu vorher gesagt. Netzläufer. Genau. Weil die sind so ein bisschen ja punkig würde ich fast sagen, so von ihrer Art. Ach krass, ja. Und genau. Wieso hat eine Firma, die kein Geld für Marketing ausgibt, 'n Marketing Director? Das ist eine gute Frage. Der sagt immer, nein. Machen wir nicht nein. Genau und dann hat mir son paar Sachen vorbereitet und ein Prototyp war quasi, dass so die Sternburgdose, dass die erkannt wird vom Handy und das dann quasi das Maskottchen, was son kleiner, fast schon son Stoffseestern mit 'nem Kronkorken aufm Rücken son bisschen updänced, genau ja. Sehr sympathisch fand ich sehr cool. Es war keine Werbung für Sternburg, aber trinkt jetzt alle in Sternburg. Ja. Nee genau. Und zwar was ich wirklich cool fand und zwar weil Du ja auch Jan bisschen so über diese Zugänglichkeit von Entwicklung angesprochen hast. Da muss ich sagen, ich ich ich komm ja eigentlich ausm Bereich der Bioinformatik und deswegen war ja dieser Bereich Extended Reality war für mich so was ganz neu, aber ich dachte mir so, ich bin jemand, hey, ich bin supersprunghaft, ich hab da Bock drauf, das sieht cool aus, ich mach da jetzt mal 'n Projekt Und ich war wirklich erstaunt, wie leicht es einem gemacht wurde und das war zweitausendzweiundzwanzig, okay, ist nicht mehr super, also. Aber schon, also hat sich bis heute wahrscheinlich viel getan und wie wie zugänglich und einfach das alles war. Und deswegen würd ich zwei Dinge für nämlich empfehlen. Und einmal war's dieses AR Foundation, wovon wir geredet haben, was halt natürlich diese ganze Abstraktionsschicht dann übernimmt, ne. Und dann auch so dieses und auch diese Oklusionen, die Du ja, glaub ich, genannt hast. Genau, dass das auch schon mit drin Und dieses XR Interaction Toolkit. Mhm. Das gibt's ja auch noch. Ja. Genau, wo wo Du dann halt einfach Dinge anfassen kannst, bewegen und so interagieren mit statischen Objekten, wie zum Beispiel irgendwie so ganze Leiter hochklettern und so was alles. Das wird da alles und warum ich da in dem Bereich jetzt auch Unity empfehlen würde, weil also der Einstieg war wirklich sehr, sehr einfach und ich hab auch sehr lange kein Gerät gebraucht, was halt irgendwie Virtual Reality oder Augmented Reality kann, weil dieser dieser Playmode, der wir auch hier paarmal ja angeschnitten. Ja. Der der der ich find, der reicht so gut für die Entwicklung aus, dass man da sich son Überblick schaffen kann, ah okay, das funktioniert das das nicht und so. Das sieht alles so und so aus. Und dann portierst Du's einfach auf dein Gerät und dann funktioniert's eigentlich auch recht gut. Natürlich hier und da hast Du aber Schnittstellen, die nicht so optimal sind. Aber deswegen meine Empfehlung für alle, die ja interessiert sind und irgendwie mal was Neues entdecken wollen. Einfach mal machen, runterladen, die zwei Toolkits und ich glaub, mittlerweile ist der Einstieg auch noch viel angenehmer geworden als noch von vor zwei Jahren. Die Community ist auch superlieb. Ich war da in Foren unterwegs. Da waren immer so zehn Leute aktiv und dann irgendwie hat man sich gegenseitig ausgeholfen, weil irgendwas nicht kompatibel war mit irgend 'ner bestimmten Version und ja, also wie gesagt, alle, die interessiert sind, einfach mal machen, ist sehr cool, macht sehr viel Spaß. Wunderbar. Robin, was hast Du dabei? Genau, ich hab, wir hatten's ja vorhin schon mal von Nintendo und von dem Art Style von Nintendo, das über Immersion und wir sind bei Dietrich auch riesen Nintendo Fans. Also tatsächlich war, wenn ich die erste Anschaffung im in unserem Office war eine Switch. Ja, ja. Und Von dem Arbeitslaptop. Ja. Den hatte man schon. Und genau, nee und da haben wir hat sich relativ schnell etabliert, dass wir da ist, kann man auch die Brücke zur Sternburg schlagen, aber wir machen ganz gerne mal so so Abende, wo wir Mario Kart spielen, sehr, sehr exzessiv und das ist quasi fast schon so wie in sonem Firmensport geworden, mal mit, mal ohne Alkohol dabei. Und genau, bei Mario Kart, das ist so verrückt, weil da sind bestimmt schon, weiß ich nicht, zweihundert Spielstunden reingeflossen. Ich werd jetzt auch gar keine Zahl festlegen in den letzten fünf Und man lernt immer wieder neue Sachen und eine Sache, die mich die ganze Zeit aufgeregt hat, ist, dass man, wenn man springt, wenn man über Hobel fährt sozusagen, dann kann man Tricks machen und je nachdem, in welche Richtung man in welche Richtung man den Joystick bewegt, macht man dann 'n Vorwärtsauto, 'n Rückwärtssalto oder macht wie son top Showwert nach links oder nach rechts. Und ich dachte die ganze Zeit, das bringt einfach gar nichts, das kann man random machen, aber es beeinflusst tatsächlich in wie steil der Drift danach geht. Also wenn man quasi einen Sprung einen Trick nach rechts macht und danach in einen Rechtsdrift geht, dann kann ist der schärfer möglich oder andersrum, wenn Du einen Sprung nach links machst und dann in einen Rechtsdrift gehst, dann ist der Drift weiter als der normale Drift und so kannst Du dann son bisschen streckenmäßig noch was dazulernen. Also das war jetzt meine mein Pick of the day, das fand ich irgendwie interessant. So krass, sone versteckte Mechanik, aber oh so mächtig. Ja. Geil. Richtig nice. Abgefahren, abgefahren. Wunderbar. Mario Kart, Easy to learn hard to master. Okay. Und die haben haben die nicht glaube ich auch das Rubberbanding erfunden. Ja, ich glaube auch nicht. Hat Nintendo nicht 'n Patent da drauf oder so? Ah, das wusste ich nicht. Na, glaube ich nicht. Ich glaube so was ich nieed for Speed oder so macht das auch. Ja gut, das ist ja auch schon, ich meine das bestimmt schon ausgelaufen oder sowas bei den. Ich glaube, die haben die haben damals son Paper darüber geschrieben so. Ach krass. Ja. Also die machen's auf jeden Fall, dass das Game, wo ich sage, es ist am auffälligsten. Also Riverbanding ist das 'n Begriff oder so? Ja für uns ja wahrscheinlich schon, aber Du kannst es auch gerne erklären. Also das heißt eigentlich im Prinzip, dass sich die Bots an den ersten Platz anpassen. Also quasi, dass Du, wenn der erste Platz richtig weit vorne ist, dann fahren die Bots schneller, daran anzuschließen und das ist natürlich zum Leid von allen, die schlechter fahren als der erste Platz, weil dann natürlich die Bots anstrengender sind. Aber auch andersrum, das ist ja auch in den in der Itemvergabe zum Beispiel, wenn Du weiter hinten bist, kriegst Du halt coolere Items, damit Du eine Chance hast, es wieder aufzuholen, weil Rubberbanding ja zum einen das Feld vorne zusammenhalten soll, aber auch verhindern soll das hinten zu viele Ausreißer, deswegen ja so Rubberband, weil das so alle zusammenzieht. Oh, da fand ich auch super interessante Mechanik. Da hab ich letztens gesehen, jemand hat sich absichtlich auf den letzten Platz gebracht, hat dann glaube ich irgendwie Blauen Panzer geholt. Nein, nein, nein. Und hatte dann Kugel Willi und hat dann einfach aber das ganze Zeit gehalten, bis er Erster war und halt quasi dann, falls 'n blauer Panzer kommt, einfach das aktiviert. Das fand ich so schlau. Ja. Da war er so schlau. Das war eine Zeit lang war das wohl online die beste Strategie, sogar am Anfang zu bremsen und hinten zu starten. Es wurd vor 'n paar Monaten gepatcht. Ah, okay, ich wollt sagen, ja, sehr cheep. Ja. Verrückt. Verrückt Kart. Ja. Mein, ich wollte irgendwas zu VR irgendwie mitbringen als Pick of the day und dann dachte ich irgendwie ist das 'n bisschen, weiß nicht, das ist son son bisschen elitär. Das kann jetzt vielleicht nicht jeder irgendwie da draußen nachvollziehen, Aber ich habe letzte Woche Submerged geguckt, diesen Kurzfilm, den Apple veröffentlicht hat für die Mission Pro. Ich muss auch noch gucken. Der geht so, ich glaube, eine Viertelstunde oder so ist das, das spielt in 'nem U-Boot und das ist super interessant, so, ja. Okay. Weil es natürlich, also die ersten Immersive Filme, die Apple gemacht hat, waren ja alle so ein riesen Open Space oder diese Tierducos in der Savanne oder irgendwie in den Bergen oben und bla, das hat dir so ein Gefühl von Größe gegeben und jetzt ist das erste Mal so andersrum. Es gibt ja so ein Gefühl von Enge. Da hast Du irgendwie diese Vision Pro und auf einmal bist Du in so 'nem U-Boot, was nur so zwei, drei Meter dich rum ist und Du hörst irgendwie Geräusche von hinter dir und von vor dir und Du bist dann die ganze Zeit am Umgucken und sowas, glaube ich, auch für diejenigen, die so Filme machen, super schwierig. Wir haben vorhin darüber gesprochen, so beim Debugging, Du musst auf einmal auf alles achten, ich glaub beim Filmemachen auch so und nicht nur musst Du auf alles achten, dass alles gut aussieht, sondern musst auch eigentlich überall son bisschen was was bieten, was sich lohnt anzugucken. So, ja, wenn Du son son Film machst und das merkt man ja schon ganz gut, also egal in welche kleine Ecke vorm Boot Du guckst, irgendwo flickert son Licht oder es läuft sone sone Maus oder sone Kakerlake irgendwie durchs Bild oder so ist immer so son bisschen Move drin. Mhm. Und das war war super spannend, weil's halt beides so irgendwie schafften. Es gibt so Szenen, die sind im Boot, wo Du dich so sehr klaustrophobisch und son bisschen horrormäßig fühlst, wenn da komische Geräusche in langen, leeren Tunneln irgendwie sind und es gibt so Aufnahmen, Szenen, wo Du so außerhalb vom U-Boot quasi das Boot fährt so an dir vorbei, das ist so der Opener, ja, das spoilert man jetzt, glaube ich, nicht so viel. Es hat son bisschen was, wie wenn ihr mal Hand for Rack of Oktober geguckt habt, ja, dieses klassische U-Boot-Film schon Connery. Der Film fängt an, also Sub Merch fängt an, Du bist so im Meer, die Kamera ist im Meer, dich rum nur blau und auf einmal fährt so fünf Meter über dir halt so dieses Riesen-U-Boot drüber, ja, mit so Immersive Sound, das ist schon richtig richtig abgefallen. Also ich weiß nicht, ob ich zwei Stunden mir son richtig langen Spielfilm auf 'ner Vision Pro angucken könnte, allein so ergonomisch. Ja. Wie lange ist jetzt Submerge? Fünfzehn Minuten. Fünfzehn Minuten, okay. Aber die fünfzehn Minuten zeigen halt sehr gut auf, wohin dieses Medium irgendwie gehen könnte, ja. Und es gibt, kann ich mit dazu empfehlen, so als Side Pick, gibt auch son Making of und Behind the Scenes, wo sagt, sag ich, was für was für 'n Kamera Rick brauchst Du halt, irgendwie so Szenen filmen zu können, wie musst Du vielleicht deine Kulisse irgendwie anders aufbauen, Platz und mehr Winkel irgendwie zu ermöglichen und sowas, alles ist auch mega cool. Also a den Film erstmal gucken und danach sich die Magic 'n bisschen versauen und das Making of irgendwie gucken, aber auch beides super interessant. Ja, was mir dazu noch einfällt ist, ist natürlich gerade für solche Sachen ist ja die, sind ja VR Brillen noch viel krasser, aber wenn Du schon son bisschen klaustrophobisch veranlagt bist und würden die Wände immer näher kommen ja physisch, das ist natürlich dann auch 'n viel intensiveres Erlebnis, gerade dann noch, da sind wir auch wieder bei Musik ist auch natürlich wichtig für die Immersion und gerade die Film Pro hat relativ gute Lautsprecher, gerade für die winzige Größe und tatsächlich fühlt sich dann auch das so an, als würde es aus dem Raum kommen. Was son Riesending ist bei dreihundertsechzig Grad Videos oder bei VR Filmenmaking ist natürlich auch, Du hast jetzt nicht direkt Schnitte, also und verschiedene Kameraperspektiven. Also wenn Du die Aufmerksamkeit von dem, der guckst, der guckt auf auf einen bestimmten Gegenstand blenden willst, dann kannst Du nicht einfach cut und nah rangehen, sondern Du musst es dann irgendwie an, also Du könntest schon, aber Also das machen sie auch, aber nur nur ganz ganz selten und halt für so ganz bewusste Effekte, wo Du auf einmal, Du siehst so zwei Leute irgendwie in der in der Offiziersmesse sitzen, wie sie so reden. Zu viele Spoiler schon. Nein, nein, nein. Leute reden. Und auf einmal ist bist Du halt so zehn Zentimeter an dem Face von dem so dran, weil er halt gerade was super wichtiges und eindringliches irgendwie so sagt, ja. Mut stehen. Dafür kannst Du es halt machen. Das spoiler ich jetzt nicht, muss ich selber gucken. Ja, finde ich. Dafür kannst Du es halt machen, aber während dem normalen Storytelling, da wird halt viel mehr so mit mit Schwenks und mit so Focus Shift und sowas gearbeitet und so deine Aufmerksamkeit zu lenken und nicht mit drei verschiedenen Kamerawinkeln, wo Du die ganze Zeit so hin und her hüpfst. Mhm. Mhm. Ja. Gut. Sabine, was hast Du dabei? Ja, genau. Was ich dabei hab, ist auf jeden Fall für alle Leute, die sagen, oh, normale Drogen, die sind nicht hart genug für mich. Oh Gott. Factorio. Ja. Also vor allem jetzt am Montag kam die neue Expansion raus. Klar, ist die Folge auch als schon Splang. Explicicite. Schon wieder. Factorio Space Age, sorry. Also nee, der Richtigmachkeitsfaktor ist bei Factorio zumindest bei mir persönlich extrem groß. Das ist schon schon krass, weil Du hast immer noch das nächste, was Du optimieren kannst und dann hast Du das optimiert und dann sagst, ach nee, ich kann dir aber auch noch das optimieren und es geht unendlich weiter und jetzt mit der neuen Expansion ist es nicht nur auf einen Planeten, sondern man hat jetzt auch noch mehr Planeten, den man optimieren kann. Ja, es ist schwer, das alles irgendwie dann auch noch zu balancen mit Arbeit und Freundin und so. Einfach nicht machen, nicht arbeiten, keine Freundin. Ja. Linefake, Lifefake. Ja. Linefake, nicht arbeiten gehen. Nicht arbeiten und keine Freundin. Pick of the day. Meiner. Bitte nicht. Bitte nicht, ich seh schon die die Mails reinkommen. Ja, hast Du's, seit wann ist das draußen? Seit Montag, also die Expansion. Factorio gibt's natürlich schon seit Jahren, aber das war jetzt die große neue Expansion. Sie hab jahrelang daran gearbeitet und genau, also ich hab jetzt erst zweihundert Stunden in Factorio, also das sind noch kleine Zeit Releases DLCs. Nein, nein, nein, das wär kein Witz. Ja, aber Du merkst einfach, die haben da so viel Zeit reingesteckt, das ist alles so gut durchdacht, also ich freu mich richtig, da noch weiter zu explorieren. Ich glaube, das ist auch son Spiel, was einfach unbegrenzt lange laufen kann eigentlich, weil Du immer mehr Mechanik einfach dazu bauen kannst. Ja, ja. Cool und auch übrigens eine coole Modszene ja auch hat. Also wer einfach selber bisschen was rumschrauben will da in Factorio, ist auch ganz nice. Ja, wunderbar, dann war's das, sind wir durch. Yes. Letzte Frage, letztes Kommentar irgendwas. Nein, ich möchte sagen vielen Dank, dass ihr hier wart. Das war sehr sehr cool. Sehr coole Folge, hat sehr viel Spaß gemacht. Ich glaub, Jan schließt sich da einfach mit an. Ich hab auch Spaß gehabt. Ja, danke, dass wir hier sein durften. Ich hoffe alle Zuhörennen hatten sehr viel Spaß dabei. Bestimmt. Und dann wär's das von uns. Vielen Dank fürs Zuhören. Wunderbar. Und wenn ihr uns erreichen wollt, Feedback, Anmerkungen, Kritik, Rückfragen zu irgendwelchen Drogen, nur den legalen. Factorio. Dann immer gerne an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder ihr hinterlasst Kommentare auf den Social Media Kanälen, wo ihr uns findet oder überall da, wo ihr unseren Podcast hört und bis bald. Tschau, tschau, macht's gut. Tschüssi. 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Mein Dave, als ich heute Morgen hier reingekommen bin, hast Du unten bei uns in der Alm im Meetingraum gesessen und wilde Tai Chi Übungen gemacht. Was hast Du da getan?\n\nSpeaker 1: Tai Chi Übungen tatsächlich. Das ist mein Morgenritual und dann habe ich aber auch noch natürlich die Apple Vision Pro aufgesetzt und 'n bisschen Tiny Finn gespielt. Ah, okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: So einen Zufall aber auch, wir haben nämlich heute die Macher von Tiny Finns gesehen. Ach was,\n\nSpeaker 1: ja, ist verrückt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wirklich, So Zufall. Wo sind sie? Wo sind sie? Sitzen dir genau gegenüber. Hallo Robin, hallo Sebi.\n\nHi. Hi. Ihr seid das Studio Detached aus Offenbach, richtig? Wunderbar. Also nicht Offenbach, aber wunderbar, dass ihr da seid?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ja, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh, direkt am Anfang der Hate, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also ich hab ja in Frankfurt studiert und mein Statistikprofessor hat so gefühlt jede Vorlesung damit angefangen mit, was ist das Schönste an. Offen macht der Blick nach Frankfurt und\n\nSpeaker 3: so, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, aber das ist\n\nSpeaker 2: ja Klassiker\n\nSpeaker 0: macht sich. Klassiker. Offen macht sich.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, da\n\nSpeaker 0: können wir vielleicht auch gleich noch mal, also finde ich wirklich von der Start up Szene können wir vielleicht auch noch mal drüber sprechen. Aber schön, dass ihr auf alle Fälle hier seid. Wir wollten nämlich heute mal ein bisschen über Game Development sprechen. Wir kommen ja auch aus dem Game Development und wir fanden das mal besonders interessant über VR Development im Speziellen zu sprechen und ihr wart ja schon mal bei uns auf einem About Design Event und habt da Tiny Fins vorgestellt. Und weil das so cool war, dachten wir, das ist bestimmt auch für alle Leute da draußen interessant, die leider nicht zu uns kommen konnten und den Talk hören konnten und deshalb sprechen wir hier noch mal darüber.\n\nVielleicht bevor wir da ins Detail sprechen, wie seid ihr überhaupt in den VR Zaubertrank gefallen? Was hat euch da inspiriert, mit eurem ganzen Studio im Prinzip in diese Richtung zu gehen und wo kommt ihr eigentlich her?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, gut. Also generell wie a, ich würd's eigentlich größer fassen, eher so dieser Bereich Augmented Reality, Mixed Reality, weil also Virtual Reality würden wir jetzt klassischerweise als das bezeichnen, dann sagen wir, Du hast die Vision Pro auf und Du siehst wirklich gar nichts mehr von der Umgebung, Du bist komplett in der virtuellen Welt. Jetzt bei unserem Spiel Tiny Fins, wo man einfach so Fische durch den Raum steuern kann, siehst Du ja noch die echte Welt, also das wär dann eher so Mixed Reality. Wir haben schon vor, als wir angefangen haben, vor fünf Jahren, also als wir DITEC gegründet haben, da hatten wir mit Augmented Reality losgelegt und das war lustigerweise auch von Anfang an hatten wir so geträumt, oh mein Gott, wenn Apple die Brille raus bringt, das wird der Moment, dann wird a a groß. Ich weiß jetzt noch nicht, ob a a wirklich groß jetzt ist, aber das war son bisschen der Startpunkt, wirklich halt a a auf dem Handy.\n\nUnd es war schon immer für mich, ich glaub die Magie ist für mich in über die Jahre völlig son kleines bisschen flöten gegangen, aber einfach dieser Moment zu zeigen, hey, ich hab hier 'n Modell, das steht jetzt auf meinem Tisch. Auf einmal ist diese Brücke zwischen digitaler Welt und der echten Welt auf einmal geschlossen. Du zeigst es Leuten, die sind begeistert und dieser Moment ist halt einfach richtig cool und den, ja, versucht man auch noch mit der Vision Pro halt immer noch wieder zu capturen, so ungefähr.\n\nSpeaker 3: Also grundsätzlich ist es auch so, also man hat ja dann diese ganzen Sci Fi Filme im Kopf, Du hast dann irgendwie Iron Man, der mit seinem Javis Interface irgendwelche Hologramme in die Luft steigen lässt und alles Mögliche. Du kannst quasi, AR ist, glaube ich, das, was was an Technik am ehesten, an an Magie oder so was rankommt, wie Du dich wie Du dir selbst quasi Superkräfte verleihen kannst. Und lustigerweise, wir haben damals aber richtig low gestartet, also als wir mit detecht angefangen haben, da sind wir erst mal ins Face Filter Business eingestiegen. Also wir haben sie quasi für Instagram Snapchat. Snapchat.\n\nGenau und hatten dann aber auch tatsächlich so unseren ersten bisschen größeren Kunden, da haben wir dann Facefilter für Gustavo Gusto gemacht, also die Pizza Marke, ich weiß nicht. Ja. Und genau ja, so so haben wir dann quasi, so sind wir dann in das ganze AR Thema eingestiegen. Eigentlich kommen wir ja aus dem interaktiven Medienbereich, also wir haben Interaktiv Media Design studiert in Dieburg und grundsätzlich Das ist so\n\nSpeaker 0: in der Nähe von Darmstadt, für alle, die da draußen jetzt vielleicht nicht die Burg kennen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich kann das auch nicht. Ich hab's auch vermutlich irgendwo in Hessen.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja. Genau irgendwo in Hessen, genau und Mixed Reality grundsätzlich oder interaktive Anwendungen, das muss gar nicht auch unbedingt mit 'ner Brille oder mit 'nem Handy zu tun haben. Also das kann zum Beispiel auch, wer noch die alten Playstation Games kennt, wo Du vor 'ner Kamera stehst und irgendwelche Scheiben putzt\n\nSpeaker 1: oder I Toy, ja. I Toy, oh grandios.\n\nSpeaker 3: Genau, das fällt da auch voll rein. Also es ist quasi nicht gar nicht mal nur unbedingt Smartphone oder Brillen bezogen. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, so seid ihr also zu VR gekommen. Wie kommt VR zu euch? Also jetzt seid ihr ja eine Agentur und seid ihr auch auf irgendwie Auftragsarbeiten wahrscheinlich angewiesen so. Wie wie interessieren sich die Leute da draußen dafür?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also, ich mein, das meiste, was wir machen, wirklich dann so was Auftragsarbeiten angeht und dann VRMR ist einfach wirklich so Messekontext meistens. Also, die Sache halt immer noch heutzutage ist ja, wer hat eine VR Brille? Also ich mein, ihr kennt wahrscheinlich Leute, hier und da gibt's Leute, aber die meisten haben keine. True. So.\n\nUnd das heißt, also und die meisten Leuten, wenn man denen eine VR Brille aufsetzt, ist es immer noch ihr erstes Mal, also auch auch heute noch. Das heißt für so Kontexte wie eine Messe, wo Du einfach, wo Besucher hinkommen können und dann eine Brille aufbekommen und dann sozusagen die Hardware schon gegeben ist, ist der perfekte Kontext und das holt die Leute natürlich auf 'nem anderen Level noch mal ab. Also, wenn man das jetzt zum Beispiel vergleicht mit 'ner Powerpoint Präsentation, also Du hast zwei D, Du hast einfach 'n paar Slides, hast 'n Perfects, das Ding zum Beispiel, das Auto, in drei D vor dir zu sehen, ist natürlich 'n ganz anderes Level.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Ja. Ist das was, wo ihr so aus UX Sicht son bisschen darauf achten müsstet, weil wenn ich mir jetzt son Produkt von euch wie Tinyfans angucke, ja, was ja für Leute gemacht ist, die zu Hause 'n eigenes Headset haben, Marke jetzt erst mal egal so, ja, aber die die kennen sich son bisschen in dem Space vielleicht schon aus und und wenn Du das auf der Messe das erste Mal aufbekommst, dann weißt Du ja wahrscheinlich so gar nichts darüber. Also Ja. Die Leute wissen, ich muss da 'n Controller benutzen, hab ich da eine Maus in der Hand, mach ich das mit Händen und und wenn ja, wie?\n\nDa musst Du ja wahrscheinlich eine eine sehr viel andere Anwendung gestalten, wenn Du's jetzt für den in Anführungszeichen Heimbedarf machst. Einhundert Prozent.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also es ist dann halt wirklich so, dass man versucht vielleicht auch Interaktionen son bisschen zu vermeiden fast schon oder die wirklich extrem primitiv zu halten und auch, dass man einfach guckt, dass es gleich losgeht. Also Tiny Fince startet ja zum Beispiel mit 'nem Tutorial, Du kriegst erst mal 'n Spiel beigebracht. Du willst einfach diesen Step willst Du vermeiden, Du ziehst die Brille auf und mehr oder weniger los geht's und Du bist einfach nur Zuschauer. Also bei einer Anwendung zum Beispiel, da haben wir halt auch 'n Moderator dabei, also es wär dann son Multiplayer sozusagen. Es laufen mehrere Leute drum rum und der Moderator führt die Leute dann da durch und die können dann hier und da mal was machen, aber halt nicht die ganze Zeit und vor allem auch nichts Komplexes, was jetzt irgendwie krasse Gesten erfordert oder sowas.\n\nSpeaker 1: War das dieses Partyspiel oder welches Spiel war das? Wie\n\nSpeaker 2: meinst Du?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ihr habt ja so son Partyspiel, glaube ich, hab ich auf eurer Webseite gesehen. War das das mit dem Moderator oder ist das was anderes?\n\nSpeaker 3: Nicht direkt, also also es AR Party war war quasi einen Showcase, den wir ganz am Anfang mal gestartet hatten. Da hatten wir unseren ersten fetten Auftrag, da hatten wir quasi lustigerweise, das war was für Honda, da haben wir auch gar nichts in Richtung AR gemacht, sondern es war es war es ging nur Prototyping und dann haben wir danach gesagt, komm, dann machen wir jetzt noch mal 'n geiles eigenes Ding, wir machen jetzt AR Party als Multiplayer, son bisschen Mario Party like\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, man.\n\nSpeaker 3: Und haben dann aber da vier Monate reingesteckt und waren dann an 'nem Punkt, wo wir gesagt haben, dass das kostet uns jetzt noch mal mindestens vier Monate, das Release ready zu machen. Wir starten jetzt 'n Kickstarter und der ist leider 'n bisschen gefloppt und deswegen ist AR Party einen sehr geiler Showcase, der uns mitunter 'n paar richtig coole Kunden eingetragen hat und auch die Apple Vision Pro, da kommen wir vielleicht später noch mal zu\n\nSpeaker 0: und genau ja. Also ich muss sagen, es hat mich 'n bisschen betroffen gemacht, so. Ich hab nämlich in der Recherche für die Folgen natürlich auch so eure Webseite durchforstet und hab auch eher Party gefunden, stand da so, ah, Kickstarter, direkt auf Kickstarter, ja, da werfen wir 'n bisschen Geld hinterher, das sieht irgendwie ganz cool aus. Und dann hab ich's nicht mehr gefunden.\n\nSpeaker 3: No. Ja, das war vor vier Jahren oder so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also wir wollten fünfundzwanzigtausend, wir haben irgendwie tausendfünfhundert bekommen oder so. Ja, aber es war auch auch Mist. Es war auch wirklich nicht so 'n oh mein Gott, das ist jetzt unser Lebensprojekt, es war eher so, sollen wir weitermachen oder nicht, wir lassen Kickstarter entscheiden. Ja. So und am Ende war das Projekt trotzdem einfach so wertvoll.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, jetzt hat das mit dem Kickstarter vielleicht nicht gut funktioniert, aber ihr habt ja trotzdem dann mit Tiny Fins ein eigenes Produkt gemacht. Richtig, richtig. So, was war da anders? Das ist, also warum habt ihr das bei tinyfins so durchgezogen? Wieso hat es da funktioniert und wieso bei AR Party nicht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Gut, wir haben's bei tinyfins durchgezogen, weil wir das Dev Kit von der Vision Pro hatten.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ist ein legitimer Grund, ja, kann man ja sagen.\n\nSpeaker 3: Und der Scope natürlich. Also lustigerweise haben wir quasi, wir hatten erst vor AR Party zu machen für die Vision Pro.\n\nSpeaker 1: Stimmt.\n\nSpeaker 3: Und haben dann angefangen, Minigames zu prototypen für für AR Party, also quasi, Du hast immer eine Spielrunde würfeln und dann kommt Minispiel alle gegeneinander und dann geht's weiter und da haben wir halt, wir wollten halt nicht einfach die Minispiele recyceln, die wir schon hatten fürs Handy. Das war dann irgendwie uns 'n bisschen zu wack und deswegen haben wir dann gesagt, wir wollen was, was halt geil auf der Vision funktioniert mit Gestensteuerung und mit mit voll Immersive vielleicht auch und dann haben wir halt einfach angefangen wild zu prototypen und soll ich's noch mal herleiten, wie wir von AR Party quasi zu Tiny Fins gekommen sind, genau?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, warum nicht?\n\nSpeaker 3: Wir haben dann quasi how den Lukas geprototyped sozusagen und hatten dann quasi einfach 'n virtuellen Hammer an der Hand und haben halt dich rum sind Nägel im Raum erschienen, die Du in den Boden hauen konntest und uns ist aufgefallen, dass das einfach keinen Spaß macht, dass das nicht befriedigend ist, weil der Hammer hat keinen Widerstand und das Hand Tracking ist zwar sau gut, aber nicht so gut, dass der Hammer wirklich flüssig an deiner Hand klebt. Das heißt, wenn Du 'n schnellen Schlag gemacht hast, dann war der Hammer schon so also quasi ist sie son bisschen in der Luft hängen geblieben und dann nachgezogen und dann ist ist Seppi auf die geile Idee gekommen das Ganze son bisschen zu isen, sodass der Hammer hinter deiner Hand her schwebt quasi, also dass der interpoliert zwischen den zwischen den Punkten und das gab direkt son der Hammer schwebt so der Hand hinterher Gefühl und das war schon das war schon echt fett. Da haben\n\nSpeaker 0: sie son bisschen wie Thor gefühlt willst Du sagen.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, nee, eigentlich fast eher wie, wen nehm ich als Beispiel, wie Katara von Legend The Last Air Bänder. Oh. Quasi, es hatte son bisschen son wasserbändigen Vibe, genau, wo wir bei Tai Chi Tai Chi haben wir auch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, definitiv. Bei Tai infiziert man das wieder. Ja, ja, auf jeden Fall. Ich bin\n\nSpeaker 1: nicht sehr unfähig dabei gefühlt beim Wasserbändigen, aber es hat sich\n\nSpeaker 3: da da dran angefühlt. Genau und dann haben wir gesagt, gut, was ist, wenn das jetzt kein Hammer ist, sondern was macht denn irgendwie Sinn? Was schwimmt denn irgendwie so in der Luft rum? Ja, 'n Fischschwarm wär vielleicht ganz cool und so ist dann quasi Tiny Finns entstanden. Und wir konnten es dann durchziehen, weil's einfach 'n viel kleineren Scoup hat als AR Party.\n\nAlso es ist wirklich, weiß ich nicht, 'n Zwanzigstel.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber wir hatten am Anfang auch wirklich debattiert, wird jetzt Tiny Fins, das hieß dann ja noch Tiny Fins nicht, wird es jetzt 'n Minispiel von AR Party oder machen wir 'n eigenes Ding draus? Und dann wars irgendwann so, ey, wir haben bis Ende Januar Zeit, da wird 'n eigenes Ding draus und das war die richtige Entscheidung.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Spielt da auch sone Überlegung mit rein, dass natürlich Multiplayer Titel auf sone VR Plattform generell noch mal schwieriger sind? Also es ist ja schwierig genug, eine Person zu finden, die eine Brille hat und noch viel schwieriger zwei Personen zu finden, noch viel schwieriger zwei Personen, die im Zweifelsfall im selben Raum sind oder oder wie auch immer.\n\nSpeaker 1: Unmöglich. Na ja, also Aus auf Konferenzen. Wie viel\n\nSpeaker 0: VR Multiplayer hast Du denn schon gespielt, Dave? Und Du hast eine Brille?\n\nSpeaker 1: Null, aber ich leide auch super an Motion Sickness. Das ist so richtig problematisch. Mhm. Okay. Aber sieht immer lustig aus, wenn Leute das spielen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, aber das ist auf jeden Fall mit reingeflossen in den Gedankengang. Und grade beim Release war's dann natürlich klar, dass der Release erst mal klein sein wird. War, würd ich sagen, aber nicht der Hauptgrund am Ende des Tages. Also, wir wollten halt auch einfach 'n geilen Showcase wieder draus machen oder irgendwas, was einfach an sich geil ist. Und ich find dann auch immer son bisschen, gut, das wär dann vielleicht für weniger Leute, aber für die, also es wär dann wahrscheinlich der einzige Multiplayer Titel gewesen beim Launch.\n\nAlso es wär auch wieder anders interessant. Ja,\n\nSpeaker 0: ja, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wobei wir gemerkt haben, wir waren zumindest beim Launch gab's praktisch, es gab superwenige andere Games und praktisch keine, die halt auch irgendwie die Brille ausgenutzt hatten. Also wirklich so dieses Ganze mit der Raumerkennung, wie die Hand getrackt wird, das alles. Also deswegen, wir hatten schon genug eigentlich Alleinstellungsmerkmale dann am Ende des Tages.\n\nSpeaker 3: Das war fast schon lächerlich. Also wir haben dann nach Release mal dreißig Apps runtergeladen, zu gucken, was macht die Konkurrenz und das wir waren wirklich, das war wirklich traurig teilweise. Also das ist inzwischen ganz anders, also inzwischen sind die gut nachgezogen, aber ganz am Anfang gab's echt fast keine guten Apps für die Vision Pro Und für uns gab's auch noch so einen magischen Moment. Wir waren dann nämlich, also Apple hat 'n Entwicklerstudio in München. Mhm.\n\nDa kann man sich anmelden, da kann man hinkommen und da sind auch da sind auch Geräte vor Ort. Und da haben wir dann quasi mal verschiedene Prototypen mitgenommen. Also wir hatten zum Beispiel gerade, wir hatten son paar Sachen auch für die für AR Party ge Prototyped, also Slinkshot zum Beispiel, also Du hast son eine Schnur spannt sich zwischen deinem Zeigefinger und Daumen und Du kannst quasi mit mit dem anderen Finger 'n Korken verschießen auf kleine Monster, die auf dich zufliegen und halt einfach nur diesen Prototypen, wo Du son Haufen fliegender kleiner Fische, die einfach deiner Hand gefolgt sind. Und das kam dann bei den Leuten von Apple so extrem gut an, dass wir dann ziemlich schnell die Leute mit dem Fish Game waren. Und das da wurden dann Kollegen hergeholt und ey guckt euch das mal an und keine Ahnung und das war für uns dann so ah okay, ich glaub wir haben da was was ganz Cooles.\n\nSpeaker 1: War das eigentlich quasi auch eure Eintrittskarte, warum ihr dieses Dev Kit bekommen habt oder hattet ihr das schon vorher? Also wie war eigentlich son bisschen son Schritt zurück? Wie kam's überhaupt zu dieser Kooperation mit Apple und dass ihr quasi auch die Apple Vision Pro vorher hattet?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also man konnte sich da drauf bewerben, einfach online, hat da praktisch son Formular ausgefüllt, aber was wir da dann vorgestellt hatten, war eher Party sozusagen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und ich vermute, also beziehungsweise wir haben dann ja auch mit den Leuten geredet so am Ende des Tages, gab son paar Gründe, warum das geklappt hat, würde ich sagen. Also der eine ist, ich glaub, es war in dem Fall gut, im Game zu sein, weil also die Apple Vision Pro hat sich schon verkauft und auch immer noch ist son, ja, es ist son Businesstools, son Homeoffice Ding. Und ich glaub, viele, die sich da beworben haben, waren eben dann einfach irgendwelche Apps und so weiter. Ja. Und das hat dann natürlich geholfen, die wollten eine Palette abdecken, die wollen einfach wie 'n Computer, das sollte es soll Entertainment, Gaming, da soll alles dabei sein, deswegen war das 'n Vorteil.\n\nMhm. Das andere war, glaube ich, wirklich einfach, wer aufmerksam die Keynote geguckt hat, hat festgestellt, was will denn Apple promoten, was ist denen wichtig an diesem Gerät? Und das haben wir halt einfach hervorgehoben und gezeigt so, wir verstehen, was eure Vision davon ist und ja, ich glaub, das hat auch noch geholfen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Okay, wenn wir vielleicht mal zwei, drei Schritte zurück machen davon, wir haben ja eingangs gesagt, wir machen ja auch Spiele, aber wir machen sehr viel andere Spiele. So, unsere Spiele sind, ich wollt grad sagen flach, aber das klingt so bisschen abwertend, unsere Spiele sind zweidimensional. Ja, ja, ja. So kann man's, glaube ich, sagen, ja.\n\nUnd ich hätte jetzt, ich hab auch nicht den technischen Hintergrund dafür, aber wenn mir jetzt jemand sagen würde, Jan, mach doch mal son Prototyp für sone VR App. Ich hätte keine Ahnung, wo ich anfangen muss. Ja. So, wo fange ich denn an?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also man sollte wahrscheinlich, wenn man keine Ahnung hat, in 'ner Game Engine starten, so generell. Weil eine Game Engine bietet einem praktisch direkt 'n Platz, wo Du irgendwie, Du kannst Objekte reinziehen, zum Beispiel 'n Würfel und der wird irgendwie dargestellt. Und da ist am Ende des Tages bei den meisten Plattformen dann fast sogar son bisschen egal, ob das jetzt einfach auf deinem Screen ist oder in VR, weil ja die drei-d-Informationen schon da ist. Ja, wir machen die meiste Arbeit mit Unity. Ich würd sagen, im Game Engine Bereich gibt's drei große Player, Unreal, Godot, Unreal.\n\nUnreal ist der, da gehst Du hin, wenn Du High End Grafik willst, PS5, Xbox, krasse PCs, die haben das beste Lightning und so weiter. Unit ist vor allem eigentlich so im Mobile Game Bereich ziemlich groß und diese ganze Schiene auch a a wie a und Gedo ist halt jetzt grad noch son bisschen so dieser Indie Game Player Open Source, also eigentlich auch superspannend. Ich hoffe, da da wird noch mehr draus, weil eigentlich Open Source halt eigentlich supercool ist. Mhm. Aber bis jetzt, wenn man guckt, was da rausgekommen ist, vor allem viele, ja, viel 2D Kram, viele Computerspieltitel, nicht so, nicht viel auf anderen Plattformen.\n\nMhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und ist es dann wirklich so, dass wenn ich jetzt, okay, ich starte in, dass es sich von klassischem, ne, Development für so normale Screens dann kaum unterscheidet, weil er der einzige Unterschied in Anführungszeichen das Kameraplacement ist, was Du vielleicht, ne, bei 'nem klassischen Titel son bisschen starrer hast und jetzt bist Du die\n\nSpeaker 2: Kamera? Nee, würde ich nicht sagen. Also die Engine, in der Du arbeitest, bestimmt halt schon viel wie der komplette Workflow auch ist. Also wenn, typischerweise finde ich, wenn Du jetzt 'n Webprojekt hast zum Beispiel, dann hast Du einfach deinen Coedeitor, dann machst Du irgendwie MPM run build oder irgendwas und dann geht's los, dann dann öffnet sich was. Inunity ist so, Du könntest komplette Games bauen, ohne 'n Coedeitor überhaupt aufzuhaben, theoretisch.\n\nAlso die bieten auch, also allein durch Animationen, die Du machen kannst. Du kannst Timelines bauen, das ist dann praktisch wie in sonem Videoschnittprogramm. Du kannst auch Visual Scripting machen. Die der Unit Editor bietet schon oder ist einfach sone Riesenplattform für sich. Also wir machen natürlich viel mit Skripte, also man kann sich vorstellen, man hat da eine Szene und in diesen Szenen sind game Objekts.\n\nAlso klassischerweise wär das zum Beispiel der Player, der läuft rum, dann gibt's irgendwelche Gegner, die laufen rum. Es gibt zum Beispiel Kisten, die können zerschlagen werden. Das sind alles einzelne Objekts und auf denen sind dann Skripte drauf, die dann das Verhalten bestimmen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und wie wichtig ist da die Plattform selbst tatsächlich? Weil wenn ich jetzt klassisches Game Development mach, ja, und ich zieh jetzt auf Smartphones zum Beispiel ab, dann ist er für mich in der Entwicklung in Anführungszeichen relativ egal, Dave kann da gerne reinspringen, wenn ich was Falsches sag, relativ egal, ob das am Ende auf 'nem iOS oder auf 'nem Android Gerät läuft, so, ja. Oder wenn ich jetzt auf 'nem für 'n Desktop Rechner irgendwie konzeptioniere, dann ist es am Ende auch egal, ob das irgendwie 'n Rechner von von diesem Jahr oder vom letzten Jahr, ne, sagen es nicht so super anspruchsvoll ist irgendwie von von Titel her, aber jetzt sind ja, gerade weil diese Plattformen vielleicht auch noch so relativ jung sind, sind sie auch noch son bisschen sehr unterschiedlich, ja? Ich guck mir eine Meta Quest zwei an, da gibt's nur ganz schlechtes, ja. Ich guck mir eine Apple Vision Pro an, die hat keine Controller, die macht man irgendwie nur mit Händen.\n\nIch versuch dann mit Händen irgendwie an der Meta Quest drei was zu machen, das irgendwie nicht ganz so geil, ja. Wie wie sehr limitiert das einen so im Entwicklungsalltag oder wie sehr muss man sich dieser Plattformunterschiede bewusst sein?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also es ist, würde ich schon sagen, sehr unterschiedlich, weil jetzt zum Beispiel, wenn Du einfach 'n klassisches Game machst, sagen wir mal kurz, nicht VR oder so was und Du dann kannst Du's deployen aufm Computer, aufm Mac, aufm Handy und es wird wahrscheinlich laufen. Also dann musst Du natürlich den Input irgendwie anpassen, bei dem einen hast Du Touchscreen, bei dem anderen vielleicht Controller, bei dem anderen Maustaste, aber das wird mehr oder weniger laufen. Was man dann natürlich gucken muss, ist gerade bei Games, irgendwann bei großen Games wird man optimieren müssen und da hat natürlich 'n Handy eine ganz andere Anforderung wie eine Konsole. Wenn wir jetzt auf VR gehen, also jetzt zum Beispiel normales Computerspiel auf VR supporten, ist es noch mal 'n Level krasser einfach. Also da wird wahrscheinlich auch, Du kannst einfach die VR Kamera schon, also die VR Brille als Kamera betrachten, die dann da durchgeht, das funktioniert schon.\n\nAber jetzt zum Beispiel die Metaquest bringt son ganz anderes Bündel an mit als jetzt die Vision pro. Aber jetzt so ganz konkret, wir haben von der Vision pro, wir haben's nur für die Vision pro entwickelt, auf die Metaquest geportet innerhalb von drei Tagen. Also Okay. Es ist schon, es geht schon auch gut. Also man kann achtzig, neunzig Prozent behalten.\n\nAlso da ist, das ist für mich eine der absoluten Hauptstärken von Unity halt wirklich, Du entwickelst in dieser einen Plattform und kannst es mehr oder weniger auf fast alles, was es gibt deployen, also sogar auch Web Web G l. Mhm. Also\n\nSpeaker 1: Korrigier mich, wenn ich da falschlieg, aber also ich hatte meine meine Masterarbeit auch in diesem Themenbereich damals gemacht, war sone Mixed Reality Anwendung auf der Hololens. Und da hatte ich irgendwie im Kopf, es gab diese Plug ins, die glaube ich hatte Open XR oder so war das. Ja. Also irgendwie so diese AR Foundation, die irgendwie so ganz viele Sachen schon mit sich mitbringen, Also irgendwie Tracking von deinem Device, was für Gestensteuerung und Du so hast, Voice Commands. Das hilft euch wahrscheinlich dabei massiv auch aus, oder das dann verschiedene Schnittstellen quasi zu bedienen auf unterschiedlichen Genau, genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also jetzt ganz konkret zum Beispiel, wenn wir jetzt im Mobile Bereich sind, also Mobile AR, es gibt diese AR Foundation, wie Du gesagt hast.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und das wird dann, es gibt auf Google gibt's AR Core, auf Apple gibt's AR Kit und dieses AR Foundation ist der Rapper halt sozusagen drum rum. Genau. Man merkt dann aber halt schon trotzdem konkret die Unterschiede. Also ein Ding, wo wir immer wieder reinlaufen, was uns auch echt krass frustriert ist auf Apple, das Image Tracking. Das ist, ich, das ist bewusst von denen limitiert, so dass es furchtbar ist.\n\nAlso, man kann sich vorstellen, wenn ich jetzt hier 'n Marke, also es kann irgendein Bild sein aufm Tisch und ich möchte mit meinem Smartphone tracken, das wird es nur einmal pro Sekunde aktualisieren auf iOS jetzt. Das ist einfach so eingestellt. Wiederum ist so das das Plaintracking, also ich will einfach irgend 'n Objekte im Raum platzieren, unabhängig von 'nem Marker, ist auf iOS besser. Mhm. Und das sind dann schon so Sachen, also das verändert jetzt nicht konkret sozusagen, wie Du damit entwickelst.\n\nDu behandelst iOS und Android dann meistens gleich, aber das Ergebnis kann schon drastisch unterschiedlich sein, ja.\n\nSpeaker 3: Und grade, was Du machen willst, also es ist schon eine Designentscheidung von Apple, weil das würde, also technisch wär das total easy. Also Du willst ja eigentlich, wenn Du 'n Image Marker hast, dann willst Du eigentlich den rumwedeln und Du willst, dass das drei-d-Objekt an diese Marker klebt. Das ist ja dieser magische Effekt quasi und wenn Du aber quasi immer die Hand bewegst und das Ding ruckelt dann so hinterher, das ist dann, ich weiß nicht genau, warum das jetzt so gemacht wird, aber genau. Das ist\n\nSpeaker 0: vielleicht einfach da auch teilweise eine Designentscheidung von der Plattform, weil man halt sagen wird, okay, dieses dieses Cluster, was so, ich sag mal, ganz frühes a a ja schon war, ja, das wollen wir vielleicht einfach gar nicht und wir quasi diesen Use Case, indem wir ihn gar nicht performant ermöglichen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaub genau, das ist es. Ja. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Leider. Nicht, dass die Leute hier mit QR Codes in der Gegend rumwedeln und dann irgendwie Sachen damit platzieren, das wollen wir nicht, sondern wir wollen das halt noch viel mehr immersive sozusagen haben und überlegt euch halt was cooles Neues dafür.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Ja. Mhm. Wobei wir einfach festgestellt haben, das ist irgendwie so dieses lustige. Also Du hast komplett recht, so dieses AR Marker basiert ist halt in dem Sinne Old School, aber das ist oft halt viel magischer trotzdem noch.\n\nAlso stell dir vor dieser klassic Use Case, der irgendwann existieren wird, Du hast halt irgendwie dein Handy oder deine deine Brille und bist im Supermarkt und jede Verpackung kann ihr eigenes Portal sein, wo irgendwas drin passiert oder Du kriegst Infos da.\n\nSpeaker 0: Viel zu spießig, stell dir doch mal vor, Du spielst so Magic oder Pokémon oder so Trading Card. Ja, ich bin im Supermarkt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich bin\n\nSpeaker 0: im Supermarkt. Du hast diesen Fisch vor dir und auf einmal stehen da halt deine Viecher so rum. Ja. Und wenn Du so eine Karte spielst, betteln\n\nSpeaker 1: die sich\n\nSpeaker 0: halt auch wirklich. Ja, Jogio,\n\nSpeaker 2: ist klasse.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hat hattet ihr das aber nicht sogar mit mit mit dieser Supermarktidee? Irgendwas diese Milchverpackung hatte ich im Kopf von eurer Website, oder? Wo Du dann die Milch irgendwie angeschaut hast und dann hast Du die Zusammensetzung irgendwie ballaststoffreich, Protein bla bla\n\nSpeaker 2: bla und\n\nSpeaker 0: so was.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wir haben denen das gepitcht. Wir haben's am Ende nicht gemacht, es war 'n Prototyp, aber ja, genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und den Prototyp fanden die auch nicht gut.\n\nSpeaker 3: Doch, den fanden die gut, aber irgendwie hatten da war, das war für Fly damals und das ist, also es war so der nächste Step in unserer AR Entwicklung, könnte man sagen, also Face Filter und dann haben wir gedacht, na gut, was ist denn ein praktischer Use Case, den den auch Companys geil finden, ah okay, AR Marketing. Mhm. Genau und da haben wir dann angefangen, allen möglichen Marken, die wir interessant fanden, Ideen zu pitchen und das war eine davon an Fly damals, die sind da noch gerade frisch aufm Markt gewesen und hatten echt gar kein Budget. Ja. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und dazu kommt natürlich auch, dass im Einzelhandel Package Design halt auch nicht alle zwei Wochen angepasst und neu gemacht wird.\n\nSpeaker 1: True. True, True, True.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich glaub, da war wirklich, und das ist auch immer noch so die größte Hürde, ist einfach dieses, wie kommst Du denn bis zu dem Schritt, wo die AR Experience eigentlich losgeht? Weil die Sache wär dann, okay, ich hab jetzt mein Handy, gut, das hat jeder dabei, das ist schon mal 'n guter Schritt, aber dann, ich hol's raus, öffne die Kamera, scan QR Code, lande dann in auf der Webseite oder in Instagram oder so was und halte es dann auf die Verpackung. Das sind so viele Steps.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nicht komplett. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, das ist dann eher so, die Idee funktioniert dann, wenn wir alle AR Brillen aufhaben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber das war's vielleicht 'n guter Hook, mal über Web XR zu sprechen. Mhm. Weil das ist, ist das nicht genau das Versprechen dahinter zu sagen, Du kannst so diese AR oder VR Experience auch in deinem Browser laufen lassen und brauchst keine spezielle App oder irgendwas zu installieren, sondern das geht halt einfach los, so wie heutzutage halt auch 'n Video einfach losgehen kann auf deiner Webseite.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ja, nee, das ist auf jeden Fall richtig. Wir haben kein richtiges Web AR Projekt jemals gemacht, aber jedes Mal, also wir sind schon ganz oft davor, weil es jedes Mal so ist, das löst ja genau dieses Problem. So, hey, man kann einfach loslegen. Und dann dann beginnt's jedes Mal von neuem, okay, dann recherchieren wir mal, was aktuell da so geht. Und dann kommt man immer wieder zum Punkt, ah, es gibt dieses Framework, das nennt sie die Aith Wall, das wurd von Lyantic auch gekauft, also die, die Pokémon Go gemacht haben und das ist the way to go.\n\nDas ist wirklich das Beste, das heißt, damit hast Du supergutes Tracking und so weiter und dann guckst Du auf den Preis und dann ist es irgendwie, boah, ich will nichts falsches sagen, dreitausend Euro im Monat oder so was. Absolut. Und dann ist halt so, ja, dann ist die Option wieder raus. Ja. Und viele von den anderen Frameworks sind wirklich dann so, das Tracking ist schlecht, die Performance ist schlecht, also so so richtig so Fehler oder Probleme, wo Du merkst, ah, das steckt einfach noch in den Kinderschuhen.\n\nAber das\n\nSpeaker 0: heißt, das sind so Sachen, die man sich tatsächlich selber noch angucken muss. Ich hätte jetzt erwartet, aber ich hab ja keine Ahnung, ne, ich würde ganz naiv rangehen, sagen okay, wenn ich dieses WebXR benutze, dann sind das ja genau die Sachen, die für mich gelöst sind, so dieses Tracking und Verhalten im Raum und sowas, aber das muss ich alles noch\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaube, es ist gelöst für VR. Also das beobachte ich aber nur so von der Seitenlinie, das haben wir nicht selbst entwickelt, aber es gibt VR Web Apps, die funktionieren gut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: So, ich glaub auch, weil das son bisschen einfacher ist, also dieses ganze Tracking hinzukriegen, performant im Browser, also ist dann son Slam Algorithmus, der ja erkennen muss, wie Du Du dein Handy in der Umgebung bewegst, ist superschwierig und wird am Ende nur gescheit funktionieren, wenn halt die Hardware Hersteller, wenn Apple, wenn Google das wirklich da da unterstützt und die, ja, kochen eigentlich son bisschen ihre eigene Suppe. Also eigene Möglichkeit, die son bisschen mehr am kommen, ist App Clips. Also wenn euch das was sagt, ist praktisch, man kann eine App im App Store releasen, aber wer will eine komplette App runterladen? Das ist immer relativ groß und so weiter. App Clips sind sozusagen, die kannst Du, da klickst Du aufn Link im Browser und es öffnet eine kleine Version der App direkt sozusagen.\n\nMhm. Du kannst dann noch die volle Version runterladen später, aber es ist relativ sieben, das ist klick, klick, Du bist in 'ner richtigen App, hast native Performance und so weiter und das ist son bisschen, ich würd sagen, aktuell der interessanteste Approach, wenn man versucht, also es ist nicht wirklich Web a a dann, aber es das ist the way, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, vielleicht noch mal zurückzukommen zu der Entwicklung. Da hast Du ja gesagt, okay, ihr macht da vier Millionenity und dementsprechend ähnlich ist es vielleicht auch zu Clusterer Entwicklungsarbeit, ja? Ja. Aber wie unterscheidet es sich denn so später im Zyklus, wenn ich jetzt an sowas wie QA und Debugging und sowas denke, ja? Also als ich das erste Mal Division Pro aufhatte, habe ich ganz viel Zeit in zum Beispiel den den Immersive Videos von Apple verbracht, ja, und hab so festgestellt, die kannst Du eigentlich beliebig oft gucken, weil Du immer was Neues entdeckst, weil dadurch, dass es halt son großes Sichtfeld hat und Du mal hier irgendwas gucken kannst und mal da was gucken kannst, kriegst Du halt nicht alles beim ersten Durchlauf sozusagen mit, ja?\n\nJa. Und ich würde mir vorstellen, dass es bei Spielen oder Anwendungen ja auch ähnlich sein kann, ja, wenn Tiny Fins jetzt rund dich herum entsteht, Ja. Dann ist es ja auch wahrscheinlich 'n bisschen aufwendiger, schwieriger, also im internen Testing alles auch mal anzugucken oder dann nach drei Durchläufe zu sagen, ah, da hinten diese Koralle, die steht irgendwie aufm Kopf, das ist mir gar nicht aufgefallen, weil ich hab die ganze Zeit in die andere Richtung geguckt, so, ja. Wie, was gibt's da noch so für Unterschiede oder was macht das vielleicht schwieriger oder anspruchsvoller? Also,\n\nSpeaker 2: ja, es ist schlimm. Also, es ist teilweise wirklich so, also man hat so diese neuen Ein Gefühl fürs Einschalten, das war die Ja, ja, ja. Also, das ist so, man denkt so, das hat alles magisch, das wird der Spaß des Lebens, aber dann ist halt eigentlich so, Du merkst es genau eigentlich, wie Du sagst und dann das Ding ist halt, ah, okay, Du hast die dann auf, Du entdeckst den Fehler, dann fix Du den Fehler und dann ist es halt wieder, okay, bilden, auf die Brille spielen, das ist 'n Prozess von zwei, drei Minuten. Mhm. Das ist halt so ätzend jedes Mal.\n\nAlso, wir versuchen natürlich das meiste im Editor sozusagen zu testen, aber das geht natürlich auch nur bis zum gewissen Grad. Also ich kann jetzt, ich kann schlecht im Editor testen wie wenn ich Fische durch meinen Raum schwimmen lasse, so weit kann der Editor das dann halt nicht simulieren. Also, wir hatten's dann so, dass man, wir haben in im Editor eine drei-d-Szene, wo wir 'n Raum hatten, wo wir dann eine eine drei-d-Ku hatten, wo der die den Fischen gefolgt ist sozusagen, nee, die Fische sind in der Kugel gefolgt. Und das hilft natürlich, so ganz offensichtliche Bugs zu fixen, aber ja, Du musstest dann doch immer wieder diesen Zyklus machen und das wird ätzend.\n\nSpeaker 3: Also was dabei hilft auf jeden Fall so Sachen, also klar, Du entdeckst unendlich neue Sachen dich rum und so könntest Du, glaube ich, auch unendlich neue Bugs finden oder Fehler. Was was dabei krass hilft, sind Prefabs, also quasi, dass Du in wie so wie so einzelne Pakete, so Vorlagen quasi vorbereitest und die dann auch immer gezielt bearbeitest. Also ist quasi, Du Du hast alles vorher mal durchgeguckt bevor Sport und dann geht's eigentlich nur dadurch drum noch, also Du hast natürlich dann 'n ganzen Raum, der erfasst wird und dann geht's noch darum halt, was heißt nur noch, aber auch darum einfach zu gucken, dass die Prefabs nicht ineinander spawnen, also nicht ineinander erscheinen und dass da alles schön verteilt ist und sowas, aber dass dann noch selbst Fehler in den drei D Modellen oder in diesen kleinen Unterteilen sind, die die sind dann schnell gefunden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber ich stell es mir auch schwierig vor, Edge Cases abzudecken, so, ja, also als jetzt, ich glaub, als ich Fruide Ninja gespielt hab das erste Mal so drei D, die machen das\n\nSpeaker 2: ja auch\n\nSpeaker 0: super cool, also sie machen son richtig schönes Plain Mapping von von dem Space dich rum und wenn Du dann so Obst zerhackst und da irgendwie die Spritzer fliegen, dann bleibt das wirklich so an der Stelle im Raum kleben, wo da im echten Raum auch irgendwie was ist. Und das hat stellenweise sehr gut funktioniert und stellenweise sehr schlecht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: So, und das stelle ich mir natürlich auch zu Debacken Hölle vor, weil Du musst ja für unterschiedliche Use Cases auch einfach unterschiedliche Räume haben, ne. Du musst, wenn Du es testen willst, Du brauchst mal 'n Tisch oder 'n Sofa, also unterschiedliche Formen und Gegebenheiten auch einfach in deinem physischen Raum, das irgendwie alles zu testen oder bei bei Tiny Fans, weiß nicht, wenn ihr verhindern wollt, dass die Fische durch die halbe Möbellandschaft irgendwie schwimmen, ja, dann müssen ja Möbel da sein zum Testen, so salopp gesagt, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, ja, das stimmt schon, aber ich finde, zum gewissen Grad ist man dann auch einfach irgendwann so halt, verlassen uns auf die Plattform, so. Wenn die Plattform halbwegs den Raum richtig erkennt, dann versucht man auch das Problem simpler zu machen. Also in Tiny find's zum Beispiel, die Brille ja, die kann Möbel erkennen, die kann sozusagen deinen ganzen Raum zu 'nem Mesh machen, aber wir betrachten eigentlich einfach nur die Bodenplänen Und dann das Problem ist dann viel leichteres und das wird dann wahrscheinlich überall irgendwie funktionieren.\n\nSpeaker 3: Wir haben auch tatsächlich, also wir haben festgestellt, 'n Office eignet sich ganz gut dazu, VR oder mRNA Experience zu zu testen, weil Du hast da eigentlich alles. Also wir haben wir einen großen Tisch im Office stehen, wir haben die wir haben die Stühle, wir haben höhenverstellbare Tische, wir haben verschiedene Arten von Wänden, Dachbalken, da ist eigentlich da ist eigentlich das meiste, was Du in 'nem Wohnzimmer auch hast, son bisschen abgedeckt und wir haben dann aber auch einfach, also wir haben 'n paar Sachen gemacht, also es ging ja auch am Anfang son bisschen darum, so Accessibility und Leute, die noch nie eine Brille auf hatten. Wir haben zum Beispiel, Division Pro macht viel mit Eye Tracking, weil die hat keine Controller. Und Du kannst dann quasi das Interface einfach angucken und dann tappen mit deinen Fingern, ums auszuwählen. Und wir haben uns bewusst dafür entschieden, dass Du für Tiny Finns kein Eye Tracking brauchst, also dass man quasi die Brille einfach aufziehen kann und es geht los, man muss es nicht einstellen.\n\nUnd so war auch 'n Learning bei uns im Office. Wir haben am Anfang alles erkannt, weil es ist natürlich schon magisch, da steht 'n Stuhl und prallen die Fische von dem Stuhl ab, das ist natürlich schon geil. Oder vom Dachbalken. Aber wenn Du quasi, also es geht ja darum, die Fische vor 'nem Hai zu beschützen mitunter und wenn Du das zehnte Mal an diesem Dachbalken hängen geblieben bist, während Du vor diesem Hai wegrennst, entscheidest Du dich dann dafür einfach zu sagen, wir tracken nur noch die horizontalen Flächen, dass Du nicht mehr durch den Boden schwimmen kannst, aber auch son bisschen, wenn Du die Wände ignorierst, ist es auch egal, wie groß der Raum von, also dann können auch Leute in 'nem kleinen Raum spielen und haben quasi son bisschen mehr mehr mehr mehr zur Verfügung, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ist natürlich dann auch sone son bisschen Abwägen ne von wie immer sie viel zu machen und wie soll's vom Gamedesign halt sein, dass es auch irgendwie weiterhin noch Spaß macht. Ja, genau. Das war ich immer sehr spannend. Was was ich interessant wollte, weil das habt ihr jetzt paar Mal gesagt, natürlich haben ja diese verschiedenen Headmounterd Displays, ne, sei es jetzt die Apple Vision Pro, die Metaquest, potenziell auch so was wie die Playstation VR Brille. Die haben ja unterschiedliche Steuerung, ne.\n\nDie Apple Vision Pro, wie ihr gesagt habt, hat zum Beispiel kein haptisches Feedback, die hatte ja gar keine Controller, muss aber ohne da auskommen. Wie sehr konzentriert ihr euch in Entwicklung, alle Plattformen gleichzeitig? Macht ihr erst mal auf eine eine Plattform und adaptiert das dann in Zukunft für die anderen oder habt ihr direkt irgendwie alles im Blick, was man da machen könnte?\n\nSpeaker 2: Na ja, also wenn's jetzt VR geht, haben wir's bis jetzt immer so gemacht, dass es dann für eine Plattform war. Aber das liegt auch einfach daran, bei tinyfin ja gut, klar, das war 'n Vision Pro Projekt und jetzt, wenn's kundenseitig irgendwas ist, dann bestimmst Du ja die Hardware und dann nimmst Du das, was Du denkst, funktioniert am besten. Vielleicht will der Kunde es dann später adaptieren, aber ja. Mhm. Ich Ich glaube, das ist aber jetzt in dem Sinne nicht klassisch.\n\nAlso wenn Du jetzt wirklich einfach son Game Studio bist, okay, wir wollen jetzt 'n neuen VR Titel rausbringen, dann überlegst Du natürlich, dass Du es irgendwie auf möglichst vielen Plattformen machen kannst.\n\nSpeaker 3: Genau, aber zum Beispiel jetzt mal, zum Beispiel wir haben für PE 'n Ding gemacht, das war auch eine Messe und die wollen da AR darstellen, die haben die wir machen so Lasercutter und so was und das ist zu gefährlich, das physisch darzustellen und deswegen haben wir mit Image Trackern quasi holografisch die Laserkutter und den Laser und so dargestellt und da ist dann auch so, ja okay, 'n Smartphone ist 'n bisschen zu klein für die Messe, die Brillen waren damals noch nicht draußen oder zumindest noch nicht auf dem Level Und dann nehmen wir einfach 'n Tablet natürlich, wir nehmen 'nem größeren Display. Was ist das Tablet, was aktuell das beste AR macht? Das ist das iPad Pro, also schlagen wir 'n iPad Pro vor logischerweise. So ungefähr ist dann der Gedankengang.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Mhm. Jetzt hast Du gesagt oder oder Dave hast Du heute gesagt, wenn Du 'n Spiel machst, willst Du ja irgendwie alle Plattformen abdecken. Und ich guck so diesen diesen Markt an, ohne da viel Einsicht reinzuhaben und ich frag mich so, ist das wirklich so? Weil dadurch, dass ja, also weder die Vision Pro noch die Meta Quest jetzt irgendwie eine riesige Install Base haben, ja, stell ich mal die ketzerische Frage, ob sich vielleicht nicht mehr lohnt, irgendwie mit einer von diesen Plattformen sonen Exklusivity Deal zu machen und dafür auf die andere vielleicht erst mal zu verzichten, weil das Add on von der zweiten oder dritten Plattform halt so inkrementell klein ist, dass sich vielleicht der andere Deal mehr lohnen kann, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich glaube, wenn Du jetzt einfach 'n VR Game rausbringen willst, dann geh auf die Meta Quest und ignorier erst mal die Apple Vision Pro.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: So, das und das machen Weil die\n\nSpeaker 0: Weil die geilste ist?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Okay. Richtig. Und auch die Zielgruppe. Also das ist halt wirklich, die Meta Quest kaufen Leute, die wollen spielen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, hab ich auch so gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, that's it und die Apple Vision Pro wird von Leuten gekauft, die finden's auch spannend, hey, ich will diesen Virtual Display von meinem Mac haben und ich will damit arbeiten und ja.\n\nSpeaker 3: Aber ist lustig, dass Du es ansprichst, weil wir haben tatsächlich, also es gibt von Apple Apple Arcade, das ist quasi die machen die machen die Games über die Apps und das gibt's natürlich auch für die Vision Pro und wir haben auch schon gemerkt, also wir haben versucht mit Tiny Fins da irgendwie reinzukommen und es hat genau, es hat nicht geklappt, aber es macht natürlich Sinn son exklusiv Deal zu machen, wenn man die Möglichkeit hat. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Habt ihr das Gefühl, dass dieses VR Ökosystem für Spiele son gesünderen Price Point hat? Mein Eindruck ist nämlich, wenn ich gerade so die Mobile Gaming Landschaft angucke, also Smartphon Mobile Gaming, so wie wir herkommen, dass da natürlich schon son gewisses Race to the Bottom irgendwie stattgefunden hat. Das ist schon vorbei, ja, da ist auch viel mit Werbefinanzierung und sowas gelaufen und wenn man sich so im Metaquest Store umguckt oder auf der Vision Pro irgendwie umguckt, dann findest Du halt Spiele, die bepreist sind für fünf, zehn, fünfzehn, zwanzig teilweise auch im Metaquest irgendwie dreißig, vierzig Euro Bereich ja so unterwegs, was eigentlich viel gesünder klingt erst mal so, ja, auch für Publisher. Oder erwartet ihr dann, dass wenn diese Plattformen irgendwie größer werden, dass diese Preise auch genauso hart nach unten korrigieren, wie das damals bei Smartphones stattgefunden hat.\n\nWeil wer sich erinnert, als son iPhone mal neu war und der App Store neu war, da haben Spieler auch am Anfang mal zehn Euro gekostet und so, ne?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, aber man muss sagen ja, ich find's sehr vergleichbar mit PC. Also auf bei VR Brillen, also die Games sind, genau, die haben meistens 'n Preis, die haben selten bis wenige Inderpurchices und ich glaub, ich hab noch nie Werbung jetzt in 'nem VR Game direkt gesehen. Und wenn Du jetzt bei PC, bei Steam guckst, würde ich sagen, ist das ähnlich. Also ja, Du hast hier und da Inderpurchices und Du also Expansions Add ons und so was, aber ich würd das mal noch so als sehr gesunde Sachen bezeichnen. Also ist jetzt nicht irgendwie toxisch in irgend 'nem Sinne.\n\nNoch. Noch, ja. Ich frag mich son bisschen, ich weiß nicht, woran's liegt, aber so, ich könnte mir vorstellen, dass dass es durch die durch die Einstiegshürde kommt. Also 'n Smartphone hat einfach inzwischen jeder, so, das gehört zum Grundrepertoire. Eine VR Brille ist einfach immer noch son son Premium, bei dem vielleicht dann auch sone gewisse Erwartungshaltung ist, dass ich da jetzt auch, ich bin bereit, jetzt auch zu investieren.\n\nDann, ich kauf mir eine Meta Quest für fünfhundert Euro, ja klar kaufe ich dann auch 'n Spiel für zehn, zwanzig. Beim Smartphone ist es vielleicht eher, ja, ich hab Smartphone und, aber ich weiß nicht genau, woher dieses gekommen ist.\n\nSpeaker 3: Also Ich meine, es ist, glaube ich, auch son bisschen dem Medium geschuldet. Also bei 'nem Smartphone hast Du eine Internet Connection und Du hast quasi dem Browser nur ein ein Klickway sozusagen und da dann quasi mal schnell in PayPal reinzugehen oder irgendwas zu verknüpfen und dann in App Purchase zu machen, ist quasi, das ist quasi schon der Flow ist natürlich in Smartphone integriert und bei 'ner VR Brille ist das, würde ich sagen, noch nicht so. Also da ist es schon auch teilweise, also klar, Du willst dich irgendwie, also es ist schon mega umständlich, dich überhaupt mit dem WLAN zu verbinden und irgendwie die VR Tastatur, aber klar Du bist dann früher oder später verbunden, aber es ist der der Flow ist ist einfach nicht so geil wie aufm Smartphone für sowas. Gut, aber\n\nSpeaker 1: da können sich das ja noch hinentwickeln. Also iris Check oder so, der mit deinem Konto verbunden ist, zack wird's direkt bestätigt. Ja. Ist ja alles denkbar.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ehrlicherweise, genauso ist es ja auf der Vision Pro.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ist es auf der Vision Pro.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, wenn Du was einkaufst oder hast, wie heißt das Vision Optic ID aktiviert sowie Face- oder Touch ID aufm Smartphone, dann grinst Du kurz in deine Brille und dann ist dein Kauf bestätigt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Hab ich das gerade gekauft,\n\nSpeaker 1: ich hab nämlich grad Tinyfans gekauft. Aber Du musst\n\nSpeaker 0: das, Du musst das halt einmalig einrichten, so wie Touch ID und sowas halt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, stimmt, ich glaub ich hab mal 'n Passwort eingegeben. Ich weiß das gar nicht mehr, ich bin so vergesslich. Krass, ich hab ich glaub mein Passwort eingegeben. Schön. Ich ich würd gern noch mal über eine eine sehr wichtige Sache sprechen für mich.\n\nOkay. Weil weil ich ja auch dieses Thema VR, AR und so generell sehr mag. Und das habt ihr auch schon häufiger erwähnt jetzt während der Aufnahme. Und zwar habt ihr von sonem magischen Effekt gesprochen oder ich hab mir auch die auch noch von anbau designen Design angeschaut, da stand auf 'ner Folie irgendwo Hype Magie. Mhm.\n\nUnd und es es muss sich einfach gut anfühlen. Und ich find, das sind so zwei Begriffe, die man auf jeden Fall nennen muss, Immersion und diesen von,\n\nSpeaker 0: oh. Das musst Du jetzt aber auch erst mal erklären, was das für alle da draußen, die jetzt\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber ist\n\nSpeaker 2: jetzt den Namen von dem Mihai. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Oder so.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ja.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, genau, genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also genau. Das das können die Gäste ja übernehmen. Also dass dass wir vielleicht diese Begriffe, Immersion, Flow State vielleicht mal einordnen und grad auch so Sachen, über die ihr auch gesprochen habt, wie Accessibility, vielleicht auch Optimierung bei der Entwicklung. Wie wichtig ist es halt für euch insgesamt? Wie sehr denkt ihr ganze Zeit dran?\n\nWas sind so eure Marker dafür, dass das alles umgesetzt wird, damit am Ende halt genau dieses Feeling entsteht?\n\nSpeaker 3: Also grundsätzlich Immersion ist ja son bisschen, also je nachdem, ob wir jetzt im VR oder im AR Bereich sind, aber jetzt zum Beispiel im AR Bereich ist es son bisschen, wie echt fühlt sich das Ganze an? Also wie sehr ist dieses drei D Objekt, fühlt sich das real für dich an, was Du jetzt vor dir im Raum hast und da drin ist die Vision zum Beispiel sehr stark, einfach weil die quasi das Lighting generiert aus der Umgebung und auch sehr gut mit den Schatten ist. Und da sind wir auch bei 'nem guten Punkt, also Schatten zum Beispiel und Ambient Oclusion, also Ambient Oclusion für die, die es nicht wissen, ist son bisschen so was wie 'n Kontaktschatten, also wenn zwei Flächen aufeinandertreffen, dann wird son son Ticken dunkler zur Kante hin. Das ist was, was das Gehirn automatisch macht, das lässt sich physisch nicht wirklich, also es ist jetzt nicht, dass das irgendwie von von von von der Lichtquelle abhängig ist, sondern das ist einfach da. Und quasi, wenn man diese zwei Schatten drin hat und die halbwegs gut sind, dann ist das schon sehr wichtig für die Immersion grundsätzlich im Raum und grade auch, wie das drei D Objekt im im Raum verankert ist.\n\nWas war der andere Begriff?\n\nSpeaker 1: Flow State.\n\nSpeaker 3: Aber genau. Oder bist Du noch?\n\nSpeaker 2: Flow State? Ich hätte jetzt nicht, mir würde jetzt nicht direkt was einfallen, was dann irgendwie damit zu VR Development gehört. Also Flow State ist für mich einfach wirklich das, was beim Gaming auftritt. Also ich kenn's noch einfach so, man hatte immer, man versucht diese Balance herzustellen, dass etwas nicht zu schwer ist, weil dann überfordert's einen, aber auch nicht zu leicht ist, weil dann hat man Langeweile. Wenn Du in diesem Modus bist, ich mein, als Programmierer kennt man's hoffentlich, dass man irgendwann einfach in diesem Tunnel ist, das wär jetzt der Flow State.\n\nMit 'nem guten Game kann man das erreichen, ist für mich aber unabhängig das Konzept von VR AR, das kann man auch damit erreichen, aber\n\nSpeaker 3: ja. Genau, also Flow ist ja quasi, man ist ja gut in dem Flow State drin, wenn man einfach eine Schwierigkeit wählt, die die dich fordert, aber nicht überfordert, aber schon eigentlich fast schon so an der Grenze ist und dich auch so langsam reinführt, also dass Du quasi, also man kann ja quasi in Steps in diesen Flow reingeführt werden und das ist wahrscheinlich einfach gutes Gamedesign, das hat glaube ich jetzt nicht direkt mit VR was zu tun.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber ist das nicht so, These, ich hab keine Ahnung, ich hab da nicht meine Abschlussarbeit drüber geschrieben, dass in 'nem VR und AR Space Performance viel wichtiger ist, son State zu erhalten, weil wenn ich jetzt an meinem Rechner sitz und ich spiel hier, weiß nicht, mal meinen Shooter oder sowas und da droppt ab und zu mal son Frame, dann ist das halt irgendwie ärgerlich, aber das stört mich nicht weiter, aber wenn ich gerade in 'nem Area- oder via Space unterwegs bin und das droppt eins oder zwei Frames, dann bricht so meine Realität mich rum. So und das ist, glaube ich, viel mehr disruptive in dem Moment, ja, wenn ich jetzt im beim beim Bizepsspielen irgendwie hart dabei bin so, ja, und auf einmal hüpfen so alle Klötzen, mich rum, anstatt sich irgendwie flüssig zu bewegen oder so, da ist direkt dieser State halt kaputt so, weil ich weiß auch, okay, hier hat irgendwie gerade meine, also son Glitch in der Matrix hab ich rum aufgetreten, ja, und meine Realität war kurz kaputt und das das glaube ich, das was Du meinst, Dave, ne, dass dass man so dieses Performance dann irgendwie machen muss, weil das halt auf einmal sehr viel wichtiger wird, als es vorher vielleicht war.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das stimmt, ja nee, ist 'n guter Punkt. Also ich würd generell sagen, also ich find so irgendwie auf allen Plattformen Performance wichtig, so, das sollte man einfach dann einhalten, deswegen, aber ja, es ist bei VR bestimmt noch mal wichtiger. Es ist auch in dem Sinne bei VR dieses mit dem Optimierung noch mal wichtiger, weil man halt überlegen muss, also bei der Vision Pro zum Beispiel, klar, die hat 'n starken Chip, ich glaub, das ist der m2, also wie wie eine Macbook Air, aber da sind zwei vier k Displays drin, so. Das heißt, diese Brille muss wirklich drei D Objekte im Raum erkennen, die muss den ganzen Kram machen, wir haben da Sachen rumfliegen und das mit sonem Mobile Chip am Ende des Tages, der ja mit 'ner Batterie gepowert wird. Man stößt schnell an Stellen, wenn man nicht optimiert, wo es halt einfach kritisch wird.\n\nAlso das muss man, ja, das haben wir die ganze Zeit beim Development im Kopf behalten müssen und da vor allem am Anfang war es halt spannend, weil da gab's einfach noch keine Guidelines dafür. Also da teilweise haben wir dann auch Sachen gefunden, die dann sozusagen bei dem Community Framework noch kaputt waren, ne, die die optimieren mussten und so weiter. Das ist natürlich immer der Struggle, wenn man früh dabei ist sozusagen.\n\nSpeaker 3: Aber es ist auch interessant das Thema in dem Sinne, weil es ist glaube ich für VR ist es unfassbar wichtig, dass es gut optimized ist, weil Du Du willst keine sechzig FPS, also Du willst eher neunzig FPS oder hundertzwanzig FPS, weil Du wirklich, Du willst wirklich, also da sind wir wieder im Begriff immersiv, also Du bist dann schon eher in dieser Anwendung drin und ich hab auch das Gefühl, dass Motion Sickness weniger auftritt, wenn Du eine höhere Framerate hast. Also gerade wenn dann es anfängt zu ruckeln beim Testen und so, das sind dann schon eher die Momente, wo einem mal son bisschen schlecht wird. Und also gerade bei einem, also zum Beispiel es gab einen Biatsaber Klon für die Vision Pro, der der rausgekommen ist und der war nicht so komplett flüssig und jedem, also also ich zum Beispiel bin jemand, der kein Problem mit Motion Stickness hat auf auf VR Brillen und mir war auch nach einer Minute kurz übel, als wir das gespielt haben. Also es war auf jeden Fall, also optimieren. Und das Verrückte ist, jetzt gerade als Division rausgekommen ist, also da sind teilweise muss man an Sachen denken, die aus dem typischen Game Development jetzt nicht unbedingt son Ding sind.\n\nAlso wie viele, also klar ist das schon auch 'n Ding, aber zum Beispiel drauf wir gekommen sind, sind Draw Calls. Mhm. Also es ist nicht nur wichtig, wie ist der, wie hoch aufgelöst sind die drei D Modelle und wie viele, sondern auch wie viele Materialien werden verwendet und wie viele Gameobjekts gibt's generell. Also was man zum Beispiel gerne mal macht, 'n bisschen Zeit zu sparen, ist zum Beispiel, man macht einen leeres Gameobjekt, einen drei-d-Modell drum rum, zum Beispiel son gewissen Offset zu haben. Also dass Du quasi das Gameobjekt selbst ist bei null null null, wenn wir jetzt die die Spielwelt nehmen, also quasi genau in der Mitte, aber Du willst quasi, dass das drei D Objekt immer drei Meter von der Mitte entfernt ist und kannst dann quasi, wenn Du's mit Code ansteuerst, halt quasi immer mit null null null rechnen, obwohl das also son bisschen und das ist sone Denke, die man sich son, die ich mir zum Beispiel son bisschen so angewöhnt hatte und die dann aber einfach Performance gekostet hat auf der Vision am Anfang, weil die dann quasi dieses drei D Objekt noch mal als dieses leere Objekt noch mal als Extraobjekt mit berechnet hat und das dann und so weiter.\n\nJa, genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Lass uns vielleicht noch mal über Performance sprechen, weil da sind ja die beiden großen Plattformen, die Quest und die Vision Pro gerade sehr unterschiedlich aufgestellt. So und auch ja bewusst sehr unterschiedlich aufstellt, ne, also Vision Pro, mehr Kameras, irgendwie mehr Displays. Du hast grade die die ganzen Lightning Berechnungen irgendwie angesprochen, die da schon so für dich erledigt werden und Apple versucht da ja so im Prinzip möglichst authentisch, möglichst performant was zu bieten, so. Und gefühlt, ich bin kein Profi, aber gefühlt geht Meta mit mit der Questzone sehr andere Route, so. Alles 'n bisschen kleiner, alles 'n bisschen lowkey.\n\nSie haben gefühlt auch gar nicht den Anspruch, so viel authentizierter reinzubringen, ja, aber ermöglichen halt dadurch einfach eine andere Art oder überhaupt erst mal Games, die es ja vorher so gar nicht gab, ja. Und ich hab da neulich mit meinem Bruder drüber gesprochen, weil der auch da so in dem Space 'n bisschen unterwegs ist. Und die Frage ist ja, ist das 'n Problem, was sich über Zeit einfach löst, weil irgendwann wird Performance billig und möglich genug, dass man das auch in kleineren billigeren Headsets unterbringt oder ist das wie im PC Gaming halt auch, dass es trotzdem, also auch wenn gute Performance immer erschwinglicher wird, die noch viel bessere Performance ja auch immer noch da sein wird, so, ja? Also 'n Headset, was dreimal so viel kostet, wird immer noch mal mehr Performance irgendwie bringen können, ja? Und wo seht ihr da so den den Gaming Markt, dass er so wirklich auf dieses Triple-a-Level hinzielt und fotorealistisch dir irgendwelche Welten bieten will oder eher in so Spielen wie jetzt bei bei Tiny Finns, bei Beatsaver, bei Pistol Wippie halt mit 'nem mit 'nem ganz anderen Ansatz da eigentlich fahren, ja?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich glaube auf jeden Fall son bisschen dieses, also hast Du so zwei Aspekte angesprochen. Also das eine ist auf jeden Fall immer, ja, die Brillen werden immer stärker, aber natürlich erstens heißt es dann auch zum Beispiel mehr Pixel, also das heißt, die Performance wird dann irgendwo auch verbraucht und die Ansprüche werden auch immer höher, also das heißt, da muss man dann doch wieder optimieren. Das andere finde ich halt super spannend, dieses mit dem geht's so in Richtung Fotorealismus, weil das ist sone Bewegung, die mich persönlich teilweise son bisschen abfuckt, weil man dann immer dieses hat, oh, wir wollen's jetzt noch realistischer, wollen's immer wieder realistischer. Aber meine persönliche Wahrnehmung ist gerade im VR Bereich, also man dachte, finde ich, am Anfang immer so, ah, damit's immersiv ist, muss es fotorealistisch sein, weil dann sieht's ja aus wie die echte Welt, aber das stimmt einfach gar nicht. Also die andere Aspekte machen es immersiv und das kann auch komplett stylized sein.\n\nDas macht's oft sogar noch mehr immersiv.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber sorry, wenn ich da kurz unterbrechen, weil also ich, in der Beobachtung würde ich hier voll zustimmen, ja, so, wenn ich Bit selber spiele, fühle ich mich voll drin, weil also, ne, egal ob's jetzt high poly ist oder nicht, aber dadurch das halt gut funktioniert und akkurat ist, fühlt es sich echt an. Genau. Aber die Frage ist, ist es nicht einfach nur so low poly, weil es nicht anders geht Und ist die Erwartungshaltung nicht eigentlich doch eine andere, aber man kann halt einfach nicht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaube nicht. Also, meine Meinung dazu ist genauso, also hier Inside out zum Beispiel, Disney Pixar Filme, die sind nicht, also, die wären jetzt nicht besser dadurch, wenn es echte Schauspieler wären, meiner Meinung nach. Also diese Charaktere sind Stylyzed, die können Emotionen, also wie 'n guter Comic noch mal auf 'nem anderen Level vermitteln und da hat's einfach seinen seinen Platz. Also jetzt zum Beispiel Disney und Pixar, die haben ja praktisch kein Performance Limit. Also die haben da riesige Renderfarmen, deren Lightning und die Berechnung, die die anstellen, sind Wahnsinn, aber die Charaktere sind trotzdem in dem Sinne simpel.\n\nAlso die haben wahrscheinlich Millionen von Polygone und so, aber wenn man die sich anguckt, ist ja ganz klar, das ist kein echter Mensch, so.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja. Ich glaub, wo man auch aufpassen muss, ist, die Technik ist auf jeden Fall noch nicht da, dass Du in VR Fotorealismus wirklich geil darstellen kannst. Und sobald Du versuchst, realistisch zu sein, landest Du schnell in der Uncanny Valley. Also Du bist dann, grade wenn's jetzt Menschen oder so was geht, das ist, ich kenn kein Computerspiel, was auf dem Level ist, dass Du denkst, wow, das ist das sieht grade fotorealistisch aus in Realtime. Das geht bei Produktpräsentationen, also wenn Du zum Beispiel im AR Bereich sagst, ey, wir schauen uns jetzt den neuen Föhn von Dyson in drei d an und zeigen das 'n paar Leuten, dann natürlich schon.\n\nUnd gerade bei metallischen oder sagen wir glänzenden Sachen geht das auch schon relativ gut. Aber gerade wenn's auch organische Sachen geht, Pflanzen, Menschen, Tiere, da ist Fotorealismus ist noch nicht so weit.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich glaube ich bin da aber insgesamt auch 'n bisschen mal Seppi so, Was Du auch gesagt hast, so man man macht so sein eigenes Artwork und so, seinen eigenen Style. Ich find 'n ganz großes Beispiel dafür ist ja auch Nintendo. Ja. Die haben jetzt überhaupt keine krasse Hardware schon seit Jahrzehnten nicht. Aber die Spiele sehen ja trotzdem irgendwie schön aus, ne.\n\nWenn man jetzt so Mario oder auch The Legend of Zelda anschaut, die haben son eigenes Artwork. Man man findet's trotzdem schön und ansprechend so, ist aber natürlich nicht super hochauflösend. Und ich glaub, da versucht man, glaub ich, auch in VR oder AR auch gar nicht hinzugehen, sondern eher so wirklich, wir machen unseren eigenen Art Style und das versuchen wir gut rüberzubringen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, ja. Das wird son bisschen, glaube ich, halt durch die Performance Limitierung wird's erzwungen und deswegen gehen die Leute in die Richtung. Ich glaube, viele würden versuchen, Fotorealismus zu gehen und es wird auch sicherlich kommen. Und ich glaube auch, das ist ja immer dieses Ding, dieser Fotorealismus Punkt ist beeindruckend, solange es das Beste ist. Also wenn wir jetzt zehn Jahre zurückgehen, ich glaub, man erinnert sich immer so, zum Beispiel die PS3 kam raus, das Spiel, was dann da rauskam, war für einen, oh mein Gott, das sieht jetzt aus wie echt.\n\nMan guckt fünf Jahre später wieder drauf, dann so, nee, nee, nee, das war nicht gut.\n\nSpeaker 1: War das damals wirklich, ja, crazy. Haben alle gesagt, okay, realistischer geht's nicht mehr.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, und ich glaub, diese Momente werden in VR auch kommen und wahrscheinlich noch mal krasser sein, so, oh mein Gott, das sieht jetzt wirklich echt aus. Und das, ich glaub, das ist cool und ich find's geil, wenn es dann irgendwann geht, aber das heißt nicht, dass dann Styylzed und und halt 'n simplerer Look nicht trotzdem Platz hat.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist richtig. Ich hatte übrigens son Erlebnis, als ich Final Fantasy damals im Kino geguckt hab, das war ja auch 3D gerendert, aber halt so mit echten Menschen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Final Fantasy hat son Kinofilm?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ja, Dave, das war vor deiner Zeit.\n\nSpeaker 1: Alter, da ist krass.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und als ich den gesehen hab, damals sagt er auch so, okay krass, jetzt sind alle Schauspieler arbeitslos und wir werden nur noch so 3D gerenderte Menschen haben. Wenn Du ihn dir heute anguckst,\n\nSpeaker 3: so kannst\n\nSpeaker 0: Du mal einen Trailer nachher schauen, dann denkst Du auch so, da ist der ja mit Tomaten im Augen ins Kino gegangen. Ja okay, aber dann lass uns doch mal son bisschen in die Zukunft vielleicht schauen, wie sich dieses denn Oh,\n\nSpeaker 1: ich hatte vorhin noch mal eine Frage Okay,\n\nSpeaker 0: lass uns doch nicht in die Zukunft schauen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Es ist natürlich, man man spricht nicht so übers Geld, aber ich würd trotzdem bisschen über das Finanzielle son bisschen sprechen. Und zwar fand ich das interessant, weil ihr vorhin angeschnitten habt, so ihr hattet bisher keine Web AR Anwendung gemacht Mhm. Und genau. Ich ich hab ja immer so geschaut, zum Beispiel jetzt, was die Apple Vision Pro angeht und es gibt keine genauen Angaben, wie viel davon jetzt verkauft worden sind. Ja.\n\nAber wir haben ja so trotzdem generell festgestellt, die sowohl dieser VR als auch Mixed Reality als auch AR Markt relativ klein, ne. Und dann natürlich, wenn man dann halt auch eine Anwendung für macht, die verkauft und so, sind potenziell nicht sehr viele Kunden. Und da ist son bisschen die Frage, diese dieser gesamte Bereich Web AR, der ist ja viel zugänglicher, weil jeder hat ja quasi 'n Smartphone und dass man daraus potenziell also 'n viel größeren Markt bedient. Ist das auch was, was für euch spannend ist, wo ihr dann auch grade Überlegung macht, vielleicht eher in die Richtung zu gehen? Oder sagt ihr, momentan fahrt ihr mit der Größe eures Teams und so insgesamt damit gut, so wie es grade ist?\n\nSpeaker 3: Ist eine gute Frage. Also bei uns ist es natürlich immer son bisschen, es ist sone Mischung aus, wir haben Bock uns da drauf zu stürzen und was sind die Anfragen, die wir bekommen oder wenn wir quasi, wenn wir auf, natürlich sind wir hin und wieder auch auf Networking Events unterwegs, was ist da so der Vibe, worauf stehen die Leute gerade? Und genau, bis jetzt ist, glaube ich, also ich glaub das, was uns hauptsächlich von von Web AR abgehalten hat, ist wirklich, wie Seppi schon gesagt hat, es gibt eigentlich nur einen, der das richtig gut macht, was wir was auf dem Qualitätslevel ist, was wir Kunden anbieten wollen und die sind viel zu teuer. Mhm. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Also sonst wüsste ich jetzt auch nicht direkt, was mir noch dazu einfällt. Also grad wenn man jetzt den Mobile Market anspricht, dann so was wie, Pokémon Go hat's ja in dem Sinne vorgemacht, kannst Du ja auch mit 'ner App riesengroß sein. Mhm. Also\n\nSpeaker 3: Genau, also wir wenn 'n neues Medium rauskommt wie die Vision Pro zum Beispiel, dann stürzen wir uns da drauf, haben dann quasi mal geguckt, was geht auf dem Markt und wir haben festgestellt, dass damit lässt sich jetzt nicht das große Geld machen. Also das Spiel bringt uns, hat uns vielleicht, weiß ich nicht,\n\nSpeaker 2: fünftausend Euro glaube ich bisher.\n\nSpeaker 3: Fünftausend Euro bis jetzt eingebracht. Das ist bei einer Entwicklungszeit von vier Monaten natürlich absurd lächerlich. Das ist jetzt, es ist cool, also es ist einfach 'n cooles Ding gewesen, es hat mega Bock gemacht. Aber es ist jetzt nicht das, was unsere Firma finanziert. Da geht man dann doch wieder in die Kundenprojekte eher.\n\nSpeaker 2: Mhm. Ja. Das ist eher so eine Referenz, die wir nutzen können, Projekte zu bekommen, aber wenn wir jetzt einfach 'n Game Studio wären und das wär jetzt, das wär unser Produkt und wir machen nur Vision Pro Games, boah tough. Ich weiß nicht, ob das irgendjemand gerade machen kann. Ich glaube nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Unabhängig davon, ob ihr das jetzt gerade machen könnt, aber wär das was, was ihr gerne machen würdet?\n\nSpeaker 3: Also wir haben son bisschen damit geliebäugelt, wenn jetzt quasi wir eine Kooperation mit Apple hätten quasi und dann nur noch AR Games für die Vision Pro machen und dann finanziert werden, das wär schon der Dream, also das wär schon sehr geil. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Man muss ja auch träumen dürfen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Aber ich glaube, das ist gerade der richtige Move auch sehr früh in diesem Ökosystem drin zu sein, so quasi vielleicht sich als erstes Unternehmen auch zu etablieren, was so diesen Gaming Markt angeht. Da hab ich mit mit Yanno vorhin geredet, weil wir auch über Apps damals für für für iOS geredet haben. Ich hab einfach mal geschaut, so was damals irgendwie so die Top Charts war und da fand ich halt so lustig, dass dieses iFart Mobile einfach auf Platz eins war.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja oder dieses Bierapp.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, die haben ja\n\nSpeaker 2: auch diese\n\nSpeaker 1: Bierapp, die haben gedacht. Und dieser Knopf, also das war ja diese aFart Mobile hat sie einfach nur son Knopf, wo dann irgendwie verschiedene sind, ich glaub, acht maximal, die sie unterschieden haben und so. Und die hat ja glaub ich auch, weiß nicht, drei Euro kostet, vier Euro oder lass es 'n Euro gewesen sein. Aber ich glaub, die hat auch 'n riesen Revenue und war auch Platz eins zu der Charts damals. Also deswegen, ich glaub, es lohnt sich auch auf jeden Fall sehr früh am Ball zu sein.\n\nIhr müsst\n\nSpeaker 0: einfach die I Am Rich App für VR bauen. Geil. Dann habt ihr schon ausgesorgt.\n\nSpeaker 3: Also was wir jetzt son bisschen gemacht haben dieses Jahr ist, wir haben uns jetzt bei anderen Agenturen im Frankfurter Raum quasi son bisschen vorgestellt als die Agentur, die für die Vision Pro entwickeln kann und haben uns da auch son bisschen etabliert und wir sind jetzt in zwei, drei Projekten deswegen für Vision Pro. Aber genau, also im Prinzip haben wir das schon son bisschen gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also da wird auch grade von meinem Gefühl her vor allem Division Pro eingesetzt, so da ist so richtig die Value da, so Business Kontext und so weiter, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was was glaubt ihr muss passieren, dass dieses Ökosystem allgemein größer wird, weil ja, also son bisschen Pro ist teuer, muss man gar nicht drüber reden, aber es gibt ja auch billigere Alternativen und grade wenn man jetzt sone Meta Quest 3S anguckt für irgendwie dreihundert Dollar oder sowas, glaube ich, ne, dann ist das ja im Vergleich zu anderen, grade wenn ihr sagt, man vergleicht das dann aus dem Gaming Bereich vielleicht auch mit Konsolen, ist es gar nicht mehr so teuer eigentlich, ja. Aber ich frag mich, also aus meiner Sicht fehlt halt gefühlt sone sone Killer App in diesem Space, so. Also weißt Du wo eine App, die Du siehst, wo Du denkst, okay, allein dafür will ich mich jetzt in diesen Space einkaufen, egal ob das jetzt mit 'ner Vision Pro oder 'ner Meta Quest oder eine Hololens, wenn Du so irgendwo gebraucht noch findest, so nachdem es keine mehr gibt, ja. Also was kann diesen Pull Faktor halt so aufbauen, dass das irgendwie mal für die Mehrheit der Leute interessant und son bisschen aus diesem Nischen Thema rauskommt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaube son bisschen, dass die Killer App dann kommen wird, wenn man's wirklich im Alltag verwenden kann. So, und damit meine ich, dass man damit auch rausgehen kann. Also und Aber\n\nSpeaker 0: ist das nicht so ein soziales Problem? Also ich mein, ich könnte ja jetzt auch mit meiner Vision oder mit meiner Meta Quest drei durch die Gegend laufen, aber ehrlicherweise\n\nSpeaker 1: Gibt sehr viele Youtube Videos von.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, aber ehrlicherweise mache ich's halt nicht, weil ich mir denk so, die Leute würden dich, glaube ich, komisch angucken. Ja, aber das ist ja\n\nSpeaker 2: 'n soziales Problem, was Du mit der Technik lösen kannst. Also genauso damals irgendwie, Du musst, wenn Du jetzt, wenn Apple jetzt die AirPods designt oder ich glaub, noch bei den ersten Kopfhörern war's auch son bisschen so die Frage, oh, würden Leute mit Kopfhörern rausgehen? Und dann machst Du die halt irgendwie sleak und weiß und die müssen cool aussehen. So, Du musst dich cool fühlen, wenn Du damit rausgehst und grade fühlst Du dich eher nerdy und komisch, so. Und mal ganz davon abgesehen, dass Du natürlich damit zum Beispiel nicht Auto fahren kannst, dass Du die, wenn Du die mehr als zwei Stunden aufhast, also Du willst, Du willst die nicht vierundzwanzig sieben Stunden aufhaben.\n\nEs muss irgendwie klein, es muss kompakt sein, klar der Traum ist irgendwie Kontaktlinsen, sonst was.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ich glaube, die Apps gibt's auch schon in 'nem gewissen Maße. Die sind nur nicht, also ich glaube schon, dass wenn Du sone einfach eine normale Brille hättest wie jetzt eine Lesebrille oder eine Sehbrille und die kann AR. Google Maps in der Eier wär der Hammer, dich irgendwohin zu navigieren oder Du bist in irgend 'nem Supermarkt und das kann dir zeigen, welches Produkt in welchem Regal steht, mal die spießigen Sachen abzudecken.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber nein, aber so praktisch, jedes Mal ärgere ich mich noch, warum habt ihr mit dem Regal umgestellt?\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber ganz ehrlich, das war ja schon in dem ersten Demovideo zu Google Glass damals so, ne? Da hast Du diesen Typ gesehen, der irgendwie einkaufen geht und es zeigt ihm irgendwie im Supermarkt, wo er hin muss und dann begegnet ihm jemanden, den er nicht mehr erkennt und über dem Gesicht poppt so der Name und irgendwie die Chathistorie und so weiter. Also diesen Traum gibt es ja gefühlt seit zwanzig Jahren.\n\nSpeaker 3: Genau. Und\n\nSpeaker 0: ja. Gefühlt sind wir nur mit sehr kleinen Schritten irgendwie dem nähergekommen in den letzten zwanzig Jahren.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, das ist halt das Krasse. Da musst ich auch eben dran denken, dass Du gesagt hast, ja, man will halt früh dabei sein wie bei dem App Store. Das haben halt auch die Leute schon vor zehn Jahren gesagt. Und man man dachte immer so, in drei Jahren ist denn Schwelle erreicht. Das ist\n\nSpeaker 0: 'n bisschen wie Fusionsenergie. Wir sind eigentlich seit dreißig Jahren so kurz davor, was zu schaffen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Also als wir vor fünf Jahren so über die Apple Vision, über die Apple Brille philosophiert haben, es war ja irgendwie klar, dass Apple an einer arbeitet, dachte ich vor fünf Jahren schon, dass das eher in Richtung wie sone Brille geht, natürlich jetzt bisschen übertrieben, aber wie eine normale Brille und nicht wie 'n VR Headset. Ich konnt's mir nicht vorstellen, dass Apple so was rausbringen würde, was wie 'n VR Headset aussieht überhaupt. Ist dann halt, ja, die Technik hat anscheinend ergeben, das geht halt nicht so klein.\n\nSpeaker 3: Auf deine Frage zurückzukommen, ich glaube, es ist wirklich, es ist wirklich der Formfaktor und das Geld. Also ich glaube, wenn wenn da eine Brille für in 'nem normalen Preisrahmen, sagen wir so teuer wie 'n iPhone tausend fünfhundert Euro oder so und die ist wirklich sleak und die ist integriert sich geil in deinen Alltag, dann würden die Anwendungen, die schon da sind, sind dann entweder gut genug oder die werden sehr schnell kommen. Also ich glaub es ist wirklich, es ist ein Hardware Problem.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also wenn man sich anguckt, was Meta neben Space gerade macht mit den Raibants oder mit dem\n\nSpeaker 3: Orion, wo\n\nSpeaker 0: wir ja auch vor zwei, drei Wochen hier im Podcast Orion. Orion.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wir haben uns drauf Andy Orion zu sagen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber sogar diese, die Orion sieht immer noch son bisschen dumm aus. Also, ja Gut, so, krass. Weil sie kommt jetzt auch aus dem Prototyp Labor und\n\nSpeaker 0: hat's glaube ich nicht dafür gemacht, irgendwie bei Ray Ben im Laden zu sitzen so.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nein, nein, aber das ist der Prototyp, den sie noch nicht verkaufen könnten, der würde irgendwie zehntausend Euro kosten, das heißt, das ist aber das Beste, was gerade geht und die sieht auch immer noch bisschen klunky aus.\n\nSpeaker 3: Die sind kleine D-Brille im Kino.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, daran, genau, da hab ich auch gedacht, weil ich auch son bisschen die Gläser hatte. Ja, ja, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: So und also, ich weiß nicht, ob ich damit rausgehen würde. Und das ist halt dann schon, also, ich glaub, das zeigt son bisschen, wie weit wir dann doch noch davon leider entfernt sind.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Cool. Dave, noch eine Frage?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, vielleicht, weil wir ja grad so mit Blick in die Zukunft sind, vielleicht noch mal 'n bisschen so, was die Entwicklung explizit angeht oder ja, vielleicht so ganz allgemein, die Extended Reality Apps, was denkt ihr, wo wird sich's in den nächsten Jahren hinbewegen und welche Kinderkrankheiten müssen definitiv in der Entwicklung gelöst werden, damit das halt für viel mehr Leute zugänglich sein wird?\n\nSpeaker 3: Also ich glaub, ein großes eine große Kinderkrankheit für die Entwickler wurde jetzt schon mit der Kooperation zwischen Unity und Apple bisschen leichter gemacht. Also Du kannst quasi in deiner vertrauten Game Engine der Wahl beziehungsweise wenn Unity deine Wahl ist, kannst Du kannst Du einfach entwickeln und das dann quasi auf die Vision Pro portten oder auf die Quest oder aufs Smartphone oder ins Web. Das ist alles schon son bisschen, das hat's auf jeden Fall schon mal wesentlich einfacher gemacht. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und natürlich ist Apple auch voll die Route gegangen, alle unsere iPhone Apps funktionieren ja praktisch auch auf der Vision, beziehungsweise Swift UI geht ja auch auf der Vision, halt in zwei-d-Fenster dann logischerweise. Das hat natürlich, ist auch in dem Sinne gut und ermöglicht theoretisch natürlich vielen Entwicklern, die irgendwie Erfahrung haben, im App Bereich da direkt einzusteigen. Mich ist dann halt son bisschen, ich glaub, es gibt sone Riesenschwelle zwischen Leuten so, hey, ich mach Apps, ich mach irgendwie zwei d und Leuten, hey, ich mach Games. Und das ist eigentlich dieser Gamesbereich ist viel näher am Augmented Reality Bereich und ich glaub, die ganzen App Leute sind nicht richtig abgeholt oder die Brücke werden die vielleicht nicht machen. Also, und dann bleibt's halt bei diesen Fenster Apps und es ist son bisschen schade, weil was kann sone Fenster App am Ende des Tages wirklich?\n\nKlar, ist nicht schlecht, aber nutzt das jetzt wirklich die Brille aus oder ist es einfach, hab ich jetzt meine iPhone App auf der Brille, so, ja.\n\nSpeaker 3: Also nur noch mal kurz Fenster App vielleicht zu klarifyen. Also zum Beispiel wir haben am Anfang gab's total viele Apps, die auf Division Pro geportet wurden, die eigentlich fürs iPad waren und ich weiß nicht, ob ihr zum Beispiel Deadpack Joyright kennt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das war jetzt nicht son spannender Port, muss ich sagen.\n\nSpeaker 3: Genau, das ist halt quasi, ja, Du wirst irgendwie eine VR Umgebung gesetzt in son virtuelles Labor, aber eigentlich ist es wie als würdest Du das Spiel auf 'nem Beamer spielen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also Du\n\nSpeaker 3: hast 'n großen Screen vor\n\nSpeaker 0: dir, da\n\nSpeaker 3: ist es in zwei D, wenn Du die Finger zusammentappst, dann fliegt der nach oben und fällt dann wieder runter und es fühlt sich einfach lazy an. Also es ist ganz nett.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich mein das für Leute, die keinen Bildschirm haben.\n\nSpeaker 3: Genau. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ja, aber es ist halt einfach, Jetpack Drivriide hab ich auch gespielt und ich musste sagen, das ist einfach die schlechtere Version vom Original,\n\nSpeaker 3: weil\n\nSpeaker 0: Du gewinnst nichts. Du hast es einfach nur in der a wie vor in so 'ner 2D Plane Folie und die Steuerung ist noch viel unakkurater als sie schon ist im Original. Original.\n\nSpeaker 3: Genau und das ist natürlich, also wenn Du dann natürlich irgendwie, es gibt viel coole Reports, wo dann mit dem Jetpack vielleicht wo Du im Raum rumfliegen kannst, aber Du musst dir dann, es gibt einfach Mechanics, die dann vielleicht nicht mehr funktionieren und ich weiß gar nicht worauf ich hinaus wollte damit.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also die meisten Apps sehen halt so aus, so ungefähr. Ja, ja. Und weil es halt auch Development dann, glaube ich, schwerfällt dieses von 2D zu 3D oder also das halt einfach, das alles ist anders auf einmal und die machen diesen Sprung nicht oder der Sprung ist auch fällt auch nicht leicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber ich muss auch sagen, ich will ja auch gar nicht alles so 3D haben. Also wenn ich jetzt an meine, weiß nicht, an meine Adressbuch App denke, ja, dann will ich ja, wenn ich die aufmache, irgendwie mein Adressbuch durchflicken und nicht jeden, der in meinem Adressbuch ist, so als 3D Avatar vor mir sehen und mich dann so durch die Meute wühlen müssen, jetzt irgendwie meine Mutter zu finden, damit ich sie anrufen kann, ja, so. Also es ist ja schon auch legitim, dass dass es diese Art von Apps irgendwie auch in 'nem AR- oder via Umfeld gibt, aber ich bin auch bei euch so, ich glaub, bei ganz viel könnte man noch son bisschen bisschen nicht machen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich\n\nSpeaker 2: glaube, ich komme immer aus dem, das ist dann vielleicht son bisschen mehr so in die Zukunft gedacht, aus diesem Aspekt. Meine Traumvision von Augmented Reality ist eigentlich, dass wir die echte will, echte Welt, so oder die Aspekte der echten Welt, die wir gewohnt sind, wieder bekommen. Und in der echten Welt ist eigentlich fast nix flach. Also da sind die Sachen flach, die wir kreiert haben, unsere Tablets, unsere unsere Papier und Zettel, aber die ganzen Sachen, die wir anfassen, die sind alle irgendwie halt dreidimensional, die sind haptik, die sind, die vermitteln mir viel mehr Informationen als es irgendwelche flachen Sachen könnten. Deswegen glaube ich, dass irgendwann alles irgendwie dimensional und räumlich wird und unser Gehirn und wie wir denken, kann damit besser umgehen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Der Rollodex kommt wieder als Kontakt App. Ja, vielleicht.\n\nSpeaker 3: Es ist ja auch so, dass gerade einen Trend im Designbereich ist ja Fidgetle, also quasi Du hast wieder haptische Buttons, Du kannst wieder Du hast wieder Widerstand, wenn Du was drehst, Du kannst Sachen anfassen und ich hoffe oder könnte mir gut vorstellen, dass da eine dass da eine Korrelation entsteht zwischen AR und diesen physischen Buttons. Also was zum Beispiel mega Bock macht, ich weiß nicht, ob ihr im Europapark zum Beispiel Julbi kennt, die machen so VR Experiences. Ja. Da gehst Du in sone Halle rein und Du hast dann wirklich, Du hast einen physischen Hebel, den kannst Du umlegen, der ist in drei D auch da, das ist voll VR oder da ist einen Modell von 'nem Leuchtturm, was Du hochheben kannst und in VR kannst Du den dann als Taschenlampe benutzen, weil Du gerade 'n Riese bist und alle anderen sind klein. Und diese Kombination ist, finde ich, das Magischste, was aktuell möglich ist.\n\nUnd ich hoffe sehr, dass es sich in diese Richtung entwickelt son bisschen, aber ich glaube, ich bin mir nicht sicher, weil wer weiß. Also es ist schon es ist schon auch teuer einfach immer wieder die Hardware sozusagen dann dazu zu verkaufen. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber es kann ja auch einfach in also so Use Case spezifisch schon hilfreich sein. Ja, also ich fand das bei der Meta Quest zum Beispiel ganz cool, wie sie so die Controller, wenn sie in der Gegend rumliegen und und Du siehst die Controller quasi durch die Brille, dann sind die so gehighlightet. Die haben einfach sone minimale Strahlkraft, so damit sie in deinem Raum son bisschen besser auffallen und Du sie finden kannst, das das ja schon ganz cool eigentlich. So, ja. Und wenn man so Sachen einfach ein bisschen mit ein bisschen mehr Liebe irgendwie im Detail macht's ja auch ganz cool.\n\nSo, habt ihr noch irgendwas, über das ihr gerne gesprochen hättet und euch denkt, wieso hat mich weder der Dave noch der Jan danach gefragt, ich wollte unbedingt über XYZ treten, diese Trottel, ja. Amateure.\n\nSpeaker 3: Nee. Nee, nicht wirklich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wunderbar. Dann wären wir fast am Ende, aber Dave, was kommt?\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh, meine Lieblingskategorie, take of the Dave, was ich mir nicht spontan während der Folge einfallen habe lassen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dave, was hast Du dabei?\n\nSpeaker 1: Hey, ja, voll cool. Ich hatte mir, weil wir jetzt hier über VR und AR und so was alles reden, jetzt kann ich ja endlich mal sagen Beatsaybern, das würde ich verloren, weil Beatsayence echt lustig ist. Ja. Ich mein ich mein ich mein Tiny Fins. Richtig.\n\nDas das muss ich Wobei, oh, ich hab ich hab auch eine Recherche, oh, ich muss kurz ausschwenken. Der rote Faden würde richtig ersichtlich. Ja, der rote Faden. Und zwar ich ich war ich war natürlich auch auf euer Website von und mein Lieblingsding war einfach Dancing Sterni. Geil.\n\nSpeaker 2: Da ist auch eine kurze Anekdote dazu, weil\n\nSpeaker 0: Manuel, ihr müsst erst erstellen, was das ist für alle da draußen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Okay, also ihr STERNi ist das Markenzeichen, das Maskottchen von Sternburg, der Biermarke, ist vor allem so im westlichen Raum Leipzig und so bekannt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh, in Berlin, in Berlin Riedries nur.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, genau. Hatten auch zu denen gepitcht und wir haben eine Sachen wollt mitgebracht und so was am Ende, wollten die davon nix, haben uns aber 'n kleines Präsent mitgegeben. Dann sind wir wir sind im Auto angefahren, am Ende mit acht Kästen Sternburg zurückgefahren und das war auch einfach, das war schön. Da hat\n\nSpeaker 1: sich die Arbeit gelohnt, ne?\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, auf jeden Fall, nee, da sind wir extra hochgefahren, haben dann noch eine kleine Tour durch die Fabriken gekriegt und so, haben mit dem Marketingdirektor gesprochen und haben dann aber herausgefunden, dass Sternburg kein also ein Ding von denen ist, dass die kein Geld für Marketing ausgeben. Und weil die sind so Und\n\nSpeaker 2: das hat sie euch neu vorher gesagt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Netzläufer. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 3: Weil die sind so ein bisschen ja punkig würde ich fast sagen, so von ihrer Art.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ach krass, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und genau. Wieso hat eine Firma, die kein Geld für Marketing ausgibt, 'n Marketing Director?\n\nSpeaker 3: Das ist eine gute Frage.\n\nSpeaker 1: Der sagt immer, nein. Machen wir nicht nein.\n\nSpeaker 3: Genau und dann hat mir son paar Sachen vorbereitet und ein Prototyp war quasi, dass so die Sternburgdose, dass die erkannt wird vom Handy und das dann quasi das Maskottchen, was son kleiner, fast schon son Stoffseestern mit 'nem Kronkorken aufm Rücken son bisschen updänced, genau ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sehr sympathisch fand ich sehr cool. Es war keine Werbung für Sternburg, aber trinkt jetzt alle in Sternburg. Ja. Nee genau. Und zwar was ich wirklich cool fand und zwar weil Du ja auch Jan bisschen so über diese Zugänglichkeit von Entwicklung angesprochen hast.\n\nDa muss ich sagen, ich ich ich komm ja eigentlich ausm Bereich der Bioinformatik und deswegen war ja dieser Bereich Extended Reality war für mich so was ganz neu, aber ich dachte mir so, ich bin jemand, hey, ich bin supersprunghaft, ich hab da Bock drauf, das sieht cool aus, ich mach da jetzt mal 'n Projekt Und ich war wirklich erstaunt, wie leicht es einem gemacht wurde und das war zweitausendzweiundzwanzig, okay, ist nicht mehr super, also. Aber schon, also hat sich bis heute wahrscheinlich viel getan und wie wie zugänglich und einfach das alles war. Und deswegen würd ich zwei Dinge für nämlich empfehlen. Und einmal war's dieses AR Foundation, wovon wir geredet haben, was halt natürlich diese ganze Abstraktionsschicht dann übernimmt, ne. Und dann auch so dieses und auch diese Oklusionen, die Du ja, glaub ich, genannt hast.\n\nGenau, dass das auch schon mit drin Und dieses XR Interaction Toolkit.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das gibt's ja auch noch. Ja. Genau, wo wo Du dann halt einfach Dinge anfassen kannst, bewegen und so interagieren mit statischen Objekten, wie zum Beispiel irgendwie so ganze Leiter hochklettern und so was alles. Das wird da alles und warum ich da in dem Bereich jetzt auch Unity empfehlen würde, weil also der Einstieg war wirklich sehr, sehr einfach und ich hab auch sehr lange kein Gerät gebraucht, was halt irgendwie Virtual Reality oder Augmented Reality kann, weil dieser dieser Playmode, der wir auch hier paarmal ja angeschnitten. Ja.\n\nDer der der ich find, der reicht so gut für die Entwicklung aus, dass man da sich son Überblick schaffen kann, ah okay, das funktioniert das das nicht und so. Das sieht alles so und so aus. Und dann portierst Du's einfach auf dein Gerät und dann funktioniert's eigentlich auch recht gut. Natürlich hier und da hast Du aber Schnittstellen, die nicht so\n\nSpeaker 0: optimal sind.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber deswegen meine Empfehlung für alle, die ja interessiert sind und irgendwie mal was Neues entdecken wollen. Einfach mal machen, runterladen, die zwei Toolkits und ich glaub, mittlerweile ist der Einstieg auch noch viel angenehmer geworden als noch von vor zwei Jahren. Die Community ist auch superlieb. Ich war da in Foren unterwegs. Da waren immer so zehn Leute aktiv und dann irgendwie hat man sich gegenseitig ausgeholfen, weil irgendwas nicht kompatibel war mit irgend 'ner bestimmten Version und ja, also wie gesagt, alle, die interessiert sind, einfach mal machen, ist sehr cool, macht sehr viel Spaß.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wunderbar. Robin, was hast Du dabei?\n\nSpeaker 3: Genau, ich hab, wir hatten's ja vorhin schon mal von Nintendo und von dem Art Style von Nintendo, das über Immersion und wir sind bei Dietrich auch riesen Nintendo Fans. Also tatsächlich war, wenn ich die erste Anschaffung im in unserem Office war eine Switch. Ja,\n\nSpeaker 2: ja. Und\n\nSpeaker 1: Von dem Arbeitslaptop. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 3: Den hatte man schon. Und genau, nee und da haben wir hat sich relativ schnell etabliert, dass wir da ist, kann man auch die Brücke zur Sternburg schlagen, aber wir machen ganz gerne mal so so Abende, wo wir Mario Kart spielen, sehr, sehr exzessiv und das ist quasi fast schon so wie in sonem Firmensport geworden, mal mit, mal ohne Alkohol dabei. Und genau, bei Mario Kart, das ist so verrückt, weil da sind bestimmt schon, weiß ich nicht, zweihundert Spielstunden reingeflossen. Ich werd jetzt auch gar keine Zahl festlegen in den letzten fünf Und man lernt immer wieder neue Sachen und eine Sache, die mich die ganze Zeit aufgeregt hat, ist, dass man, wenn man springt, wenn man über Hobel fährt sozusagen, dann kann man Tricks machen und je nachdem, in welche Richtung man in welche Richtung man den Joystick bewegt, macht man dann 'n Vorwärtsauto, 'n Rückwärtssalto oder macht wie son top Showwert nach links oder nach rechts. Und ich dachte die ganze Zeit, das bringt einfach gar nichts, das kann man random machen, aber es beeinflusst tatsächlich in wie steil der Drift danach geht.\n\nAlso wenn man quasi einen Sprung einen Trick nach rechts macht und danach in einen Rechtsdrift geht, dann kann ist der schärfer möglich oder andersrum, wenn Du einen Sprung nach links machst und dann in einen Rechtsdrift gehst, dann ist der Drift weiter als der normale Drift und so kannst Du dann son bisschen streckenmäßig noch was dazulernen. Also das war jetzt meine mein Pick of the day, das fand ich irgendwie interessant.\n\nSpeaker 1: So krass, sone versteckte Mechanik, aber oh so mächtig. Ja. Geil.\n\nSpeaker 0: Richtig nice. Abgefahren, abgefahren. Wunderbar. Mario Kart, Easy to learn hard to master. Okay.\n\nUnd die haben haben die nicht glaube ich auch das Rubberbanding erfunden.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich glaube auch nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Hat Nintendo nicht 'n Patent da drauf oder so?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ah, das wusste ich nicht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Na, glaube ich nicht. Ich glaube so was ich nieed for Speed oder so macht das auch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja gut, das ist ja auch schon, ich meine das bestimmt schon ausgelaufen oder sowas bei den. Ich glaube, die haben die haben damals son Paper darüber geschrieben so. Ach krass. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 3: Also die machen's auf jeden Fall, dass das Game, wo ich sage, es ist am auffälligsten. Also Riverbanding ist das 'n Begriff oder so? Ja für uns\n\nSpeaker 0: ja wahrscheinlich schon, aber Du kannst es auch gerne erklären.\n\nSpeaker 3: Also das heißt eigentlich im Prinzip, dass sich die Bots an den ersten Platz anpassen. Also quasi, dass Du, wenn der erste Platz richtig weit vorne ist, dann fahren die Bots schneller, daran anzuschließen und das ist natürlich zum Leid von allen, die schlechter fahren als der erste Platz, weil dann natürlich die Bots anstrengender sind. Aber\n\nSpeaker 0: auch andersrum, das ist ja auch in den in der Itemvergabe zum Beispiel, wenn Du weiter hinten bist, kriegst Du halt coolere Items, damit Du eine Chance hast, es wieder aufzuholen, weil Rubberbanding ja zum einen das Feld vorne zusammenhalten soll, aber auch verhindern soll das hinten zu viele Ausreißer, deswegen ja so Rubberband, weil das so alle\n\nSpeaker 2: zusammenzieht. Oh, da fand ich\n\nSpeaker 1: auch super interessante Mechanik. Da hab ich letztens gesehen, jemand hat sich absichtlich auf den letzten Platz gebracht,\n\nSpeaker 0: hat dann glaube ich irgendwie Blauen Panzer geholt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nein, nein, nein. Und hatte dann Kugel Willi und hat dann einfach aber das ganze Zeit gehalten, bis er Erster war und halt quasi dann, falls 'n blauer Panzer kommt, einfach das aktiviert. Das fand ich so schlau. Ja. Da war er so schlau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das war eine Zeit lang war das wohl online die beste Strategie, sogar am Anfang zu bremsen und hinten zu starten. Es wurd vor 'n paar Monaten gepatcht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ah, okay, ich wollt sagen, ja, sehr cheep.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Verrückt. Verrückt Kart. Ja. Mein, ich wollte irgendwas zu VR irgendwie mitbringen als Pick of the day und dann dachte ich irgendwie ist das 'n bisschen, weiß nicht, das ist son son bisschen elitär.\n\nDas kann jetzt vielleicht nicht jeder irgendwie da draußen nachvollziehen, Aber ich habe letzte Woche Submerged geguckt, diesen Kurzfilm, den Apple veröffentlicht hat für die Mission Pro.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich muss auch noch gucken.\n\nSpeaker 0: Der geht so, ich glaube, eine Viertelstunde oder so ist das, das spielt in 'nem U-Boot und das ist super interessant, so, ja. Okay. Weil es natürlich, also die ersten Immersive Filme, die Apple gemacht hat, waren ja alle so ein riesen Open Space oder diese Tierducos in der Savanne oder irgendwie in den Bergen oben und bla, das hat dir so ein Gefühl von Größe gegeben und jetzt ist das erste Mal so andersrum. Es gibt ja so ein Gefühl von Enge. Da hast Du irgendwie diese Vision Pro und auf einmal bist Du in so 'nem U-Boot, was nur so zwei, drei Meter dich rum ist und Du hörst irgendwie Geräusche von hinter dir und von vor dir und Du bist dann die ganze Zeit am Umgucken und sowas, glaube ich, auch für diejenigen, die so Filme machen, super schwierig.\n\nWir haben vorhin darüber gesprochen, so beim Debugging, Du musst auf einmal auf alles achten, ich glaub beim Filmemachen auch so und nicht nur musst Du auf alles achten, dass alles gut aussieht, sondern musst auch eigentlich überall son bisschen was was bieten, was sich lohnt anzugucken.\n\nSpeaker 3: So, ja,\n\nSpeaker 0: wenn Du son son Film machst und das merkt man ja schon ganz gut, also egal in welche kleine Ecke vorm Boot Du guckst, irgendwo flickert son Licht oder es läuft sone sone Maus oder sone Kakerlake irgendwie durchs Bild oder so ist immer so son bisschen Move drin. Mhm. Und das war war super spannend, weil's halt beides so irgendwie schafften. Es gibt so Szenen, die sind im Boot, wo Du dich so sehr klaustrophobisch und son bisschen horrormäßig fühlst, wenn da komische Geräusche in langen, leeren Tunneln irgendwie sind und es gibt so Aufnahmen, Szenen, wo Du so außerhalb vom U-Boot quasi das Boot fährt so an dir vorbei, das ist so der Opener, ja, das spoilert man jetzt, glaube ich, nicht so viel. Es hat son bisschen was, wie wenn ihr mal Hand for Rack of Oktober geguckt habt, ja, dieses klassische U-Boot-Film schon Connery.\n\nDer Film fängt an, also Sub Merch fängt an, Du bist so im Meer, die Kamera ist im Meer, dich rum nur blau und auf einmal fährt so fünf Meter über dir halt so dieses Riesen-U-Boot drüber, ja, mit so Immersive Sound, das ist schon richtig richtig abgefallen. Also ich weiß nicht, ob ich zwei Stunden mir son richtig langen Spielfilm auf 'ner Vision Pro angucken könnte, allein so ergonomisch. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wie lange ist jetzt Submerge?\n\nSpeaker 0: Fünfzehn Minuten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Fünfzehn Minuten, okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber die fünfzehn Minuten zeigen halt sehr gut auf, wohin dieses Medium irgendwie gehen könnte, ja. Und es gibt, kann ich mit dazu empfehlen, so als Side Pick, gibt auch son Making of und Behind the Scenes, wo sagt, sag ich, was für was für 'n Kamera Rick brauchst Du halt, irgendwie so Szenen filmen zu können, wie musst Du vielleicht deine Kulisse irgendwie anders aufbauen, Platz und mehr Winkel irgendwie zu ermöglichen und sowas, alles ist auch mega cool. Also a den Film erstmal gucken und danach sich die Magic 'n bisschen versauen und das Making of irgendwie gucken, aber auch beides super interessant.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, was mir dazu noch einfällt ist, ist natürlich gerade für solche Sachen ist ja die, sind ja VR Brillen noch viel krasser, aber wenn Du schon son bisschen klaustrophobisch veranlagt bist und würden die Wände immer näher kommen ja physisch, das ist natürlich dann auch 'n viel intensiveres Erlebnis, gerade dann noch, da sind wir auch wieder bei Musik ist auch natürlich wichtig für die Immersion und gerade die Film Pro hat relativ gute Lautsprecher, gerade für die winzige Größe und tatsächlich fühlt sich dann auch das so an, als würde es aus dem Raum kommen. Was son Riesending ist bei dreihundertsechzig Grad Videos oder bei VR Filmenmaking ist natürlich auch, Du hast jetzt nicht direkt Schnitte, also und verschiedene Kameraperspektiven. Also wenn Du die Aufmerksamkeit von dem, der guckst, der guckt auf auf einen bestimmten Gegenstand blenden willst, dann kannst Du nicht einfach cut und nah rangehen, sondern Du musst es dann irgendwie an, also Du könntest schon, aber\n\nSpeaker 0: Also das machen sie auch, aber nur nur ganz ganz selten und halt für so ganz bewusste Effekte, wo Du auf einmal, Du siehst so zwei Leute irgendwie in der in der Offiziersmesse sitzen, wie sie so reden.\n\nSpeaker 1: Zu viele Spoiler schon.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nein, nein, nein.\n\nSpeaker 2: Leute reden. Und auf einmal ist bist\n\nSpeaker 0: Du halt so zehn Zentimeter an dem Face von dem so dran, weil er halt gerade was super wichtiges und eindringliches irgendwie so sagt, ja. Mut stehen. Dafür kannst Du es halt machen. Das spoiler ich jetzt nicht, muss ich selber gucken.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, finde ich.\n\nSpeaker 1: Dafür kannst Du\n\nSpeaker 0: es halt machen, aber während dem normalen Storytelling, da wird halt viel mehr so mit mit Schwenks und mit so Focus Shift und sowas gearbeitet und so deine Aufmerksamkeit zu lenken und nicht mit drei verschiedenen Kamerawinkeln, wo Du die ganze Zeit so hin und her hüpfst. Mhm. Mhm. Ja. Gut.\n\nSabine, was hast Du dabei?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, genau. Was ich dabei hab, ist auf jeden Fall für alle Leute, die sagen, oh, normale Drogen, die sind nicht hart genug für mich. Oh Gott. Factorio. Ja.\n\nAlso vor allem jetzt am Montag kam die neue Expansion raus.\n\nSpeaker 1: Klar, ist\n\nSpeaker 0: die Folge auch als schon Splang. Explicicite.\n\nSpeaker 2: Schon wieder.\n\nSpeaker 0: Factorio Space Age, sorry.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also nee, der Richtigmachkeitsfaktor ist bei Factorio zumindest bei mir persönlich extrem groß. Das ist schon schon krass, weil Du hast immer noch das nächste, was Du optimieren kannst und dann hast Du das optimiert und dann sagst, ach nee, ich kann dir aber auch noch das optimieren und es geht unendlich weiter und jetzt mit der neuen Expansion ist es nicht nur auf einen Planeten, sondern man hat jetzt auch noch mehr Planeten, den man optimieren kann. Ja, es ist schwer, das alles irgendwie dann auch noch zu balancen mit Arbeit und Freundin und so. Einfach nicht machen, nicht arbeiten, keine Freundin. Ja.\n\nLinefake, Lifefake.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Linefake, nicht arbeiten gehen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nicht arbeiten und keine Freundin. Pick of the day. Meiner.\n\nSpeaker 0: Bitte nicht. Bitte nicht, ich seh schon die die Mails reinkommen. Ja, hast Du's, seit wann ist das draußen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Seit Montag, also die Expansion. Factorio gibt's natürlich schon seit Jahren, aber das war jetzt die große neue Expansion. Sie hab jahrelang daran gearbeitet und genau, also ich hab jetzt erst zweihundert Stunden in Factorio, also das sind noch kleine\n\nSpeaker 1: Zeit Releases DLCs.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nein, nein, nein, das wär\n\nSpeaker 0: kein Witz.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, aber Du merkst einfach, die haben da so viel Zeit reingesteckt, das ist alles so gut durchdacht, also ich freu mich richtig, da noch weiter zu explorieren.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich glaube, das ist auch son Spiel, was einfach unbegrenzt lange laufen kann eigentlich, weil Du immer mehr Mechanik einfach dazu bauen kannst.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Cool und auch übrigens eine coole Modszene ja auch hat. Also wer einfach selber bisschen was rumschrauben will da in Factorio, ist auch ganz nice. Ja, wunderbar, dann war's das, sind wir durch. Yes. Letzte Frage, letztes Kommentar irgendwas.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nein, ich möchte sagen vielen Dank, dass ihr hier wart. Das war sehr sehr cool. Sehr coole Folge, hat sehr viel Spaß gemacht. Ich glaub, Jan schließt sich da einfach mit an.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich hab auch Spaß gehabt.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, danke, dass wir hier sein durften.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich hoffe alle Zuhörennen hatten sehr viel Spaß dabei. Bestimmt. Und dann wär's das von uns. Vielen Dank fürs Zuhören. Wunderbar.\n\nUnd wenn ihr\n\nSpeaker 0: uns erreichen wollt, Feedback, Anmerkungen, Kritik, Rückfragen zu irgendwelchen Drogen, nur den legalen. Factorio. Dann immer gerne an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder ihr hinterlasst Kommentare auf den Social Media Kanälen, wo ihr uns findet oder überall da, wo ihr unseren Podcast hört und bis bald. Tschau, tschau,\n\nSpeaker 1: macht's gut. Tschüssi. Tschüss.",[44436,44441,44446,44454,44463,44470,44474,44485,44495,44499,44504,44511,44515,44520,44524,44532,44536,44549,44556,44569,44578,44590,44600,44605,44612,44620,44626,44634,44645,44656,44665,44676,44683,44696,44701,44705,44712,44719,44723,44730,44741,44747,44751,44763,44776,44780,44784,44791,44794,44801,44805,44814,44818,44825,44836,44841,44853,44857,44864,44872,44879,44886,44896,44908,44913,44917,44926,44938,44951,44960,44965,44969,44981,44989,44999,45009,45022,45034,45037,45041,45053,45065,45073,45086,45093,45106,45119,45126,45138,45142,45145,45157,45168,45172,45183,45187,45193,45199,45208,45212,45218,45221,45231,45235,45242,45246,45254,45258,45262,45269,45273,45283,45287,45292,45300,45305,45309,45317,45330,45340,45344,45351,45357,45360,45373,45378,45390,45401,45413,45423,45432,45437,45441,45447,45450,45456,45465,45478,45489,45502,45510,45521,45525,45536,45547,45551,45554,45558,45562,45571,45575,45579,45584,45595,45599,45611,45622,45629,45640,45649,45653,45657,45662,45666,45672,45677,45688,45698,45704,45709,45713,45718,45722,45725,45729,45741,45746,45758,45762,45766,45772,45785,45789,45795,45801,45814,45822,45834,45845,45848,45860,45873,45885,45889,45897,45909,45913,45925,45931,45942,45951,45964,45968,45974,45980,45986,45990,45995,45999,46005,46009,46015,46019,46023,46034,46047,46058,46068,46074,46078,46090,46099,46103,46108,46113,46122,46126,46130,46134,46146,46150,46157,46163,46167,46172,46183,46191,46197,46201,46207,46220,46224,46228,46236,46240,46249,46253,46258,46269,46275,46284,46293,46297,46301,46306,46310,46318,46322,46326,46330,46335,46341,46347,46351,46361,46374,46378,46384,46388,46392,46396,46400,46404,46410,46414,46418,46423,46426,46433,46437,46444,46453,46457,46470,46476,46488,46495,46508,46514,46519,46524,46528,46532,46543,46555,46559,46563,46568,46572,46582,46586,46592,46596,46600,46604,46608,46613,46617,46623,46627,46638,46650,46654,46657,46667,46677,46681,46694,46699,46706,46710,46715,46728,46734,46740,46750,46754,46758,46762,46766,46772,46781,46789,46793,46801,46805,46810,46816,46820,46831,46837,46841,46850,46854,46858,46870,46874,46878,46889,46896,46900,46904,46908,46916,46925,46929,46933,46936,46942,46952,46956,46960,46969,46973,46982,46986,46990,46995,46999,47003,47015,47019,47024,47031,47039,47047,47051,47055,47059,47063,47067,47070,47081,47091,47095,47099,47109,47113,47122],{"sentences":44437,"speaker":507,"num_words":44440,"start":505,"end":619},[44438],{"text":44439,"start":505,"end":619},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einer neuen Folge bei einem Programmierbad DeepDive, heute wie immer aus der Saline in Bad Nauheim und gegenüber mir im Tonstudio sitzt der",28,{"sentences":44442,"speaker":487,"num_words":44445,"start":623,"end":657},[44443],{"text":44444,"start":623,"end":657},"Dave, hi, es es freut mich sehr hier zu sein.",10,{"sentences":44447,"speaker":507,"num_words":44453,"start":657,"end":782},[44448,44449,44451],{"text":665,"start":657,"end":662},{"text":44450,"start":662,"end":761},"Mein Dave, als ich heute Morgen hier reingekommen bin, hast Du unten bei uns in der Alm im Meetingraum gesessen und wilde Tai Chi Übungen gemacht.",{"text":44452,"start":766,"end":782},"Was hast Du da getan?",32,{"sentences":44455,"speaker":487,"num_words":44462,"start":782,"end":899},[44456,44458,44460],{"text":44457,"start":782,"end":796},"Tai Chi Übungen tatsächlich.",{"text":44459,"start":801,"end":887},"Das ist mein Morgenritual und dann habe ich aber auch noch natürlich die Apple Vision Pro aufgesetzt und 'n bisschen Tiny Finn gespielt.",{"text":44461,"start":892,"end":899},"Ah, okay.",29,{"sentences":44464,"speaker":507,"num_words":44469,"start":904,"end":965},[44465,44467],{"text":44466,"start":904,"end":956},"So einen Zufall aber auch, wir haben nämlich heute die Macher von Tiny Finns gesehen.",{"text":44468,"start":956,"end":965},"Ach was,",17,{"sentences":44471,"speaker":487,"num_words":1287,"start":965,"end":979},[44472],{"text":44473,"start":965,"end":979},"ja, ist verrückt.",{"sentences":44475,"speaker":507,"num_words":44469,"start":979,"end":1048},[44476,44478,44480,44481,44483],{"text":44477,"start":979,"end":993},"Wirklich, So Zufall.",{"text":44479,"start":993,"end":1006},"Wo sind sie?",{"text":44479,"start":1006,"end":1015},{"text":44482,"start":1015,"end":1031},"Sitzen dir genau gegenüber.",{"text":44484,"start":1031,"end":1048},"Hallo Robin, hallo Sebi.",{"sentences":44486,"speaker":507,"num_words":44494,"start":1052,"end":1131},[44487,44488,44489,44491,44492],{"text":1055,"start":1052,"end":1053},{"text":1055,"start":1053,"end":1057},{"text":44490,"start":1062,"end":1092},"Ihr seid das Studio Detached aus Offenbach, richtig?",{"text":1100,"start":1092,"end":1097},{"text":44493,"start":1103,"end":1131},"Also nicht Offenbach, aber wunderbar, dass ihr da seid?",20,{"sentences":44496,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1287,"start":1131,"end":1144},[44497],{"text":44498,"start":1131,"end":1144},"Ja, ja, ja.",{"sentences":44500,"speaker":487,"num_words":44503,"start":1149,"end":1174},[44501],{"text":44502,"start":1149,"end":1174},"Oh, direkt am Anfang der Hate, ja.",7,{"sentences":44505,"speaker":507,"num_words":44510,"start":1177,"end":1282},[44506,44508],{"text":44507,"start":1177,"end":1257},"Ja, also ich hab ja in Frankfurt studiert und mein Statistikprofessor hat so gefühlt jede Vorlesung damit angefangen mit, was ist das Schönste an.",{"text":44509,"start":1257,"end":1282},"Offen macht der Blick nach Frankfurt und",31,{"sentences":44512,"speaker":1287,"num_words":1137,"start":1282,"end":1291},[44513],{"text":44514,"start":1282,"end":1291},"so, ja.",{"sentences":44516,"speaker":487,"num_words":44519,"start":1291,"end":1304},[44517],{"text":44518,"start":1291,"end":1304},"Ja, aber das ist",4,{"sentences":44521,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1137,"start":1304,"end":1313},[44522],{"text":44523,"start":1304,"end":1313},"ja Klassiker",{"sentences":44525,"speaker":507,"num_words":44531,"start":1313,"end":1336},[44526,44528,44529],{"text":44527,"start":1313,"end":1322},"macht sich.",{"text":1329,"start":1322,"end":1326},{"text":44530,"start":1326,"end":1336},"Offen macht sich.",6,{"sentences":44533,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1137,"start":1336,"end":1342},[44534],{"text":44535,"start":1336,"end":1342},"Ja, da",{"sentences":44537,"speaker":507,"num_words":44548,"start":1342,"end":1711},[44538,44540,44542,44544,44546],{"text":44539,"start":1342,"end":1421},"können wir vielleicht auch gleich noch mal, also finde ich wirklich von der Start up Szene können wir vielleicht auch noch mal drüber sprechen.",{"text":44541,"start":1421,"end":1453},"Aber schön, dass ihr auf alle Fälle hier seid.",{"text":44543,"start":1453,"end":1487},"Wir wollten nämlich heute mal ein bisschen über Game Development sprechen.",{"text":44545,"start":1487,"end":1603},"Wir kommen ja auch aus dem Game Development und wir fanden das mal besonders interessant über VR Development im Speziellen zu sprechen und ihr wart ja schon mal bei uns auf einem About Design Event und habt da Tiny Fins vorgestellt.",{"text":44547,"start":1607,"end":1711},"Und weil das so cool war, dachten wir, das ist bestimmt auch für alle Leute da draußen interessant, die leider nicht zu uns kommen konnten und den Talk hören konnten und deshalb sprechen wir hier noch mal darüber.",123,{"sentences":44550,"speaker":507,"num_words":44555,"start":1714,"end":1826},[44551,44553],{"text":44552,"start":1714,"end":1764},"Vielleicht bevor wir da ins Detail sprechen, wie seid ihr überhaupt in den VR Zaubertrank gefallen?",{"text":44554,"start":1764,"end":1826},"Was hat euch da inspiriert, mit eurem ganzen Studio im Prinzip in diese Richtung zu gehen und wo kommt ihr eigentlich her?",38,{"sentences":44557,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44568,"start":1829,"end":2324},[44558,44560,44562,44564,44566],{"text":44559,"start":1829,"end":1835},"Ja, gut.",{"text":44561,"start":1835,"end":2006},"Also generell wie a, ich würd's eigentlich größer fassen, eher so dieser Bereich Augmented Reality, Mixed Reality, weil also Virtual Reality würden wir jetzt klassischerweise als das bezeichnen, dann sagen wir, Du hast die Vision Pro auf und Du siehst wirklich gar nichts mehr von der Umgebung, Du bist komplett in der virtuellen Welt.",{"text":44563,"start":2006,"end":2098},"Jetzt bei unserem Spiel Tiny Fins, wo man einfach so Fische durch den Raum steuern kann, siehst Du ja noch die echte Welt, also das wär dann eher so Mixed Reality.",{"text":44565,"start":2102,"end":2255},"Wir haben schon vor, als wir angefangen haben, vor fünf Jahren, also als wir DITEC gegründet haben, da hatten wir mit Augmented Reality losgelegt und das war lustigerweise auch von Anfang an hatten wir so geträumt, oh mein Gott, wenn Apple die Brille raus bringt, das wird der Moment, dann wird a a groß.",{"text":44567,"start":2258,"end":2324},"Ich weiß jetzt noch nicht, ob a a wirklich groß jetzt ist, aber das war son bisschen der Startpunkt, wirklich halt a a auf dem Handy.",167,{"sentences":44570,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44577,"start":2327,"end":2574},[44571,44573,44575],{"text":44572,"start":2327,"end":2444},"Und es war schon immer für mich, ich glaub die Magie ist für mich in über die Jahre völlig son kleines bisschen flöten gegangen, aber einfach dieser Moment zu zeigen, hey, ich hab hier 'n Modell, das steht jetzt auf meinem Tisch.",{"text":44574,"start":2444,"end":2485},"Auf einmal ist diese Brücke zwischen digitaler Welt und der echten Welt auf einmal geschlossen.",{"text":44576,"start":2488,"end":2574},"Du zeigst es Leuten, die sind begeistert und dieser Moment ist halt einfach richtig cool und den, ja, versucht man auch noch mit der Vision Pro halt immer noch wieder zu capturen, so ungefähr.",91,{"sentences":44579,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44589,"start":2577,"end":2905},[44580,44582,44584,44586,44588],{"text":44581,"start":2577,"end":2694},"Also grundsätzlich ist es auch so, also man hat ja dann diese ganzen Sci Fi Filme im Kopf, Du hast dann irgendwie Iron Man, der mit seinem Javis Interface irgendwelche Hologramme in die Luft steigen lässt und alles Mögliche.",{"text":44583,"start":2698,"end":2794},"Du kannst quasi, AR ist, glaube ich, das, was was an Technik am ehesten, an an Magie oder so was rankommt, wie Du dich wie Du dir selbst quasi Superkräfte verleihen kannst.",{"text":44585,"start":2798,"end":2874},"Und lustigerweise, wir haben damals aber richtig low gestartet, also als wir mit detecht angefangen haben, da sind wir erst mal ins Face Filter Business eingestiegen.",{"text":44587,"start":2874,"end":2900},"Also wir haben sie quasi für Instagram Snapchat.",{"text":2902,"start":2904,"end":2905},106,{"sentences":44591,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44599,"start":2909,"end":3121},[44592,44594,44595,44597],{"text":44593,"start":2909,"end":2996},"Genau und hatten dann aber auch tatsächlich so unseren ersten bisschen größeren Kunden, da haben wir dann Facefilter für Gustavo Gusto gemacht, also die Pizza Marke, ich weiß nicht.",{"text":3004,"start":3000,"end":3001},{"text":44596,"start":3006,"end":3052},"Und genau ja, so so haben wir dann quasi, so sind wir dann in das ganze AR Thema eingestiegen.",{"text":44598,"start":3054,"end":3121},"Eigentlich kommen wir ja aus dem interaktiven Medienbereich, also wir haben Interaktiv Media Design studiert in Dieburg und grundsätzlich Das ist so",71,{"sentences":44601,"speaker":507,"num_words":44604,"start":3121,"end":3166},[44602],{"text":44603,"start":3121,"end":3166},"in der Nähe von Darmstadt, für alle, die da draußen jetzt vielleicht nicht die Burg kennen.",16,{"sentences":44606,"speaker":487,"num_words":44611,"start":3166,"end":3203},[44607,44609],{"text":44608,"start":3166,"end":3180},"Ich kann das auch nicht.",{"text":44610,"start":3180,"end":3203},"Ich hab's auch vermutlich irgendwo in Hessen.",12,{"sentences":44613,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44619,"start":3203,"end":3354},[44614,44615,44617],{"text":3004,"start":3203,"end":3207},{"text":44616,"start":3207,"end":3285},"Genau irgendwo in Hessen, genau und Mixed Reality grundsätzlich oder interaktive Anwendungen, das muss gar nicht auch unbedingt mit 'ner Brille oder mit 'nem Handy zu tun haben.",{"text":44618,"start":3285,"end":3354},"Also das kann zum Beispiel auch, wer noch die alten Playstation Games kennt, wo Du vor 'ner Kamera stehst und irgendwelche Scheiben putzt",52,{"sentences":44621,"speaker":487,"num_words":505,"start":3354,"end":3384},[44622,44624],{"text":44623,"start":3354,"end":3371},"oder I Toy, ja.",{"text":44625,"start":3371,"end":3384},"I Toy, oh grandios.",{"sentences":44627,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44633,"start":3388,"end":3452},[44628,44630,44632],{"text":44629,"start":3388,"end":3407},"Genau, das fällt da auch voll rein.",{"text":44631,"start":3407,"end":3446},"Also es ist quasi nicht gar nicht mal nur unbedingt Smartphone oder Brillen bezogen.",{"text":3454,"start":3451,"end":3452},22,{"sentences":44635,"speaker":507,"num_words":44644,"start":3456,"end":3567},[44636,44638,44640,44642],{"text":44637,"start":3456,"end":3477},"Okay, so seid ihr also zu VR gekommen.",{"text":44639,"start":3481,"end":3492},"Wie kommt VR zu euch?",{"text":44641,"start":3492,"end":3541},"Also jetzt seid ihr ja eine Agentur und seid ihr auch auf irgendwie Auftragsarbeiten wahrscheinlich angewiesen so.",{"text":44643,"start":3541,"end":3567},"Wie wie interessieren sich die Leute da draußen dafür?",39,{"sentences":44646,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44655,"start":3571,"end":3727},[44647,44649,44651,44653,44654],{"text":44648,"start":3571,"end":3638},"Also, ich mein, das meiste, was wir machen, wirklich dann so was Auftragsarbeiten angeht und dann VRMR ist einfach wirklich so Messekontext meistens.",{"text":44650,"start":3638,"end":3674},"Also, die Sache halt immer noch heutzutage ist ja, wer hat eine VR Brille?",{"text":44652,"start":3674,"end":3717},"Also ich mein, ihr kennt wahrscheinlich Leute, hier und da gibt's Leute, aber die meisten haben keine.",{"text":3725,"start":3722,"end":3723},{"text":3729,"start":3723,"end":3727},56,{"sentences":44657,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44664,"start":3727,"end":4060},[44658,44660,44662],{"text":44659,"start":3727,"end":3798},"Und das heißt, also und die meisten Leuten, wenn man denen eine VR Brille aufsetzt, ist es immer noch ihr erstes Mal, also auch auch heute noch.",{"text":44661,"start":3798,"end":3922},"Das heißt für so Kontexte wie eine Messe, wo Du einfach, wo Besucher hinkommen können und dann eine Brille aufbekommen und dann sozusagen die Hardware schon gegeben ist, ist der perfekte Kontext und das holt die Leute natürlich auf 'nem anderen Level noch mal ab.",{"text":44663,"start":3922,"end":4060},"Also, wenn man das jetzt zum Beispiel vergleicht mit 'ner Powerpoint Präsentation, also Du hast zwei D, Du hast einfach 'n paar Slides, hast 'n Perfects, das Ding zum Beispiel, das Auto, in drei D vor dir zu sehen, ist natürlich 'n ganz anderes Level.",117,{"sentences":44666,"speaker":507,"num_words":44675,"start":4060,"end":4369},[44667,44668,44669,44671,44673],{"text":3454,"start":4060,"end":4064},{"text":3004,"start":4064,"end":4067},{"text":44670,"start":4070,"end":4283},"Ist das was, wo ihr so aus UX Sicht son bisschen darauf achten müsstet, weil wenn ich mir jetzt son Produkt von euch wie Tinyfans angucke, ja, was ja für Leute gemacht ist, die zu Hause 'n eigenes Headset haben, Marke jetzt erst mal egal so, ja, aber die die kennen sich son bisschen in dem Space vielleicht schon aus und und wenn Du das auf der Messe das erste Mal aufbekommst, dann weißt Du ja wahrscheinlich so gar nichts darüber.",{"text":44672,"start":4283,"end":4288},"Also Ja.",{"text":44674,"start":4290,"end":4369},"Die Leute wissen, ich muss da 'n Controller benutzen, hab ich da eine Maus in der Hand, mach ich das mit Händen und und wenn ja, wie?",112,{"sentences":44677,"speaker":507,"num_words":44682,"start":4369,"end":4449},[44678,44680],{"text":44679,"start":4369,"end":4439},"Da musst Du ja wahrscheinlich eine eine sehr viel andere Anwendung gestalten, wenn Du's jetzt für den in Anführungszeichen Heimbedarf machst.",{"text":44681,"start":4444,"end":4449},"Einhundert Prozent.",23,{"sentences":44684,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44695,"start":4449,"end":4839},[44685,44687,44689,44691,44693],{"text":44686,"start":4449,"end":4542},"Also es ist dann halt wirklich so, dass man versucht vielleicht auch Interaktionen son bisschen zu vermeiden fast schon oder die wirklich extrem primitiv zu halten und auch, dass man einfach guckt, dass es gleich losgeht.",{"text":44688,"start":4545,"end":4593},"Also Tiny Fince startet ja zum Beispiel mit 'nem Tutorial, Du kriegst erst mal 'n Spiel beigebracht.",{"text":44690,"start":4593,"end":4662},"Du willst einfach diesen Step willst Du vermeiden, Du ziehst die Brille auf und mehr oder weniger los geht's und Du bist einfach nur Zuschauer.",{"text":44692,"start":4662,"end":4722},"Also bei einer Anwendung zum Beispiel, da haben wir halt auch 'n Moderator dabei, also es wär dann son Multiplayer sozusagen.",{"text":44694,"start":4725,"end":4839},"Es laufen mehrere Leute drum rum und der Moderator führt die Leute dann da durch und die können dann hier und da mal was machen, aber halt nicht die ganze Zeit und vor allem auch nichts Komplexes, was jetzt irgendwie krasse Gesten erfordert oder sowas.",144,{"sentences":44697,"speaker":487,"num_words":44445,"start":4843,"end":4872},[44698,44700],{"text":44699,"start":4843,"end":4869},"War das dieses Partyspiel oder welches Spiel war das?",{"text":3483,"start":4869,"end":4872},{"sentences":44702,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1137,"start":4872,"end":4880},[44703],{"text":44704,"start":4872,"end":4880},"meinst Du?",{"sentences":44706,"speaker":487,"num_words":44711,"start":4880,"end":4944},[44707,44709],{"text":44708,"start":4880,"end":4920},"Ihr habt ja so son Partyspiel, glaube ich, hab ich auf eurer Webseite gesehen.",{"text":44710,"start":4920,"end":4944},"War das das mit dem Moderator oder ist das was anderes?",25,{"sentences":44713,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44718,"start":4944,"end":5171},[44714,44716],{"text":44715,"start":4944,"end":5001},"Nicht direkt, also also es AR Party war war quasi einen Showcase, den wir ganz am Anfang mal gestartet hatten.",{"text":44717,"start":5001,"end":5171},"Da hatten wir unseren ersten fetten Auftrag, da hatten wir quasi lustigerweise, das war was für Honda, da haben wir auch gar nichts in Richtung AR gemacht, sondern es war es war es ging nur Prototyping und dann haben wir danach gesagt, komm, dann machen wir jetzt noch mal 'n geiles eigenes Ding, wir machen jetzt AR Party als Multiplayer, son bisschen Mario Party like",85,{"sentences":44720,"speaker":487,"num_words":1137,"start":5174,"end":5178},[44721],{"text":44722,"start":5174,"end":5178},"Ja, man.",{"sentences":44724,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44729,"start":5181,"end":5382},[44725,44727],{"text":44726,"start":5181,"end":5270},"Und haben dann aber da vier Monate reingesteckt und waren dann an 'nem Punkt, wo wir gesagt haben, dass das kostet uns jetzt noch mal mindestens vier Monate, das Release ready zu machen.",{"text":44728,"start":5273,"end":5382},"Wir starten jetzt 'n Kickstarter und der ist leider 'n bisschen gefloppt und deswegen ist AR Party einen sehr geiler Showcase, der uns mitunter 'n paar richtig coole Kunden eingetragen hat und auch die Apple Vision Pro, da kommen wir vielleicht später noch mal zu",78,{"sentences":44731,"speaker":507,"num_words":44740,"start":5384,"end":5568},[44732,44734,44736,44738],{"text":44733,"start":5384,"end":5391},"und genau ja.",{"text":44735,"start":5391,"end":5424},"Also ich muss sagen, es hat mich 'n bisschen betroffen gemacht, so.",{"text":44737,"start":5424,"end":5551},"Ich hab nämlich in der Recherche für die Folgen natürlich auch so eure Webseite durchforstet und hab auch eher Party gefunden, stand da so, ah, Kickstarter, direkt auf Kickstarter, ja, da werfen wir 'n bisschen Geld hinterher, das sieht irgendwie ganz cool aus.",{"text":44739,"start":5551,"end":5568},"Und dann hab ich's nicht mehr gefunden.",65,{"sentences":44742,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44746,"start":5572,"end":5594},[44743,44744],{"text":5576,"start":5572,"end":5573},{"text":44745,"start":5578,"end":5594},"Ja, das war vor vier Jahren oder so.",9,{"sentences":44748,"speaker":487,"num_words":1137,"start":5594,"end":5601},[44749],{"text":44750,"start":5594,"end":5601},"Ja, ja.",{"sentences":44752,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44762,"start":5601,"end":5765},[44753,44755,44757,44759,44760],{"text":44754,"start":5601,"end":5632},"Also wir wollten fünfundzwanzigtausend, wir haben irgendwie tausendfünfhundert bekommen oder so.",{"text":44756,"start":5632,"end":5652},"Ja, aber es war auch auch Mist.",{"text":44758,"start":5652,"end":5729},"Es war auch wirklich nicht so 'n oh mein Gott, das ist jetzt unser Lebensprojekt, es war eher so, sollen wir weitermachen oder nicht, wir lassen Kickstarter entscheiden.",{"text":3004,"start":5729,"end":5732},{"text":44761,"start":5732,"end":5765},"So und am Ende war das Projekt trotzdem einfach so wertvoll.",58,{"sentences":44764,"speaker":507,"num_words":44775,"start":5765,"end":5913},[44765,44767,44769,44771,44773],{"text":44766,"start":5765,"end":5828},"Okay, jetzt hat das mit dem Kickstarter vielleicht nicht gut funktioniert, aber ihr habt ja trotzdem dann mit Tiny Fins ein eigenes Produkt gemacht.",{"text":44768,"start":5828,"end":5835},"Richtig, richtig.",{"text":44770,"start":5839,"end":5852},"So, was war da anders?",{"text":44772,"start":5856,"end":5883},"Das ist, also warum habt ihr das bei tinyfins so durchgezogen?",{"text":44774,"start":5888,"end":5913},"Wieso hat es da funktioniert und wieso bei AR Party nicht?",53,{"sentences":44777,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44604,"start":5913,"end":5960},[44778],{"text":44779,"start":5913,"end":5960},"Gut, wir haben's bei tinyfins durchgezogen, weil wir das Dev Kit von der Vision Pro hatten.",{"sentences":44781,"speaker":507,"num_words":44746,"start":5960,"end":5984},[44782],{"text":44783,"start":5960,"end":5984},"Ist ein legitimer Grund, ja, kann man ja sagen.",{"sentences":44785,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44790,"start":5984,"end":6039},[44786,44788],{"text":44787,"start":5984,"end":5998},"Und der Scope natürlich.",{"text":44789,"start":5998,"end":6039},"Also lustigerweise haben wir quasi, wir hatten erst vor AR Party zu machen für die Vision Pro.",21,{"sentences":44792,"speaker":487,"num_words":487,"start":6039,"end":6044},[44793],{"text":6046,"start":6039,"end":6044},{"sentences":44795,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44800,"start":6048,"end":6334},[44796,44798],{"text":44797,"start":6048,"end":6178},"Und haben dann angefangen, Minigames zu prototypen für für AR Party, also quasi, Du hast immer eine Spielrunde würfeln und dann kommt Minispiel alle gegeneinander und dann geht's weiter und da haben wir halt, wir wollten halt nicht einfach die Minispiele recyceln, die wir schon hatten fürs Handy.",{"text":44799,"start":6178,"end":6334},"Das war dann irgendwie uns 'n bisschen zu wack und deswegen haben wir dann gesagt, wir wollen was, was halt geil auf der Vision funktioniert mit Gestensteuerung und mit mit voll Immersive vielleicht auch und dann haben wir halt einfach angefangen wild zu prototypen und soll ich's noch mal herleiten, wie wir von AR Party quasi zu Tiny Fins gekommen sind, genau?",110,{"sentences":44802,"speaker":507,"num_words":1287,"start":6334,"end":6343},[44803],{"text":44804,"start":6334,"end":6343},"Ja, warum nicht?",{"sentences":44806,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44813,"start":6346,"end":6791},[44807,44809,44811],{"text":44808,"start":6346,"end":6553},"Wir haben dann quasi how den Lukas geprototyped sozusagen und hatten dann quasi einfach 'n virtuellen Hammer an der Hand und haben halt dich rum sind Nägel im Raum erschienen, die Du in den Boden hauen konntest und uns ist aufgefallen, dass das einfach keinen Spaß macht, dass das nicht befriedigend ist, weil der Hammer hat keinen Widerstand und das Hand Tracking ist zwar sau gut, aber nicht so gut, dass der Hammer wirklich flüssig an deiner Hand klebt.",{"text":44810,"start":6553,"end":6783},"Das heißt, wenn Du 'n schnellen Schlag gemacht hast, dann war der Hammer schon so also quasi ist sie son bisschen in der Luft hängen geblieben und dann nachgezogen und dann ist ist Seppi auf die geile Idee gekommen das Ganze son bisschen zu isen, sodass der Hammer hinter deiner Hand her schwebt quasi, also dass der interpoliert zwischen den zwischen den Punkten und das gab direkt son der Hammer schwebt so der Hand hinterher Gefühl und das war schon das war schon echt fett.",{"text":44812,"start":6787,"end":6791},"Da haben",166,{"sentences":44815,"speaker":507,"num_words":44746,"start":6791,"end":6816},[44816],{"text":44817,"start":6791,"end":6816},"sie son bisschen wie Thor gefühlt willst Du sagen.",{"sentences":44819,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44644,"start":6818,"end":6948},[44820,44822,44823],{"text":44821,"start":6818,"end":6889},"Ja, nee, eigentlich fast eher wie, wen nehm ich als Beispiel, wie Katara von Legend The Last Air Bänder.",{"text":6895,"start":6893,"end":6894},{"text":44824,"start":6894,"end":6948},"Quasi, es hatte son bisschen son wasserbändigen Vibe, genau, wo wir bei Tai Chi Tai Chi haben wir auch.",{"sentences":44826,"speaker":507,"num_words":44835,"start":6948,"end":7000},[44827,44829,44831,44833],{"text":44828,"start":6948,"end":6957},"Ja, definitiv.",{"text":44830,"start":6957,"end":6977},"Bei Tai infiziert man das wieder.",{"text":44832,"start":6977,"end":6993},"Ja, ja, auf jeden Fall.",{"text":44834,"start":6993,"end":7000},"Ich bin",15,{"sentences":44837,"speaker":487,"num_words":44840,"start":7000,"end":7033},[44838],{"text":44839,"start":7000,"end":7033},"nicht sehr unfähig dabei gefühlt beim Wasserbändigen, aber es hat sich",11,{"sentences":44842,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44740,"start":7033,"end":7209},[44843,44845,44847,44849,44851],{"text":44844,"start":7033,"end":7046},"da da dran angefühlt.",{"text":44846,"start":7050,"end":7101},"Genau und dann haben wir gesagt, gut, was ist, wenn das jetzt kein Hammer ist, sondern was macht denn irgendwie Sinn?",{"text":44848,"start":7101,"end":7122},"Was schwimmt denn irgendwie so in der Luft rum?",{"text":44850,"start":7122,"end":7164},"Ja, 'n Fischschwarm wär vielleicht ganz cool und so ist dann quasi Tiny Finns entstanden.",{"text":44852,"start":7168,"end":7209},"Und wir konnten es dann durchziehen, weil's einfach 'n viel kleineren Scoup hat als AR Party.",{"sentences":44854,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44746,"start":7209,"end":7235},[44855],{"text":44856,"start":7209,"end":7235},"Also es ist wirklich, weiß ich nicht, 'n Zwanzigstel.",{"sentences":44858,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44863,"start":7239,"end":7388},[44859,44861],{"text":44860,"start":7239,"end":7319},"Aber wir hatten am Anfang auch wirklich debattiert, wird jetzt Tiny Fins, das hieß dann ja noch Tiny Fins nicht, wird es jetzt 'n Minispiel von AR Party oder machen wir 'n eigenes Ding draus?",{"text":44862,"start":7319,"end":7388},"Und dann wars irgendwann so, ey, wir haben bis Ende Januar Zeit, da wird 'n eigenes Ding draus und das war die richtige Entscheidung.",59,{"sentences":44865,"speaker":507,"num_words":44871,"start":7391,"end":7551},[44866,44867,44869],{"text":3004,"start":7391,"end":7392},{"text":44868,"start":7396,"end":7450},"Spielt da auch sone Überlegung mit rein, dass natürlich Multiplayer Titel auf sone VR Plattform generell noch mal schwieriger sind?",{"text":44870,"start":7450,"end":7551},"Also es ist ja schwierig genug, eine Person zu finden, die eine Brille hat und noch viel schwieriger zwei Personen zu finden, noch viel schwieriger zwei Personen, die im Zweifelsfall im selben Raum sind oder oder wie auch immer.",60,{"sentences":44873,"speaker":487,"num_words":44746,"start":7551,"end":7587},[44874,44875,44877],{"text":7559,"start":7551,"end":7556},{"text":44876,"start":7562,"end":7580},"Na ja, also Aus auf Konferenzen.",{"text":44878,"start":7583,"end":7587},"Wie viel",{"sentences":44880,"speaker":507,"num_words":44885,"start":7589,"end":7619},[44881,44883],{"text":44882,"start":7589,"end":7607},"VR Multiplayer hast Du denn schon gespielt, Dave?",{"text":44884,"start":7607,"end":7619},"Und Du hast eine Brille?",13,{"sentences":44887,"speaker":487,"num_words":44711,"start":7619,"end":7689},[44888,44890,44892,44893,44894],{"text":44889,"start":7619,"end":7645},"Null, aber ich leide auch super an Motion Sickness.",{"text":44891,"start":7645,"end":7658},"Das ist so richtig problematisch.",{"text":3454,"start":7658,"end":7661},{"text":7667,"start":7661,"end":7664},{"text":44895,"start":7664,"end":7689},"Aber sieht immer lustig aus, wenn Leute das spielen.",{"sentences":44897,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44577,"start":7692,"end":7930},[44898,44900,44902,44904,44906],{"text":44899,"start":7692,"end":7721},"Ja, aber das ist auf jeden Fall mit reingeflossen in den Gedankengang.",{"text":44901,"start":7725,"end":7766},"Und grade beim Release war's dann natürlich klar, dass der Release erst mal klein sein wird.",{"text":44903,"start":7770,"end":7803},"War, würd ich sagen, aber nicht der Hauptgrund am Ende des Tages.",{"text":44905,"start":7806,"end":7853},"Also, wir wollten halt auch einfach 'n geilen Showcase wieder draus machen oder irgendwas, was einfach an sich geil ist.",{"text":44907,"start":7857,"end":7930},"Und ich find dann auch immer son bisschen, gut, das wär dann vielleicht für weniger Leute, aber für die, also es wär dann wahrscheinlich der einzige Multiplayer Titel gewesen beim Launch.",{"sentences":44909,"speaker":1137,"num_words":505,"start":7930,"end":7951},[44910,44912],{"text":44911,"start":7930,"end":7947},"Also es wär auch wieder anders interessant.",{"text":1139,"start":7947,"end":7951},{"sentences":44914,"speaker":507,"num_words":1137,"start":7951,"end":7957},[44915],{"text":44916,"start":7951,"end":7957},"ja, ja.",{"sentences":44918,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44925,"start":7961,"end":8101},[44919,44921,44923],{"text":44920,"start":7961,"end":8028},"Wobei wir gemerkt haben, wir waren zumindest beim Launch gab's praktisch, es gab superwenige andere Games und praktisch keine, die halt auch irgendwie die Brille ausgenutzt hatten.",{"text":44922,"start":8028,"end":8065},"Also wirklich so dieses Ganze mit der Raumerkennung, wie die Hand getrackt wird, das alles.",{"text":44924,"start":8065,"end":8101},"Also deswegen, wir hatten schon genug eigentlich Alleinstellungsmerkmale dann am Ende des Tages.",55,{"sentences":44927,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44937,"start":8101,"end":8303},[44928,44930,44932,44934,44936],{"text":44929,"start":8101,"end":8113},"Das war fast schon lächerlich.",{"text":44931,"start":8113,"end":8185},"Also wir haben dann nach Release mal dreißig Apps runtergeladen, zu gucken, was macht die Konkurrenz und das wir waren wirklich, das war wirklich traurig teilweise.",{"text":44933,"start":8185,"end":8268},"Also das ist inzwischen ganz anders, also inzwischen sind die gut nachgezogen, aber ganz am Anfang gab's echt fast keine guten Apps für die Vision Pro Und für uns gab's auch noch so einen magischen Moment.",{"text":44935,"start":8268,"end":8300},"Wir waren dann nämlich, also Apple hat 'n Entwicklerstudio in München.",{"text":3454,"start":8300,"end":8303},79,{"sentences":44939,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44950,"start":8305,"end":8734},[44940,44942,44944,44946,44948],{"text":44941,"start":8305,"end":8353},"Da kann man sich anmelden, da kann man hinkommen und da sind auch da sind auch Geräte vor Ort.",{"text":44943,"start":8357,"end":8380},"Und da haben wir dann quasi mal verschiedene Prototypen mitgenommen.",{"text":44945,"start":8380,"end":8581},"Also wir hatten zum Beispiel gerade, wir hatten son paar Sachen auch für die für AR Party ge Prototyped, also Slinkshot zum Beispiel, also Du hast son eine Schnur spannt sich zwischen deinem Zeigefinger und Daumen und Du kannst quasi mit mit dem anderen Finger 'n Korken verschießen auf kleine Monster, die auf dich zufliegen und halt einfach nur diesen Prototypen, wo Du son Haufen fliegender kleiner Fische, die einfach deiner Hand gefolgt sind.",{"text":44947,"start":8581,"end":8643},"Und das kam dann bei den Leuten von Apple so extrem gut an, dass wir dann ziemlich schnell die Leute mit dem Fish Game waren.",{"text":44949,"start":8648,"end":8734},"Und das da wurden dann Kollegen hergeholt und ey guckt euch das mal an und keine Ahnung und das war für uns dann so ah okay, ich glaub wir haben da was was ganz Cooles.",163,{"sentences":44952,"speaker":487,"num_words":44959,"start":8738,"end":8856},[44953,44955,44957],{"text":44954,"start":8738,"end":8787},"War das eigentlich quasi auch eure Eintrittskarte, warum ihr dieses Dev Kit bekommen habt oder hattet ihr das schon vorher?",{"text":44956,"start":8787,"end":8810},"Also wie war eigentlich son bisschen son Schritt zurück?",{"text":44958,"start":8810,"end":8856},"Wie kam's überhaupt zu dieser Kooperation mit Apple und dass ihr quasi auch die Apple Vision Pro vorher hattet?",48,{"sentences":44961,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44964,"start":8859,"end":8931},[44962],{"text":44963,"start":8859,"end":8931},"Also man konnte sich da drauf bewerben, einfach online, hat da praktisch son Formular ausgefüllt, aber was wir da dann vorgestellt hatten, war eher Party sozusagen.",26,{"sentences":44966,"speaker":487,"num_words":1137,"start":8933,"end":8938},[44967],{"text":44968,"start":8933,"end":8938},"Okay, ja.",{"sentences":44970,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44980,"start":8938,"end":9257},[44971,44973,44975,44977,44978],{"text":44972,"start":8938,"end":9017},"Und ich vermute, also beziehungsweise wir haben dann ja auch mit den Leuten geredet so am Ende des Tages, gab son paar Gründe, warum das geklappt hat, würde ich sagen.",{"text":44974,"start":9019,"end":9116},"Also der eine ist, ich glaub, es war in dem Fall gut, im Game zu sein, weil also die Apple Vision Pro hat sich schon verkauft und auch immer noch ist son, ja, es ist son Businesstools, son Homeoffice Ding.",{"text":44976,"start":9120,"end":9165},"Und ich glaub, viele, die sich da beworben haben, waren eben dann einfach irgendwelche Apps und so weiter.",{"text":3004,"start":9165,"end":9169},{"text":44979,"start":9169,"end":9257},"Und das hat dann natürlich geholfen, die wollten eine Palette abdecken, die wollen einfach wie 'n Computer, das sollte es soll Entertainment, Gaming, da soll alles dabei sein, deswegen war das 'n Vorteil.",122,{"sentences":44982,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44988,"start":9257,"end":9400},[44983,44984,44986],{"text":3454,"start":9257,"end":9260},{"text":44985,"start":9260,"end":9335},"Das andere war, glaube ich, wirklich einfach, wer aufmerksam die Keynote geguckt hat, hat festgestellt, was will denn Apple promoten, was ist denen wichtig an diesem Gerät?",{"text":44987,"start":9335,"end":9400},"Und das haben wir halt einfach hervorgehoben und gezeigt so, wir verstehen, was eure Vision davon ist und ja, ich glaub, das hat auch noch geholfen.",54,{"sentences":44990,"speaker":507,"num_words":44762,"start":9403,"end":9571},[44991,44992,44994,44996,44997],{"text":3454,"start":9403,"end":9404},{"text":44993,"start":9408,"end":9479},"Okay, wenn wir vielleicht mal zwei, drei Schritte zurück machen davon, wir haben ja eingangs gesagt, wir machen ja auch Spiele, aber wir machen sehr viel andere Spiele.",{"text":44995,"start":9479,"end":9535},"So, unsere Spiele sind, ich wollt grad sagen flach, aber das klingt so bisschen abwertend, unsere Spiele sind zweidimensional.",{"text":44498,"start":9539,"end":9547},{"text":44998,"start":9547,"end":9571},"So kann man's, glaube ich, sagen, ja.",{"sentences":45000,"speaker":507,"num_words":45008,"start":9574,"end":9695},[45001,45003,45005,45006],{"text":45002,"start":9574,"end":9655},"Und ich hätte jetzt, ich hab auch nicht den technischen Hintergrund dafür, aber wenn mir jetzt jemand sagen würde, Jan, mach doch mal son Prototyp für sone VR App.",{"text":45004,"start":9655,"end":9675},"Ich hätte keine Ahnung, wo ich anfangen muss.",{"text":3004,"start":9675,"end":9678},{"text":45007,"start":9678,"end":9695},"So, wo fange ich denn an?",44,{"sentences":45010,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45021,"start":9698,"end":9959},[45011,45013,45015,45017,45019],{"text":45012,"start":9698,"end":9739},"Also man sollte wahrscheinlich, wenn man keine Ahnung hat, in 'ner Game Engine starten, so generell.",{"text":45014,"start":9743,"end":9807},"Weil eine Game Engine bietet einem praktisch direkt 'n Platz, wo Du irgendwie, Du kannst Objekte reinziehen, zum Beispiel 'n Würfel und der wird irgendwie dargestellt.",{"text":45016,"start":9811,"end":9894},"Und da ist am Ende des Tages bei den meisten Plattformen dann fast sogar son bisschen egal, ob das jetzt einfach auf deinem Screen ist oder in VR, weil ja die drei-d-Informationen schon da ist.",{"text":45018,"start":9896,"end":9914},"Ja, wir machen die meiste Arbeit mit Unity.",{"text":45020,"start":9918,"end":9959},"Ich würd sagen, im Game Engine Bereich gibt's drei große Player, Unreal, Godot, Unreal.",99,{"sentences":45023,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45033,"start":9963,"end":10266},[45024,45026,45028,45030,45031],{"text":45025,"start":9963,"end":10041},"Unreal ist der, da gehst Du hin, wenn Du High End Grafik willst, PS5, Xbox, krasse PCs, die haben das beste Lightning und so weiter.",{"text":45027,"start":10044,"end":10151},"Unit ist vor allem eigentlich so im Mobile Game Bereich ziemlich groß und diese ganze Schiene auch a a wie a und Gedo ist halt jetzt grad noch son bisschen so dieser Indie Game Player Open Source, also eigentlich auch superspannend.",{"text":45029,"start":10155,"end":10194},"Ich hoffe, da da wird noch mehr draus, weil eigentlich Open Source halt eigentlich supercool ist.",{"text":3454,"start":10194,"end":10196},{"text":45032,"start":10199,"end":10266},"Aber bis jetzt, wenn man guckt, was da rausgekommen ist, vor allem viele, ja, viel 2D Kram, viele Computerspieltitel, nicht so, nicht viel auf anderen Plattformen.",109,{"sentences":45035,"speaker":1137,"num_words":487,"start":10266,"end":10269},[45036],{"text":3454,"start":10266,"end":10269},{"sentences":45038,"speaker":507,"num_words":44925,"start":10271,"end":10420},[45039],{"text":45040,"start":10271,"end":10420},"Und ist es dann wirklich so, dass wenn ich jetzt, okay, ich starte in, dass es sich von klassischem, ne, Development für so normale Screens dann kaum unterscheidet, weil er der einzige Unterschied in Anführungszeichen das Kameraplacement ist, was Du vielleicht, ne, bei 'nem klassischen Titel son bisschen starrer hast und jetzt bist Du die",{"sentences":45042,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45052,"start":10422,"end":10629},[45043,45044,45046,45048,45050],{"text":10425,"start":10422,"end":10423},{"text":45045,"start":10423,"end":10437},"Nee, würde ich nicht sagen.",{"text":45047,"start":10437,"end":10479},"Also die Engine, in der Du arbeitest, bestimmt halt schon viel wie der komplette Workflow auch ist.",{"text":45049,"start":10479,"end":10582},"Also wenn, typischerweise finde ich, wenn Du jetzt 'n Webprojekt hast zum Beispiel, dann hast Du einfach deinen Coedeitor, dann machst Du irgendwie MPM run build oder irgendwas und dann geht's los, dann dann öffnet sich was.",{"text":45051,"start":10582,"end":10629},"Inunity ist so, Du könntest komplette Games bauen, ohne 'n Coedeitor überhaupt aufzuhaben, theoretisch.",74,{"sentences":45054,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1307,"start":10632,"end":10806},[45055,45057,45059,45061,45063],{"text":45056,"start":10632,"end":10663},"Also die bieten auch, also allein durch Animationen, die Du machen kannst.",{"text":45058,"start":10663,"end":10692},"Du kannst Timelines bauen, das ist dann praktisch wie in sonem Videoschnittprogramm.",{"text":45060,"start":10696,"end":10713},"Du kannst auch Visual Scripting machen.",{"text":45062,"start":10716,"end":10748},"Die der Unit Editor bietet schon oder ist einfach sone Riesenplattform für sich.",{"text":45064,"start":10748,"end":10806},"Also wir machen natürlich viel mit Skripte, also man kann sich vorstellen, man hat da eine Szene und in diesen Szenen sind game Objekts.",{"sentences":45066,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45008,"start":10806,"end":10923},[45067,45069,45071],{"text":45068,"start":10806,"end":10850},"Also klassischerweise wär das zum Beispiel der Player, der läuft rum, dann gibt's irgendwelche Gegner, die laufen rum.",{"text":45070,"start":10850,"end":10875},"Es gibt zum Beispiel Kisten, die können zerschlagen werden.",{"text":45072,"start":10879,"end":10923},"Das sind alles einzelne Objekts und auf denen sind dann Skripte drauf, die dann das Verhalten bestimmen.",{"sentences":45074,"speaker":507,"num_words":45085,"start":10926,"end":11357},[45075,45077,45079,45081,45083],{"text":45076,"start":10926,"end":10944},"Und wie wichtig ist da die Plattform selbst tatsächlich?",{"text":45078,"start":10944,"end":11100},"Weil wenn ich jetzt klassisches Game Development mach, ja, und ich zieh jetzt auf Smartphones zum Beispiel ab, dann ist er für mich in der Entwicklung in Anführungszeichen relativ egal, Dave kann da gerne reinspringen, wenn ich was Falsches sag, relativ egal, ob das am Ende auf 'nem iOS oder auf 'nem Android Gerät läuft, so, ja.",{"text":45080,"start":11100,"end":11273},"Oder wenn ich jetzt auf 'nem für 'n Desktop Rechner irgendwie konzeptioniere, dann ist es am Ende auch egal, ob das irgendwie 'n Rechner von von diesem Jahr oder vom letzten Jahr, ne, sagen es nicht so super anspruchsvoll ist irgendwie von von Titel her, aber jetzt sind ja, gerade weil diese Plattformen vielleicht auch noch so relativ jung sind, sind sie auch noch son bisschen sehr unterschiedlich, ja?",{"text":45082,"start":11273,"end":11313},"Ich guck mir eine Meta Quest zwei an, da gibt's nur ganz schlechtes, ja.",{"text":45084,"start":11313,"end":11357},"Ich guck mir eine Apple Vision Pro an, die hat keine Controller, die macht man irgendwie nur mit Händen.",168,{"sentences":45087,"speaker":507,"num_words":45092,"start":11357,"end":11460},[45088,45090],{"text":45089,"start":11357,"end":11408},"Ich versuch dann mit Händen irgendwie an der Meta Quest drei was zu machen, das irgendwie nicht ganz so geil, ja.",{"text":45091,"start":11411,"end":11460},"Wie wie sehr limitiert das einen so im Entwicklungsalltag oder wie sehr muss man sich dieser Plattformunterschiede bewusst sein?",40,{"sentences":45094,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45105,"start":11463,"end":11851},[45095,45097,45099,45101,45103],{"text":45096,"start":11463,"end":11574},"Genau, also es ist, würde ich schon sagen, sehr unterschiedlich, weil jetzt zum Beispiel, wenn Du einfach 'n klassisches Game machst, sagen wir mal kurz, nicht VR oder so was und Du dann kannst Du's deployen aufm Computer, aufm Mac, aufm Handy und es wird wahrscheinlich laufen.",{"text":45098,"start":11577,"end":11654},"Also dann musst Du natürlich den Input irgendwie anpassen, bei dem einen hast Du Touchscreen, bei dem anderen vielleicht Controller, bei dem anderen Maustaste, aber das wird mehr oder weniger laufen.",{"text":45100,"start":11656,"end":11728},"Was man dann natürlich gucken muss, ist gerade bei Games, irgendwann bei großen Games wird man optimieren müssen und da hat natürlich 'n Handy eine ganz andere Anforderung wie eine Konsole.",{"text":45102,"start":11731,"end":11790},"Wenn wir jetzt auf VR gehen, also jetzt zum Beispiel normales Computerspiel auf VR supporten, ist es noch mal 'n Level krasser einfach.",{"text":45104,"start":11793,"end":11851},"Also da wird wahrscheinlich auch, Du kannst einfach die VR Kamera schon, also die VR Brille als Kamera betrachten, die dann da durchgeht, das funktioniert schon.",158,{"sentences":45107,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45118,"start":11855,"end":12020},[45108,45110,45112,45114,45116],{"text":45109,"start":11855,"end":11899},"Aber jetzt zum Beispiel die Metaquest bringt son ganz anderes Bündel an mit als jetzt die Vision pro.",{"text":45111,"start":11903,"end":11973},"Aber jetzt so ganz konkret, wir haben von der Vision pro, wir haben's nur für die Vision pro entwickelt, auf die Metaquest geportet innerhalb von drei Tagen.",{"text":45113,"start":11973,"end":11979},"Also Okay.",{"text":45115,"start":11981,"end":12000},"Es ist schon, es geht schon auch gut.",{"text":45117,"start":12000,"end":12020},"Also man kann achtzig, neunzig Prozent behalten.",62,{"sentences":45120,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45125,"start":12023,"end":12131},[45121,45123,45124],{"text":45122,"start":12023,"end":12125},"Also da ist, das ist für mich eine der absoluten Hauptstärken von Unity halt wirklich, Du entwickelst in dieser einen Plattform und kannst es mehr oder weniger auf fast alles, was es gibt deployen, also sogar auch Web Web G l.",{"text":3454,"start":12125,"end":12129},{"text":1106,"start":12129,"end":12131},43,{"sentences":45127,"speaker":487,"num_words":45137,"start":12134,"end":12406},[45128,45130,45132,45133,45135],{"text":45129,"start":12134,"end":12203},"Korrigier mich, wenn ich da falschlieg, aber also ich hatte meine meine Masterarbeit auch in diesem Themenbereich damals gemacht, war sone Mixed Reality Anwendung auf der Hololens.",{"text":45131,"start":12207,"end":12264},"Und da hatte ich irgendwie im Kopf, es gab diese Plug ins, die glaube ich hatte Open XR oder so war das.",{"text":3004,"start":12264,"end":12268},{"text":45134,"start":12268,"end":12351},"Also irgendwie so diese AR Foundation, die irgendwie so ganz viele Sachen schon mit sich mitbringen, Also irgendwie Tracking von deinem Device, was für Gestensteuerung und Du so hast, Voice Commands.",{"text":45136,"start":12355,"end":12406},"Das hilft euch wahrscheinlich dabei massiv auch aus, oder das dann verschiedene Schnittstellen quasi zu bedienen auf unterschiedlichen Genau, genau.",101,{"sentences":45139,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44964,"start":12406,"end":12466},[45140],{"text":45141,"start":12406,"end":12466},"Ja, also jetzt ganz konkret zum Beispiel, wenn wir jetzt im Mobile Bereich sind, also Mobile AR, es gibt diese AR Foundation, wie Du gesagt hast.",{"sentences":45143,"speaker":507,"num_words":487,"start":12466,"end":12470},[45144],{"text":3454,"start":12466,"end":12470},{"sentences":45146,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45156,"start":12470,"end":12659},[45147,45149,45150,45152,45154],{"text":45148,"start":12470,"end":12541},"Und das wird dann, es gibt auf Google gibt's AR Core, auf Apple gibt's AR Kit und dieses AR Foundation ist der Rapper halt sozusagen drum rum.",{"text":12546,"start":12544,"end":12545},{"text":45151,"start":12545,"end":12570},"Man merkt dann aber halt schon trotzdem konkret die Unterschiede.",{"text":45153,"start":12570,"end":12623},"Also ein Ding, wo wir immer wieder reinlaufen, was uns auch echt krass frustriert ist auf Apple, das Image Tracking.",{"text":45155,"start":12623,"end":12659},"Das ist, ich, das ist bewusst von denen limitiert, so dass es furchtbar ist.",72,{"sentences":45158,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44718,"start":12659,"end":12880},[45159,45161,45163,45165,45166],{"text":45160,"start":12659,"end":12753},"Also, man kann sich vorstellen, wenn ich jetzt hier 'n Marke, also es kann irgendein Bild sein aufm Tisch und ich möchte mit meinem Smartphone tracken, das wird es nur einmal pro Sekunde aktualisieren auf iOS jetzt.",{"text":45162,"start":12753,"end":12766},"Das ist einfach so eingestellt.",{"text":45164,"start":12770,"end":12834},"Wiederum ist so das das Plaintracking, also ich will einfach irgend 'n Objekte im Raum platzieren, unabhängig von 'nem Marker, ist auf iOS besser.",{"text":3454,"start":12837,"end":12838},{"text":45167,"start":12838,"end":12880},"Und das sind dann schon so Sachen, also das verändert jetzt nicht konkret sozusagen, wie Du damit entwickelst.",{"sentences":45169,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44469,"start":12880,"end":12927},[45170],{"text":45171,"start":12880,"end":12927},"Du behandelst iOS und Android dann meistens gleich, aber das Ergebnis kann schon drastisch unterschiedlich sein, ja.",{"sentences":45173,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45182,"start":12927,"end":13153},[45174,45176,45178,45180],{"text":45175,"start":12927,"end":12986},"Und grade, was Du machen willst, also es ist schon eine Designentscheidung von Apple, weil das würde, also technisch wär das total easy.",{"text":45177,"start":12986,"end":13057},"Also Du willst ja eigentlich, wenn Du 'n Image Marker hast, dann willst Du eigentlich den rumwedeln und Du willst, dass das drei-d-Objekt an diese Marker klebt.",{"text":45179,"start":13057,"end":13146},"Das ist ja dieser magische Effekt quasi und wenn Du aber quasi immer die Hand bewegst und das Ding ruckelt dann so hinterher, das ist dann, ich weiß nicht genau, warum das jetzt so gemacht wird, aber genau.",{"text":45181,"start":13146,"end":13153},"Das ist",90,{"sentences":45184,"speaker":507,"num_words":44619,"start":13153,"end":13284},[45185],{"text":45186,"start":13153,"end":13284},"vielleicht einfach da auch teilweise eine Designentscheidung von der Plattform, weil man halt sagen wird, okay, dieses dieses Cluster, was so, ich sag mal, ganz frühes a a ja schon war, ja, das wollen wir vielleicht einfach gar nicht und wir quasi diesen Use Case, indem wir ihn gar nicht performant ermöglichen?",{"sentences":45188,"speaker":1137,"num_words":505,"start":13287,"end":13307},[45189,45191,45192],{"text":45190,"start":13287,"end":13300},"Ich glaub genau, das ist es.",{"text":3004,"start":13300,"end":13304},{"text":3004,"start":13306,"end":13307},{"sentences":45194,"speaker":507,"num_words":45198,"start":13307,"end":13411},[45195,45196],{"text":13313,"start":13307,"end":13310},{"text":45197,"start":13310,"end":13411},"Nicht, dass die Leute hier mit QR Codes in der Gegend rumwedeln und dann irgendwie Sachen damit platzieren, das wollen wir nicht, sondern wir wollen das halt noch viel mehr immersive sozusagen haben und überlegt euch halt was cooles Neues dafür.",42,{"sentences":45200,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45092,"start":13411,"end":13517},[45201,45202,45203,45204,45206],{"text":3004,"start":13411,"end":13414},{"text":3004,"start":13414,"end":13417},{"text":3454,"start":13417,"end":13419},{"text":45205,"start":13419,"end":13446},"Wobei wir einfach festgestellt haben, das ist irgendwie so dieses lustige.",{"text":45207,"start":13446,"end":13517},"Also Du hast komplett recht, so dieses AR Marker basiert ist halt in dem Sinne Old School, aber das ist oft halt viel magischer trotzdem noch.",{"sentences":45209,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45125,"start":13517,"end":13625},[45210],{"text":45211,"start":13517,"end":13625},"Also stell dir vor dieser klassic Use Case, der irgendwann existieren wird, Du hast halt irgendwie dein Handy oder deine deine Brille und bist im Supermarkt und jede Verpackung kann ihr eigenes Portal sein, wo irgendwas drin passiert oder Du kriegst Infos da.",{"sentences":45213,"speaker":507,"num_words":44682,"start":13625,"end":13697},[45214,45216],{"text":45215,"start":13625,"end":13678},"Viel zu spießig, stell dir doch mal vor, Du spielst so Magic oder Pokémon oder so Trading Card.",{"text":45217,"start":13678,"end":13697},"Ja, ich bin im Supermarkt.",{"sentences":45219,"speaker":487,"num_words":1137,"start":13697,"end":13705},[45220],{"text":44834,"start":13697,"end":13705},{"sentences":45222,"speaker":507,"num_words":45230,"start":13705,"end":13780},[45223,45225,45227,45228],{"text":45224,"start":13705,"end":13712},"im Supermarkt.",{"text":45226,"start":13712,"end":13755},"Du hast diesen Fisch vor dir und auf einmal stehen da halt deine Viecher so rum.",{"text":3004,"start":13757,"end":13758},{"text":45229,"start":13758,"end":13780},"Und wenn Du so eine Karte spielst, betteln",27,{"sentences":45232,"speaker":487,"num_words":1137,"start":13780,"end":13786},[45233],{"text":45234,"start":13780,"end":13786},"die sich",{"sentences":45236,"speaker":507,"num_words":45241,"start":13786,"end":13801},[45237,45239],{"text":45238,"start":13786,"end":13793},"halt auch wirklich.",{"text":45240,"start":13793,"end":13801},"Ja, Jogio,",5,{"sentences":45243,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1137,"start":13801,"end":13810},[45244],{"text":45245,"start":13801,"end":13810},"ist klasse.",{"sentences":45247,"speaker":487,"num_words":45198,"start":13810,"end":13935},[45248,45250,45252],{"text":45249,"start":13810,"end":13840},"Hat hattet ihr das aber nicht sogar mit mit mit dieser Supermarktidee?",{"text":45251,"start":13844,"end":13877},"Irgendwas diese Milchverpackung hatte ich im Kopf von eurer Website, oder?",{"text":45253,"start":13877,"end":13935},"Wo Du dann die Milch irgendwie angeschaut hast und dann hast Du die Zusammensetzung irgendwie ballaststoffreich, Protein bla bla",{"sentences":45255,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1137,"start":13935,"end":13941},[45256],{"text":45257,"start":13935,"end":13941},"bla und",{"sentences":45259,"speaker":507,"num_words":1137,"start":13941,"end":13947},[45260],{"text":45261,"start":13941,"end":13947},"so was.",{"sentences":45263,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45268,"start":13947,"end":13993},[45264,45266],{"text":45265,"start":13947,"end":13961},"Wir haben denen das gepitcht.",{"text":45267,"start":13961,"end":13993},"Wir haben's am Ende nicht gemacht, es war 'n Prototyp, aber ja, genau.",18,{"sentences":45270,"speaker":487,"num_words":505,"start":13993,"end":14011},[45271],{"text":45272,"start":13993,"end":14011},"Und den Prototyp fanden die auch nicht gut.",{"sentences":45274,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45282,"start":14011,"end":14277},[45275,45277,45278,45280,45281],{"text":45276,"start":14011,"end":14160},"Doch, den fanden die gut, aber irgendwie hatten da war, das war für Fly damals und das ist, also es war so der nächste Step in unserer AR Entwicklung, könnte man sagen, also Face Filter und dann haben wir gedacht, na gut, was ist denn ein praktischer Use Case, den den auch Companys geil finden, ah okay, AR Marketing.",{"text":3454,"start":14163,"end":14164},{"text":45279,"start":14166,"end":14270},"Genau und da haben wir dann angefangen, allen möglichen Marken, die wir interessant fanden, Ideen zu pitchen und das war eine davon an Fly damals, die sind da noch gerade frisch aufm Markt gewesen und hatten echt gar kein Budget.",{"text":3004,"start":14274,"end":14275},{"text":12546,"start":14275,"end":14277},102,{"sentences":45284,"speaker":507,"num_words":44790,"start":14279,"end":14335},[45285],{"text":45286,"start":14279,"end":14335},"Und dazu kommt natürlich auch, dass im Einzelhandel Package Design halt auch nicht alle zwei Wochen angepasst und neu gemacht wird.",{"sentences":45288,"speaker":487,"num_words":44519,"start":14335,"end":14346},[45289,45290],{"text":3725,"start":14335,"end":14337},{"text":45291,"start":14337,"end":14346},"True, True, True.",{"sentences":45293,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44577,"start":14346,"end":14568},[45294,45296,45298],{"text":45295,"start":14346,"end":14423},"Also ich glaub, da war wirklich, und das ist auch immer noch so die größte Hürde, ist einfach dieses, wie kommst Du denn bis zu dem Schritt, wo die AR Experience eigentlich losgeht?",{"text":45297,"start":14427,"end":14555},"Weil die Sache wär dann, okay, ich hab jetzt mein Handy, gut, das hat jeder dabei, das ist schon mal 'n guter Schritt, aber dann, ich hol's raus, öffne die Kamera, scan QR Code, lande dann in auf der Webseite oder in Instagram oder so was und halte es dann auf die Verpackung.",{"text":45299,"start":14558,"end":14568},"Das sind so viele Steps.",{"sentences":45301,"speaker":487,"num_words":1287,"start":14568,"end":14580},[45302,45304],{"text":45303,"start":14568,"end":14575},"Nicht komplett.",{"text":3004,"start":14579,"end":14580},{"sentences":45306,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44604,"start":14580,"end":14618},[45307],{"text":45308,"start":14580,"end":14618},"Genau, das ist dann eher so, die Idee funktioniert dann, wenn wir alle AR Brillen aufhaben.",{"sentences":45310,"speaker":507,"num_words":45316,"start":14618,"end":14790},[45311,45313,45314],{"text":45312,"start":14618,"end":14653},"Aber das war's vielleicht 'n guter Hook, mal über Web XR zu sprechen.",{"text":3454,"start":14653,"end":14656},{"text":45315,"start":14659,"end":14790},"Weil das ist, ist das nicht genau das Versprechen dahinter zu sagen, Du kannst so diese AR oder VR Experience auch in deinem Browser laufen lassen und brauchst keine spezielle App oder irgendwas zu installieren, sondern das geht halt einfach los, so wie heutzutage halt auch 'n Video einfach losgehen kann auf deiner Webseite.",68,{"sentences":45318,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45329,"start":14790,"end":15054},[45319,45321,45323,45325,45327],{"text":45320,"start":14790,"end":14812},"Ja, ja, nee, das ist auf jeden Fall richtig.",{"text":45322,"start":14812,"end":14886},"Wir haben kein richtiges Web AR Projekt jemals gemacht, aber jedes Mal, also wir sind schon ganz oft davor, weil es jedes Mal so ist, das löst ja genau dieses Problem.",{"text":45324,"start":14889,"end":14901},"So, hey, man kann einfach loslegen.",{"text":45326,"start":14904,"end":14946},"Und dann dann beginnt's jedes Mal von neuem, okay, dann recherchieren wir mal, was aktuell da so geht.",{"text":45328,"start":14946,"end":15054},"Und dann kommt man immer wieder zum Punkt, ah, es gibt dieses Framework, das nennt sie die Aith Wall, das wurd von Lyantic auch gekauft, also die, die Pokémon Go gemacht haben und das ist the way to go.",103,{"sentences":45331,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44577,"start":15054,"end":15286},[45332,45334,45335,45337,45338],{"text":45333,"start":15054,"end":15155},"Das ist wirklich das Beste, das heißt, damit hast Du supergutes Tracking und so weiter und dann guckst Du auf den Preis und dann ist es irgendwie, boah, ich will nichts falsches sagen, dreitausend Euro im Monat oder so was.",{"text":15160,"start":15155,"end":15158},{"text":45336,"start":15158,"end":15187},"Und dann ist halt so, ja, dann ist die Option wieder raus.",{"text":3004,"start":15187,"end":15190},{"text":45339,"start":15190,"end":15286},"Und viele von den anderen Frameworks sind wirklich dann so, das Tracking ist schlecht, die Performance ist schlecht, also so so richtig so Fehler oder Probleme, wo Du merkst, ah, das steckt einfach noch in den Kinderschuhen.",{"sentences":45341,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1137,"start":15290,"end":15295},[45342],{"text":45343,"start":15290,"end":15295},"Aber das",{"sentences":45345,"speaker":507,"num_words":45350,"start":15295,"end":15452},[45346,45348],{"text":45347,"start":15295,"end":15325},"heißt, das sind so Sachen, die man sich tatsächlich selber noch angucken muss.",{"text":45349,"start":15325,"end":15452},"Ich hätte jetzt erwartet, aber ich hab ja keine Ahnung, ne, ich würde ganz naiv rangehen, sagen okay, wenn ich dieses WebXR benutze, dann sind das ja genau die Sachen, die für mich gelöst sind, so dieses Tracking und Verhalten im Raum und sowas, aber das muss ich alles noch",63,{"sentences":45352,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44453,"start":15454,"end":15533},[45353,45355],{"text":45354,"start":15454,"end":15470},"Ich glaube, es ist gelöst für VR.",{"text":45356,"start":15473,"end":15533},"Also das beobachte ich aber nur so von der Seitenlinie, das haben wir nicht selbst entwickelt, aber es gibt VR Web Apps, die funktionieren gut.",{"sentences":45358,"speaker":507,"num_words":487,"start":15535,"end":15536},[45359],{"text":7667,"start":15535,"end":15536},{"sentences":45361,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45372,"start":15536,"end":15887},[45362,45364,45366,45368,45370],{"text":45363,"start":15536,"end":15716},"So, ich glaub auch, weil das son bisschen einfacher ist, also dieses ganze Tracking hinzukriegen, performant im Browser, also ist dann son Slam Algorithmus, der ja erkennen muss, wie Du Du dein Handy in der Umgebung bewegst, ist superschwierig und wird am Ende nur gescheit funktionieren, wenn halt die Hardware Hersteller, wenn Apple, wenn Google das wirklich da da unterstützt und die, ja, kochen eigentlich son bisschen ihre eigene Suppe.",{"text":45365,"start":15719,"end":15750},"Also eigene Möglichkeit, die son bisschen mehr am kommen, ist App Clips.",{"text":45367,"start":15754,"end":15810},"Also wenn euch das was sagt, ist praktisch, man kann eine App im App Store releasen, aber wer will eine komplette App runterladen?",{"text":45369,"start":15813,"end":15829},"Das ist immer relativ groß und so weiter.",{"text":45371,"start":15829,"end":15887},"App Clips sind sozusagen, die kannst Du, da klickst Du aufn Link im Browser und es öffnet eine kleine Version der App direkt sozusagen.",137,{"sentences":45374,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45118,"start":15889,"end":16044},[45375,45376],{"text":3454,"start":15889,"end":15890},{"text":45377,"start":15890,"end":16044},"Du kannst dann noch die volle Version runterladen später, aber es ist relativ sieben, das ist klick, klick, Du bist in 'ner richtigen App, hast native Performance und so weiter und das ist son bisschen, ich würd sagen, aktuell der interessanteste Approach, wenn man versucht, also es ist nicht wirklich Web a a dann, aber es das ist the way, ja.",{"sentences":45379,"speaker":507,"num_words":45389,"start":16046,"end":16374},[45380,45382,45384,45385,45387],{"text":45381,"start":16046,"end":16067},"Okay, vielleicht noch mal zurückzukommen zu der Entwicklung.",{"text":45383,"start":16067,"end":16128},"Da hast Du ja gesagt, okay, ihr macht da vier Millionenity und dementsprechend ähnlich ist es vielleicht auch zu Clusterer Entwicklungsarbeit, ja?",{"text":3004,"start":16128,"end":16131},{"text":45386,"start":16131,"end":16189},"Aber wie unterscheidet es sich denn so später im Zyklus, wenn ich jetzt an sowas wie QA und Debugging und sowas denke, ja?",{"text":45388,"start":16189,"end":16374},"Also als ich das erste Mal Division Pro aufhatte, habe ich ganz viel Zeit in zum Beispiel den den Immersive Videos von Apple verbracht, ja, und hab so festgestellt, die kannst Du eigentlich beliebig oft gucken, weil Du immer was Neues entdeckst, weil dadurch, dass es halt son großes Sichtfeld hat und Du mal hier irgendwas gucken kannst und mal da was gucken kannst, kriegst Du halt nicht alles beim ersten Durchlauf sozusagen mit, ja?",129,{"sentences":45391,"speaker":507,"num_words":45400,"start":16374,"end":16629},[45392,45393,45395,45397,45399],{"text":3004,"start":16374,"end":16376},{"text":45394,"start":16376,"end":16444},"Und ich würde mir vorstellen, dass es bei Spielen oder Anwendungen ja auch ähnlich sein kann, ja, wenn Tiny Fins jetzt rund dich herum entsteht, Ja.",{"text":45396,"start":16447,"end":16583},"Dann ist es ja auch wahrscheinlich 'n bisschen aufwendiger, schwieriger, also im internen Testing alles auch mal anzugucken oder dann nach drei Durchläufe zu sagen, ah, da hinten diese Koralle, die steht irgendwie aufm Kopf, das ist mir gar nicht aufgefallen, weil ich hab die ganze Zeit in die andere Richtung geguckt, so, ja.",{"text":45398,"start":16583,"end":16625},"Wie, was gibt's da noch so für Unterschiede oder was macht das vielleicht schwieriger oder anspruchsvoller?",{"text":3574,"start":16628,"end":16629},98,{"sentences":45402,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45412,"start":16629,"end":16895},[45403,45405,45407,45409,45410],{"text":45404,"start":16629,"end":16640},"ja, es ist schlimm.",{"text":45406,"start":16640,"end":16697},"Also, es ist teilweise wirklich so, also man hat so diese neuen Ein Gefühl fürs Einschalten, das war die Ja, ja, ja.",{"text":45408,"start":16697,"end":16873},"Also, das ist so, man denkt so, das hat alles magisch, das wird der Spaß des Lebens, aber dann ist halt eigentlich so, Du merkst es genau eigentlich, wie Du sagst und dann das Ding ist halt, ah, okay, Du hast die dann auf, Du entdeckst den Fehler, dann fix Du den Fehler und dann ist es halt wieder, okay, bilden, auf die Brille spielen, das ist 'n Prozess von zwei, drei Minuten.",{"text":3454,"start":16873,"end":16877},{"text":45411,"start":16877,"end":16895},"Das ist halt so ätzend jedes Mal.",107,{"sentences":45414,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44664,"start":16895,"end":17190},[45415,45417,45419,45421],{"text":45416,"start":16895,"end":16944},"Also, wir versuchen natürlich das meiste im Editor sozusagen zu testen, aber das geht natürlich auch nur bis zum gewissen Grad.",{"text":45418,"start":16944,"end":17015},"Also ich kann jetzt, ich kann schlecht im Editor testen wie wenn ich Fische durch meinen Raum schwimmen lasse, so weit kann der Editor das dann halt nicht simulieren.",{"text":45420,"start":17015,"end":17122},"Also, wir hatten's dann so, dass man, wir haben in im Editor eine drei-d-Szene, wo wir 'n Raum hatten, wo wir dann eine eine drei-d-Ku hatten, wo der die den Fischen gefolgt ist sozusagen, nee, die Fische sind in der Kugel gefolgt.",{"text":45422,"start":17125,"end":17190},"Und das hilft natürlich, so ganz offensichtliche Bugs zu fixen, aber ja, Du musstest dann doch immer wieder diesen Zyklus machen und das wird ätzend.",{"sentences":45424,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45431,"start":17190,"end":17564},[45425,45427,45429],{"text":45426,"start":17190,"end":17265},"Also was dabei hilft auf jeden Fall so Sachen, also klar, Du entdeckst unendlich neue Sachen dich rum und so könntest Du, glaube ich, auch unendlich neue Bugs finden oder Fehler.",{"text":45428,"start":17268,"end":17347},"Was was dabei krass hilft, sind Prefabs, also quasi, dass Du in wie so wie so einzelne Pakete, so Vorlagen quasi vorbereitest und die dann auch immer gezielt bearbeitest.",{"text":45430,"start":17350,"end":17564},"Also ist quasi, Du Du hast alles vorher mal durchgeguckt bevor Sport und dann geht's eigentlich nur dadurch drum noch, also Du hast natürlich dann 'n ganzen Raum, der erfasst wird und dann geht's noch darum halt, was heißt nur noch, aber auch darum einfach zu gucken, dass die Prefabs nicht ineinander spawnen, also nicht ineinander erscheinen und dass da alles schön verteilt ist und sowas, aber dass dann noch selbst Fehler in den drei D Modellen oder in diesen kleinen Unterteilen sind, die die sind dann schnell gefunden.",149,{"sentences":45433,"speaker":507,"num_words":45436,"start":17566,"end":17657},[45434],{"text":45435,"start":17566,"end":17657},"Aber ich stell es mir auch schwierig vor, Edge Cases abzudecken, so, ja, also als jetzt, ich glaub, als ich Fruide Ninja gespielt hab das erste Mal so drei D, die machen das",33,{"sentences":45438,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1137,"start":17657,"end":17662},[45439],{"text":45440,"start":17657,"end":17662},"ja auch",{"sentences":45442,"speaker":507,"num_words":44871,"start":17662,"end":17813},[45443,45445],{"text":45444,"start":17662,"end":17787},"super cool, also sie machen son richtig schönes Plain Mapping von von dem Space dich rum und wenn Du dann so Obst zerhackst und da irgendwie die Spritzer fliegen, dann bleibt das wirklich so an der Stelle im Raum kleben, wo da im echten Raum auch irgendwie was ist.",{"text":45446,"start":17790,"end":17813},"Und das hat stellenweise sehr gut funktioniert und stellenweise sehr schlecht.",{"sentences":45448,"speaker":1137,"num_words":487,"start":17813,"end":17816},[45449],{"text":3454,"start":17813,"end":17816},{"sentences":45451,"speaker":507,"num_words":45182,"start":17816,"end":18047},[45452,45454],{"text":45453,"start":17816,"end":17885},"So, und das stelle ich mir natürlich auch zu Debacken Hölle vor, weil Du musst ja für unterschiedliche Use Cases auch einfach unterschiedliche Räume haben, ne.",{"text":45455,"start":17885,"end":18047},"Du musst, wenn Du es testen willst, Du brauchst mal 'n Tisch oder 'n Sofa, also unterschiedliche Formen und Gegebenheiten auch einfach in deinem physischen Raum, das irgendwie alles zu testen oder bei bei Tiny Fans, weiß nicht, wenn ihr verhindern wollt, dass die Fische durch die halbe Möbellandschaft irgendwie schwimmen, ja, dann müssen ja Möbel da sein zum Testen, so salopp gesagt, ja.",{"sentences":45457,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45464,"start":18049,"end":18260},[45458,45460,45462],{"text":45459,"start":18049,"end":18108},"Genau, ja, das stimmt schon, aber ich finde, zum gewissen Grad ist man dann auch einfach irgendwann so halt, verlassen uns auf die Plattform, so.",{"text":45461,"start":18108,"end":18148},"Wenn die Plattform halbwegs den Raum richtig erkennt, dann versucht man auch das Problem simpler zu machen.",{"text":45463,"start":18148,"end":18260},"Also in Tiny find's zum Beispiel, die Brille ja, die kann Möbel erkennen, die kann sozusagen deinen ganzen Raum zu 'nem Mesh machen, aber wir betrachten eigentlich einfach nur die Bodenplänen Und dann das Problem ist dann viel leichteres und das wird dann wahrscheinlich überall irgendwie funktionieren.",89,{"sentences":45466,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45477,"start":18263,"end":18694},[45467,45469,45471,45473,45475],{"text":45468,"start":18263,"end":18331},"Wir haben auch tatsächlich, also wir haben festgestellt, 'n Office eignet sich ganz gut dazu, VR oder mRNA Experience zu zu testen, weil Du hast da eigentlich alles.",{"text":45470,"start":18331,"end":18535},"Also wir haben wir einen großen Tisch im Office stehen, wir haben die wir haben die Stühle, wir haben höhenverstellbare Tische, wir haben verschiedene Arten von Wänden, Dachbalken, da ist eigentlich da ist eigentlich das meiste, was Du in 'nem Wohnzimmer auch hast, son bisschen abgedeckt und wir haben dann aber auch einfach, also wir haben 'n paar Sachen gemacht, also es ging ja auch am Anfang son bisschen darum, so Accessibility und Leute, die noch nie eine Brille auf hatten.",{"text":45472,"start":18538,"end":18573},"Wir haben zum Beispiel, Division Pro macht viel mit Eye Tracking, weil die hat keine Controller.",{"text":45474,"start":18576,"end":18615},"Und Du kannst dann quasi das Interface einfach angucken und dann tappen mit deinen Fingern, ums auszuwählen.",{"text":45476,"start":18618,"end":18694},"Und wir haben uns bewusst dafür entschieden, dass Du für Tiny Finns kein Eye Tracking brauchst, also dass man quasi die Brille einfach aufziehen kann und es geht los, man muss es nicht einstellen.",176,{"sentences":45479,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45488,"start":18697,"end":19035},[45480,45482,45484,45486],{"text":45481,"start":18697,"end":18719},"Und so war auch 'n Learning bei uns im Office.",{"text":45483,"start":18719,"end":18786},"Wir haben am Anfang alles erkannt, weil es ist natürlich schon magisch, da steht 'n Stuhl und prallen die Fische von dem Stuhl ab, das ist natürlich schon geil.",{"text":45485,"start":18790,"end":18795},"Oder vom Dachbalken.",{"text":45487,"start":18799,"end":19035},"Aber wenn Du quasi, also es geht ja darum, die Fische vor 'nem Hai zu beschützen mitunter und wenn Du das zehnte Mal an diesem Dachbalken hängen geblieben bist, während Du vor diesem Hai wegrennst, entscheidest Du dich dann dafür einfach zu sagen, wir tracken nur noch die horizontalen Flächen, dass Du nicht mehr durch den Boden schwimmen kannst, aber auch son bisschen, wenn Du die Wände ignorierst, ist es auch egal, wie groß der Raum von, also dann können auch Leute in 'nem kleinen Raum spielen und haben quasi son bisschen mehr mehr mehr mehr zur Verfügung, ja.",141,{"sentences":45490,"speaker":487,"num_words":45501,"start":19037,"end":19257},[45491,45493,45495,45497,45499],{"text":45492,"start":19037,"end":19116},"Ist natürlich dann auch sone son bisschen Abwägen ne von wie immer sie viel zu machen und wie soll's vom Gamedesign halt sein, dass es auch irgendwie weiterhin noch Spaß macht.",{"text":45494,"start":19116,"end":19123},"Ja, genau.",{"text":45496,"start":19123,"end":19138},"Das war ich immer sehr spannend.",{"text":45498,"start":19141,"end":19239},"Was was ich interessant wollte, weil das habt ihr jetzt paar Mal gesagt, natürlich haben ja diese verschiedenen Headmounterd Displays, ne, sei es jetzt die Apple Vision Pro, die Metaquest, potenziell auch so was wie die Playstation VR Brille.",{"text":45500,"start":19242,"end":19257},"Die haben ja unterschiedliche Steuerung, ne.",84,{"sentences":45503,"speaker":487,"num_words":44740,"start":19257,"end":19421},[45504,45506,45508],{"text":45505,"start":19257,"end":19321},"Die Apple Vision Pro, wie ihr gesagt habt, hat zum Beispiel kein haptisches Feedback, die hatte ja gar keine Controller, muss aber ohne da auskommen.",{"text":45507,"start":19324,"end":19349},"Wie sehr konzentriert ihr euch in Entwicklung, alle Plattformen gleichzeitig?",{"text":45509,"start":19349,"end":19421},"Macht ihr erst mal auf eine eine Plattform und adaptiert das dann in Zukunft für die anderen oder habt ihr direkt irgendwie alles im Blick, was man da machen könnte?",{"sentences":45511,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45501,"start":19424,"end":19637},[45512,45514,45516,45518,45519],{"text":45513,"start":19424,"end":19474},"Na ja, also wenn's jetzt VR geht, haben wir's bis jetzt immer so gemacht, dass es dann für eine Plattform war.",{"text":45515,"start":19474,"end":19576},"Aber das liegt auch einfach daran, bei tinyfin ja gut, klar, das war 'n Vision Pro Projekt und jetzt, wenn's kundenseitig irgendwas ist, dann bestimmst Du ja die Hardware und dann nimmst Du das, was Du denkst, funktioniert am besten.",{"text":45517,"start":19576,"end":19603},"Vielleicht will der Kunde es dann später adaptieren, aber ja.",{"text":3454,"start":19606,"end":19607},{"text":45520,"start":19607,"end":19637},"Ich Ich glaube, das ist aber jetzt in dem Sinne nicht klassisch.",{"sentences":45522,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45436,"start":19637,"end":19715},[45523],{"text":45524,"start":19637,"end":19715},"Also wenn Du jetzt wirklich einfach son Game Studio bist, okay, wir wollen jetzt 'n neuen VR Titel rausbringen, dann überlegst Du natürlich, dass Du es irgendwie auf möglichst vielen Plattformen machen kannst.",{"sentences":45526,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45535,"start":19717,"end":20055},[45527,45529,45531,45533],{"text":45528,"start":19717,"end":19983},"Genau, aber zum Beispiel jetzt mal, zum Beispiel wir haben für PE 'n Ding gemacht, das war auch eine Messe und die wollen da AR darstellen, die haben die wir machen so Lasercutter und so was und das ist zu gefährlich, das physisch darzustellen und deswegen haben wir mit Image Trackern quasi holografisch die Laserkutter und den Laser und so dargestellt und da ist dann auch so, ja okay, 'n Smartphone ist 'n bisschen zu klein für die Messe, die Brillen waren damals noch nicht draußen oder zumindest noch nicht auf dem Level Und dann nehmen wir einfach 'n Tablet natürlich, wir nehmen 'nem größeren Display.",{"text":45530,"start":19983,"end":20007},"Was ist das Tablet, was aktuell das beste AR macht?",{"text":45532,"start":20007,"end":20039},"Das ist das iPad Pro, also schlagen wir 'n iPad Pro vor logischerweise.",{"text":45534,"start":20043,"end":20055},"So ungefähr ist dann der Gedankengang.",135,{"sentences":45537,"speaker":507,"num_words":45546,"start":20058,"end":20383},[45538,45539,45540,45542,45544],{"text":3004,"start":20058,"end":20059},{"text":3454,"start":20062,"end":20063},{"text":45541,"start":20065,"end":20120},"Jetzt hast Du gesagt oder oder Dave hast Du heute gesagt, wenn Du 'n Spiel machst, willst Du ja irgendwie alle Plattformen abdecken.",{"text":45543,"start":20124,"end":20174},"Und ich guck so diesen diesen Markt an, ohne da viel Einsicht reinzuhaben und ich frag mich so, ist das wirklich so?",{"text":45545,"start":20177,"end":20383},"Weil dadurch, dass ja, also weder die Vision Pro noch die Meta Quest jetzt irgendwie eine riesige Install Base haben, ja, stell ich mal die ketzerische Frage, ob sich vielleicht nicht mehr lohnt, irgendwie mit einer von diesen Plattformen sonen Exklusivity Deal zu machen und dafür auf die andere vielleicht erst mal zu verzichten, weil das Add on von der zweiten oder dritten Plattform halt so inkrementell klein ist, dass sich vielleicht der andere Deal mehr lohnen kann, ja.",126,{"sentences":45548,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44964,"start":20383,"end":20441},[45549],{"text":45550,"start":20383,"end":20441},"Also ich glaube, wenn Du jetzt einfach 'n VR Game rausbringen willst, dann geh auf die Meta Quest und ignorier erst mal die Apple Vision Pro.",{"sentences":45552,"speaker":507,"num_words":487,"start":20443,"end":20444},[45553],{"text":7667,"start":20443,"end":20444},{"sentences":45555,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44503,"start":20444,"end":20461},[45556],{"text":45557,"start":20444,"end":20461},"So, das und das machen Weil die",{"sentences":45559,"speaker":507,"num_words":44519,"start":20463,"end":20474},[45560],{"text":45561,"start":20463,"end":20474},"Weil die geilste ist?",{"sentences":45563,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44494,"start":20477,"end":20525},[45564,45565,45566,45567,45569],{"text":3004,"start":20477,"end":20478},{"text":7667,"start":20481,"end":20482},{"text":20485,"start":20482,"end":20484},{"text":45568,"start":20484,"end":20495},"Und auch die Zielgruppe.",{"text":45570,"start":20498,"end":20525},"Also das ist halt wirklich, die Meta Quest kaufen Leute, die wollen spielen.",{"sentences":45572,"speaker":507,"num_words":44531,"start":20527,"end":20539},[45573],{"text":45574,"start":20527,"end":20539},"Ja, hab ich auch so gemacht.",{"sentences":45576,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45436,"start":20539,"end":20617},[45577],{"text":45578,"start":20539,"end":20617},"Genau, that's it und die Apple Vision Pro wird von Leuten gekauft, die finden's auch spannend, hey, ich will diesen Virtual Display von meinem Mac haben und ich will damit arbeiten und ja.",{"sentences":45580,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44937,"start":20619,"end":20805},[45581,45583],{"text":45582,"start":20619,"end":20802},"Aber ist lustig, dass Du es ansprichst, weil wir haben tatsächlich, also es gibt von Apple Apple Arcade, das ist quasi die machen die machen die Games über die Apps und das gibt's natürlich auch für die Vision Pro und wir haben auch schon gemerkt, also wir haben versucht mit Tiny Fins da irgendwie reinzukommen und es hat genau, es hat nicht geklappt, aber es macht natürlich Sinn son exklusiv Deal zu machen, wenn man die Möglichkeit hat.",{"text":3004,"start":20802,"end":20805},{"sentences":45585,"speaker":507,"num_words":44695,"start":20805,"end":21192},[45586,45587,45589,45591,45593],{"text":7667,"start":20805,"end":20808},{"text":45588,"start":20811,"end":20856},"Habt ihr das Gefühl, dass dieses VR Ökosystem für Spiele son gesünderen Price Point hat?",{"text":45590,"start":20860,"end":20950},"Mein Eindruck ist nämlich, wenn ich gerade so die Mobile Gaming Landschaft angucke, also Smartphon Mobile Gaming, so wie wir herkommen, dass da natürlich schon son gewisses Race to the Bottom irgendwie stattgefunden hat.",{"text":45592,"start":20950,"end":21124},"Das ist schon vorbei, ja, da ist auch viel mit Werbefinanzierung und sowas gelaufen und wenn man sich so im Metaquest Store umguckt oder auf der Vision Pro irgendwie umguckt, dann findest Du halt Spiele, die bepreist sind für fünf, zehn, fünfzehn, zwanzig teilweise auch im Metaquest irgendwie dreißig, vierzig Euro Bereich ja so unterwegs, was eigentlich viel gesünder klingt erst mal so, ja, auch für Publisher.",{"text":45594,"start":21128,"end":21192},"Oder erwartet ihr dann, dass wenn diese Plattformen irgendwie größer werden, dass diese Preise auch genauso hart nach unten korrigieren, wie das damals bei Smartphones stattgefunden hat.",{"sentences":45596,"speaker":507,"num_words":44462,"start":21192,"end":21261},[45597],{"text":45598,"start":21192,"end":21261},"Weil wer sich erinnert, als son iPhone mal neu war und der App Store neu war, da haben Spieler auch am Anfang mal zehn Euro gekostet und so, ne?",{"sentences":45600,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45282,"start":21261,"end":21514},[45601,45603,45605,45607,45609],{"text":45602,"start":21261,"end":21290},"Genau, aber man muss sagen ja, ich find's sehr vergleichbar mit PC.",{"text":45604,"start":21294,"end":21381},"Also auf bei VR Brillen, also die Games sind, genau, die haben meistens 'n Preis, die haben selten bis wenige Inderpurchices und ich glaub, ich hab noch nie Werbung jetzt in 'nem VR Game direkt gesehen.",{"text":45606,"start":21383,"end":21420},"Und wenn Du jetzt bei PC, bei Steam guckst, würde ich sagen, ist das ähnlich.",{"text":45608,"start":21420,"end":21487},"Also ja, Du hast hier und da Inderpurchices und Du also Expansions Add ons und so was, aber ich würd das mal noch so als sehr gesunde Sachen bezeichnen.",{"text":45610,"start":21487,"end":21514},"Also ist jetzt nicht irgendwie toxisch in irgend 'nem Sinne.",{"sentences":45612,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44599,"start":21517,"end":21693},[45613,45614,45616,45618,45620],{"text":21519,"start":21517,"end":21518},{"text":45615,"start":21518,"end":21524},"Noch, ja.",{"text":45617,"start":21526,"end":21583},"Ich frag mich son bisschen, ich weiß nicht, woran's liegt, aber so, ich könnte mir vorstellen, dass dass es durch die durch die Einstiegshürde kommt.",{"text":45619,"start":21583,"end":21614},"Also 'n Smartphone hat einfach inzwischen jeder, so, das gehört zum Grundrepertoire.",{"text":45621,"start":21618,"end":21693},"Eine VR Brille ist einfach immer noch son son Premium, bei dem vielleicht dann auch sone gewisse Erwartungshaltung ist, dass ich da jetzt auch, ich bin bereit, jetzt auch zu investieren.",{"sentences":45623,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45628,"start":21696,"end":21799},[45624,45626],{"text":45625,"start":21696,"end":21746},"Dann, ich kauf mir eine Meta Quest für fünfhundert Euro, ja klar kaufe ich dann auch 'n Spiel für zehn, zwanzig.",{"text":45627,"start":21749,"end":21799},"Beim Smartphone ist es vielleicht eher, ja, ich hab Smartphone und, aber ich weiß nicht genau, woher dieses gekommen ist.",41,{"sentences":45630,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45639,"start":21799,"end":22129},[45631,45633,45635,45637],{"text":45632,"start":21799,"end":21834},"Also Ich meine, es ist, glaube ich, auch son bisschen dem Medium geschuldet.",{"text":45634,"start":21834,"end":21994},"Also bei 'nem Smartphone hast Du eine Internet Connection und Du hast quasi dem Browser nur ein ein Klickway sozusagen und da dann quasi mal schnell in PayPal reinzugehen oder irgendwas zu verknüpfen und dann in App Purchase zu machen, ist quasi, das ist quasi schon der Flow ist natürlich in Smartphone integriert und bei 'ner VR Brille ist das, würde ich sagen, noch nicht so.",{"text":45636,"start":21996,"end":22125},"Also da ist es schon auch teilweise, also klar, Du willst dich irgendwie, also es ist schon mega umständlich, dich überhaupt mit dem WLAN zu verbinden und irgendwie die VR Tastatur, aber klar Du bist dann früher oder später verbunden, aber es ist der der Flow ist ist einfach nicht so geil wie aufm Smartphone für sowas.",{"text":45638,"start":22125,"end":22129},"Gut, aber",138,{"sentences":45641,"speaker":487,"num_words":45230,"start":22129,"end":22202},[45642,45644,45646,45647],{"text":45643,"start":22129,"end":22145},"da können sich das ja noch hinentwickeln.",{"text":45645,"start":22145,"end":22188},"Also iris Check oder so, der mit deinem Konto verbunden ist, zack wird's direkt bestätigt.",{"text":3004,"start":22188,"end":22191},{"text":45648,"start":22191,"end":22202},"Ist ja alles denkbar.",{"sentences":45650,"speaker":507,"num_words":44746,"start":22206,"end":22229},[45651],{"text":45652,"start":22206,"end":22229},"Ehrlicherweise, genauso ist es ja auf der Vision Pro.",{"sentences":45654,"speaker":487,"num_words":44531,"start":22229,"end":22243},[45655],{"text":45656,"start":22229,"end":22243},"Ist es auf der Vision Pro.",{"sentences":45658,"speaker":507,"num_words":45661,"start":22243,"end":22335},[45659],{"text":45660,"start":22243,"end":22335},"Ja, wenn Du was einkaufst oder hast, wie heißt das Vision Optic ID aktiviert sowie Face- oder Touch ID aufm Smartphone, dann grinst Du kurz in deine Brille und dann ist dein Kauf bestätigt.",34,{"sentences":45663,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45241,"start":22337,"end":22350},[45664],{"text":45665,"start":22337,"end":22350},"Hab ich das gerade gekauft,",{"sentences":45667,"speaker":487,"num_words":44746,"start":22350,"end":22372},[45668,45670],{"text":45669,"start":22350,"end":22364},"ich hab nämlich grad Tinyfans gekauft.",{"text":45671,"start":22367,"end":22372},"Aber Du musst",{"sentences":45673,"speaker":507,"num_words":45676,"start":22372,"end":22408},[45674],{"text":45675,"start":22372,"end":22408},"das, Du musst das halt einmalig einrichten, so wie Touch ID und sowas halt.",14,{"sentences":45678,"speaker":487,"num_words":45008,"start":22408,"end":22531},[45679,45681,45683,45685,45686],{"text":45680,"start":22408,"end":22439},"Okay, stimmt, ich glaub ich hab mal 'n Passwort eingegeben.",{"text":45682,"start":22439,"end":22466},"Ich weiß das gar nicht mehr, ich bin so vergesslich.",{"text":45684,"start":22470,"end":22490},"Krass, ich hab ich glaub mein Passwort eingegeben.",{"text":22495,"start":22493,"end":22494},{"text":45687,"start":22497,"end":22531},"Ich ich würd gern noch mal über eine eine sehr wichtige Sache sprechen für mich.",{"sentences":45689,"speaker":487,"num_words":44762,"start":22531,"end":22675},[45690,45691,45693,45695,45697],{"text":7667,"start":22531,"end":22534},{"text":45692,"start":22536,"end":22566},"Weil weil ich ja auch dieses Thema VR, AR und so generell sehr mag.",{"text":45694,"start":22566,"end":22595},"Und das habt ihr auch schon häufiger erwähnt jetzt während der Aufnahme.",{"text":45696,"start":22598,"end":22670},"Und zwar habt ihr von sonem magischen Effekt gesprochen oder ich hab mir auch die auch noch von anbau designen Design angeschaut, da stand auf 'ner Folie irgendwo Hype Magie.",{"text":3454,"start":22674,"end":22675},{"sentences":45699,"speaker":487,"num_words":44440,"start":22677,"end":22748},[45700,45702],{"text":45701,"start":22677,"end":22696},"Und und es es muss sich einfach gut anfühlen.",{"text":45703,"start":22699,"end":22748},"Und ich find, das sind so zwei Begriffe, die man auf jeden Fall nennen muss, Immersion und diesen von,",{"sentences":45705,"speaker":507,"num_words":45268,"start":22751,"end":22794},[45706,45707],{"text":22755,"start":22751,"end":22752},{"text":45708,"start":22752,"end":22794},"Das musst Du jetzt aber auch erst mal erklären, was das für alle da draußen, die jetzt",{"sentences":45710,"speaker":487,"num_words":1137,"start":22796,"end":22800},[45711],{"text":45712,"start":22796,"end":22800},"Aber ist",{"sentences":45714,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44503,"start":22800,"end":22823},[45715,45717],{"text":45716,"start":22800,"end":22818},"jetzt den Namen von dem Mihai.",{"text":3004,"start":22822,"end":22823},{"sentences":45719,"speaker":487,"num_words":1137,"start":22826,"end":22831},[45720],{"text":45721,"start":22826,"end":22831},"Oder so.",{"sentences":45723,"speaker":507,"num_words":1137,"start":22831,"end":22836},[45724],{"text":44750,"start":22831,"end":22836},{"sentences":45726,"speaker":1287,"num_words":1287,"start":22836,"end":22843},[45727],{"text":45728,"start":22836,"end":22843},"Ja, genau, genau.",{"sentences":45730,"speaker":487,"num_words":44655,"start":22843,"end":22984},[45731,45733,45735,45737,45739],{"text":45732,"start":22843,"end":22848},"Also genau.",{"text":45734,"start":22851,"end":22868},"Das das können die Gäste ja übernehmen.",{"text":45736,"start":22871,"end":22949},"Also dass dass wir vielleicht diese Begriffe, Immersion, Flow State vielleicht mal einordnen und grad auch so Sachen, über die ihr auch gesprochen habt, wie Accessibility, vielleicht auch Optimierung bei der Entwicklung.",{"text":45738,"start":22951,"end":22968},"Wie wichtig ist es halt für euch insgesamt?",{"text":45740,"start":22968,"end":22984},"Wie sehr denkt ihr ganze Zeit dran?",{"sentences":45742,"speaker":487,"num_words":45745,"start":22984,"end":23028},[45743],{"text":45744,"start":22984,"end":23028},"Was sind so eure Marker dafür, dass das alles umgesetzt wird, damit am Ende halt genau dieses Feeling entsteht?",19,{"sentences":45747,"speaker":1287,"num_words":2873,"start":23031,"end":23522},[45748,45750,45752,45754,45756],{"text":45749,"start":23031,"end":23118},"Also grundsätzlich Immersion ist ja son bisschen, also je nachdem, ob wir jetzt im VR oder im AR Bereich sind, aber jetzt zum Beispiel im AR Bereich ist es son bisschen, wie echt fühlt sich das Ganze an?",{"text":45751,"start":23118,"end":23238},"Also wie sehr ist dieses drei D Objekt, fühlt sich das real für dich an, was Du jetzt vor dir im Raum hast und da drin ist die Vision zum Beispiel sehr stark, einfach weil die quasi das Lighting generiert aus der Umgebung und auch sehr gut mit den Schatten ist.",{"text":45753,"start":23238,"end":23355},"Und da sind wir auch bei 'nem guten Punkt, also Schatten zum Beispiel und Ambient Oclusion, also Ambient Oclusion für die, die es nicht wissen, ist son bisschen so was wie 'n Kontaktschatten, also wenn zwei Flächen aufeinandertreffen, dann wird son son Ticken dunkler zur Kante hin.",{"text":45755,"start":23355,"end":23435},"Das ist was, was das Gehirn automatisch macht, das lässt sich physisch nicht wirklich, also es ist jetzt nicht, dass das irgendwie von von von von der Lichtquelle abhängig ist, sondern das ist einfach da.",{"text":45757,"start":23437,"end":23522},"Und quasi, wenn man diese zwei Schatten drin hat und die halbwegs gut sind, dann ist das schon sehr wichtig für die Immersion grundsätzlich im Raum und grade auch, wie das drei D Objekt im im Raum verankert ist.",{"sentences":45759,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45241,"start":23524,"end":23535},[45760],{"text":45761,"start":23524,"end":23535},"Was war der andere Begriff?",{"sentences":45763,"speaker":487,"num_words":1137,"start":23538,"end":23542},[45764],{"text":45765,"start":23538,"end":23542},"Flow State.",{"sentences":45767,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44531,"start":23545,"end":23559},[45768,45770],{"text":45769,"start":23545,"end":23550},"Aber genau.",{"text":45771,"start":23552,"end":23559},"Oder bist Du noch?",{"sentences":45773,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45784,"start":23562,"end":23794},[45774,45776,45778,45780,45782],{"text":45775,"start":23562,"end":23566},"Flow State?",{"text":45777,"start":23570,"end":23610},"Ich hätte jetzt nicht, mir würde jetzt nicht direkt was einfallen, was dann irgendwie damit zu VR Development gehört.",{"text":45779,"start":23610,"end":23640},"Also Flow State ist für mich einfach wirklich das, was beim Gaming auftritt.",{"text":45781,"start":23640,"end":23725},"Also ich kenn's noch einfach so, man hatte immer, man versucht diese Balance herzustellen, dass etwas nicht zu schwer ist, weil dann überfordert's einen, aber auch nicht zu leicht ist, weil dann hat man Langeweile.",{"text":45783,"start":23728,"end":23794},"Wenn Du in diesem Modus bist, ich mein, als Programmierer kennt man's hoffentlich, dass man irgendwann einfach in diesem Tunnel ist, das wär jetzt der Flow State.",96,{"sentences":45786,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44711,"start":23797,"end":23857},[45787],{"text":45788,"start":23797,"end":23857},"Mit 'nem guten Game kann man das erreichen, ist für mich aber unabhängig das Konzept von VR AR, das kann man auch damit erreichen, aber",{"sentences":45790,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45794,"start":23859,"end":24051},[45791,45792],{"text":1146,"start":23859,"end":23860},{"text":45793,"start":23860,"end":24051},"Genau, also Flow ist ja quasi, man ist ja gut in dem Flow State drin, wenn man einfach eine Schwierigkeit wählt, die die dich fordert, aber nicht überfordert, aber schon eigentlich fast schon so an der Grenze ist und dich auch so langsam reinführt, also dass Du quasi, also man kann ja quasi in Steps in diesen Flow reingeführt werden und das ist wahrscheinlich einfach gutes Gamedesign, das hat glaube ich jetzt nicht direkt mit VR was zu tun.",80,{"sentences":45796,"speaker":507,"num_words":2899,"start":24051,"end":24589},[45797,45799],{"text":45798,"start":24051,"end":24310},"Aber ist das nicht so, These, ich hab keine Ahnung, ich hab da nicht meine Abschlussarbeit drüber geschrieben, dass in 'nem VR und AR Space Performance viel wichtiger ist, son State zu erhalten, weil wenn ich jetzt an meinem Rechner sitz und ich spiel hier, weiß nicht, mal meinen Shooter oder sowas und da droppt ab und zu mal son Frame, dann ist das halt irgendwie ärgerlich, aber das stört mich nicht weiter, aber wenn ich gerade in 'nem Area- oder via Space unterwegs bin und das droppt eins oder zwei Frames, dann bricht so meine Realität mich rum.",{"text":45800,"start":24310,"end":24589},"So und das ist, glaube ich, viel mehr disruptive in dem Moment, ja, wenn ich jetzt im beim beim Bizepsspielen irgendwie hart dabei bin so, ja, und auf einmal hüpfen so alle Klötzen, mich rum, anstatt sich irgendwie flüssig zu bewegen oder so, da ist direkt dieser State halt kaputt so, weil ich weiß auch, okay, hier hat irgendwie gerade meine, also son Glitch in der Matrix hab ich rum aufgetreten, ja, und meine Realität war kurz kaputt und das das glaube ich, das was Du meinst, Dave, ne, dass dass man so dieses Performance dann irgendwie machen muss, weil das halt auf einmal sehr viel wichtiger wird, als es vorher vielleicht war.",{"sentences":45802,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45813,"start":24591,"end":24942},[45803,45805,45807,45809,45811],{"text":45804,"start":24591,"end":24609},"Das stimmt, ja nee, ist 'n guter Punkt.",{"text":45806,"start":24609,"end":24683},"Also ich würd generell sagen, also ich find so irgendwie auf allen Plattformen Performance wichtig, so, das sollte man einfach dann einhalten, deswegen, aber ja, es ist bei VR bestimmt noch mal wichtiger.",{"text":45808,"start":24683,"end":24810},"Es ist auch in dem Sinne bei VR dieses mit dem Optimierung noch mal wichtiger, weil man halt überlegen muss, also bei der Vision Pro zum Beispiel, klar, die hat 'n starken Chip, ich glaub, das ist der m2, also wie wie eine Macbook Air, aber da sind zwei vier k Displays drin, so.",{"text":45810,"start":24810,"end":24903},"Das heißt, diese Brille muss wirklich drei D Objekte im Raum erkennen, die muss den ganzen Kram machen, wir haben da Sachen rumfliegen und das mit sonem Mobile Chip am Ende des Tages, der ja mit 'ner Batterie gepowert wird.",{"text":45812,"start":24903,"end":24942},"Man stößt schnell an Stellen, wenn man nicht optimiert, wo es halt einfach kritisch wird.",150,{"sentences":45815,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45052,"start":24942,"end":25110},[45816,45818,45820],{"text":45817,"start":24942,"end":25019},"Also das muss man, ja, das haben wir die ganze Zeit beim Development im Kopf behalten müssen und da vor allem am Anfang war es halt spannend, weil da gab's einfach noch keine Guidelines dafür.",{"text":45819,"start":25019,"end":25080},"Also da teilweise haben wir dann auch Sachen gefunden, die dann sozusagen bei dem Community Framework noch kaputt waren, ne, die die optimieren mussten und so weiter.",{"text":45821,"start":25082,"end":25110},"Das ist natürlich immer der Struggle, wenn man früh dabei ist sozusagen.",{"sentences":45823,"speaker":1287,"num_words":2873,"start":25112,"end":25617},[45824,45826,45828,45830,45832],{"text":45825,"start":25112,"end":25314},"Aber es ist auch interessant das Thema in dem Sinne, weil es ist glaube ich für VR ist es unfassbar wichtig, dass es gut optimized ist, weil Du Du willst keine sechzig FPS, also Du willst eher neunzig FPS oder hundertzwanzig FPS, weil Du wirklich, Du willst wirklich, also da sind wir wieder im Begriff immersiv, also Du bist dann schon eher in dieser Anwendung drin und ich hab auch das Gefühl, dass Motion Sickness weniger auftritt, wenn Du eine höhere Framerate hast.",{"text":45827,"start":25314,"end":25376},"Also gerade wenn dann es anfängt zu ruckeln beim Testen und so, das sind dann schon eher die Momente, wo einem mal son bisschen schlecht wird.",{"text":45829,"start":25378,"end":25527},"Und also gerade bei einem, also zum Beispiel es gab einen Biatsaber Klon für die Vision Pro, der der rausgekommen ist und der war nicht so komplett flüssig und jedem, also also ich zum Beispiel bin jemand, der kein Problem mit Motion Stickness hat auf auf VR Brillen und mir war auch nach einer Minute kurz übel, als wir das gespielt haben.",{"text":45831,"start":25527,"end":25545},"Also es war auf jeden Fall, also optimieren.",{"text":45833,"start":25545,"end":25617},"Und das Verrückte ist, jetzt gerade als Division rausgekommen ist, also da sind teilweise muss man an Sachen denken, die aus dem typischen Game Development jetzt nicht unbedingt son Ding sind.",{"sentences":45835,"speaker":1287,"num_words":2873,"start":25617,"end":26127},[45836,45838,45839,45841,45843],{"text":45837,"start":25617,"end":25667},"Also wie viele, also klar ist das schon auch 'n Ding, aber zum Beispiel drauf wir gekommen sind, sind Draw Calls.",{"text":3454,"start":25667,"end":25670},{"text":45840,"start":25672,"end":25755},"Also es ist nicht nur wichtig, wie ist der, wie hoch aufgelöst sind die drei D Modelle und wie viele, sondern auch wie viele Materialien werden verwendet und wie viele Gameobjekts gibt's generell.",{"text":45842,"start":25755,"end":25838},"Also was man zum Beispiel gerne mal macht, 'n bisschen Zeit zu sparen, ist zum Beispiel, man macht einen leeres Gameobjekt, einen drei-d-Modell drum rum, zum Beispiel son gewissen Offset zu haben.",{"text":45844,"start":25838,"end":26127},"Also dass Du quasi das Gameobjekt selbst ist bei null null null, wenn wir jetzt die die Spielwelt nehmen, also quasi genau in der Mitte, aber Du willst quasi, dass das drei D Objekt immer drei Meter von der Mitte entfernt ist und kannst dann quasi, wenn Du's mit Code ansteuerst, halt quasi immer mit null null null rechnen, obwohl das also son bisschen und das ist sone Denke, die man sich son, die ich mir zum Beispiel son bisschen so angewöhnt hatte und die dann aber einfach Performance gekostet hat auf der Vision am Anfang, weil die dann quasi dieses drei D Objekt noch mal als dieses leere Objekt noch mal als Extraobjekt mit berechnet hat und das dann und so weiter.",{"sentences":45846,"speaker":1287,"num_words":1137,"start":26127,"end":26131},[45847],{"text":45494,"start":26127,"end":26131},{"sentences":45849,"speaker":507,"num_words":45329,"start":26131,"end":26392},[45850,45852,45854,45856,45858],{"text":45851,"start":26131,"end":26193},"Lass uns vielleicht noch mal über Performance sprechen, weil da sind ja die beiden großen Plattformen, die Quest und die Vision Pro gerade sehr unterschiedlich aufgestellt.",{"text":45853,"start":26196,"end":26238},"So und auch ja bewusst sehr unterschiedlich aufstellt, ne, also Vision Pro, mehr Kameras, irgendwie mehr Displays.",{"text":45855,"start":26241,"end":26323},"Du hast grade die die ganzen Lightning Berechnungen irgendwie angesprochen, die da schon so für dich erledigt werden und Apple versucht da ja so im Prinzip möglichst authentisch, möglichst performant was zu bieten, so.",{"text":45857,"start":26325,"end":26371},"Und gefühlt, ich bin kein Profi, aber gefühlt geht Meta mit mit der Questzone sehr andere Route, so.",{"text":45859,"start":26373,"end":26392},"Alles 'n bisschen kleiner, alles 'n bisschen lowkey.",{"sentences":45861,"speaker":507,"num_words":45872,"start":26396,"end":26890},[45862,45864,45866,45868,45870],{"text":45863,"start":26396,"end":26483},"Sie haben gefühlt auch gar nicht den Anspruch, so viel authentizierter reinzubringen, ja, aber ermöglichen halt dadurch einfach eine andere Art oder überhaupt erst mal Games, die es ja vorher so gar nicht gab, ja.",{"text":45865,"start":26486,"end":26539},"Und ich hab da neulich mit meinem Bruder drüber gesprochen, weil der auch da so in dem Space 'n bisschen unterwegs ist.",{"text":45867,"start":26542,"end":26702},"Und die Frage ist ja, ist das 'n Problem, was sich über Zeit einfach löst, weil irgendwann wird Performance billig und möglich genug, dass man das auch in kleineren billigeren Headsets unterbringt oder ist das wie im PC Gaming halt auch, dass es trotzdem, also auch wenn gute Performance immer erschwinglicher wird, die noch viel bessere Performance ja auch immer noch da sein wird, so, ja?",{"text":45869,"start":26702,"end":26745},"Also 'n Headset, was dreimal so viel kostet, wird immer noch mal mehr Performance irgendwie bringen können, ja?",{"text":45871,"start":26747,"end":26890},"Und wo seht ihr da so den den Gaming Markt, dass er so wirklich auf dieses Triple-a-Level hinzielt und fotorealistisch dir irgendwelche Welten bieten will oder eher in so Spielen wie jetzt bei bei Tiny Finns, bei Beatsaver, bei Pistol Wippie halt mit 'nem mit 'nem ganz anderen Ansatz da eigentlich fahren, ja?",194,{"sentences":45874,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44813,"start":26892,"end":27286},[45875,45877,45879,45881,45883],{"text":45876,"start":26892,"end":26928},"Also ich glaube auf jeden Fall son bisschen dieses, also hast Du so zwei Aspekte angesprochen.",{"text":45878,"start":26928,"end":27049},"Also das eine ist auf jeden Fall immer, ja, die Brillen werden immer stärker, aber natürlich erstens heißt es dann auch zum Beispiel mehr Pixel, also das heißt, die Performance wird dann irgendwo auch verbraucht und die Ansprüche werden auch immer höher, also das heißt, da muss man dann doch wieder optimieren.",{"text":45880,"start":27051,"end":27153},"Das andere finde ich halt super spannend, dieses mit dem geht's so in Richtung Fotorealismus, weil das ist sone Bewegung, die mich persönlich teilweise son bisschen abfuckt, weil man dann immer dieses hat, oh, wir wollen's jetzt noch realistischer, wollen's immer wieder realistischer.",{"text":45882,"start":27156,"end":27254},"Aber meine persönliche Wahrnehmung ist gerade im VR Bereich, also man dachte, finde ich, am Anfang immer so, ah, damit's immersiv ist, muss es fotorealistisch sein, weil dann sieht's ja aus wie die echte Welt, aber das stimmt einfach gar nicht.",{"text":45884,"start":27254,"end":27286},"Also die andere Aspekte machen es immersiv und das kann auch komplett stylized sein.",{"sentences":45886,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44503,"start":27288,"end":27302},[45887],{"text":45888,"start":27288,"end":27302},"Das macht's oft sogar noch mehr immersiv.",{"sentences":45890,"speaker":507,"num_words":45896,"start":27302,"end":27518},[45891,45893,45894],{"text":45892,"start":27302,"end":27444},"Aber sorry, wenn ich da kurz unterbrechen, weil also ich, in der Beobachtung würde ich hier voll zustimmen, ja, so, wenn ich Bit selber spiele, fühle ich mich voll drin, weil also, ne, egal ob's jetzt high poly ist oder nicht, aber dadurch das halt gut funktioniert und akkurat ist, fühlt es sich echt an.",{"text":12546,"start":27444,"end":27446},{"text":45895,"start":27448,"end":27518},"Aber die Frage ist, ist es nicht einfach nur so low poly, weil es nicht anders geht Und ist die Erwartungshaltung nicht eigentlich doch eine andere, aber man kann halt einfach nicht?",88,{"sentences":45898,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45282,"start":27518,"end":27792},[45899,45901,45903,45905,45907],{"text":45900,"start":27518,"end":27526},"Ich glaube nicht.",{"text":45902,"start":27528,"end":27615},"Also, meine Meinung dazu ist genauso, also hier Inside out zum Beispiel, Disney Pixar Filme, die sind nicht, also, die wären jetzt nicht besser dadurch, wenn es echte Schauspieler wären, meiner Meinung nach.",{"text":45904,"start":27618,"end":27690},"Also diese Charaktere sind Stylyzed, die können Emotionen, also wie 'n guter Comic noch mal auf 'nem anderen Level vermitteln und da hat's einfach seinen seinen Platz.",{"text":45906,"start":27690,"end":27722},"Also jetzt zum Beispiel Disney und Pixar, die haben ja praktisch kein Performance Limit.",{"text":45908,"start":27722,"end":27792},"Also die haben da riesige Renderfarmen, deren Lightning und die Berechnung, die die anstellen, sind Wahnsinn, aber die Charaktere sind trotzdem in dem Sinne simpel.",{"sentences":45910,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44711,"start":27792,"end":27856},[45911],{"text":45912,"start":27792,"end":27856},"Also die haben wahrscheinlich Millionen von Polygone und so, aber wenn man die sich anguckt, ist ja ganz klar, das ist kein echter Mensch, so.",{"sentences":45914,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45924,"start":27858,"end":28137},[45915,45916,45918,45920,45922],{"text":3004,"start":27858,"end":27859},{"text":45917,"start":27859,"end":27919},"Ich glaub, wo man auch aufpassen muss, ist, die Technik ist auf jeden Fall noch nicht da, dass Du in VR Fotorealismus wirklich geil darstellen kannst.",{"text":45919,"start":27922,"end":27958},"Und sobald Du versuchst, realistisch zu sein, landest Du schnell in der Uncanny Valley.",{"text":45921,"start":27958,"end":28047},"Also Du bist dann, grade wenn's jetzt Menschen oder so was geht, das ist, ich kenn kein Computerspiel, was auf dem Level ist, dass Du denkst, wow, das ist das sieht grade fotorealistisch aus in Realtime.",{"text":45923,"start":28051,"end":28137},"Das geht bei Produktpräsentationen, also wenn Du zum Beispiel im AR Bereich sagst, ey, wir schauen uns jetzt den neuen Föhn von Dyson in drei d an und zeigen das 'n paar Leuten, dann natürlich schon.",113,{"sentences":45926,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45436,"start":28137,"end":28224},[45927,45929],{"text":45928,"start":28137,"end":28171},"Und gerade bei metallischen oder sagen wir glänzenden Sachen geht das auch schon relativ gut.",{"text":45930,"start":28173,"end":28224},"Aber gerade wenn's auch organische Sachen geht, Pflanzen, Menschen, Tiere, da ist Fotorealismus ist noch nicht so weit.",{"sentences":45932,"speaker":487,"num_words":44740,"start":28227,"end":28380},[45933,45935,45937,45938,45940],{"text":45934,"start":28227,"end":28304},"Ja, ich glaube ich bin da aber insgesamt auch 'n bisschen mal Seppi so, Was Du auch gesagt hast, so man man macht so sein eigenes Artwork und so, seinen eigenen Style.",{"text":45936,"start":28304,"end":28328},"Ich find 'n ganz großes Beispiel dafür ist ja auch Nintendo.",{"text":3004,"start":28331,"end":28332},{"text":45939,"start":28332,"end":28358},"Die haben jetzt überhaupt keine krasse Hardware schon seit Jahrzehnten nicht.",{"text":45941,"start":28358,"end":28380},"Aber die Spiele sehen ja trotzdem irgendwie schön aus, ne.",{"sentences":45943,"speaker":487,"num_words":45950,"start":28380,"end":28531},[45944,45946,45948],{"text":45945,"start":28380,"end":28423},"Wenn man jetzt so Mario oder auch The Legend of Zelda anschaut, die haben son eigenes Artwork.",{"text":45947,"start":28426,"end":28457},"Man man findet's trotzdem schön und ansprechend so, ist aber natürlich nicht super hochauflösend.",{"text":45949,"start":28460,"end":28531},"Und ich glaub, da versucht man, glaub ich, auch in VR oder AR auch gar nicht hinzugehen, sondern eher so wirklich, wir machen unseren eigenen Art Style und das versuchen wir gut rüberzubringen.",64,{"sentences":45952,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45963,"start":28534,"end":28763},[45953,45955,45957,45959,45961],{"text":45954,"start":28534,"end":28539},"Genau, ja.",{"text":45956,"start":28539,"end":28589},"Das wird son bisschen, glaube ich, halt durch die Performance Limitierung wird's erzwungen und deswegen gehen die Leute in die Richtung.",{"text":45958,"start":28589,"end":28626},"Ich glaube, viele würden versuchen, Fotorealismus zu gehen und es wird auch sicherlich kommen.",{"text":45960,"start":28626,"end":28675},"Und ich glaube auch, das ist ja immer dieses Ding, dieser Fotorealismus Punkt ist beeindruckend, solange es das Beste ist.",{"text":45962,"start":28675,"end":28763},"Also wenn wir jetzt zehn Jahre zurückgehen, ich glaub, man erinnert sich immer so, zum Beispiel die PS3 kam raus, das Spiel, was dann da rauskam, war für einen, oh mein Gott, das sieht jetzt aus wie echt.",95,{"sentences":45965,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44604,"start":28766,"end":28800},[45966],{"text":45967,"start":28766,"end":28800},"Man guckt fünf Jahre später wieder drauf, dann so, nee, nee, nee, das war nicht gut.",{"sentences":45969,"speaker":487,"num_words":45676,"start":28802,"end":28838},[45970,45972],{"text":45971,"start":28802,"end":28817},"War das damals wirklich, ja, crazy.",{"text":45973,"start":28817,"end":28838},"Haben alle gesagt, okay, realistischer geht's nicht mehr.",{"sentences":45975,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44871,"start":28841,"end":28983},[45976,45978],{"text":45977,"start":28841,"end":28900},"Ja, und ich glaub, diese Momente werden in VR auch kommen und wahrscheinlich noch mal krasser sein, so, oh mein Gott, das sieht jetzt wirklich echt aus.",{"text":45979,"start":28900,"end":28983},"Und das, ich glaub, das ist cool und ich find's geil, wenn es dann irgendwann geht, aber das heißt nicht, dass dann Styylzed und und halt 'n simplerer Look nicht trotzdem Platz hat.",{"sentences":45981,"speaker":507,"num_words":44462,"start":28983,"end":29062},[45982,45984],{"text":45983,"start":28983,"end":28990},"Das ist richtig.",{"text":45985,"start":28990,"end":29062},"Ich hatte übrigens son Erlebnis, als ich Final Fantasy damals im Kino geguckt hab, das war ja auch 3D gerendert, aber halt so mit echten Menschen.",{"sentences":45987,"speaker":487,"num_words":45241,"start":29062,"end":29075},[45988],{"text":45989,"start":29062,"end":29075},"Final Fantasy hat son Kinofilm?",{"sentences":45991,"speaker":507,"num_words":505,"start":29078,"end":29094},[45992,45993],{"text":3004,"start":29078,"end":29079},{"text":45994,"start":29079,"end":29094},"Ja, Dave, das war vor deiner Zeit.",{"sentences":45996,"speaker":487,"num_words":44519,"start":29094,"end":29109},[45997],{"text":45998,"start":29094,"end":29109},"Alter, da ist krass.",{"sentences":46000,"speaker":507,"num_words":45661,"start":29112,"end":29191},[46001,46003],{"text":46002,"start":29112,"end":29177},"Und als ich den gesehen hab, damals sagt er auch so, okay krass, jetzt sind alle Schauspieler arbeitslos und wir werden nur noch so 3D gerenderte Menschen haben.",{"text":46004,"start":29177,"end":29191},"Wenn Du ihn dir heute anguckst,",{"sentences":46006,"speaker":1287,"num_words":1137,"start":29191,"end":29198},[46007],{"text":46008,"start":29191,"end":29198},"so kannst",{"sentences":46010,"speaker":507,"num_words":45198,"start":29198,"end":29308},[46011,46013],{"text":46012,"start":29198,"end":29259},"Du mal einen Trailer nachher schauen, dann denkst Du auch so, da ist der ja mit Tomaten im Augen ins Kino gegangen.",{"text":46014,"start":29262,"end":29308},"Ja okay, aber dann lass uns doch mal son bisschen in die Zukunft vielleicht schauen, wie sich dieses denn Oh,",{"sentences":46016,"speaker":487,"num_words":505,"start":29308,"end":29330},[46017],{"text":46018,"start":29308,"end":29330},"ich hatte vorhin noch mal eine Frage Okay,",{"sentences":46020,"speaker":507,"num_words":505,"start":29330,"end":29349},[46021],{"text":46022,"start":29330,"end":29349},"lass uns doch nicht in die Zukunft schauen.",{"sentences":46024,"speaker":487,"num_words":45052,"start":29352,"end":29531},[46025,46027,46029,46031,46033],{"text":46026,"start":29352,"end":29404},"Es ist natürlich, man man spricht nicht so übers Geld, aber ich würd trotzdem bisschen über das Finanzielle son bisschen sprechen.",{"text":46028,"start":29406,"end":29453},"Und zwar fand ich das interessant, weil ihr vorhin angeschnitten habt, so ihr hattet bisher keine Web AR Anwendung gemacht Mhm.",{"text":46030,"start":29453,"end":29458},"Und genau.",{"text":46032,"start":29458,"end":29528},"Ich ich hab ja immer so geschaut, zum Beispiel jetzt, was die Apple Vision Pro angeht und es gibt keine genauen Angaben, wie viel davon jetzt verkauft worden sind.",{"text":3004,"start":29528,"end":29531},{"sentences":46035,"speaker":487,"num_words":46046,"start":29531,"end":29816},[46036,46038,46040,46042,46044],{"text":46037,"start":29531,"end":29581},"Aber wir haben ja so trotzdem generell festgestellt, die sowohl dieser VR als auch Mixed Reality als auch AR Markt relativ klein, ne.",{"text":46039,"start":29581,"end":29628},"Und dann natürlich, wenn man dann halt auch eine Anwendung für macht, die verkauft und so, sind potenziell nicht sehr viele Kunden.",{"text":46041,"start":29628,"end":29715},"Und da ist son bisschen die Frage, diese dieser gesamte Bereich Web AR, der ist ja viel zugänglicher, weil jeder hat ja quasi 'n Smartphone und dass man daraus potenziell also 'n viel größeren Markt bedient.",{"text":46043,"start":29718,"end":29764},"Ist das auch was, was für euch spannend ist, wo ihr dann auch grade Überlegung macht, vielleicht eher in die Richtung zu gehen?",{"text":46045,"start":29764,"end":29816},"Oder sagt ihr, momentan fahrt ihr mit der Größe eures Teams und so insgesamt damit gut, so wie es grade ist?",125,{"sentences":46048,"speaker":1287,"num_words":46057,"start":29818,"end":30098},[46049,46051,46053,46055,46056],{"text":46050,"start":29818,"end":29826},"Ist eine gute Frage.",{"text":46052,"start":29826,"end":29967},"Also bei uns ist es natürlich immer son bisschen, es ist sone Mischung aus, wir haben Bock uns da drauf zu stürzen und was sind die Anfragen, die wir bekommen oder wenn wir quasi, wenn wir auf, natürlich sind wir hin und wieder auch auf Networking Events unterwegs, was ist da so der Vibe, worauf stehen die Leute gerade?",{"text":46054,"start":29970,"end":30092},"Und genau, bis jetzt ist, glaube ich, also ich glaub das, was uns hauptsächlich von von Web AR abgehalten hat, ist wirklich, wie Seppi schon gesagt hat, es gibt eigentlich nur einen, der das richtig gut macht, was wir was auf dem Qualitätslevel ist, was wir Kunden anbieten wollen und die sind viel zu teuer.",{"text":3454,"start":30095,"end":30096},{"text":3004,"start":30096,"end":30098},120,{"sentences":46059,"speaker":1137,"num_words":46067,"start":30100,"end":30217},[46060,46061,46063,46065,46066],{"text":3004,"start":30100,"end":30101},{"text":46062,"start":30104,"end":30135},"Also sonst wüsste ich jetzt auch nicht direkt, was mir noch dazu einfällt.",{"text":46064,"start":30135,"end":30212},"Also grad wenn man jetzt den Mobile Market anspricht, dann so was wie, Pokémon Go hat's ja in dem Sinne vorgemacht, kannst Du ja auch mit 'ner App riesengroß sein.",{"text":3454,"start":30212,"end":30214},{"text":1106,"start":30214,"end":30217},46,{"sentences":46069,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44925,"start":30219,"end":30337},[46070,46072],{"text":46071,"start":30219,"end":30312},"Genau, also wir wenn 'n neues Medium rauskommt wie die Vision Pro zum Beispiel, dann stürzen wir uns da drauf, haben dann quasi mal geguckt, was geht auf dem Markt und wir haben festgestellt, dass damit lässt sich jetzt nicht das große Geld machen.",{"text":46073,"start":30312,"end":30337},"Also das Spiel bringt uns, hat uns vielleicht, weiß ich nicht,",{"sentences":46075,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45241,"start":30340,"end":30351},[46076],{"text":46077,"start":30340,"end":30351},"fünftausend Euro glaube ich bisher.",{"sentences":46079,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44925,"start":30351,"end":30492},[46080,46082,46084,46086,46088],{"text":46081,"start":30351,"end":30366},"Fünftausend Euro bis jetzt eingebracht.",{"text":46083,"start":30370,"end":30398},"Das ist bei einer Entwicklungszeit von vier Monaten natürlich absurd lächerlich.",{"text":46085,"start":30400,"end":30441},"Das ist jetzt, es ist cool, also es ist einfach 'n cooles Ding gewesen, es hat mega Bock gemacht.",{"text":46087,"start":30443,"end":30465},"Aber es ist jetzt nicht das, was unsere Firma finanziert.",{"text":46089,"start":30468,"end":30492},"Da geht man dann doch wieder in die Kundenprojekte eher.",{"sentences":46091,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44775,"start":30492,"end":30621},[46092,46093,46094,46096,46098],{"text":3454,"start":30492,"end":30495},{"text":3004,"start":30495,"end":30499},{"text":46095,"start":30499,"end":30590},"Das ist eher so eine Referenz, die wir nutzen können, Projekte zu bekommen, aber wenn wir jetzt einfach 'n Game Studio wären und das wär jetzt, das wär unser Produkt und wir machen nur Vision Pro Games, boah tough.",{"text":46097,"start":30594,"end":30614},"Ich weiß nicht, ob das irgendjemand gerade machen kann.",{"text":45900,"start":30614,"end":30621},{"sentences":46100,"speaker":507,"num_words":45268,"start":30621,"end":30664},[46101],{"text":46102,"start":30621,"end":30664},"Unabhängig davon, ob ihr das jetzt gerade machen könnt, aber wär das was, was ihr gerne machen würdet?",{"sentences":46104,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45008,"start":30667,"end":30766},[46105,46107],{"text":46106,"start":30667,"end":30764},"Also wir haben son bisschen damit geliebäugelt, wenn jetzt quasi wir eine Kooperation mit Apple hätten quasi und dann nur noch AR Games für die Vision Pro machen und dann finanziert werden, das wär schon der Dream, also das wär schon sehr geil.",{"text":3004,"start":30764,"end":30766},{"sentences":46109,"speaker":507,"num_words":44503,"start":30768,"end":30786},[46110,46111],{"text":3004,"start":30768,"end":30769},{"text":46112,"start":30772,"end":30786},"Man muss ja auch träumen dürfen.",{"sentences":46114,"speaker":487,"num_words":44718,"start":30786,"end":30991},[46115,46116,46118,46120],{"text":3004,"start":30786,"end":30789},{"text":46117,"start":30789,"end":30869},"Aber ich glaube, das ist gerade der richtige Move auch sehr früh in diesem Ökosystem drin zu sein, so quasi vielleicht sich als erstes Unternehmen auch zu etablieren, was so diesen Gaming Markt angeht.",{"text":46119,"start":30869,"end":30917},"Da hab ich mit mit Yanno vorhin geredet, weil wir auch über Apps damals für für für iOS geredet haben.",{"text":46121,"start":30919,"end":30991},"Ich hab einfach mal geschaut, so was damals irgendwie so die Top Charts war und da fand ich halt so lustig, dass dieses iFart Mobile einfach auf Platz eins war.",{"sentences":46123,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44519,"start":30991,"end":31001},[46124],{"text":46125,"start":30991,"end":31001},"Ja oder dieses Bierapp.",{"sentences":46127,"speaker":507,"num_words":44519,"start":31001,"end":31016},[46128],{"text":46129,"start":31001,"end":31016},"Ja, die haben ja",{"sentences":46131,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1137,"start":31016,"end":31022},[46132],{"text":46133,"start":31016,"end":31022},"auch diese",{"sentences":46135,"speaker":487,"num_words":44577,"start":31022,"end":31248},[46136,46138,46140,46142,46144],{"text":46137,"start":31022,"end":31035},"Bierapp, die haben gedacht.",{"text":46139,"start":31039,"end":31119},"Und dieser Knopf, also das war ja diese aFart Mobile hat sie einfach nur son Knopf, wo dann irgendwie verschiedene sind, ich glaub, acht maximal, die sie unterschieden haben und so.",{"text":46141,"start":31119,"end":31165},"Und die hat ja glaub ich auch, weiß nicht, drei Euro kostet, vier Euro oder lass es 'n Euro gewesen sein.",{"text":46143,"start":31165,"end":31209},"Aber ich glaub, die hat auch 'n riesen Revenue und war auch Platz eins zu der Charts damals.",{"text":46145,"start":31209,"end":31248},"Also deswegen, ich glaub, es lohnt sich auch auf jeden Fall sehr früh am Ball zu sein.",{"sentences":46147,"speaker":487,"num_words":1137,"start":31248,"end":31254},[46148],{"text":46149,"start":31248,"end":31254},"Ihr müsst",{"sentences":46151,"speaker":507,"num_words":44835,"start":31254,"end":31293},[46152,46154,46155],{"text":46153,"start":31254,"end":31277},"einfach die I Am Rich App für VR bauen.",{"text":31281,"start":31277,"end":31280},{"text":46156,"start":31280,"end":31293},"Dann habt ihr schon ausgesorgt.",{"sentences":46158,"speaker":1287,"num_words":1307,"start":31296,"end":31449},[46159,46161],{"text":46160,"start":31296,"end":31422},"Also was wir jetzt son bisschen gemacht haben dieses Jahr ist, wir haben uns jetzt bei anderen Agenturen im Frankfurter Raum quasi son bisschen vorgestellt als die Agentur, die für die Vision Pro entwickeln kann und haben uns da auch son bisschen etabliert und wir sind jetzt in zwei, drei Projekten deswegen für Vision Pro.",{"text":46162,"start":31424,"end":31449},"Aber genau, also im Prinzip haben wir das schon son bisschen gemacht.",{"sentences":46164,"speaker":507,"num_words":1137,"start":31449,"end":31454},[46165,46166],{"text":3454,"start":31449,"end":31451},{"text":3004,"start":31451,"end":31454},{"sentences":46168,"speaker":1137,"num_words":46171,"start":31456,"end":31525},[46169],{"text":46170,"start":31456,"end":31525},"Genau, also da wird auch grade von meinem Gefühl her vor allem Division Pro eingesetzt, so da ist so richtig die Value da, so Business Kontext und so weiter, ja.",30,{"sentences":46173,"speaker":507,"num_words":46182,"start":31527,"end":31981},[46174,46176,46178,46180],{"text":46175,"start":31527,"end":31742},"Was was glaubt ihr muss passieren, dass dieses Ökosystem allgemein größer wird, weil ja, also son bisschen Pro ist teuer, muss man gar nicht drüber reden, aber es gibt ja auch billigere Alternativen und grade wenn man jetzt sone Meta Quest 3S anguckt für irgendwie dreihundert Dollar oder sowas, glaube ich, ne, dann ist das ja im Vergleich zu anderen, grade wenn ihr sagt, man vergleicht das dann aus dem Gaming Bereich vielleicht auch mit Konsolen, ist es gar nicht mehr so teuer eigentlich, ja.",{"text":46177,"start":31744,"end":31789},"Aber ich frag mich, also aus meiner Sicht fehlt halt gefühlt sone sone Killer App in diesem Space, so.",{"text":46179,"start":31789,"end":31910},"Also weißt Du wo eine App, die Du siehst, wo Du denkst, okay, allein dafür will ich mich jetzt in diesen Space einkaufen, egal ob das jetzt mit 'ner Vision Pro oder 'ner Meta Quest oder eine Hololens, wenn Du so irgendwo gebraucht noch findest, so nachdem es keine mehr gibt, ja.",{"text":46181,"start":31910,"end":31981},"Also was kann diesen Pull Faktor halt so aufbauen, dass das irgendwie mal für die Mehrheit der Leute interessant und son bisschen aus diesem Nischen Thema rauskommt.",183,{"sentences":46184,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44453,"start":31984,"end":32054},[46185,46187,46189],{"text":46186,"start":31984,"end":32023},"Ich glaube son bisschen, dass die Killer App dann kommen wird, wenn man's wirklich im Alltag verwenden kann.",{"text":46188,"start":32023,"end":32047},"So, und damit meine ich, dass man damit auch rausgehen kann.",{"text":46190,"start":32047,"end":32054},"Also und Aber",{"sentences":46192,"speaker":507,"num_words":46171,"start":32054,"end":32126},[46193,46195],{"text":46194,"start":32054,"end":32071},"ist das nicht so ein soziales Problem?",{"text":46196,"start":32071,"end":32126},"Also ich mein, ich könnte ja jetzt auch mit meiner Vision oder mit meiner Meta Quest drei durch die Gegend laufen, aber ehrlicherweise",{"sentences":46198,"speaker":487,"num_words":44531,"start":32128,"end":32144},[46199],{"text":46200,"start":32128,"end":32144},"Gibt sehr viele Youtube Videos von.",{"sentences":46202,"speaker":507,"num_words":44711,"start":32147,"end":32206},[46203,46205],{"text":46204,"start":32147,"end":32195},"Ja, aber ehrlicherweise mache ich's halt nicht, weil ich mir denk so, die Leute würden dich, glaube ich, komisch angucken.",{"text":46206,"start":32195,"end":32206},"Ja, aber das ist ja",{"sentences":46208,"speaker":1137,"num_words":46219,"start":32206,"end":32484},[46209,46211,46213,46215,46217],{"text":46210,"start":32206,"end":32228},"'n soziales Problem, was Du mit der Technik lösen kannst.",{"text":46212,"start":32228,"end":32313},"Also genauso damals irgendwie, Du musst, wenn Du jetzt, wenn Apple jetzt die AirPods designt oder ich glaub, noch bei den ersten Kopfhörern war's auch son bisschen so die Frage, oh, würden Leute mit Kopfhörern rausgehen?",{"text":46214,"start":32316,"end":32349},"Und dann machst Du die halt irgendwie sleak und weiß und die müssen cool aussehen.",{"text":46216,"start":32352,"end":32398},"So, Du musst dich cool fühlen, wenn Du damit rausgehst und grade fühlst Du dich eher nerdy und komisch, so.",{"text":46218,"start":32398,"end":32484},"Und mal ganz davon abgesehen, dass Du natürlich damit zum Beispiel nicht Auto fahren kannst, dass Du die, wenn Du die mehr als zwei Stunden aufhast, also Du willst, Du willst die nicht vierundzwanzig sieben Stunden aufhaben.",118,{"sentences":46221,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44604,"start":32487,"end":32527},[46222],{"text":46223,"start":32487,"end":32527},"Es muss irgendwie klein, es muss kompakt sein, klar der Traum ist irgendwie Kontaktlinsen, sonst was.",{"sentences":46225,"speaker":487,"num_words":1137,"start":32530,"end":32534},[46226],{"text":46227,"start":32530,"end":32534},"Ja, also.",{"sentences":46229,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45052,"start":32537,"end":32720},[46230,46232,46234],{"text":46231,"start":32537,"end":32561},"Ich glaube, die Apps gibt's auch schon in 'nem gewissen Maße.",{"text":46233,"start":32561,"end":32627},"Die sind nur nicht, also ich glaube schon, dass wenn Du sone einfach eine normale Brille hättest wie jetzt eine Lesebrille oder eine Sehbrille und die kann AR.",{"text":46235,"start":32631,"end":32720},"Google Maps in der Eier wär der Hammer, dich irgendwohin zu navigieren oder Du bist in irgend 'nem Supermarkt und das kann dir zeigen, welches Produkt in welchem Regal steht, mal die spießigen Sachen abzudecken.",{"sentences":46237,"speaker":487,"num_words":45268,"start":32720,"end":32770},[46238],{"text":46239,"start":32720,"end":32770},"Aber nein, aber so praktisch, jedes Mal ärgere ich mich noch, warum habt ihr mit dem Regal umgestellt?",{"sentences":46241,"speaker":507,"num_words":46248,"start":32773,"end":32956},[46242,46244,46246],{"text":46243,"start":32773,"end":32816},"Aber ganz ehrlich, das war ja schon in dem ersten Demovideo zu Google Glass damals so, ne?",{"text":46245,"start":32816,"end":32933},"Da hast Du diesen Typ gesehen, der irgendwie einkaufen geht und es zeigt ihm irgendwie im Supermarkt, wo er hin muss und dann begegnet ihm jemanden, den er nicht mehr erkennt und über dem Gesicht poppt so der Name und irgendwie die Chathistorie und so weiter.",{"text":46247,"start":32936,"end":32956},"Also diesen Traum gibt es ja gefühlt seit zwanzig Jahren.",73,{"sentences":46250,"speaker":1287,"num_words":1137,"start":32956,"end":32962},[46251,46252],{"text":12546,"start":32956,"end":32959},{"text":1609,"start":32959,"end":32962},{"sentences":46254,"speaker":507,"num_words":44469,"start":32962,"end":33006},[46255,46256],{"text":1146,"start":32962,"end":32964},{"text":46257,"start":32968,"end":33006},"Gefühlt sind wir nur mit sehr kleinen Schritten irgendwie dem nähergekommen in den letzten zwanzig Jahren.",{"sentences":46259,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44925,"start":33006,"end":33135},[46260,46262,46264,46266,46268],{"text":46261,"start":33006,"end":33019},"Ja, das ist halt das Krasse.",{"text":46263,"start":33019,"end":33070},"Da musst ich auch eben dran denken, dass Du gesagt hast, ja, man will halt früh dabei sein wie bei dem App Store.",{"text":46265,"start":33070,"end":33096},"Das haben halt auch die Leute schon vor zehn Jahren gesagt.",{"text":46267,"start":33096,"end":33129},"Und man man dachte immer so, in drei Jahren ist denn Schwelle erreicht.",{"text":45181,"start":33129,"end":33135},{"sentences":46270,"speaker":507,"num_words":44604,"start":33135,"end":33173},[46271,46273],{"text":46272,"start":33135,"end":33145},"'n bisschen wie Fusionsenergie.",{"text":46274,"start":33148,"end":33173},"Wir sind eigentlich seit dreißig Jahren so kurz davor, was zu schaffen.",{"sentences":46276,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44577,"start":33173,"end":33381},[46277,46278,46280,46282],{"text":3004,"start":33173,"end":33176},{"text":46279,"start":33176,"end":33303},"Also als wir vor fünf Jahren so über die Apple Vision, über die Apple Brille philosophiert haben, es war ja irgendwie klar, dass Apple an einer arbeitet, dachte ich vor fünf Jahren schon, dass das eher in Richtung wie sone Brille geht, natürlich jetzt bisschen übertrieben, aber wie eine normale Brille und nicht wie 'n VR Headset.",{"text":46281,"start":33303,"end":33346},"Ich konnt's mir nicht vorstellen, dass Apple so was rausbringen würde, was wie 'n VR Headset aussieht überhaupt.",{"text":46283,"start":33349,"end":33381},"Ist dann halt, ja, die Technik hat anscheinend ergeben, das geht halt nicht so klein.",{"sentences":46285,"speaker":1287,"num_words":46292,"start":33384,"end":33575},[46286,46288,46290],{"text":46287,"start":33384,"end":33423},"Auf deine Frage zurückzukommen, ich glaube, es ist wirklich, es ist wirklich der Formfaktor und das Geld.",{"text":46289,"start":33423,"end":33553},"Also ich glaube, wenn wenn da eine Brille für in 'nem normalen Preisrahmen, sagen wir so teuer wie 'n iPhone tausend fünfhundert Euro oder so und die ist wirklich sleak und die ist integriert sich geil in deinen Alltag, dann würden die Anwendungen, die schon da sind, sind dann entweder gut genug oder die werden sehr schnell kommen.",{"text":46291,"start":33553,"end":33575},"Also ich glaub es ist wirklich, es ist ein Hardware Problem.",86,{"sentences":46294,"speaker":507,"num_words":44469,"start":33577,"end":33619},[46295],{"text":46296,"start":33577,"end":33619},"Also wenn man sich anguckt, was Meta neben Space gerade macht mit den Raibants oder mit dem",{"sentences":46298,"speaker":1287,"num_words":1137,"start":33622,"end":33628},[46299],{"text":46300,"start":33622,"end":33628},"Orion, wo",{"sentences":46302,"speaker":507,"num_words":44611,"start":33628,"end":33661},[46303,46305],{"text":46304,"start":33628,"end":33657},"wir ja auch vor zwei, drei Wochen hier im Podcast Orion.",{"text":33658,"start":33660,"end":33661},{"sentences":46307,"speaker":487,"num_words":505,"start":33661,"end":33684},[46308],{"text":46309,"start":33661,"end":33684},"Wir haben uns drauf Andy Orion zu sagen.",{"sentences":46311,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45230,"start":33684,"end":33755},[46312,46314,46316],{"text":46313,"start":33684,"end":33715},"Aber sogar diese, die Orion sieht immer noch son bisschen dumm aus.",{"text":46315,"start":33715,"end":33729},"Also, ja Gut, so, krass.",{"text":46317,"start":33731,"end":33755},"Weil sie kommt jetzt auch aus dem Prototyp Labor und",{"sentences":46319,"speaker":507,"num_words":44835,"start":33755,"end":33793},[46320],{"text":46321,"start":33755,"end":33793},"hat's glaube ich nicht dafür gemacht, irgendwie bei Ray Ben im Laden zu sitzen so.",{"sentences":46323,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44555,"start":33793,"end":33885},[46324],{"text":46325,"start":33793,"end":33885},"Nein, nein, aber das ist der Prototyp, den sie noch nicht verkaufen könnten, der würde irgendwie zehntausend Euro kosten, das heißt, das ist aber das Beste, was gerade geht und die sieht auch immer noch bisschen klunky aus.",{"sentences":46327,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44531,"start":33885,"end":33903},[46328],{"text":46329,"start":33885,"end":33903},"Die sind kleine D-Brille im Kino.",{"sentences":46331,"speaker":487,"num_words":45745,"start":33903,"end":33952},[46332,46334],{"text":46333,"start":33903,"end":33945},"Ja, daran, genau, da hab ich auch gedacht, weil ich auch son bisschen die Gläser hatte.",{"text":44498,"start":33945,"end":33952},{"sentences":46336,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45661,"start":33952,"end":34026},[46337,46339],{"text":46338,"start":33952,"end":33976},"So und also, ich weiß nicht, ob ich damit rausgehen würde.",{"text":46340,"start":33976,"end":34026},"Und das ist halt dann schon, also, ich glaub, das zeigt son bisschen, wie weit wir dann doch noch davon leider entfernt sind.",{"sentences":46342,"speaker":507,"num_words":44531,"start":34028,"end":34043},[46343,46344,46345],{"text":7667,"start":34028,"end":34029},{"text":34034,"start":34032,"end":34033},{"text":46346,"start":34036,"end":34043},"Dave, noch eine Frage?",{"sentences":46348,"speaker":487,"num_words":44740,"start":34043,"end":34201},[46349],{"text":46350,"start":34043,"end":34201},"Ja, vielleicht, weil wir ja grad so mit Blick in die Zukunft sind, vielleicht noch mal 'n bisschen so, was die Entwicklung explizit angeht oder ja, vielleicht so ganz allgemein, die Extended Reality Apps, was denkt ihr, wo wird sich's in den nächsten Jahren hinbewegen und welche Kinderkrankheiten müssen definitiv in der Entwicklung gelöst werden, damit das halt für viel mehr Leute zugänglich sein wird?",{"sentences":46352,"speaker":1287,"num_words":46360,"start":34204,"end":34408},[46353,46355,46357,46359],{"text":46354,"start":34204,"end":34265},"Also ich glaub, ein großes eine große Kinderkrankheit für die Entwickler wurde jetzt schon mit der Kooperation zwischen Unity und Apple bisschen leichter gemacht.",{"text":46356,"start":34265,"end":34367},"Also Du kannst quasi in deiner vertrauten Game Engine der Wahl beziehungsweise wenn Unity deine Wahl ist, kannst Du kannst Du einfach entwickeln und das dann quasi auf die Vision Pro portten oder auf die Quest oder aufs Smartphone oder ins Web.",{"text":46358,"start":34370,"end":34405},"Das ist alles schon son bisschen, das hat's auf jeden Fall schon mal wesentlich einfacher gemacht.",{"text":3454,"start":34407,"end":34408},83,{"sentences":46362,"speaker":1137,"num_words":46373,"start":34408,"end":34754},[46363,46365,46367,46369,46371],{"text":46364,"start":34408,"end":34491},"Und natürlich ist Apple auch voll die Route gegangen, alle unsere iPhone Apps funktionieren ja praktisch auch auf der Vision, beziehungsweise Swift UI geht ja auch auf der Vision, halt in zwei-d-Fenster dann logischerweise.",{"text":46366,"start":34494,"end":34555},"Das hat natürlich, ist auch in dem Sinne gut und ermöglicht theoretisch natürlich vielen Entwicklern, die irgendwie Erfahrung haben, im App Bereich da direkt einzusteigen.",{"text":46368,"start":34558,"end":34621},"Mich ist dann halt son bisschen, ich glaub, es gibt sone Riesenschwelle zwischen Leuten so, hey, ich mach Apps, ich mach irgendwie zwei d und Leuten, hey, ich mach Games.",{"text":46370,"start":34624,"end":34696},"Und das ist eigentlich dieser Gamesbereich ist viel näher am Augmented Reality Bereich und ich glaub, die ganzen App Leute sind nicht richtig abgeholt oder die Brücke werden die vielleicht nicht machen.",{"text":46372,"start":34696,"end":34754},"Also, und dann bleibt's halt bei diesen Fenster Apps und es ist son bisschen schade, weil was kann sone Fenster App am Ende des Tages wirklich?",147,{"sentences":46375,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45230,"start":34757,"end":34820},[46376],{"text":46377,"start":34757,"end":34820},"Klar, ist nicht schlecht, aber nutzt das jetzt wirklich die Brille aus oder ist es einfach, hab ich jetzt meine iPhone App auf der Brille, so, ja.",{"sentences":46379,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45125,"start":34820,"end":34922},[46380,46382],{"text":46381,"start":34820,"end":34844},"Also nur noch mal kurz Fenster App vielleicht zu klarifyen.",{"text":46383,"start":34848,"end":34922},"Also zum Beispiel wir haben am Anfang gab's total viele Apps, die auf Division Pro geportet wurden, die eigentlich fürs iPad waren und ich weiß nicht, ob ihr zum Beispiel Deadpack Joyright kennt.",{"sentences":46385,"speaker":507,"num_words":44445,"start":34925,"end":34948},[46386],{"text":46387,"start":34925,"end":34948},"Das war jetzt nicht son spannender Port, muss ich sagen.",{"sentences":46389,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44510,"start":34948,"end":35023},[46390],{"text":46391,"start":34948,"end":35023},"Genau, das ist halt quasi, ja, Du wirst irgendwie eine VR Umgebung gesetzt in son virtuelles Labor, aber eigentlich ist es wie als würdest Du das Spiel auf 'nem Beamer spielen.",{"sentences":46393,"speaker":507,"num_words":1137,"start":35025,"end":35029},[46394],{"text":46395,"start":35025,"end":35029},"Also Du",{"sentences":46397,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45241,"start":35029,"end":35040},[46398],{"text":46399,"start":35029,"end":35040},"hast 'n großen Screen vor",{"sentences":46401,"speaker":507,"num_words":1137,"start":35040,"end":35046},[46402],{"text":46403,"start":35040,"end":35046},"dir, da",{"sentences":46405,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44453,"start":35046,"end":35126},[46406,46408],{"text":46407,"start":35046,"end":35114},"ist es in zwei D, wenn Du die Finger zusammentappst, dann fliegt der nach oben und fällt dann wieder runter und es fühlt sich einfach lazy an.",{"text":46409,"start":35114,"end":35126},"Also es ist ganz nett.",{"sentences":46411,"speaker":487,"num_words":44746,"start":35129,"end":35150},[46412],{"text":46413,"start":35129,"end":35150},"Ich mein das für Leute, die keinen Bildschirm haben.",{"sentences":46415,"speaker":1287,"num_words":1137,"start":35150,"end":35155},[46416,46417],{"text":12546,"start":35150,"end":35152},{"text":3004,"start":35152,"end":35155},{"sentences":46419,"speaker":507,"num_words":44711,"start":35157,"end":35221},[46420,46421],{"text":3004,"start":35157,"end":35158},{"text":46422,"start":35158,"end":35221},"Ja, aber es ist halt einfach, Jetpack Drivriide hab ich auch gespielt und ich musste sagen, das ist einfach die schlechtere Version vom Original,",{"sentences":46424,"speaker":1287,"num_words":487,"start":35224,"end":35225},[46425],{"text":1611,"start":35224,"end":35225},{"sentences":46427,"speaker":507,"num_words":45436,"start":35225,"end":35307},[46428,46430,46432],{"text":46429,"start":35225,"end":35233},"Du gewinnst nichts.",{"text":46431,"start":35233,"end":35304},"Du hast es einfach nur in der a wie vor in so 'ner 2D Plane Folie und die Steuerung ist noch viel unakkurater als sie schon ist im Original.",{"text":35305,"start":35304,"end":35307},{"sentences":46434,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44775,"start":35310,"end":35432},[46435],{"text":46436,"start":35310,"end":35432},"Genau und das ist natürlich, also wenn Du dann natürlich irgendwie, es gibt viel coole Reports, wo dann mit dem Jetpack vielleicht wo Du im Raum rumfliegen kannst, aber Du musst dir dann, es gibt einfach Mechanics, die dann vielleicht nicht mehr funktionieren und ich weiß gar nicht worauf ich hinaus wollte damit.",{"sentences":46438,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44988,"start":35435,"end":35554},[46439,46441,46442],{"text":46440,"start":35435,"end":35458},"Ja, also die meisten Apps sehen halt so aus, so ungefähr.",{"text":44750,"start":35458,"end":35463},{"text":46443,"start":35465,"end":35554},"Und weil es halt auch Development dann, glaube ich, schwerfällt dieses von 2D zu 3D oder also das halt einfach, das alles ist anders auf einmal und die machen diesen Sprung nicht oder der Sprung ist auch fällt auch nicht leicht.",{"sentences":46445,"speaker":507,"num_words":46452,"start":35557,"end":35852},[46446,46448,46450],{"text":46447,"start":35557,"end":35590},"Aber ich muss auch sagen, ich will ja auch gar nicht alles so 3D haben.",{"text":46449,"start":35590,"end":35749},"Also wenn ich jetzt an meine, weiß nicht, an meine Adressbuch App denke, ja, dann will ich ja, wenn ich die aufmache, irgendwie mein Adressbuch durchflicken und nicht jeden, der in meinem Adressbuch ist, so als 3D Avatar vor mir sehen und mich dann so durch die Meute wühlen müssen, jetzt irgendwie meine Mutter zu finden, damit ich sie anrufen kann, ja, so.",{"text":46451,"start":35751,"end":35852},"Also es ist ja schon auch legitim, dass dass es diese Art von Apps irgendwie auch in 'nem AR- oder via Umfeld gibt, aber ich bin auch bei euch so, ich glaub, bei ganz viel könnte man noch son bisschen bisschen nicht machen.",121,{"sentences":46454,"speaker":487,"num_words":1137,"start":35852,"end":35856},[46455],{"text":46456,"start":35852,"end":35856},"Ja, ich",{"sentences":46458,"speaker":1137,"num_words":46469,"start":35856,"end":36164},[46459,46461,46463,46465,46467],{"text":46460,"start":35856,"end":35905},"glaube, ich komme immer aus dem, das ist dann vielleicht son bisschen mehr so in die Zukunft gedacht, aus diesem Aspekt.",{"text":46462,"start":35905,"end":35971},"Meine Traumvision von Augmented Reality ist eigentlich, dass wir die echte will, echte Welt, so oder die Aspekte der echten Welt, die wir gewohnt sind, wieder bekommen.",{"text":46464,"start":35974,"end":35994},"Und in der echten Welt ist eigentlich fast nix flach.",{"text":46466,"start":35994,"end":36111},"Also da sind die Sachen flach, die wir kreiert haben, unsere Tablets, unsere unsere Papier und Zettel, aber die ganzen Sachen, die wir anfassen, die sind alle irgendwie halt dreidimensional, die sind haptik, die sind, die vermitteln mir viel mehr Informationen als es irgendwelche flachen Sachen könnten.",{"text":46468,"start":36114,"end":36164},"Deswegen glaube ich, dass irgendwann alles irgendwie dimensional und räumlich wird und unser Gehirn und wie wir denken, kann damit besser umgehen.",127,{"sentences":46471,"speaker":507,"num_words":44746,"start":36167,"end":36194},[46472,46474],{"text":46473,"start":36167,"end":36189},"Der Rollodex kommt wieder als Kontakt App.",{"text":46475,"start":36189,"end":36194},"Ja, vielleicht.",{"sentences":46477,"speaker":1287,"num_words":46487,"start":36197,"end":36586},[46478,46480,46482,46483,46485],{"text":46479,"start":36197,"end":36338},"Es ist ja auch so, dass gerade einen Trend im Designbereich ist ja Fidgetle, also quasi Du hast wieder haptische Buttons, Du kannst wieder Du hast wieder Widerstand, wenn Du was drehst, Du kannst Sachen anfassen und ich hoffe oder könnte mir gut vorstellen, dass da eine dass da eine Korrelation entsteht zwischen AR und diesen physischen Buttons.",{"text":46481,"start":36338,"end":36393},"Also was zum Beispiel mega Bock macht, ich weiß nicht, ob ihr im Europapark zum Beispiel Julbi kennt, die machen so VR Experiences.",{"text":3004,"start":36396,"end":36397},{"text":46484,"start":36397,"end":36554},"Da gehst Du in sone Halle rein und Du hast dann wirklich, Du hast einen physischen Hebel, den kannst Du umlegen, der ist in drei D auch da, das ist voll VR oder da ist einen Modell von 'nem Leuchtturm, was Du hochheben kannst und in VR kannst Du den dann als Taschenlampe benutzen, weil Du gerade 'n Riese bist und alle anderen sind klein.",{"text":46486,"start":36554,"end":36586},"Und diese Kombination ist, finde ich, das Magischste, was aktuell möglich ist.",159,{"sentences":46489,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45008,"start":36589,"end":36689},[46490,46492,46494],{"text":46491,"start":36589,"end":36643},"Und ich hoffe sehr, dass es sich in diese Richtung entwickelt son bisschen, aber ich glaube, ich bin mir nicht sicher, weil wer weiß.",{"text":46493,"start":36643,"end":36685},"Also es ist schon es ist schon auch teuer einfach immer wieder die Hardware sozusagen dann dazu zu verkaufen.",{"text":3004,"start":36688,"end":36689},{"sentences":46496,"speaker":507,"num_words":46507,"start":36692,"end":36942},[46497,46499,46501,46503,46505],{"text":46498,"start":36692,"end":36729},"Aber es kann ja auch einfach in also so Use Case spezifisch schon hilfreich sein.",{"text":46500,"start":36729,"end":36817},"Ja, also ich fand das bei der Meta Quest zum Beispiel ganz cool, wie sie so die Controller, wenn sie in der Gegend rumliegen und und Du siehst die Controller quasi durch die Brille, dann sind die so gehighlightet.",{"text":46502,"start":36821,"end":36884},"Die haben einfach sone minimale Strahlkraft, so damit sie in deinem Raum son bisschen besser auffallen und Du sie finden kannst, das das ja schon ganz cool eigentlich.",{"text":46504,"start":36884,"end":36892},"So, ja.",{"text":46506,"start":36892,"end":36942},"Und wenn man so Sachen einfach ein bisschen mit ein bisschen mehr Liebe irgendwie im Detail macht's ja auch ganz cool.",105,{"sentences":46509,"speaker":507,"num_words":46513,"start":36945,"end":37036},[46510,46512],{"text":46511,"start":36945,"end":37031},"So, habt ihr noch irgendwas, über das ihr gerne gesprochen hättet und euch denkt, wieso hat mich weder der Dave noch der Jan danach gefragt, ich wollte unbedingt über XYZ treten, diese Trottel, ja.",{"text":37039,"start":37035,"end":37036},35,{"sentences":46515,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44519,"start":37041,"end":37052},[46516,46517],{"text":37044,"start":37041,"end":37042},{"text":46518,"start":37046,"end":37052},"Nee, nicht wirklich.",{"sentences":46520,"speaker":507,"num_words":44840,"start":37054,"end":37083},[46521,46522],{"text":1100,"start":37054,"end":37055},{"text":46523,"start":37058,"end":37083},"Dann wären wir fast am Ende, aber Dave, was kommt?",{"sentences":46525,"speaker":487,"num_words":45268,"start":37083,"end":37132},[46526],{"text":46527,"start":37083,"end":37132},"Oh, meine Lieblingskategorie, take of the Dave, was ich mir nicht spontan während der Folge einfallen habe lassen.",{"sentences":46529,"speaker":507,"num_words":45241,"start":37135,"end":37145},[46530],{"text":46531,"start":37135,"end":37145},"Dave, was hast Du dabei?",{"sentences":46533,"speaker":487,"num_words":46542,"start":37145,"end":37264},[46534,46536,46538,46539,46541],{"text":46535,"start":37145,"end":37158},"Hey, ja, voll cool.",{"text":46537,"start":37160,"end":37240},"Ich hatte mir, weil wir jetzt hier über VR und AR und so was alles reden, jetzt kann ich ja endlich mal sagen Beatsaybern, das würde ich verloren, weil Beatsayence echt lustig ist.",{"text":3004,"start":37240,"end":37242},{"text":46540,"start":37242,"end":37259},"Ich mein ich mein ich mein Tiny Fins.",{"text":20485,"start":37263,"end":37264},47,{"sentences":46544,"speaker":487,"num_words":46554,"start":37264,"end":37400},[46545,46547,46549,46551,46553],{"text":46546,"start":37264,"end":37309},"Das das muss ich Wobei, oh, ich hab ich hab auch eine Recherche, oh, ich muss kurz ausschwenken.",{"text":46548,"start":37309,"end":37326},"Der rote Faden würde richtig ersichtlich.",{"text":46550,"start":37326,"end":37336},"Ja, der rote Faden.",{"text":46552,"start":37340,"end":37395},"Und zwar ich ich war ich war natürlich auch auf euer Website von und mein Lieblingsding war einfach Dancing Sterni.",{"text":31281,"start":37399,"end":37400},49,{"sentences":46556,"speaker":1137,"num_words":505,"start":37402,"end":37422},[46557],{"text":46558,"start":37402,"end":37422},"Da ist auch eine kurze Anekdote dazu, weil",{"sentences":46560,"speaker":507,"num_words":44611,"start":37422,"end":37453},[46561],{"text":46562,"start":37422,"end":37453},"Manuel, ihr müsst erst erstellen, was das ist für alle da draußen.",{"sentences":46564,"speaker":1137,"num_words":46567,"start":37453,"end":37522},[46565],{"text":46566,"start":37453,"end":37522},"Okay, also ihr STERNi ist das Markenzeichen, das Maskottchen von Sternburg, der Biermarke, ist vor allem so im westlichen Raum Leipzig und so bekannt.",24,{"sentences":46569,"speaker":487,"num_words":44503,"start":37522,"end":37545},[46570],{"text":46571,"start":37522,"end":37545},"Oh, in Berlin, in Berlin Riedries nur.",{"sentences":46573,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44925,"start":37545,"end":37688},[46574,46576,46578,46580],{"text":46575,"start":37545,"end":37551},"Genau, genau.",{"text":46577,"start":37553,"end":37621},"Hatten auch zu denen gepitcht und wir haben eine Sachen wollt mitgebracht und so was am Ende, wollten die davon nix, haben uns aber 'n kleines Präsent mitgegeben.",{"text":46579,"start":37621,"end":37681},"Dann sind wir wir sind im Auto angefahren, am Ende mit acht Kästen Sternburg zurückgefahren und das war auch einfach, das war schön.",{"text":46581,"start":37681,"end":37688},"Da hat",{"sentences":46583,"speaker":487,"num_words":45241,"start":37688,"end":37702},[46584],{"text":46585,"start":37688,"end":37702},"sich die Arbeit gelohnt, ne?",{"sentences":46587,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44988,"start":37702,"end":37840},[46588,46590],{"text":46589,"start":37702,"end":37823},"Ja, auf jeden Fall, nee, da sind wir extra hochgefahren, haben dann noch eine kleine Tour durch die Fabriken gekriegt und so, haben mit dem Marketingdirektor gesprochen und haben dann aber herausgefunden, dass Sternburg kein also ein Ding von denen ist, dass die kein Geld für Marketing ausgeben.",{"text":46591,"start":37826,"end":37840},"Und weil die sind so Und",{"sentences":46593,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44503,"start":37840,"end":37856},[46594],{"text":46595,"start":37840,"end":37856},"das hat sie euch neu vorher gesagt.",{"sentences":46597,"speaker":487,"num_words":1137,"start":37856,"end":37865},[46598,46599],{"text":37862,"start":37856,"end":37859},{"text":12546,"start":37864,"end":37865},{"sentences":46601,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44604,"start":37868,"end":37907},[46602],{"text":46603,"start":37868,"end":37907},"Weil die sind so ein bisschen ja punkig würde ich fast sagen, so von ihrer Art.",{"sentences":46605,"speaker":487,"num_words":1287,"start":37910,"end":37916},[46606],{"text":46607,"start":37910,"end":37916},"Ach krass, ja.",{"sentences":46609,"speaker":507,"num_words":44835,"start":37918,"end":37955},[46610,46611],{"text":46030,"start":37918,"end":37922},{"text":46612,"start":37922,"end":37955},"Wieso hat eine Firma, die kein Geld für Marketing ausgibt, 'n Marketing Director?",{"sentences":46614,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45241,"start":37958,"end":37968},[46615],{"text":46616,"start":37958,"end":37968},"Das ist eine gute Frage.",{"sentences":46618,"speaker":487,"num_words":505,"start":37968,"end":37992},[46619,46621],{"text":46620,"start":37968,"end":37979},"Der sagt immer, nein.",{"text":46622,"start":37982,"end":37992},"Machen wir nicht nein.",{"sentences":46624,"speaker":1287,"num_words":46542,"start":37994,"end":38115},[46625],{"text":46626,"start":37994,"end":38115},"Genau und dann hat mir son paar Sachen vorbereitet und ein Prototyp war quasi, dass so die Sternburgdose, dass die erkannt wird vom Handy und das dann quasi das Maskottchen, was son kleiner, fast schon son Stoffseestern mit 'nem Kronkorken aufm Rücken son bisschen updänced, genau ja.",{"sentences":46628,"speaker":487,"num_words":45008,"start":38118,"end":38227},[46629,46631,46633,46634,46636],{"text":46630,"start":38118,"end":38133},"Sehr sympathisch fand ich sehr cool.",{"text":46632,"start":38133,"end":38161},"Es war keine Werbung für Sternburg, aber trinkt jetzt alle in Sternburg.",{"text":3004,"start":38161,"end":38165},{"text":46635,"start":38167,"end":38172},"Nee genau.",{"text":46637,"start":38175,"end":38227},"Und zwar was ich wirklich cool fand und zwar weil Du ja auch Jan bisschen so über diese Zugänglichkeit von Entwicklung angesprochen hast.",{"sentences":46639,"speaker":487,"num_words":45488,"start":38229,"end":38561},[46640,46642,46644,46646,46648],{"text":46641,"start":38229,"end":38413},"Da muss ich sagen, ich ich ich komm ja eigentlich ausm Bereich der Bioinformatik und deswegen war ja dieser Bereich Extended Reality war für mich so was ganz neu, aber ich dachte mir so, ich bin jemand, hey, ich bin supersprunghaft, ich hab da Bock drauf, das sieht cool aus, ich mach da jetzt mal 'n Projekt Und ich war wirklich erstaunt, wie leicht es einem gemacht wurde und das war zweitausendzweiundzwanzig, okay, ist nicht mehr super, also.",{"text":46643,"start":38413,"end":38453},"Aber schon, also hat sich bis heute wahrscheinlich viel getan und wie wie zugänglich und einfach das alles war.",{"text":46645,"start":38453,"end":38475},"Und deswegen würd ich zwei Dinge für nämlich empfehlen.",{"text":46647,"start":38475,"end":38521},"Und einmal war's dieses AR Foundation, wovon wir geredet haben, was halt natürlich diese ganze Abstraktionsschicht dann übernimmt, ne.",{"text":46649,"start":38521,"end":38561},"Und dann auch so dieses und auch diese Oklusionen, die Du ja, glaub ich, genannt hast.",{"sentences":46651,"speaker":487,"num_words":44611,"start":38563,"end":38595},[46652],{"text":46653,"start":38563,"end":38595},"Genau, dass das auch schon mit drin Und dieses XR Interaction Toolkit.",{"sentences":46655,"speaker":507,"num_words":487,"start":38599,"end":38600},[46656],{"text":3454,"start":38599,"end":38600},{"sentences":46658,"speaker":487,"num_words":45182,"start":38600,"end":38818},[46659,46661,46662,46664,46666],{"text":46660,"start":38600,"end":38612},"Das gibt's ja auch noch.",{"text":3004,"start":38612,"end":38614},{"text":46663,"start":38614,"end":38686},"Genau, wo wo Du dann halt einfach Dinge anfassen kannst, bewegen und so interagieren mit statischen Objekten, wie zum Beispiel irgendwie so ganze Leiter hochklettern und so was alles.",{"text":46665,"start":38686,"end":38813},"Das wird da alles und warum ich da in dem Bereich jetzt auch Unity empfehlen würde, weil also der Einstieg war wirklich sehr, sehr einfach und ich hab auch sehr lange kein Gerät gebraucht, was halt irgendwie Virtual Reality oder Augmented Reality kann, weil dieser dieser Playmode, der wir auch hier paarmal ja angeschnitten.",{"text":3004,"start":38817,"end":38818},{"sentences":46668,"speaker":487,"num_words":45350,"start":38820,"end":38959},[46669,46671,46673,46675],{"text":46670,"start":38820,"end":38885},"Der der der ich find, der reicht so gut für die Entwicklung aus, dass man da sich son Überblick schaffen kann, ah okay, das funktioniert das das nicht und so.",{"text":46672,"start":38885,"end":38899},"Das sieht alles so und so aus.",{"text":46674,"start":38901,"end":38934},"Und dann portierst Du's einfach auf dein Gerät und dann funktioniert's eigentlich auch recht gut.",{"text":46676,"start":38934,"end":38959},"Natürlich hier und da hast Du aber Schnittstellen, die nicht so",{"sentences":46678,"speaker":507,"num_words":1137,"start":38959,"end":38965},[46679],{"text":46680,"start":38959,"end":38965},"optimal sind.",{"sentences":46682,"speaker":487,"num_words":46693,"start":38965,"end":39205},[46683,46685,46687,46689,46691],{"text":46684,"start":38965,"end":39004},"Aber deswegen meine Empfehlung für alle, die ja interessiert sind und irgendwie mal was Neues entdecken wollen.",{"text":46686,"start":39004,"end":39070},"Einfach mal machen, runterladen, die zwei Toolkits und ich glaub, mittlerweile ist der Einstieg auch noch viel angenehmer geworden als noch von vor zwei Jahren.",{"text":46688,"start":39072,"end":39082},"Die Community ist auch superlieb.",{"text":46690,"start":39082,"end":39100},"Ich war da in Foren unterwegs.",{"text":46692,"start":39103,"end":39205},"Da waren immer so zehn Leute aktiv und dann irgendwie hat man sich gegenseitig ausgeholfen, weil irgendwas nicht kompatibel war mit irgend 'ner bestimmten Version und ja, also wie gesagt, alle, die interessiert sind, einfach mal machen, ist sehr cool, macht sehr viel Spaß.",97,{"sentences":46695,"speaker":507,"num_words":44531,"start":39208,"end":39221},[46696,46697],{"text":1100,"start":39208,"end":39209},{"text":46698,"start":39212,"end":39221},"Robin, was hast Du dabei?",{"sentences":46700,"speaker":1287,"num_words":46067,"start":39223,"end":39338},[46701,46703,46705],{"text":46702,"start":39223,"end":39294},"Genau, ich hab, wir hatten's ja vorhin schon mal von Nintendo und von dem Art Style von Nintendo, das über Immersion und wir sind bei Dietrich auch riesen Nintendo Fans.",{"text":46704,"start":39297,"end":39335},"Also tatsächlich war, wenn ich die erste Anschaffung im in unserem Office war eine Switch.",{"text":1139,"start":39335,"end":39338},{"sentences":46707,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1137,"start":39340,"end":39344},[46708,46709],{"text":1146,"start":39340,"end":39341},{"text":1609,"start":39341,"end":39344},{"sentences":46711,"speaker":487,"num_words":44519,"start":39347,"end":39359},[46712,46714],{"text":46713,"start":39347,"end":39355},"Von dem Arbeitslaptop.",{"text":3004,"start":39358,"end":39359},{"sentences":46716,"speaker":1287,"num_words":46727,"start":39361,"end":39829},[46717,46719,46721,46723,46725],{"text":46718,"start":39361,"end":39370},"Den hatte man schon.",{"text":46720,"start":39372,"end":39512},"Und genau, nee und da haben wir hat sich relativ schnell etabliert, dass wir da ist, kann man auch die Brücke zur Sternburg schlagen, aber wir machen ganz gerne mal so so Abende, wo wir Mario Kart spielen, sehr, sehr exzessiv und das ist quasi fast schon so wie in sonem Firmensport geworden, mal mit, mal ohne Alkohol dabei.",{"text":46722,"start":39515,"end":39564},"Und genau, bei Mario Kart, das ist so verrückt, weil da sind bestimmt schon, weiß ich nicht, zweihundert Spielstunden reingeflossen.",{"text":46724,"start":39564,"end":39764},"Ich werd jetzt auch gar keine Zahl festlegen in den letzten fünf Und man lernt immer wieder neue Sachen und eine Sache, die mich die ganze Zeit aufgeregt hat, ist, dass man, wenn man springt, wenn man über Hobel fährt sozusagen, dann kann man Tricks machen und je nachdem, in welche Richtung man in welche Richtung man den Joystick bewegt, macht man dann 'n Vorwärtsauto, 'n Rückwärtssalto oder macht wie son top Showwert nach links oder nach rechts.",{"text":46726,"start":39764,"end":39829},"Und ich dachte die ganze Zeit, das bringt einfach gar nichts, das kann man random machen, aber es beeinflusst tatsächlich in wie steil der Drift danach geht.",188,{"sentences":46729,"speaker":1287,"num_words":46248,"start":39829,"end":40003},[46730,46732],{"text":46731,"start":39829,"end":39965},"Also wenn man quasi einen Sprung einen Trick nach rechts macht und danach in einen Rechtsdrift geht, dann kann ist der schärfer möglich oder andersrum, wenn Du einen Sprung nach links machst und dann in einen Rechtsdrift gehst, dann ist der Drift weiter als der normale Drift und so kannst Du dann son bisschen streckenmäßig noch was dazulernen.",{"text":46733,"start":39968,"end":40003},"Also das war jetzt meine mein Pick of the day, das fand ich irgendwie interessant.",{"sentences":46735,"speaker":487,"num_words":44840,"start":40005,"end":40036},[46736,46738,46739],{"text":46737,"start":40005,"end":40029},"So krass, sone versteckte Mechanik, aber oh so mächtig.",{"text":3004,"start":40032,"end":40033},{"text":31281,"start":40033,"end":40036},{"sentences":46741,"speaker":507,"num_words":45676,"start":40038,"end":40087},[46742,46744,46746,46747,46749],{"text":46743,"start":40038,"end":40045},"Richtig nice.",{"text":46745,"start":40049,"end":40055},"Abgefahren, abgefahren.",{"text":1100,"start":40058,"end":40059},{"text":46748,"start":40061,"end":40083},"Mario Kart, Easy to learn hard to master.",{"text":7667,"start":40086,"end":40087},{"sentences":46751,"speaker":507,"num_words":44611,"start":40091,"end":40119},[46752],{"text":46753,"start":40091,"end":40119},"Und die haben haben die nicht glaube ich auch das Rubberbanding erfunden.",{"sentences":46755,"speaker":487,"num_words":45241,"start":40122,"end":40133},[46756],{"text":46757,"start":40122,"end":40133},"Ja, ich glaube auch nicht.",{"sentences":46759,"speaker":507,"num_words":44746,"start":40133,"end":40157},[46760],{"text":46761,"start":40133,"end":40157},"Hat Nintendo nicht 'n Patent da drauf oder so?",{"sentences":46763,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45241,"start":40157,"end":40169},[46764],{"text":46765,"start":40157,"end":40169},"Ah, das wusste ich nicht.",{"sentences":46767,"speaker":487,"num_words":44469,"start":40169,"end":40211},[46768,46770],{"text":46769,"start":40169,"end":40179},"Na, glaube ich nicht.",{"text":46771,"start":40179,"end":40211},"Ich glaube so was ich nieed for Speed oder so macht das auch.",{"sentences":46773,"speaker":507,"num_words":44453,"start":40213,"end":40292},[46774,46776,46778,46780],{"text":46775,"start":40213,"end":40253},"Ja gut, das ist ja auch schon, ich meine das bestimmt schon ausgelaufen oder sowas bei den.",{"text":46777,"start":40253,"end":40284},"Ich glaube, die haben die haben damals son Paper darüber geschrieben so.",{"text":46779,"start":40284,"end":40289},"Ach krass.",{"text":3004,"start":40291,"end":40292},{"sentences":46782,"speaker":1287,"num_words":45230,"start":40292,"end":40363},[46783,46785,46787],{"text":46784,"start":40292,"end":40333},"Also die machen's auf jeden Fall, dass das Game, wo ich sage, es ist am auffälligsten.",{"text":46786,"start":40333,"end":40354},"Also Riverbanding ist das 'n Begriff oder so?",{"text":46788,"start":40357,"end":40363},"Ja für uns",{"sentences":46790,"speaker":507,"num_words":44445,"start":40363,"end":40387},[46791],{"text":46792,"start":40363,"end":40387},"ja wahrscheinlich schon, aber Du kannst es auch gerne erklären.",{"sentences":46794,"speaker":1287,"num_words":46800,"start":40390,"end":40525},[46795,46797,46799],{"text":46796,"start":40390,"end":40425},"Also das heißt eigentlich im Prinzip, dass sich die Bots an den ersten Platz anpassen.",{"text":46798,"start":40425,"end":40523},"Also quasi, dass Du, wenn der erste Platz richtig weit vorne ist, dann fahren die Bots schneller, daran anzuschließen und das ist natürlich zum Leid von allen, die schlechter fahren als der erste Platz, weil dann natürlich die Bots anstrengender sind.",{"text":1428,"start":40523,"end":40525},57,{"sentences":46802,"speaker":507,"num_words":44762,"start":40525,"end":40676},[46803],{"text":46804,"start":40525,"end":40676},"auch andersrum, das ist ja auch in den in der Itemvergabe zum Beispiel, wenn Du weiter hinten bist, kriegst Du halt coolere Items, damit Du eine Chance hast, es wieder aufzuholen, weil Rubberbanding ja zum einen das Feld vorne zusammenhalten soll, aber auch verhindern soll das hinten zu viele Ausreißer, deswegen ja so Rubberband, weil das so alle",{"sentences":46806,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45241,"start":40679,"end":40692},[46807,46808],{"text":40683,"start":40679,"end":40680},{"text":46809,"start":40680,"end":40692},"Oh, da fand ich",{"sentences":46811,"speaker":487,"num_words":45268,"start":40692,"end":40735},[46812,46814],{"text":46813,"start":40692,"end":40702},"auch super interessante Mechanik.",{"text":46815,"start":40702,"end":40735},"Da hab ich letztens gesehen, jemand hat sich absichtlich auf den letzten Platz gebracht,",{"sentences":46817,"speaker":507,"num_words":505,"start":40739,"end":40761},[46818],{"text":46819,"start":40739,"end":40761},"hat dann glaube ich irgendwie Blauen Panzer geholt.",{"sentences":46821,"speaker":487,"num_words":45008,"start":40761,"end":40872},[46822,46824,46826,46828,46829],{"text":46823,"start":40761,"end":40769},"Nein, nein, nein.",{"text":46825,"start":40772,"end":40845},"Und hatte dann Kugel Willi und hat dann einfach aber das ganze Zeit gehalten, bis er Erster war und halt quasi dann, falls 'n blauer Panzer kommt, einfach das aktiviert.",{"text":46827,"start":40845,"end":40857},"Das fand ich so schlau.",{"text":3004,"start":40857,"end":40860},{"text":46830,"start":40860,"end":40872},"Da war er so schlau.",{"sentences":46832,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44440,"start":40874,"end":40940},[46833,46835],{"text":46834,"start":40874,"end":40923},"Das war eine Zeit lang war das wohl online die beste Strategie, sogar am Anfang zu bremsen und hinten zu starten.",{"text":46836,"start":40923,"end":40940},"Es wurd vor 'n paar Monaten gepatcht.",{"sentences":46838,"speaker":487,"num_words":505,"start":40940,"end":40961},[46839],{"text":46840,"start":40940,"end":40961},"Ah, okay, ich wollt sagen, ja, sehr cheep.",{"sentences":46842,"speaker":507,"num_words":46513,"start":40961,"end":41050},[46843,46844,46845,46847,46848],{"text":3004,"start":40961,"end":40964},{"text":40970,"start":40967,"end":40968},{"text":46846,"start":40972,"end":40976},"Verrückt Kart.",{"text":3004,"start":40976,"end":40979},{"text":46849,"start":40982,"end":41050},"Mein, ich wollte irgendwas zu VR irgendwie mitbringen als Pick of the day und dann dachte ich irgendwie ist das 'n bisschen, weiß nicht, das ist son son bisschen elitär.",{"sentences":46851,"speaker":507,"num_words":45230,"start":41053,"end":41126},[46852],{"text":46853,"start":41053,"end":41126},"Das kann jetzt vielleicht nicht jeder irgendwie da draußen nachvollziehen, Aber ich habe letzte Woche Submerged geguckt, diesen Kurzfilm, den Apple veröffentlicht hat für die Mission Pro.",{"sentences":46855,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45241,"start":41126,"end":41140},[46856],{"text":46857,"start":41126,"end":41140},"Ich muss auch noch gucken.",{"sentences":46859,"speaker":507,"num_words":46869,"start":41143,"end":41492},[46860,46862,46863,46865,46867],{"text":46861,"start":41143,"end":41203},"Der geht so, ich glaube, eine Viertelstunde oder so ist das, das spielt in 'nem U-Boot und das ist super interessant, so, ja.",{"text":7667,"start":41203,"end":41206},{"text":46864,"start":41208,"end":41331},"Weil es natürlich, also die ersten Immersive Filme, die Apple gemacht hat, waren ja alle so ein riesen Open Space oder diese Tierducos in der Savanne oder irgendwie in den Bergen oben und bla, das hat dir so ein Gefühl von Größe gegeben und jetzt ist das erste Mal so andersrum.",{"text":46866,"start":41334,"end":41352},"Es gibt ja so ein Gefühl von Enge.",{"text":46868,"start":41352,"end":41492},"Da hast Du irgendwie diese Vision Pro und auf einmal bist Du in so 'nem U-Boot, was nur so zwei, drei Meter dich rum ist und Du hörst irgendwie Geräusche von hinter dir und von vor dir und Du bist dann die ganze Zeit am Umgucken und sowas, glaube ich, auch für diejenigen, die so Filme machen, super schwierig.",142,{"sentences":46871,"speaker":507,"num_words":46542,"start":41492,"end":41598},[46872],{"text":46873,"start":41492,"end":41598},"Wir haben vorhin darüber gesprochen, so beim Debugging, Du musst auf einmal auf alles achten, ich glaub beim Filmemachen auch so und nicht nur musst Du auf alles achten, dass alles gut aussieht, sondern musst auch eigentlich überall son bisschen was was bieten, was sich lohnt anzugucken.",{"sentences":46875,"speaker":1287,"num_words":1137,"start":41601,"end":41606},[46876],{"text":46877,"start":41601,"end":41606},"So, ja,",{"sentences":46879,"speaker":507,"num_words":2241,"start":41606,"end":41977},[46880,46882,46883,46885,46887],{"text":46881,"start":41606,"end":41727},"wenn Du son son Film machst und das merkt man ja schon ganz gut, also egal in welche kleine Ecke vorm Boot Du guckst, irgendwo flickert son Licht oder es läuft sone sone Maus oder sone Kakerlake irgendwie durchs Bild oder so ist immer so son bisschen Move drin.",{"text":3454,"start":41727,"end":41730},{"text":46884,"start":41730,"end":41757},"Und das war war super spannend, weil's halt beides so irgendwie schafften.",{"text":46886,"start":41757,"end":41916},"Es gibt so Szenen, die sind im Boot, wo Du dich so sehr klaustrophobisch und son bisschen horrormäßig fühlst, wenn da komische Geräusche in langen, leeren Tunneln irgendwie sind und es gibt so Aufnahmen, Szenen, wo Du so außerhalb vom U-Boot quasi das Boot fährt so an dir vorbei, das ist so der Opener, ja, das spoilert man jetzt, glaube ich, nicht so viel.",{"text":46888,"start":41916,"end":41977},"Es hat son bisschen was, wie wenn ihr mal Hand for Rack of Oktober geguckt habt, ja, dieses klassische U-Boot-Film schon Connery.",{"sentences":46890,"speaker":507,"num_words":44599,"start":41981,"end":42161},[46891,46893,46895],{"text":46892,"start":41981,"end":42100},"Der Film fängt an, also Sub Merch fängt an, Du bist so im Meer, die Kamera ist im Meer, dich rum nur blau und auf einmal fährt so fünf Meter über dir halt so dieses Riesen-U-Boot drüber, ja, mit so Immersive Sound, das ist schon richtig richtig abgefallen.",{"text":46894,"start":42103,"end":42157},"Also ich weiß nicht, ob ich zwei Stunden mir son richtig langen Spielfilm auf 'ner Vision Pro angucken könnte, allein so ergonomisch.",{"text":3004,"start":42160,"end":42161},{"sentences":46897,"speaker":487,"num_words":45241,"start":42161,"end":42174},[46898],{"text":46899,"start":42161,"end":42174},"Wie lange ist jetzt Submerge?",{"sentences":46901,"speaker":507,"num_words":1137,"start":42178,"end":42183},[46902],{"text":46903,"start":42178,"end":42183},"Fünfzehn Minuten.",{"sentences":46905,"speaker":487,"num_words":1287,"start":42183,"end":42191},[46906],{"text":46907,"start":42183,"end":42191},"Fünfzehn Minuten, okay.",{"sentences":46909,"speaker":507,"num_words":46507,"start":42191,"end":42445},[46910,46912,46914],{"text":46911,"start":42191,"end":42228},"Aber die fünfzehn Minuten zeigen halt sehr gut auf, wohin dieses Medium irgendwie gehen könnte, ja.",{"text":46913,"start":42231,"end":42388},"Und es gibt, kann ich mit dazu empfehlen, so als Side Pick, gibt auch son Making of und Behind the Scenes, wo sagt, sag ich, was für was für 'n Kamera Rick brauchst Du halt, irgendwie so Szenen filmen zu können, wie musst Du vielleicht deine Kulisse irgendwie anders aufbauen, Platz und mehr Winkel irgendwie zu ermöglichen und sowas, alles ist auch mega cool.",{"text":46915,"start":42388,"end":42445},"Also a den Film erstmal gucken und danach sich die Magic 'n bisschen versauen und das Making of irgendwie gucken, aber auch beides super interessant.",{"sentences":46917,"speaker":1287,"num_words":46924,"start":42445,"end":42833},[46918,46920,46922],{"text":46919,"start":42445,"end":42673},"Ja, was mir dazu noch einfällt ist, ist natürlich gerade für solche Sachen ist ja die, sind ja VR Brillen noch viel krasser, aber wenn Du schon son bisschen klaustrophobisch veranlagt bist und würden die Wände immer näher kommen ja physisch, das ist natürlich dann auch 'n viel intensiveres Erlebnis, gerade dann noch, da sind wir auch wieder bei Musik ist auch natürlich wichtig für die Immersion und gerade die Film Pro hat relativ gute Lautsprecher, gerade für die winzige Größe und tatsächlich fühlt sich dann auch das so an, als würde es aus dem Raum kommen.",{"text":46921,"start":42675,"end":42738},"Was son Riesending ist bei dreihundertsechzig Grad Videos oder bei VR Filmenmaking ist natürlich auch, Du hast jetzt nicht direkt Schnitte, also und verschiedene Kameraperspektiven.",{"text":46923,"start":42741,"end":42833},"Also wenn Du die Aufmerksamkeit von dem, der guckst, der guckt auf auf einen bestimmten Gegenstand blenden willst, dann kannst Du nicht einfach cut und nah rangehen, sondern Du musst es dann irgendwie an, also Du könntest schon, aber",161,{"sentences":46926,"speaker":507,"num_words":44555,"start":42835,"end":42924},[46927],{"text":46928,"start":42835,"end":42924},"Also das machen sie auch, aber nur nur ganz ganz selten und halt für so ganz bewusste Effekte, wo Du auf einmal, Du siehst so zwei Leute irgendwie in der in der Offiziersmesse sitzen, wie sie so reden.",{"sentences":46930,"speaker":487,"num_words":44519,"start":42924,"end":42937},[46931],{"text":46932,"start":42924,"end":42937},"Zu viele Spoiler schon.",{"sentences":46934,"speaker":507,"num_words":1287,"start":42937,"end":42945},[46935],{"text":46823,"start":42937,"end":42945},{"sentences":46937,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44503,"start":42945,"end":42961},[46938,46940],{"text":46939,"start":42945,"end":42951},"Leute reden.",{"text":46941,"start":42951,"end":42961},"Und auf einmal ist bist",{"sentences":46943,"speaker":507,"num_words":45198,"start":42961,"end":43067},[46944,46946,46948,46950],{"text":46945,"start":42961,"end":43023},"Du halt so zehn Zentimeter an dem Face von dem so dran, weil er halt gerade was super wichtiges und eindringliches irgendwie so sagt, ja.",{"text":46947,"start":43023,"end":43030},"Mut stehen.",{"text":46949,"start":43030,"end":43045},"Dafür kannst Du es halt machen.",{"text":46951,"start":43047,"end":43067},"Das spoiler ich jetzt nicht, muss ich selber gucken.",{"sentences":46953,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1287,"start":43069,"end":43077},[46954],{"text":46955,"start":43069,"end":43077},"Ja, finde ich.",{"sentences":46957,"speaker":487,"num_words":1287,"start":43077,"end":43085},[46958],{"text":46959,"start":43077,"end":43085},"Dafür kannst Du",{"sentences":46961,"speaker":507,"num_words":46968,"start":43085,"end":43216},[46962,46964,46965,46966,46967],{"text":46963,"start":43085,"end":43202},"es halt machen, aber während dem normalen Storytelling, da wird halt viel mehr so mit mit Schwenks und mit so Focus Shift und sowas gearbeitet und so deine Aufmerksamkeit zu lenken und nicht mit drei verschiedenen Kamerawinkeln, wo Du die ganze Zeit so hin und her hüpfst.",{"text":3454,"start":43206,"end":43207},{"text":3454,"start":43207,"end":43209},{"text":3004,"start":43209,"end":43212},{"text":43219,"start":43215,"end":43216},51,{"sentences":46970,"speaker":507,"num_words":45241,"start":43222,"end":43233},[46971],{"text":46972,"start":43222,"end":43233},"Sabine, was hast Du dabei?",{"sentences":46974,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44462,"start":43233,"end":43302},[46975,46976,46978,46980,46981],{"text":45494,"start":43233,"end":43238},{"text":46977,"start":43238,"end":43289},"Was ich dabei hab, ist auf jeden Fall für alle Leute, die sagen, oh, normale Drogen, die sind nicht hart genug für mich.",{"text":46979,"start":43289,"end":43294},"Oh Gott.",{"text":43299,"start":43294,"end":43298},{"text":3004,"start":43301,"end":43302},{"sentences":46983,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44840,"start":43302,"end":43329},[46984],{"text":46985,"start":43302,"end":43329},"Also vor allem jetzt am Montag kam die neue Expansion raus.",{"sentences":46987,"speaker":487,"num_words":1137,"start":43329,"end":43335},[46988],{"text":46989,"start":43329,"end":43335},"Klar, ist",{"sentences":46991,"speaker":507,"num_words":44503,"start":43335,"end":43358},[46992,46994],{"text":46993,"start":43335,"end":43352},"die Folge auch als schon Splang.",{"text":43360,"start":43357,"end":43358},{"sentences":46996,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1137,"start":43362,"end":43367},[46997],{"text":46998,"start":43362,"end":43367},"Schon wieder.",{"sentences":47000,"speaker":507,"num_words":44519,"start":43369,"end":43381},[47001],{"text":47002,"start":43369,"end":43381},"Factorio Space Age, sorry.",{"sentences":47004,"speaker":1137,"num_words":47014,"start":43381,"end":43627},[47005,47007,47009,47011,47013],{"text":47006,"start":43381,"end":43418},"Also nee, der Richtigmachkeitsfaktor ist bei Factorio zumindest bei mir persönlich extrem groß.",{"text":47008,"start":43418,"end":43564},"Das ist schon schon krass, weil Du hast immer noch das nächste, was Du optimieren kannst und dann hast Du das optimiert und dann sagst, ach nee, ich kann dir aber auch noch das optimieren und es geht unendlich weiter und jetzt mit der neuen Expansion ist es nicht nur auf einen Planeten, sondern man hat jetzt auch noch mehr Planeten, den man optimieren kann.",{"text":47010,"start":43566,"end":43606},"Ja, es ist schwer, das alles irgendwie dann auch noch zu balancen mit Arbeit und Freundin und so.",{"text":47012,"start":43608,"end":43623},"Einfach nicht machen, nicht arbeiten, keine Freundin.",{"text":3004,"start":43623,"end":43627},104,{"sentences":47016,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1137,"start":43631,"end":43637},[47017],{"text":47018,"start":43631,"end":43637},"Linefake, Lifefake.",{"sentences":47020,"speaker":507,"num_words":45241,"start":43641,"end":43654},[47021,47022],{"text":3004,"start":43641,"end":43642},{"text":47023,"start":43642,"end":43654},"Linefake, nicht arbeiten gehen.",{"sentences":47025,"speaker":487,"num_words":44445,"start":43654,"end":43678},[47026,47028,47030],{"text":47027,"start":43654,"end":43666},"Nicht arbeiten und keine Freundin.",{"text":47029,"start":43666,"end":43674},"Pick of the day.",{"text":43679,"start":43674,"end":43678},{"sentences":47032,"speaker":507,"num_words":45745,"start":43678,"end":43732},[47033,47035,47037],{"text":47034,"start":43678,"end":43686},"Bitte nicht.",{"text":47036,"start":43688,"end":43711},"Bitte nicht, ich seh schon die die Mails reinkommen.",{"text":47038,"start":43714,"end":43732},"Ja, hast Du's, seit wann ist das draußen?",{"sentences":47040,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45092,"start":43732,"end":43829},[47041,47043,47045],{"text":47042,"start":43732,"end":43746},"Seit Montag, also die Expansion.",{"text":47044,"start":43746,"end":43776},"Factorio gibt's natürlich schon seit Jahren, aber das war jetzt die große neue Expansion.",{"text":47046,"start":43776,"end":43829},"Sie hab jahrelang daran gearbeitet und genau, also ich hab jetzt erst zweihundert Stunden in Factorio, also das sind noch kleine",{"sentences":47048,"speaker":487,"num_words":1287,"start":43831,"end":43841},[47049],{"text":47050,"start":43831,"end":43841},"Zeit Releases DLCs.",{"sentences":47052,"speaker":1137,"num_words":45241,"start":43845,"end":43857},[47053],{"text":47054,"start":43845,"end":43857},"Nein, nein, nein, das wär",{"sentences":47056,"speaker":507,"num_words":1137,"start":43857,"end":43864},[47057],{"text":47058,"start":43857,"end":43864},"kein Witz.",{"sentences":47060,"speaker":1137,"num_words":44440,"start":43868,"end":43935},[47061],{"text":47062,"start":43868,"end":43935},"Ja, aber Du merkst einfach, die haben da so viel Zeit reingesteckt, das ist alles so gut durchdacht, also ich freu mich richtig, da noch weiter zu explorieren.",{"sentences":47064,"speaker":507,"num_words":44682,"start":43939,"end":43993},[47065],{"text":47066,"start":43939,"end":43993},"Ich glaube, das ist auch son Spiel, was einfach unbegrenzt lange laufen kann eigentlich, weil Du immer mehr Mechanik einfach dazu bauen kannst.",{"sentences":47068,"speaker":1137,"num_words":1137,"start":43993,"end":43998},[47069],{"text":44750,"start":43993,"end":43998},{"sentences":47071,"speaker":507,"num_words":44644,"start":44000,"end":44101},[47072,47074,47076,47078,47079],{"text":47073,"start":44000,"end":44024},"Cool und auch übrigens eine coole Modszene ja auch hat.",{"text":47075,"start":44024,"end":44060},"Also wer einfach selber bisschen was rumschrauben will da in Factorio, ist auch ganz nice.",{"text":47077,"start":44062,"end":44081},"Ja, wunderbar, dann war's das, sind wir durch.",{"text":44087,"start":44081,"end":44085},{"text":47080,"start":44085,"end":44101},"Letzte Frage, letztes Kommentar irgendwas.",{"sentences":47082,"speaker":487,"num_words":44453,"start":44101,"end":44180},[47083,47085,47087,47089],{"text":47084,"start":44101,"end":44129},"Nein, ich möchte sagen vielen Dank, dass ihr hier wart.",{"text":47086,"start":44129,"end":44142},"Das war sehr sehr cool.",{"text":47088,"start":44142,"end":44160},"Sehr coole Folge, hat sehr viel Spaß gemacht.",{"text":47090,"start":44160,"end":44180},"Ich glaub, Jan schließt sich da einfach mit an.",{"sentences":47092,"speaker":507,"num_words":45241,"start":44182,"end":44193},[47093],{"text":47094,"start":44182,"end":44193},"Ich hab auch Spaß gehabt.",{"sentences":47096,"speaker":1287,"num_words":44503,"start":44193,"end":44214},[47097],{"text":47098,"start":44193,"end":44214},"Ja, danke, dass wir hier sein durften.",{"sentences":47100,"speaker":487,"num_words":44790,"start":44214,"end":44272},[47101,47103,47104,47106,47108],{"text":47102,"start":44214,"end":44237},"Ich hoffe alle Zuhörennen hatten sehr viel Spaß dabei.",{"text":44241,"start":44237,"end":44239},{"text":47105,"start":44243,"end":44256},"Und dann wär's das von uns.",{"text":47107,"start":44256,"end":44268},"Vielen Dank fürs 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Also ich glaub es ist wirklich, es ist ein Hardware Problem. Also wenn man sich anguckt, was Meta neben Space gerade macht mit den Raibants oder mit dem Orion, wo wir ja auch vor zwei, drei Wochen hier im Podcast Orion. Orion. Wir haben uns drauf Andy Orion zu sagen. Aber sogar diese, die Orion sieht immer noch son bisschen dumm aus. Also, ja Gut, so, krass. Weil sie kommt jetzt auch aus dem Prototyp Labor und hat's glaube ich nicht dafür gemacht, irgendwie bei Ray Ben im Laden zu sitzen so. Nein, nein, aber das ist der Prototyp, den sie noch nicht verkaufen könnten, der würde irgendwie zehntausend Euro kosten, das heißt, das ist aber das Beste, was gerade geht und die sieht auch immer noch bisschen klunky aus. Die sind kleine D-Brille im Kino. Ja, daran, genau, da hab ich auch gedacht, weil ich auch son bisschen die Gläser hatte. Ja, ja, ja. So und also, ich weiß nicht, ob ich damit rausgehen würde. Und das ist halt dann schon, also, ich glaub, das zeigt son bisschen, wie weit wir dann doch noch davon leider entfernt sind. 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