[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":57606},["ShallowReactive",2],{"/podcast/deep-dive-195-embedded-development-jakob-czekansky":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":182,"speakerCount":183,"relatedPodcasts":184,"transcript":252},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"cover_image":14,"banner_image":26,"speakers":36,"members":66,"picks_of_the_day":99,"tags":158,"tagsPrepared":179,"speakersPrepared":180},"3138e634-0d6a-4e87-a6bf-d09fa50a056f","2025-11-11T05:00:00.000Z","deep_dive","195","Embedded Development Jakob Czekansky","deep-dive-195-embedded-development-jakob-czekansky","\u003Cp>Embedded Systems stecken heute in nahezu jedem Gerät. Moderne Autos, Spülmaschinen bis hin zu Flugzeugen würden ohne die verbauten Mikrocontroller nicht funktionieren. Doch wie genau entstehen eingebettete Systeme? Wie entwickelt man Software für Mikrocontroller und woher kommt die passende Hardware? Darüber sprechen Jan und Dennis mit Jakob Czekansky, der an der Technischen Hochschule Mittelhessen zu \u003Ca href=\"https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eingebettetes_System\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Embedded Systems\u003C/a> lehrt und forscht.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Im Gespräch wird deutlich, dass die Grenze zwischen „klassischer“ Softwareentwicklung und Embedded-Entwicklung oft fließend ist. Jakob erläutert die wesentlichen Unterschiede und spricht über die besonderen Herausforderungen aus seiner Lehre. Außerdem berichtet Jakob von seinem \u003Ca href=\"https://micro.mni.thm.de/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Forschungsprojekt MICRO\u003C/a>, das den \u003Ca href=\"https://orcid.org/0000-0001-8432-0092\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Zugang zu Hardware für Studierende aus der Ferne ermöglichen\u003C/a> und skalierbar machen soll. \u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Wie man selbst ohne Lötkolben den Einstieg in Embedded Software Engineering findet und was Software-Teams und Embedded-Entwickler:innen voneinander lernen können, erfahrt ihr am Ende der Folge.\u003C/p>",null,"https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/episodes/18138425-deep-dive-195-embedded-development-jakob-czekansky.mp3",{"id":15,"title":16,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":17,"filename_download":18,"metadata":19,"type":20,"filesize":21,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":22,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":24,"folder":12,"width":25,"height":25,"charset":12,"duration":12},"dc853a8f-f4ea-4838-adca-4dca08a7fde6","195 Ig Fb Jakob Czekansky","dc853a8f-f4ea-4838-adca-4dca08a7fde6.png","195_ig_fb_Jakob Czekansky.png",{},"image/png","1856230","2025-11-05T13:32:31.658Z","7d52cb41-56d8-499c-b7a2-46c2e0d8f405","2025-11-05T13:32:31.653Z",1501,{"id":27,"title":28,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":29,"filename_download":30,"metadata":31,"type":20,"filesize":32,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":33,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":34,"folder":12,"width":35,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"635cb640-9dcc-4c87-bd5c-8d00d058f64f","Jakob Czekansky  Profile","635cb640-9dcc-4c87-bd5c-8d00d058f64f.png","Jakob Czekansky _profile.png",{},"242488","2025-11-05T13:32:34.177Z","2025-11-05T13:32:34.174Z",512,[37],{"speaker":38},{"id":39,"slug":40,"academic_title":12,"occupation":41,"first_name":42,"last_name":43,"description":44,"event_image":45,"profile_image":57},"3d80214e-5e4d-4cfe-b3bd-d6862edfd49b","jakob-czekansky","Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter & Projektleiter an der Technischen Hochschule Mittelhessen","Jakob","Czekansky","\u003Cp>Mit Bastel- und Spieldrang, Neugier und der Überzeugung, dass sich technische Herausforderungen durch kreative Ansätze lösen lassen, verbindet Jakob Czekansky Lehre, Forschung und Ingenieurskunst. Seit 2020 ist er wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter an der Technischen Hochschule Mittelhessen in Gießen, wo er sich in Lehre und Forschung allem rund um Mikrocontroller und Embedded Systems widmet. \u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Als Leiter des \u003Ca href=\"https://micro.mni.thm.de/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Lehr- und Forschungsprojekts MICRO\u003C/a> verantwortet er die Entwicklung eines Remote-Labors, das Studierenden weltweit praxisnahen Zugang zu Hardware-Experimenten ermöglicht. Parallel promoviert Jakob im Fach Informatik mit dem \u003Ca href=\"https://orcid.org/0000-0001-8432-0092\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Schwerpunkt auf verteilten technischen Systemen und digitalen Lehr- und Lernkonzepten\u003C/a>. Darüber hinaus engagiert er sich in internationalen Forschungsinitiativen wie der \u003Ca href=\"https://iaoe.clubexpress.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">International Association of Online Engineering (IAOE)\u003C/a>.\u003C/p>",{"id":46,"title":47,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":48,"filename_download":49,"metadata":50,"type":51,"filesize":52,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":53,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":54,"folder":12,"width":55,"height":56,"charset":12,"duration":12},"c737e0dc-3179-44db-9c33-0fd2732414a8","Jakob Czekansky  Event","c737e0dc-3179-44db-9c33-0fd2732414a8.jpg","Jakob Czekansky _event.jpg",{},"image/jpeg","1001896","2025-11-05T13:36:31.627Z","2025-11-05T13:36:31.625Z",1536,1024,{"id":58,"title":59,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":60,"filename_download":61,"metadata":62,"type":20,"filesize":63,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":64,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":65,"folder":12,"width":56,"height":56,"charset":12,"duration":12},"032331ee-6ab6-48a6-8e26-4c62eb413a6e","Jakob Czekansky Speaker Profile","032331ee-6ab6-48a6-8e26-4c62eb413a6e.png","Jakob Czekansky Speaker Profile.png",{},"1245516","2025-11-05T13:36:51.368Z","2025-11-05T13:36:51.365Z",[67,84],{"member":68},{"id":69,"first_name":70,"last_name":71,"occupation":72,"description":73,"normal_image":74},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","// programmier.bar Tech Community Lead // Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich über Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielfältigen Rollen – vom Entwickler über den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development – verfügt Jan über einen großen Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchgängen an exotischen Orten über das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in Büchern und Filmen.\u003C/p>",{"id":75,"title":76,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":77,"filename_download":78,"metadata":79,"type":51,"filesize":80,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":81,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":82,"uploaded_on":83,"folder":12,"width":56,"height":56,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b","Jan CD","ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b.jpg","Jan_CD.jpg",{},"649400","2024-07-26T09:26:17.846Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-26T09:26:17.710Z",{"member":85},{"id":86,"first_name":87,"last_name":88,"occupation":89,"description":90,"normal_image":91},"958f6624-c721-4ff9-8a97-69148f540945","Dennis","Becker","// Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dennis ist Head of Development bei Lotum und kümmert sich liebevoll um die Entwickler:innen und deren Weiterentwicklung. \u003Cbr>In den Podcastfolgen übernimmt Dennis gerne die Moderation. Beim täglichen Tischtennis ist er immer am Start und seit wenigen Jahren passionierter Kitesurfer. Mittlerweile ist er auch Vibe Coder mit Leidenschaft und überzeugt, dass seine Kolleg:innen AI unterschätzen. \u003C/p>",{"id":92,"title":93,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":94,"filename_download":95,"metadata":12,"type":51,"filesize":96,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":97,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":98,"folder":12,"width":56,"height":56,"charset":12,"duration":12},"7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9","Dennis Becker","7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9.jpg","dennis_becker_normal_01e352e682.jpg","45729","2022-01-16T14:26:35.196Z","2021-12-30T14:16:28.647Z",[100,116,129,142],{"id":101,"name":102,"website_url":103,"description":104,"image":105},"e60b74eb-d966-4608-9034-ec06cf0fce7f","Home Assistant","https://www.home-assistant.io/","\u003Cp>Home Assistant ist nicht ohne Grund \u003Ca href=\"https://octoverse.github.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">eines der größten Open-Source-Projekte auf GitHub\u003C/a>. Einst als Projekt zur Automatisierung von Smart-Home-Geräten gestartet, ist es mittlerweile der zentrale Anlaufpunkt dafür geworden.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Dank des hervorragenden Community-Supports unterstützt Home Assistant eine Vielzahl an unterschiedlichen Herstellern, groß wie klein, und eine breite Palette an unterschiedlichen Geräte-Typen. Dabei könnt ihr es zuhause selbst betreiben – etwa auf einem Raspberry Pi.\u003C/p>",{"id":106,"title":12,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":107,"filename_download":108,"metadata":109,"type":51,"filesize":110,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":111,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":112,"uploaded_on":113,"folder":12,"width":114,"height":115,"charset":12,"duration":12},"c3499f09-d68f-44b5-89d3-05fd986c1e72","c3499f09-d68f-44b5-89d3-05fd986c1e72.jpg","www-home-assistant-io.jpg",{},"75478","2025-10-07T12:53:19.149Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2025-10-07T12:53:19.147Z",1366,768,{"id":117,"name":118,"website_url":119,"description":120,"image":121},"26defb66-6646-461c-89b7-27474f113552","JLCPCB","https://jlcpcb.com/","\u003Cp>Unter dem Motto „You innovate, we assemble“ bietet JLCPCB euch die Möglichkeit, maßgefertigte Platinen auch in geringer Stückzahl nach euren Plänen zu bestellen. Die Preise beginnen dort ab fünf Stück.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Neben der Anfertigung von Platinen kann der asiatische Anbieter für euch auch die Bestückung mit Komponenten übernehmen oder 3D-Drucke und CNC-Anfertigungen durchführen.\u003C/p>",{"id":122,"title":12,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":123,"filename_download":124,"metadata":125,"type":51,"filesize":126,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":127,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":112,"uploaded_on":128,"folder":12,"width":114,"height":115,"charset":12,"duration":12},"8b1d87e7-4473-41d9-883c-eee4dfa46562","8b1d87e7-4473-41d9-883c-eee4dfa46562.jpg","jlcpcb-com.jpg",{},"132285","2025-10-07T13:17:24.981Z","2025-10-07T13:17:24.979Z",{"id":130,"name":131,"website_url":132,"description":133,"image":134},"c58e7746-85b3-4f9c-b5de-71ddf04d1ff8","KiCad","https://www.kicad.org/","\u003Cp>Die Open-Source-Anwendung KiCad hilft euch bei der Gestaltung eigener Platinen. Neben dem Planen eurer PCBs (printed circuit boards) unterstützt euch KiCad auch dabei, Fehler frühzeitig zu entdecken und realistische Vorschauen eurer Projekte zu generieren.\u003C/p>",{"id":135,"title":12,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":136,"filename_download":137,"metadata":138,"type":51,"filesize":139,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":140,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":112,"uploaded_on":141,"folder":12,"width":114,"height":115,"charset":12,"duration":12},"8837db0f-c7ff-41a7-90fb-92f8a7e3b07a","8837db0f-c7ff-41a7-90fb-92f8a7e3b07a.jpg","www-kicad-org.jpg",{},"158919","2025-10-07T14:01:14.948Z","2025-10-07T14:01:14.942Z",{"id":143,"name":144,"website_url":145,"description":146,"image":147},"d083f371-5ce6-4d88-9627-456e450b3a21","Not a Robot","https://neal.fun/not-a-robot/","\u003Cp>Seid ihr ein Roboter oder ein Mensch? Und wie sicher seid ihr euch?\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>„Not a Robot“ präsentiert euch eine Reihe von Captchas, also kleinen Aufgaben, um zu testen, ob ihr ein Mensch seid oder nicht. Die Aufgaben werden dabei sukzessive ausgefallener. Solange, bis ihr selbst anfangt, an euch zu zweifeln.\u003C/p>",{"id":148,"title":149,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":150,"filename_download":151,"metadata":152,"type":20,"filesize":153,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":154,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":112,"uploaded_on":155,"folder":12,"width":156,"height":157,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ba383224-b92e-4280-b5e5-c54fa19d720e","Screenshot 2025 10 07 at 14.53.53","ba383224-b92e-4280-b5e5-c54fa19d720e.png","Screenshot 2025-10-07 at 14.53.53.png",{},"68699","2025-10-07T12:54:02.991Z","2025-10-07T12:54:02.989Z",1442,852,[159,163,167,171,175],{"tag":160},{"id":161,"name":162},"413ecac0-2dd4-4f20-8c3e-2d3e4256b12a","Weiterbildung",{"tag":164},{"id":165,"name":166},"327c68e0-4691-4a45-acbf-b7cc1f34a91f","Embedded",{"tag":168},{"id":169,"name":170},"266bbaf2-8597-4c1e-b0f3-6634e79a19c1","Smart Home",{"tag":172},{"id":173,"name":174},"3ef09bf7-06f6-4750-8ec5-56c7bc18942e","Mikrocontroller",{"tag":176},{"id":177,"name":178},"7b9ea08d-b478-4e30-883d-171fc2561523","IoT",[160,164,168,172,176],[181],{"first_name":42,"last_name":43,"profile_image":57,"slug":40,"description":44,"event_image":45,"academic_title":12},461,191,[185,202,221,237],{"id":186,"slug":187,"published_on":188,"type":7,"number":189,"title":190,"audio_url":191,"cover_image":192},"0c0490a1-3b03-44dd-abc8-ce599c06fda2","deep-dive-199-headless-apps-mit-marcel-koch","2026-01-20T05:00:00.000Z","199","Headless Apps mit Marcel Koch","https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/episodes/18506116-deep-dive-199-headless-apps-mit-marcel-koch.mp3",{"id":193,"title":194,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":195,"filename_download":196,"metadata":197,"type":20,"filesize":198,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":199,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":112,"uploaded_on":200,"folder":12,"width":201,"height":201,"charset":12,"duration":12},"cc771dba-efd9-4842-b86a-328c149fc751","199 Ig Fb Marcel Koch","cc771dba-efd9-4842-b86a-328c149fc751.png","199_ig_fb_Marcel Koch.png",{},"2004394","2026-01-14T09:33:02.337Z","2026-01-14T09:33:02.334Z",1500,{"id":203,"slug":204,"published_on":205,"type":206,"number":207,"title":208,"audio_url":209,"cover_image":210},"57cc8476-9c64-442c-84cd-a0a0664037b6","news-ai-18-apple-mm1-mistral-grok-inflection-microsoft-open-interpreter","2024-03-27T19:46:54.956Z","news","AI #18","Apple MM1 // Mistral // Grok // Inflection & Microsoft // Open Interpreter","https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/14781630-news-ai-18-apple-mm1-mistral-grok-inflection-microsoft-open-interpreter.mp3",{"id":211,"title":212,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":213,"filename_download":214,"metadata":215,"type":20,"filesize":216,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":217,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":218,"uploaded_on":219,"folder":12,"width":220,"height":220,"charset":12,"duration":12},"b1dbe941-c3ef-4dac-9b91-fe2d29e624c1","18 Ai News","b1dbe941-c3ef-4dac-9b91-fe2d29e624c1.png","18_AI-News.png",{},"7330711","2024-03-27T19:46:45.699Z","8560be10-f74f-4dad-9bf3-1313950e1a63","2024-03-27T19:46:44.807Z",3000,{"id":222,"slug":223,"published_on":224,"type":7,"number":225,"title":226,"audio_url":227,"cover_image":228},"3b899bc4-6363-48cc-bae0-417ae31c47f4","deep-dive-85-openhaystack-mit-alexander-heinrich","2021-04-09T14:00:00.000Z","85","OpenHaystack mit Alexander Heinrich","https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/8303648-folge-85-openhaystack-mit-alexander-heinrich.mp3",{"id":229,"title":230,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":231,"filename_download":232,"metadata":12,"type":51,"filesize":233,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":234,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":235,"folder":12,"width":236,"height":236,"charset":12,"duration":12},"94fa5977-f5a3-46e8-8477-d69f069e18c5","Openhaystack Mit Alexander Heinrich","94fa5977-f5a3-46e8-8477-d69f069e18c5.jpg","openhaystack_mit_alexander_heinrich_4a84243786.jpg","178580","2022-01-16T14:26:50.166Z","2021-12-30T14:14:40.844Z",1400,{"id":238,"slug":239,"published_on":240,"type":206,"number":241,"title":242,"audio_url":243,"cover_image":244},"2e4558c1-046c-4072-97d6-26c9950f894d","news-02-21-r2dbc-mql-trump-und-die-sozialen-medien-ionic-vue-support","2021-01-13T15:00:00.000Z","02/21","R2DBC // MQL // Trump und die sozialen Medien // Ionic Vue Support","https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/7255900-news-02-21-r2dbc-mql-trump-und-die-sozialen-medien-ionic-vue-support.mp3",{"id":245,"title":246,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":247,"filename_download":248,"metadata":12,"type":51,"filesize":249,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":250,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":251,"folder":12,"width":236,"height":236,"charset":12,"duration":12},"66e39127-7641-405a-b037-b4899c0a064d","R2dbc Mql Trump Und Die Sozialen Medien Ionic Vue Support","66e39127-7641-405a-b037-b4899c0a064d.jpg","r2dbc_mql_trump_und_die_sozialen_medien_ionic_vue_support_2cdc321601.jpg","94418","2022-01-16T14:26:21.479Z","2021-12-30T14:14:03.869Z",{"id":253,"service":254,"supported_features":255,"speakers":258,"raw_response":266},"41f0b9a1-8930-483c-b2f7-5286a3b32e58","deepgram",[256,257],"timestamps","diarization",[259,261,264],{"identifier":260,"name":87},"0",{"identifier":262,"name":263},"1","Jan",{"identifier":265,"name":42},"2",{"metadata":267,"results":281},{"transaction_key":268,"request_id":269,"sha256":270,"created":271,"duration":272,"channels":273,"models":274,"model_info":276},"deprecated","292961d5-1d2c-4928-8f77-48e6f83cccd6","795b7dbd08177971231b470c6c1c9c258cbd7820ebdad8224961d46fb79ecbae","2025-11-11T12:10:08.086Z",4472.9067,1,[275],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":277},{"name":278,"version":279,"arch":280},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"channels":282,"utterances":40049},[283],{"alternatives":284},[285],{"transcript":286,"confidence":287,"words":288,"paragraphs":37584},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen, liebe Hörer*innen zu einem neuen Deep Dive der programmierbar. Mein Name ist Dennis Becker und zusammen bin ich heute im Studio mit Dem Jan Imgetrieben. Moin moin. Genau. Und wir wollen heute ein bisschen über Embedded sprechen. Ist, glaube ich, 'n sehr großer Bereich. Wir werden's noch 'n bisschen näher definieren, aber wir haben Nicht zu verwechseln mit Embeddings. Nicht zu verwechseln mit dem AI Team Embeddings, das ist richtig, sondern es geht eher Hardware und Mikrocontroller und so solche Geschichten. Und dafür haben wir heute einen Gast eingeladen, der sich schon seit ein paar Jahren damit beschäftigt, was man dort alles machen kann. Und das ist Jakob Tschekanski. Jakob, schön, dass Du da bist. Hallöchen, schön, dass ich da sein darf. Jakob, Du bist jetzt schon eine Dekade an der Uni. Ich hoffe, da fühlst Du dich jetzt nicht alt durch, aber 'N bisschen. Genau. Und hast dich sehr, sehr viel mit dem Thema beschäftigt. Was machst Du grade an der Uni? Und genau, erzähl uns mal 'n bisschen was über deine aktuelle Rolle. Das ist immer relativ kompliziert zu erklären. Ich würd sagen, mein Hauptjob ist es eigentlich, dass ich da Vorlesungen halte. Das heißt, als als Dozent bin ich tätig im Bereich von Microcontroller Technik, bei der Systems und alles, was so irgendwie in den Kontext von Informatik in Hardware passt. Das heißt, es kann Robotik sein, es können Mikrocontroller sein, es kann eine Spülmaschine sein oder was auch immer. Und in dem Kontext halte ich im Normalfall meine Vorlesung. Das heißt, im dritten Semester fang ich da an mit Grundlagenvorlesungen und hab zusätzlich aber zu meinen Vorlesungen, die ich halte, auch noch 'n Forschungsprojekt, das sich micro schimpft. Dürfen wir eigentlich, haben wir gar nicht vorher abgeklärt, ist die private Beziehung, die Du zu uns hast, ist die öffentlich? Ich geh davon aus, ja, also auf LinkedIn kann man das gut einsehen. Okay. Ich wollt grad sagen, ja. Na, weil wir wir kennen Jakob tatsächlich auf privat. Vanessa ist verheiratet mit Jakob. Seid jetzt auch schon das ist jetzt fies live zu Flagge. Auch schon 'n Weilchen auf jeden Fall. Und genau, Vanessa ist ja auch, war ja auch schon mit Podcast mittlerweile. Vanessa war vor Jakob im Podcast. War vorher Jakob Podcast und auch ja, schon länger bei Lotum. Und das, obwohl Jakob schon Dutzende Male hier bei uns auf den Meetups war. Das stimmt. Und er 'n Mitglied, in der programmierbar ist sozusagen. Das stimmt. Und jetzt endlich auch mal am Mikrofon. Von daher, genau, das das vielleicht noch als als als Kontext, dass wir uns schon 'n bisschen länger kennen. Ich weiß, gibt's gibt's eine Definition für? Also weil irgendwie, das hört man immer mal wieder und es geht dann immer, ja okay, es sind irgendwie in Geräten drin und keine Ahnung was. Also gibt's irgendwie eine offizielle Abgrenzung, wo anfängt und irgendwie aufhört? Ja, das ist 'n bisschen schwierig, weil sich das über die letzten Jahre son bisschen verändert hat. Ich hab lustigerweise grade letzte Woche in Ungarn auf 'ner auf 'ner Konferenz genau das auch versucht zu erklären, weil die Leute da nicht den Kontext hatten. Und ich versuch's immer so zu definieren, dass ich sage, das ist das, wo ich Informatik eingebettet in 'n anderen Kontext hab. Das heißt, es kann sein, dass ich zum Beispiel eine Mikrowelle habe, das kann sein, dass ich 'n Handy in der Tasche habe, es kann sein, dass ich 'n Flugzeug oder 'n Auto habe. Überall da drinnen steckt ja im Endeffekt viel Software, die sich aber 'n bisschen anders verhält, als wenn ich jetzt eben eine typische Webseite habe oder eine typische App, die aufm Computer läuft. Das heißt eben, eigentlich irgendwie Programme oder Software, die eingebettet ist in irgend 'nem technischen Kontext. Und da hätt ich eine Rückfrage zu, weil so hab ich das auch mal gelernt vor vielen Jahren, ne. Zu alt bist Du noch gar nicht. Ja, aber ich hatte trotzdem schon 'n paar Jährchen her so embedded, immer so als Teil von irgend 'nem größeren Apparat, Maschine, Anlage, Fahrzeug, was auch immer. Und dann, als ich mich son bisschen auf die Folge hier vorbereitet hab, dacht ich so, was ist denn mit diesem ganzen IoT Thema eigentlich, wo ja quasi möglichst wenig drum herum ist, diese ganzen Geräte? Also da hast Du, weiß ich nicht, draußen so einen Sensor, der nur Feuchtigkeit oder Temperatur misst oder so und das dann andauernd überträgt, der ist ja, also gesamtgenommen schon Teil von was Größerem, aber eben nicht in in 'nem Gerät drum herum, sondern da hängt ja möglichst wenig quasi in diesem einen Teil. Ist es dann trotzdem embedded? Ist das was anderes? Ist das Nee, das ist ja auch absolut embedded. Das ist ja auch erst, deshalb mein ich eben, das hat sich so mit der Zeit 'n bisschen verändert. IoT ist ja auch erst groß gekommen, ich sag mal, in den letzten vielleicht 10 Jahren, vielleicht 15 Jahren. Davor war das ja noch gar nicht son großes Thema, auch grade zu Hause nicht so wirklich. Jahren. Davor war das ja noch gar nicht son großes Thema, auch grade zu Hause nicht so wirklich. Ich hab ja trotzdem am Ende einen System, was den Sensor auslesen muss. Das heißt, ich hab nicht alleine nur einen Sensor, sondern ich hab immer irgendwie einen Controller irgendwas, was quasi eine Art Minicomputer darstellt, der ja dann die Sensordaten verwalten muss, versenden muss, verarbeiten muss oder was auch immer. Okay. Also auch in einem virtuell größeren Gerät sozusagen möglichst. Absolut. Wenn ich mir überlege, wenn ich mir son ATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT Ein Sensor, ein ganz, ganz kleiner Controller, aber der wieder eingebettet in son größeres System eben, in Netzwerk zum Beispiel dann aus vielen Sensoren. Okay. Und also, wahrscheinlich falsch, aber oder nicht. Gibt es auf, also gibt es UI im im im Rahmen von oder ist, kann man sagen, das ist irgendwie immer in 'nem System drin und wenn ich jetzt irgendwie, keine Ahnung, mir das angucke auf irgend 'nem Dashboard oder irgend 'ner Oberfläche oder so was, ist das direkt 'n anderes System oder gibt es Bereiche von, die trotzdem UI bereitstellen? Das ist superspannend tatsächlich, weil das lange Zeit schwierig war, überhaupt auf sonem sonem sehr abgespeckten System eine gute UI zu haben. Aber wenn ihr mal an jedes Auto denkt, was heutzutage irgendwo rumfährt, da hab ich immer irgendwie 'n Infotainmentsystem drinnen, was auch relativ komplex heute ist. Mhm. Das ist auch in den letzten Jahren natürlich immer größer geworden. Und es gibt auch extra da tatsächlich zum Beispiel Flatter, was ich auf laufen lassen kann, was ja hier auch durchaus bei Lotum häufig schon irgendwie 'n Thema ist. Ansonsten hab ich da aber auch die Möglichkeit, mit typischen Frameworks zu arbeiten, die's sonst so eigentlich aufm normalen Computer quasi gibt, aber alles immer irgendwie in 'ner etwas abgespeckteren Version. Okay. Und klassischerweise, also weil wir auch über Mikrocontroller und ganz kleine Computer und so was reden, jetzt in 'nem Auto, das 'n großes Infotainmentsystem powert, ist ja dann auch gleichzeitig schon irgendwie wieder 'n richtiger Rechner drin gefühlt. Ist da dann wieder irgendwo sone Obergrenze, wo man sagt, okay, das ist jetzt nicht mehr, sondern das ist einfach nur 'n Computer, der 'n anderen Formfaktor hat? Das ist wahnsinnig schwer, das quasi zu trennen. Gerade in den letzten Jahren ist das ja superpotent geworden, was wir da an Hardware drin haben, wenn wir mal an Handys denken erst mal. Alleine, was sich da entwickelt hat, da hatten wir früher, das war immer unser Vorzeigebeichpiel, wenn ich son son typisches Handy hatte, was nicht smart war, dann war das für mich 'n, weil das 'n relativ schwachen Mikrocontroller verbaut hatte. Und genauso war das auch früher bei den Infotainment Systemen. Und dann sind die immer potenter und größer geworden. Also wir reden da jetzt auch übrigens von 'ner Megahertzzahl bei 'nem kleinen Mikrocontroller irgendwo von 4 Megahertz oder so. Das kann auch hochgehen auf 80 Megahertz, das kann auch hochgehen auf 720 Megahertz und auf einmal kommen wir in den Gigahertzbereich und dann fragt man sich, wann ist das denn jetzt noch Mikro und wann hat das auf einmal angefangen, nicht mehr Mikro zu sein? Deshalb definieren wir normalerweise, wenn wir von 'nem Mikrocontroller reden, auch häufig eigentlich, dass wir sagen, ich hab 'n Mikrocontroller oder auch 'n Mikrocomputer, weil's am Ende eigentlich nichts anderes ist als 'n Komplettcomputersystem, alles nur sehr abgespeckt, sehr klein. Und das verläuft sich dann irgendwann ab, wann ich sagen kann, na ja, wenn ich jetzt einen Raspberry Pi nehme, ist 'n Raspberry Pi jetzt noch son Mikrocomputersystem. Die haben mittlerweile 8 Gigabyte RAM. Die haben mittlerweile mehr Kernprozessoren da drinnen. Ist das noch Mikro? Ist schwierig zu sagen. Und für deine Forschungsarbeit oder für das, was Du im Rahmen der der Uni behandelst, würdest Du so was dann noch inkludieren oder ist das für dich klar draus, weil ihr euch eher die ganz kleinen Systeme kümmert? Tatsächlich versuchen wir ja irgendwie in der Uni alles abzudecken. Das heißt, wenn wir einsteigen in die Thematik mit den Studierenden, versuchen wir am Anfang möglichst einsteigerfreundliche Controller zu nehmen. Das heißt, wenn wir uns da eine 8 Bit Rechner Architektur angucken, ist es meistens leichter, die zu verstehen, als wenn ich dann schon auf 32 Bit hochgehe, weil dann irgendwie die Speicherverwaltung viel komplexer wird, die Adressierung viel komplexer wird, einfach alles komplexer. Und dementsprechend gucken wir, dass wir im Studium erst mal den leichten Einstieg mit weniger komplexen Dingen machen und dann eben immer höher in den industriellen Standard gehen, bis wir dann irgendwann auch auf Kortexprozessoren oder so was gehen. Und da kann man quasi mit den Studierenden bis im Wahlpflichtbereich irgendwann dann alles irgendwie abdecken. Jetzt hast Du grade so den Einstieg angesprochen. Und wie wie muss ich mir das denn vorstellen? Schwingt dir da den Lötkolben in deiner Vorlesung, ja? Werden da noch Transistoren zusammengeklebt, so wie ganz früher, so kleine Systeme dann zusammenzuschustern? Benutzt er da was von der Stange? Und okay, bevor ich die Folge gefragt stelle, erst mal, wie wie steigt ihr da so hardwaremäßig ein? Was brauch ich zu Hause, anzufangen? Gut, das ist auch sehr spannend. Ich hab jetzt an der Hochschule auch schon viel mitgemacht. Ich bin da jetzt auch schon seit, also seit 5 Jahren fest angestellt, aber davor hab ich das auch schon während meines Studiums, glaub ich, 5, 6 Jahre gemacht. Also ich würd's, ich hab jetzt gemerkt, ich hab langsam meine 10 Jahre voll. Und das Studium hat sich alleine seitdem sehr stark verändert. Wir machen mittlerweile den Einstieg absichtlich, so wie das so ausm Makerbereich bekannt ist, mit Arrenoprodukten beziehungsweise dann ESP 32 von Expressive oder alles, was eben irgendwie auf dieser Arduinoebene aufbaut. Man da den Vorteil hat, dass man quasi einen Mikrocontrollersystem hat, aber trotzdem sehr abstrakt programmieren kann. So wie man das vielleicht von Java oder anderen Sprachen irgendwie ausm Web oder so kennt, dass man wirklich sagen kann, na ja, ich hab halt irgendwie mein meinen Konsolenprint oder so was, der dann einfach direkt über meine USB Leitung über Ua drübergeschoben wird, ohne dass ich eigentlich weiß, was da passiert. Und nachdem wir quasi diesen sehr groben Einstieg machen im zweiten Semester, gehen wir dann im dritten Semester in Deep Dive und sagen, okay, wir gucken uns jetzt mal an, was passiert da auf Registerebene? Leider wird nicht so wirklich der Lötkolben geschwungen, weil wir ja schon zumindest in dem Bereich, wo ich unterwegs bin, versuchen, den Fokus auf der Programmierung und der Softwareentwicklung zu haben. Nichtsdestotrotz ist es aber, glaub ich, ganz praktisch, wenn man in dem Bereich unterwegs ist, wenn man auch durchaus in der Lage ist, den Lötkolben mal hier oder da nutzen zu können oder auch weiß, wie 'n Schaltplan funktioniert oder eben weiß, wie son größeres System mit verschiedenen Komponenten zusammen agiert. Und wenn wir dann im dritten Semester auf dieser Registerlevelebene ganz tief drinnen waren, können wir danach dann quasi wieder son Stückchen raustauchen und sagen, okay, und jetzt gehen wir auf Bibliotheken und auf komplexere Architekturen bei einem Prozessor und dementsprechend dann irgendwie so in die Richtung von 'nem Industriestandard. Und wenn ihr den Einstieg in die Entwicklung dann macht, was sagt, na ja, da kann man ja schon so ähnlich programmieren, wie Du da jetzt hast wahrscheinlich gewohnt sind. Aber trotzdem ist es ja eine beschränktere, ressourcenärmere Umgebung, auf der man da unterwegs ist. Also unabhängig davon, ob man jetzt mit 8 Megahertz oder auf 'nem Raspberry Pi, das ist ja bei Weitem alles nicht so groß wie der Desktop, von dem man vielleicht kommt, ist dein Eindruck, dass das für die Leute eher einfacher ist oder eher schwerer, sich denn da zurechtzufinden, weil, ne, einfacher, weil und gar nicht so viele Möglichkeiten und man fokussiert sich auf das Wesentliche oder schwerer, weil die Leute halt heutzutage alle verwöhnt sind von der ganzen Rechenleistung, die sie sonst so haben und sich gar nicht mehr darum kümmern, effizient und effektiv zu arbeiten? Na ja, das kommt immer 'n bisschen drauf an, was man versucht zu entwickeln dadurch, dass wir bei so Mikrocontroller Applikationen häufig so Jobs haben wie programmieren Lauflicht oder lasse auf 'nem Display 'n kleinen Text anzeigen oder so. Das ist alles meistens nicht allzu ressourcenfressen. Das heißt, da hab ich relativ viel, also relativ wenig Nebenläufigkeit, relativ wenig Speicher, den ich irgendwie benötige. Aber grade wenn wir zum Beispiel anfangen, 'n Display einzubauen und dann wollen die Studierenden das erste Mal Icons mit einbinden, Da muss einem bewusst werden, oh, die müssen ja irgendwo abgespeichert sein. Irgendwo muss ich ja dieses Bildchen, was da jetzt gerade liegt, irgendwo muss das hin. Wenn ich meinen Stecker ziehe und meinen Computer abnehme, muss das System alleine funktionieren können. Und da tauchen auf einmal dann die ersten Aha Momente auf, wo man merkt, oh, Speicher ist ja doch begrenzt. Oder wenn ich mein erstes Array habe, was da groß angelegt wird und ich auf einmal sagen muss, oh, ich kann ja nicht einfach so 1032 Bit Werte ablegen, weil ich mir damit meinen halben Speicher vorlege, dann fangen auf einmal die Studierenden an und merken, oh, ich muss doch 'n bisschen effizienter beurteilen, als ich das vielleicht bisher machen musste. Mhm. Und jetzt hast Du schon son paar Projekte genannt, die dann da so umgesetzt werden. Was ist son relativ einfaches Einstiegsobjekt? Was ist so das Hello World Äquivalent für Embedded Softwareentwicklung? Und was ist so das, was ihr am Ende dann baut, wo die Leute dann richtig stolz daneben stehen und sagen, so, jetzt hab ich dir aber mal richtig was geschafft? Ich glaube, das Erste, was wir als unser Hello World immer ansehen, ist, wenn ich eine LED zum Leuchten bringe. Egal welchen neuen Chip ich hab, egal welches Board ich hab, aber wenn es ist immer der Standard am Anfang brauche ich mein Board, ich brauch einen einen Widerstand und eine LED. Und dann bin ich happy, wenn ich die zum Leuchten bringe. Genauso wie das Hello World in meinem in meiner Konsole irgendwo. Und dann kann ich das natürlich immer weiter aufbauen. Ich glaube, das, wo bei uns, in unseren Projekten die Studierenden häufig am beeindruckendsten irgendwann von sind, ist natürlich, wenn Du anfängst, so was wie 'n autonom fahrendes Auto zu bauen, wo Du dann wirklich sehr, sehr viele Sensoren und Aktoren drinnen verbaut hast, wo Du wirklich eine Motorsteuerung und eine Motorregelung implementieren musst, wo Du bestimmte Sensorik hast, die Du auslesen und verarbeiten musst. Stell dir vor, Du hast alleine einen Sensor, der eine komplette Punktewolke an Daten aufnimmt, dir zu sagen, was grade vor dir eigentlich an Objekten ist. Du das das erste Mal dann in der Hand hältst und merkst, das ist ja doch gar nicht alles so einfach, wie ich das vielleicht nur im dritten Semester gelernt hatte und dann so was handelst, das ist, glaub ich, schon 'n cooler Moment. Ich hab nicht viel Erfahrung mit diesem ganzen Embedded Zeug, aber die Erfahrung, die ich gemacht hab, die besteht so zur Hälfte aus, das funktioniert und zur Hand, Hälfte aus, das funktioniert jetzt gar nicht mehr. Weil man ja schon, Du hast so eben dieses LED Beispiel angesprochen, so, da muss man son bisschen Spannung anlegen, da muss man vielleicht auch son Widerstand vorher noch dranhängen und so was alles. Da kann man ja aber auch was kaputtmachen. Ist das für Studenten, wenn die damit anfangen, 'n reelles Problem oder hab ich mich nur besonders dumm angestellt? Also wie viel von eurer Hardware geht da so kaputt im Laufe 1 Seminars? Da hast Du dich, glaube ich, gar nicht dumm angestellt. Das ist der absolute Standard, das soll sogar kaputt gehen, weil Du auch aus so was ja lernst. Es sollte nicht mutwillig passieren, aber im Endeffekt ist das vollkommen normal. Grade LEDs haben wir unendlich viele auf Vorrat, weil da klar ist, die gehen ständig kaputt. Genauso wie verschiedenste andere Komponenten, wo Du einfach weißt, die sind 'n bisschen anfälliger. Du versuchst den Studierenden aber im besten Fall vorher die Basics mitzugeben, sodass sie nicht komplett unerfahren in das Ganze einsteigen, sondern schon auch wissen, was sie für Fehler machen könnten. Nichtsdestotrotz ist es natürlich wahnsinnig schwer, auf sonem System das Programmieren oder das Softwareentwickeln zu lernen, weil eben dann neue Fehlerquelle dazukommt. Wenn ich wenn ich in Java Script unterwegs bin, dann hab ich quasi ich und mein Browser, wir sind unterwegs und da läuft eben meine Applikation irgendwie. Mhm. Wenn ich jetzt aber diese Blackbox wirklich vor mir habe, dann weiß ich quasi gar nicht, was ist denn das eigentlich, was da grade drinnen passiert? Ich hab quasi gar keine Möglichkeit, da reinzuschauen und irgendwie gut zu debuggen. Da gibt's natürlich auch viele andere Möglichkeiten, wie man dann damit umgehen kann, aber das ist die größte Problematik am Anfang für Studierende, da rauszufinden, wo der Fehler liegt. Ist es Code, den ich grade erst neu lerne zu entwickeln? Ist es Hardware, die falsch konfiguriert wurde? Oder noch schlimmer, ist es Hardware, die kaputt ist? Wo ich noch so lange die LED auch umdrehen kann und trotzdem funktioniert sie nicht, weil sie einfach kaputt ist. Du hattest eben gesagt, so, ne, in eurem Lehrplan deinem dritten Semester geht dir stärker so dann auf, was steckt irgendwie in einzelnen Registern, wie hieß das alles in sonem Glaubst Du, das wird ein Bestandteil der nächsten Jahre bleiben, weil man das als als Grundwissen irgendwie braucht oder entwickelt sich alles so schnell weiter, dass man letztendlich auch schon mit soner Abstraktionsebene anfangen kann und und diese Tiefe gar nicht mehr brauch in der Zukunft. Na ja, das ist son bisschen so, als würde man fragen, brauch ich heute im Physikunterricht noch das Uri Modell, zu verstehen, wie quasi Strom, Spannung und Widerstand zusammenhängen? Prinzipiell grade in Zeiten von LLMs brauch ich das vermutlich nicht. Es ist aber schon ganz praktisch zu wissen, was ich tue, wenn ich dann doch irgendwo meinen Fehler detektieren muss, der vielleicht nicht von AI oder so gefunden wird oder sogar von AI eingebaut wird. Und von daher, ich hab tatsächlich jetzt die Erfahrung gemacht im letzten Jahr oder in den in den 2 Jahren, dass ich immer mehr Studierende aus der Kerninformatik zu mir als Wahlpflichtmodul ins Wahlpflichtmodul bekomme. Mhm. Deshalb die machen das freiwillig, weil die merken, sie verstehen ansonsten nicht, wie eigentlich 'n Computer funktioniert. Und wenn ich das einmal auf dieser tiefen Ebene und ich hab das auch lange nicht verstanden, ich hab das geliebt, diesen Aha Moment zu haben und zu wissen, ah okay, ich schreibe jetzt eine bestimmte Speicheradresse. In Wirklichkeit landet's gar nicht im Speicher, sondern in Wirklichkeit landet's quasi in 'nem in 'nem Register. Und das Register wiederum hat eine kleine Schaltung verbaut, die dafür sorgt, dass jetzt auf einmal dieser Pegel, der vorher an dem Pin High Pegel wird. Wenn ich das einmal verstanden hab, dann versteh ich endlich, wie 'n Computerintern funktionieren kann. Weil vorher ist das immer die Frage, wie kommt eigentlich diese Software, die ich schreibe, dahingehend zu 'nem, da hab ich eine App, die auf meinem Computer läuft. Da passiert ja irgendwelche komische Magie. Ich schreibe Code und auf einmal seh ich eine coole Anwendung. Und auf dieser dieser sehr niedrigen Ebene hab ich eben so wenig drumherum, dass ich mich darauf fokussieren kann, wie eigentlich diese ganzen Peripherie und Komponenten miteinander interagieren. Und wie ist so der Standard oder der Zugang, den man so hat? Also ich mein, Du hast eben gesagt, so, wenn's weiter hochgeht, dann gibt's irgendwelche Industriestandards, die es dann da grundsätzlich gibt. Was ist so auf der Ebene vorher? Also gibt's irgendwie eine, wie kriegt man Zugriff zu sonem Chip? Also ich les die, haben die eine USB Buchse, die schließ ich an und alles ist gut. Gibt es ein gemeinsames Tooling, was irgendwie bei allen gleich ist und gibt's oder ist jeder von der Struktur gleich, sodass ich weiß, wenn ich dahin was schicke, dann passiert irgendwie immer das Gleiche. Also was son bisschen, welche Standards gibt es? Wie sehr entwickeln die sich weiter und und was brauch ich, na ja, ich weiß nicht, was 'n sehr simpler, keine Ahnung, wie ein sehr simpler Chip heißt oder ein Mikrocontroller heißt, aber was brauch ich grundsätzlich, damit irgendwie anzufangen? Was was was gibt's da heutzutage? Na ja, ihr kennt ja prinzipiell die Problematik, ich hab jetzt hier gerade mein iPhone neben mir liegen und ich hab immer noch 'n Lightninganschluss. Wie lange wir gebraucht haben, endlich mal USB-c durchgesetzt zu bekommen, das ist leider bei Microcontrollern genau dasselbe Problem. Das heißt, ja, wir haben da natürlich eine standardisierte USB-Buchse drin und auch da kommt so langsam USB-c rein. Nichtsdestotrotz ist es leider so, dass die ganzen Hersteller sehr restriktiv unterwegs sind, was die Kooperation mit anderen Herstellern angeht. Und es ist leider nicht so offen, wie man sich's wünschen würde, dass man sagen kann, ach, ich hab da eine Toolchain und dann funktioniert das für alle, Sondern es ist meistens so, dass die dass die Hersteller ihren ganzen, ihre ganze Toolchain proproprietär draus geben. Das funktioniert genau für diesen einen Chip beziehungsweise für diese eine Family oder für alles von dem Hersteller. Und da ist dann noch die Grenze. Das heißt, wenn ich anfange mit 'nem Chip von, ich benutz zum Beispiel bei mir grade die Sachen vom Mikrochip, wenn ich deren Toolchain nutze, dann kann ich damit wiederum nicht einen Chip von STMicro Electronics propagieren, weil die wieder komplett ihr eigenes geschlossenes System haben. Leider sind wir da sogar an vielen Stellen so weit gebunden, dass das Ganze sogar Windows funktioniert. Das heißt, wir können noch nicht mal auf 'nem Mac oder auf 'nem Linux System arbeiten zum Bedauern all unserer Studierenden, die dann sich noch irgendwie immer in Zweitsystem einrichten müssen, weil denen einerseits beigebracht wird, dass sie aufm Linux System irgendwie lernen sollen, wie c ordentlich funktioniert und gleichzeitig aber dann eben Windows brauchen, nur die Toolchain nutzen zu können. Mhm. Und die wenigsten Hersteller arbeiten da gut zusammen. Es gibt aber zum Glück mittlerweile Standards. Es gibt so was wie zum Beispiel die Arm Limited, die haben sich irgendwann mal hingesetzt und eine Art Lizenzierungssystem rausgebracht für einen Grundarchitektursystem in sonem Chip. Mhm. Das sind dann die Cortexprozessoren. Und bei denen wiederum ist es dann so, dass die von Herstellern sozusagen zugekauft werden, diese Architektur. Dann dürfen die diesen Kern quasi so mit implementieren in dem Mikrocontroller und der ist dann eben nach 'nem bestimmten standardisierten Verfahren, sodass da quasi auch eine gewisse Kompatibilität zwischen Herstellern ist. Das ist aber alles auch nur 'n semikooles Konzept, weil am Ende das Ganze wieder sehr, sehr viel Geld kostet. Das heißt, die Hersteller müssen da Lizenzen für kaufen, das finden die nicht so gut. Und das wird momentan son bisschen abgelöst von Risk Five, weil das grade groß im Kommen ist, dass es quasi einen offenen Standard geben soll, Mhm. Sodass eben dieses Lizenzierungskonzept wegfällt und Hersteller künftig besser untereinander oder eine höhere Kompatibilität untereinander hinbekommen. Du hast grade Toolchain erwähnt. Wie kann ich mir das vorstellen? Also ja, ich brauch irgendwie Windows, hast Du ja schon gesagt, aber es ist, also was bietet diese Toolchain schon von Haus aus und und wie sind da meine ersten Schritte? Was, jetzt hab ich so, ist das 'n Editor, ist das eine tolle IDI mit? Wie wie weit sind wir da? Ja, wir können quasi ganz vorne anfangen beim Editor. Da haben wir meistens schon als Erstes dann irgendwie, dass ich eine Art entweder Eclipse Derivate habe, also irgendwas, was was auf Eclipse an sich aufbaut oder eben auf Visual Studio. Das sind so meistens die beiden großen Standards und die Hersteller modifizieren sich das dann son bisschen, dass das für deren Controller quasi passt. Was schon wieder 'n bisschen nervig ist, weil das teilweise bedeutet, Du musst dir quasi mehrfach eine Visual Studio Version für verschiedene Hersteller installieren. Wenn ich dann da mein Programm drinne habe, meinen Code schreibe, dann hab ich da quasi den nächsten Step, weil ich muss ja irgendwie den Code, den ich geschrieben habe, jetzt rüberschieben, also irgendwie cross, im Gegensatz zum Compilieren für meine eigene Architektur auf meinem System und muss das quasi dann auf dem System lauffähig machen. Das heißt, ich cross compiliere und ich flashe. Das heißt, einerseits, ich baue quasi sozusagen meinen 11 beziehungsweise, das, was sonst auf meinem Computer quasi als, sagen wir mal, unter Windows Excel liefe, das. Das muss ich quasi dann irgendwie auf mein System schieben, also flashen, und da kann es dann ausgeführt werden. Und dafür sind tatsächlich mehrere Teilprogrammschritte notwendig, eben von einmal kompilieren bis hin zu rüberschieben. Das sind meistens Extraprogramme, die dann schon aneinandergebunden sind. Das ist alles schon vorkonfiguriert, meistens kann man da wenig falsch machen, weil die Hersteller das eben in diesen modifizierten IDIs dann schon direkt verbaut haben. Will ich das immer cross competierenden und flashen oder will ich das nicht auch irgendwie mal bei mir lokal in sone Art Simulator ausführen? Gibt's in manchen IDIs auch mit dabei. Das heißt, die Hersteller liefern auch teilweise dann 'n Simulator mit dazu. Ich bin großer Gegner von Simulatoren, das ist aber auch mein Forschungsprojekt. Aber grundsätzlich ist das natürlich nicht schlecht, erst mal die Sachen bei sich aufm eigenen System laufen zu haben. Trotzdem würdest Du aber ja nicht für deine Architektur kompilieren, weil Du ja zum Beispiel 'n komplett anderen Befehlssatz auf deinem Rechner hast. Das heißt, deine CPU funktioniert ja anders als die CPU der Prozessor, der in dem Mikrocontrollersystem verbaut ist. Wenn ich's emulieren würde, dann. Wenn Du versuchen würdest, jetzt den normalen Code, so wie Du ihn geschrieben hast, für dein System auszuführen, dann kannst Du dir ja son bisschen vorstellen, jetzt beim Beispiel von meinem Mikrochip zu bleiben, ich nutz da extra 'n Chip, der hat nur 135 Instruktionen. Ich sag immer, das ist 'n bisschen besserer Taschenrechner. Nichtsdestotrotz kannst Du mit diesen 135 Instruktionen jegliche komplexe Programme bauen, die man sich vorstellen kann, weil ich brauch ja gar nicht so viel. Ich brauch 'n bisschen was an Arithmetik, ich brauch 'n bisschen was was an logischen Operationen, ich brauch 'n bisschen was an Speicherverwaltung, also Sachen, die den Speicher legen und wieder rausnehmen. Und ich brauch 'n bisschen was für beziehungsweise Codestrukturierung, dass ich in der Lage bin, Jumps und so was auszuführen. Und sehr viel mehr braucht sone CPU eigentlich nicht zwangsweise. Aber wenn ich jetzt 'n Programm nehme, in c schreibe und das auf 'nem normalen Computer, auf 'ner x-sechsundachtzig-Architektur oder Ähnlichem ausführen würde, dann würde das, was ich da kompiliert habe, am Ende komplett anders aussehen als das, was ich auf meinen Mikrocontroller schieben würde, weil's eben, weil die Chips so unterschiedlich sind. Und dieses Set beispielsweise an Funktionen, die son Chip dann mitbringt oder Instruktionen, das ist dann was, was in der IDI hinterlegt ist, also wo Du dann die Unterstützung hast irgendwie, Du entwickelst jetzt für diesen Chip. Und das in der Regel mit c Genau. Also das ist auch son bisschen in der, leider noch nicht weit genug, aber son bisschen im Kommen. Ganz früher kennt man das vielleicht noch, Mikrocontrollersysteme waren lange so die Domäne von von E-Technik-Studierten. Mhm. Das heißt, das hat gar nicht so den Informatikkontext gehabt, weil man eben immer so nah an der Hardware war, dass man gesagt hat, ne, das ist zu weit weg für normale Informatikstudierte. Und mittlerweile ist es aber zum Glück so, dass wir von 'ner Sampler Programmierung sind zu C-Programmierung, c-Programmierung, was so der Standard ist und sogar schon son bisschen c plus plus haben. Hat wieder son bisschen seine Eigenheiten, manche Sachen von c plus plus sind da nicht zu 100 Prozent aufm Mikrocontroller gut zu nutzen oder schön zu nutzen. Eigentlich funktioniert das aber ziemlich, ziemlich gut. Das ist, glaub ich, einfach eine Sache der Entwicklung, dass momentan die Leute, die diese Systeme gebaut haben, natürlich noch nicht so tief in dieser c plus plus Geschichte drinnen sind, weil die haben das über Jahrzehnte mit oder c gemacht. Und dementsprechend gibt's da auch keinen großen großen Drang, das jetzt momentan irgendwie zu verändern. Mhm. Okay. Aber es gibt doch auch so Sachen wie Micro Python und so was, was ja dann noch high leveliger wäre, aber das ist noch sehr niedrig oder wieso hast Du das grade nicht aufgeführt? Na ja, die Frage ist, was so der Anwendungszweck von Micropyten am Ende ist. Wenn ich anfange, Micropyten auf meinem Mikrocontroller laufen zu lassen, dann mach ich das vermutlich vor allen Dingen, weil ich was ausprobieren möchte. Aber ich bezweifle bei den meisten Produkten, dass es sinnvoll wäre, da auf Micropyten am Ende zu setzen, weil ich einfach zu wenig, weil ich dann wieder zu weit weg bin von meiner Hardware und zu wenig Kontrolle darüber habe, was da eigentlich passiert. Wenn wir jetzt mal irgendwie 'n dummes Beispiel nehmen, ich baue einen Auto, wo ich einen Airbag System drinne habe, dann kommt ja am Ende nicht nur, welche Sprache nutz ich, sondern dann kommen ja auch noch zum Beispiel Echtzeitrestriktionen da rein. Und da möcht ich ungerne, dass irgend eine sehr, sehr high levelige Geschichte wie zum Beispiel Micropyten dafür sorgt, dass mein Airbag nicht schnell genug auslöst. Mhm. Aber wenn ich jetzt wieder im Make-up Bereich unterwegs bin und sage, ich bau mir für zu Hause mein eigenes Homeautomationssystem und ich hab irgend 'n Sensor an irgend 'nem ESP 32 hängen, wieso soll ich das nicht mit Micropyten machen? Da passiert so Safety Security mäßig wahrscheinlich nichts Schlimmes. Also why not. Berühmte letzte Worte. Da passiert nix Schlimmes. Ist aber vielleicht 'n ganz interessanter Punkt, wenn Du grade schon so Security und so was angesprochen hast. Wir kommen ja hier eher so aus diesem Webbereich auch, ja, wo Security ja eigentlich nur ist, ja, Du musst halt auf das aufpassen, was Du so nach außen expost, damit dir niemand deine API und deinen Server kaputtmachen kann, mit dem Du grade spielst. Und das ist ja natürlich jetzt im Bereich ganz anders, weil da ja natürlich also irgendein Zugang zu Hardware quasi immer da ist. Also da gibt's jetzt vielleicht nicht in jedem Auto Entertainment System den USB-C-Port, wo ich dran kann oder so, ja, aber zumindest hab ich ja quasi vollen Zugriff auf die ganze Kiste drum herum, so. Was kommen da für Bedenken oder Maßnahmen mit rein, die's vielleicht sonst außerhalb vom Embedded nicht gibt? Das ist auch ganz, ganz spannend. Da gab's früher schon immer die Problematik, dass es bestimmte Autos beispielsweise gab, bei denen die Leitungen so verlegt waren, dass Du in der Lage warst, an 'ner bestimmten Stelle zu bohren, also in die Karosserie zu bohren und dann konntest Du auf einmal den Canbus mit snippen. Das heißt, Du hattest auf einmal die Möglichkeit In dem Ohr. In dem hattest die Möglichkeit, in dem Auto Nachrichten, die unverschlüsselt waren, weil niemand auf die Idee gekommen ist, dass da überhaupt jemand drankäme, mit mitzuhören und am Ende zum Beispiel rauszubekommen, was in dem Auto genau passiert oder sogar das Auto fernzusteuern, das Auto aufzuschließen oder, oder, oder. Von daher, je nachdem, in welchem System wir da unterwegs sind, haben wir natürlich verschiedenste Sicherheitsanforderungen und das kann weniger bis sehr, sehr gravierend sein. Je nachdem Grade wenn wir in Autos, Flugzeugen oder sonst wo unterwegs sind, dann ist das natürlich äußerst wichtig, dass wir drei- oder vier- oder fünfmal abgesichert sind und die Sachen, die wir da machen, auch dementsprechend halt meistens gar nicht mal irgendwie auf dem allerneusten Stand sind, also nicht die neueste Technologie nutzen, sondern grade in Steuergeräten ist es zum Beispiel so, wenn ich irgendwo im Maschinenbau unterwegs bin und 'n Robotersystem oder so was hab oder sone SPS Steuerung für Maschinen, dann sind die auf super, also für mich, superalten Architekturen aufgebaut, weil diese Chips dann eben Service haben für 10, für 20 Jahre. Dann ist es eigentlich längst möglich, mit viel, viel mehr Ressourcen zu arbeiten, aber man sagt sich, wir bleiben lieber bei dem System, weil da sind wir, das ist sicher, das haben wir getestet. Das ist jetzt auch lange unterstützt. Und das heißt, wir haben im Vergleich zum Web, wo ich auch sagen würde, da hast Du wieder ganz andere Probleme, was Sicherheit angeht, schon auch relativ hohe Sicherheitsanforderungen bei Applikationen. Aber trotzdem, wie sieht denn sone Security Architektur aus, wenn mein Angreifer im Worst Case der Zugriff auf auf alles hat, so. Er kann er kann mein Binary nehmen und irgendwie dekompilieren, er kann meinen Traffic vielleicht mitlesen, er kann meine Verschlüsselung aushebeln, weil er die Zertifikate aus den Systemen kennt. Gibt's da überhaupt dann Sicherheit oder beschränkt sich das quasi nur auf, na ja, wir versuchen halt, ne, wie Du grade gesagt hast, dass jemand, der den Traffic jetzt mitlesen will, das vielleicht nicht unbedingt kann oder dass sich kein zusätzlicher Teilnehmer irgendwie in dieses Netzwerk, in diese Infrastruktur mit reinklingt, aber also am Ende, wenn jemand Zugriff auf alles hat, kann man sich ja kaum dagegen wehren, oder? Das ist leider sehr häufig so, ja. Also Du kannst immer irgendwie damit arbeiten, natürlich irgendwie verschlüsselt unterwegs zu sein an ganz vielen Stellen. Wir haben bei uns zum Beispiel tatsächlich 'n Mastermodul, wo die Idee ist, das nennt sich Reverse Engineering. Und da kriegst Du einfach 'n riesiges beziehungsweise kriegst 'n riesigen Codeabschnitt, aber eben nicht als Code, sondern eben eigentlich nur als Nullen und Einsen. Und dann musst Du das dekompilieren und musst rauskriegen, was das eigentlich tut. Und innerhalb von einem Semester schaffen das, normalerweise Studierende so in 'ner Gruppe von 7 bis 10 Leuten komplett rauszukriegen, wie das System funktioniert, welche Funktionen wo benutzt wurden, welche Texte wann wie wo geprinted wurden. Das heißt, das ist schon, wenn Du ohne Verschlüsselung arbeitest, relativ leicht möglich, am Ende son Gerät komplett nachzubauen und rauszukriegen, was das eigentlich tut. Aber da kannst Du dich ja quasi fast nirgendwo groß gegen wehren. Also ich denk da so an an Industrieanlagen oder so was oder jetzt, weiß nicht, Flugzeugsteuergeräte, keine Ahnung was, wo das ja auch einfach 'n 'n Betriebsgeheimnis sein kann, was da drauf ist, so, ja. Und jetzt verkaufe ich, weiß nicht, Airbus, hier mein Steuergerät und dann gucken die sich an, sagen, ja danke, wir kaufen genau 1 und die anderen 999, die wir brauchen, die machen wir selbst, so. Also da da kam das grade so her, weißt Du? Ja. Jetzt ist son bisschen aber die Frage, wie viel Aufwand Du wirklich investieren kannst und willst, son komplexes Gerät am Ende nachzubauen. Das ist mit Sicherheit an vielen Stellen möglich, aber meistens mit sonem hohen Aufwand verbunden, dass es wieder nicht mehr rentabel wird. Okay. Ich hab da leider so ein Beispiel, was mir persönlich immer sehr wehtut. Unsere Studierende kriegen von uns häufig 'n Logic Analyzer an die Hand. Das ist 'n Gerät von, ich kann die Firma nie aussprechen, ich glaub, sie heißt SALAEE. Und dieses Gerät kostet, wenn Du das bei denen kaufst, irgendwas die, ich glaube, 500 Euro. Die Software von denen dazu ist kostenlos. Jetzt schließt Du das per USB an deinen Computer an, das Gerät erkennt, was Du da hast, dann kannst Du damit an deinen Aufbau gehen und kannst rauskriegen, wo welche Signale grade high und low sind. Interpretiert dir das und sagt dir welche Messages? Also ja, kannst Du auch für Böses einsetzen, aber auch schön für Gutes. Jetzt gibt's andere Hersteller, die genau dieses Gerät einfach nachgebaut haben und das kriegst Du auf Amazon, ich glaube, für 10 oder 15 Euro. Die Software gibt's aber ja kostenlos, weil der Hersteller ja so nett ist und sagt, na ja, Du brauchst ja unser Gerät dafür. Das heißt, diese Hardware Piraterie, die da im im im im Umlauf ist, tut mir immer sehr, sehr weh, weil ich einerseits natürlich denke, das sollte nicht so sein. Ich find's aber wieder schön für die Studierenden und deshalb empfehl ich ihnen trotzdem, immer sich so was zu kaufen, weil die sich für 10 oder 15 Euro zu Hause so was hinlegen können und damit arbeiten können, weil niemand kann sich das einfach so mal während des Studiums leisten. Und ist jetzt auch leider nicht so, dass wir im Labor die Kapazität hätten für jeden Studierenden bei uns, einfach mal son Gerät hinzustellen, sondern wir haben davon dann auch nur 2 oder 3 Stück. Also man muss das immer mit sonem lachenden weinenden Auge sehen, aber es ist immer relativ schwierig, Produkte zu schützen. Du hast vorhin auch angesprochen, dass diese Produkte ja teilweise Jahre und Jahrzehnte unterstützt werden. Wie sieht denn da son Upgrade Pfad aus? Also wenn ich jetzt 10000 Steuergeräte an VW geliefert hab und die sind alle verbaut, wie wie werden die denn geupdatet? Da kommt ja kein VW Mechaniker, stöbst mir seinen Laptop an mein Auto an und und und update das dann. Das ist auch so was, was sich über viele, viele Jahrzehnte jetzt entwickelt hat. Ganz früher war das natürlich noch so, wenn wir eine Waschmaschine hatten, dann war in der Waschmaschine fest eingebrannt irgendwo einen. Da wurde mein Code draufgebrannt und den musste ich auch nie wieder ändern. Über die Jahre hat sich das dann aber son bisschen verändert, wenn man dann gemerkt hat, hey, es wär vielleicht gar nicht so schlecht in der Lage zu sein, Updates fahren zu können. Teilweise auch wieder zu 'nem negativen Teil, wenn man sich überlegt, dass ich mir einen Auto kaufen kann heutzutage, was eigentlich schon alle Features verbaut hat, hardwareseitig. Das heißt, meine Sitzheizung und was auch immer ist schon da. Ist aber nicht freigeschaltet, weil die Software da quasi geblockt ist. Und ich kann dann quasi über 'n Update nachfahren. Das heißt, heute ist das auch wieder alles irgendwie, alles ist ans Internet angebunden. Zwischenschritt war noch, ich musste früher zu 'nem Techniker fahren, ich musste dann in die VW Werkstatt fahren und musste mir dann da von 'nem Techniker am Ende 'n Update machen lassen, damit das Steuergerät auf dem neuesten Stand ist. War das nicht sogar bei dieser ganzen Abgasskandalgeschichte so, da ist ja relativ blut publik gewesen, da mussten ja viele Leute mit den Autos dann auf einmal zum Hersteller. Also da hat sich auch die Welt irgendwie son bisschen verändert und ich glaube, heute ist es diese Mikrocontroller Welt gar nicht mehr so weit weg von dieser Web Welt. Und wir lernen, wir haben in den letzten 10 Jahren sehr, sehr viel gelernt von dem, was eben im im Web und überhaupt auf auf normalen Computern unterwegs ist und haben das versucht, irgendwie auf Mikrocontroller zu abstrahieren. Ist das auch son Teil von dieser IoT Bubble, die dann da quasi einfach mitgekommen ist, dadurch, dass mehr von dieser Hardware einfach auch kontinuierlich Netzanschluss hat und sich selber updaten kann im Zweifelsfall? Auf jeden Fall, ja. Also diese ganze, dadurch, dass heute alles irgendwie 'n Netz hat, ob das jetzt 'n Internet ist, 'n Intranet oder wo auch immer es angebunden ist, hab ich natürlich viel mehr Möglichkeit. Und das haben jetzt mittlerweile, glaub ich, auch viele Hersteller, viele Firmen eingesehen, dass das am Ende mehr Vorteile als Nachteile bringt, wenn ich vernetzt bin. Mein Kühlschrank zu Hause hat übrigens 'n Mikrofon für seine Software Updates und dann kriegst Du sone kleine App und die macht dann son bisschen wie so Modemusik und Du musst das quasi an den Kühlschrank halten und dann spricht die mit dem Kühlschrank quasi so auf Probleme, ne. Pizza über, nichts zu tun. Das klingt richtig abgefahren. Aber es hat schon hat schon funktioniert. Ja, das kann der Kühlschrank jetzt mehr. Das weiß ich nicht, aber er kann auf alle Fälle auch in die andere Richtung kommunizieren, wenn Du so, Du kannst son Diagnosedampf quasi von dem Kühlschrank ziehen und dann fängt der an so zu pfeifen wie 'n Modem und die hört das quasi mit und den Code, das dann wieder in der Nähe, keine Ahnung. Das war die effizienteste Art vom Hersteller zu sagen, so implementieren wir Damenübertragungen. Ich weiß nicht, was vor 10 Jahren Bluetooth Chips gekostet haben oder so was, ja, aber offensichtlich. Ja. Das ist ja so. Ist am Rand, ist son kleiner Spot, ist so markiert mit sonem kleinen Kreis, son kleiner Lautsprecher, 'n Mikrofon hinten dran, steht so, hier bitte dranhalten und los geht's. Ja. Abgefahren. Ja, geht auch ohne 5 g. Okay, kennt ihr das noch vor den Telefonen von früher? Wenn man quasi eine eine Taste drückt, dann kommt ja ein spezifischer Ton. Ja. Und das bei jeder Taste. Das der Ton wiederum setzt sich aus bestimmten Frequenzen ja zusammen, die dann quasi wieder demoduliert werden und auf der anderen Seite sagen, hey, da will ich eigentlich hin. Ja. Es ist schon cool, dass Sie das immer noch festgestellt haben, sind wir halt genug, so was zu kennen. Aber überhaupt cool, dass Du 'n Update für den Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui ShuiHEN. Ich war das einfach mal ausprobiert. Ich hab keine Ahnung, was da jetzt passiert, ob das Eiswürfelfach jetzt besser performt oder was Du weißt. Ja, cool. Ja, nee, es ist verrückt. Also man macht sich ja tatsächlich im Alltag irgendwie wirklich Gedanken, aber wert wert zu sprechen und man irgendwie, also ich glaub, es gibt halt diese riesige Bandbreite, ne, aber ich hab hinter mir gerade diese Lichtschalter zum Beispiel, wo ich auch denke, ja, okay, die sind ja auch irgendwo gesteuert, da ist eine kleine LED dran, die aufleuchtet und irgendwie Rückmeldungen gibt, ob das jetzt grade angeschaltet oder nicht. Das heißt ja, da jedem Ding sitzt ja wahrscheinlich auch wie ein kleiner Mikrocontroller, der das irgendwie steuert. Und das geht sogar dann auch in eine richtig spannende Richtung, weil da kann man dann wieder über Energy Harvesting reden. Es gibt diese Teile tatsächlich von Herstellern, ohne dass die irgendeine eigene Energiespeicherart haben. Das heißt, Du drückst aufn Schalter und Du jagst durch das auf den Schalter drücken, 'n kleinen Metallkern, durch eine Spule und es wird genau so viel Energie induziert, eine Nachricht abzusenden. Das ist schon irgendwie genial. Ja. Und irgendwie auch 'n bisschen ineffizient, weil dann ja jeder Schalter sein eigenes Kraftwerk mitbringen muss. Ja, aber gleichzeitig wiederum keinen Energiespeicher, was wieder heißt, wir haben nicht ständig irgendwo Lithium Ionen Akkus oder so, die überbleiben, wenn so was dann mal wegkommt. Gut, die hängen ja, hängen am KNX, oder? Unsere Schalter. Diese Schalter hängen jetzt an 'nem Kabel, ja, das ist richtig, ja. Sind aber dadurch auch wieder angreifbar von außen, was wir ja auch schon hatten. Ja. Wo wir nicht mehr unser Licht, nee, war da ist das, ich weiß gar nicht, ob das komplette Licht ausgefallen, ob die alle Schalter ausgefallen sind. Kannst Du dich da noch dran erinnern? Nee, die Heizung, ne. Also ich glaub, ja, egal. Sicherheit und so. Da war noch ein Port offen. Ich hab hier noch auf meine Liste Dennis sein Lieblingsthema. Oh. Da müssen wir auch noch drüber reden, oder? Was ist dein Lieblingsthema? Ganz viele Lieblingsthemen. Komm schon, enttäusch mich nicht. Ja, ei. Sehr gut. Ja. AI ist ja überall. Mhm. So. Und ich würde mir vorstellen, dass das erst mal so auf embedded devices ziemlich schwierig ist, weil quasi keine Rechenpower. Ist es dann son Feld, wo man versucht, mit dedizierter Hardware da irgendwas zu, möglichst zu machen? Oder ist das eher, wo man sagt, so, nee, das das machen wir gar nicht hier so am richtigen Edge Edge, sondern verschieben das halt irgendwo anders hin und arbeiten dann nur mit den Ergebnissen davon weiter? Das ist, würd ich sagen, nicht zu 100 Prozent alles in der Cloud. Also wir haben durchaus einiges, was auch irgendwie auf auf dem Gerät selbst auf dem Edge Device läuft. Das läuft normalerweise dann extra über irgendwelche TPUs. Also ich hab da Tender Processing Units, das ist quasi wie eine GPU, wie man's von Grafikkarten vom Computer kennt, eben aber spezialisiert auf diese Tensoroperationen, die eigentlich eben für diese ganzen AI Modelle notwendig sind. Und das größte Problem, was ich eine Restriktion eigentlich habe in dem System, ist der Speicher. Weil ich einfach am Ende irgendwie mein Modell laden muss und das irgendwo auf meinem haben. Wenn ich da als 8 Gigabyte hab und ich hab aber am Ende irgendwie son Netz, was ich da drauf packen will, was irgendwie aus 'n paar Millionen Parametern besteht, dann kann man sich hochrechnen, wenn ein Parameter 16 Bit oder 32 Bit Floads wahrscheinlich eher 32 Bit Floads sind, dann kostet mich da sehr, sehr viel Speicher. Und dann läuft das meistens da dafür hin, dass sich so Netze dann einerseits beschneiden muss. Das heißt, ich trenn die quasi an bestimmten Stellen einfach ab und ich mach die dümmer. Das heißt, ich nutz eben am Ende irgendwie keine Floating Points, sondern ich nutz am Ende irgendwie Zahlen, bei denen ich nur noch 8 Bit oder so was fürn Speicher brauche, also Festpunktzahlen. Und bei denen hab ich dann eben am Ende weniger Intelligenz in Anführungszeichen, aber eben trotzdem noch mein Modell irgendwie, was ich eigentlich haben wollte. Und was sind das so für Use Cases, wo AI relevant ist? Puh, das geht von bis. Es gibt mittlerweile Chiphersteller, die ihre eigenen Tpus eben mit verbaut haben für bestimmte Use Cases, wie zum Beispiel Kameras, in denen schon direkt 'n AI Modul mit drinnen sitzt. Und Du kannst mit diesem Kameradevice am Ende schon eine Objekterkennung machen. Und dann hast Du eben eine sehr, sehr viel schnellere Datenverarbeitung, als ständig irgendwie den Stream irgendwohin jagen zu müssen, den noch verarbeiten. Das kostet dich alles am Ende irgendwie Traffic Zeit und so weiter. Also das gibt's auf jeden Fall. Hab ich in meinem Keller. Echt? Mhm. Was erkennst Du so in deinem Keller? Nicht l l ms, aber AI, also den Wasserzähler. Also da ist 'n kleiner ESP mit 'ner Kamera drauf und der macht aber die Texterkennung von dem von dem Kamerabild on device und schickt dann nur den Wert per was auch immer. Das klingt ähnlich effizient wie mein Kühlschrank. Wie wie will ich das denn sonst machen? Ja, Du kommst ja nicht an die Stärke, sonst kommst Du kommst nicht an die Wasserzähler und Du kommst nicht, also sonst muss Du halt das Kamerabild übertragen. Gibt gibt's heutzutage keine smarten Wasserzähler? Ich hab keine Ahnung. Ja, aber Also es gibt ja schon smarte Stromzähler, also gibt's bestimmt auch smarte Wasserzähler oder? Ist nur noch einfacher. Aber da kommst Du nicht dran. Interessanterweise, wo Du das grade so sagst mit den Piepen, ist ja ähnlich ähnlich spannend. Also die smarten Stromzähler, die übertragen das per Infrarot. Ja. Also was ja auch eine interessante Schnittstelle irgendwie ist, die zu nutzen, da nicht 'n Kabel reinzustecken. Da muss ich immer an den ehemaligen Gameboy denken, der oben diese Infrarot Schnittstelle hat und dann muss man Das hat bei mir nie funktioniert. Weil niemandem hat das funktioniert. Vielleicht war da nie 1 drin. Okay, okay, Dennis guckt seinen Wasserzähler mit E-SPären. Was was gibt's noch? Also auf jeden Fall, da wo wir's ganz viel eingesetzt haben in den letzten Jahren, ist, es gibt eine eigene Plattform von Nvidia, die nennt sich Chadson. Und das sind quasi, kann man sich 'n bisschen vorstellen, wie Raspberry Pis auf Steroiden. Da hab ich quasi dann am Ende schon meinen meinen ganz normalen Mikroprozessor und alles drauf, quasi 'n Einplatinencomputer, aber eben zusätzlich halt einen Prozessor noch eben für diese für diese AI Berechnung. Und die sind wahnsinnig potent geworden, da gibt's quasi vorn bis. Und wir haben das Teil bei uns zum Beispiel auf 'ner autonomen vorhandenen Auto im Maßstab 1 zu 10 benutzt und wir konnten damit komplett unsere Schilderkennung, unsere Straßenlinienerkennung, unsere Verhaltenslogik in 'nem AI Modell abbilden, also wirklich auch mehrere Modelle, die wir parallel laufen lassen konnten. Es gibt tatsächlich mehr als nur LLMs, auch wenn viele Menschen mittlerweile bei AI nur noch an LLMs denken. Aber grade so was wie eine Bilderkennung oder so ist ja eigentlich, das gibt's schon seit seit vielen, vielen 10 10, 20, 30 Jahren oder so. Die Hardware musste nur erst mal potent genug werden und dann kamen auf einmal LLMs und alle haben vergessen, was eigentlich drunter steckt. Aber genau, im autonomen Fahren also dementsprechend und auch wenn ich in son echtes autonomes Fahrzeug oder so hab, autonom in Anführungszeichen, wir sind da ja nur auf 'nem bestimmten Grad, aber da stecken auch wieder keine richtigen Computer drinne, sondern das sind eigentlich ja eher wieder solche Devices, die darauf ausgelegt sind, diese Jobs da dann sinnvoll zu machen. Das heißt, eigentlich hab ich eher wieder 'n Mikrocomputersystem, was in 'ner bestimmten Art und Weise gepimpt wurde und dann eben zum Beispiel für meine Schilderkennung in meinem Tesla oder so zuständig ist. Wenn Du jetzt son Beispiel nimmst, wie das das autonome Fahrzeugarm, was dort ist, ist das dann komplett alles in dem Bereich von euch und von, weil das weil das dann dort auf den Mikrocontrollern läuft. Also gerade so einfach nur die Vorstellung, okay, die normale Informatik in Anführungsstrichen oder ne, wo ist da der Zugang? Also braucht man da, Algorithmen zu entwickeln, beispielsweise was zu erkennen oder so? Ist das dann eher was aus der Informatik kommt oder ohne eine Logik zu machen, eine Entscheidung zu treffen, fahr jetzt nach links und nicht nach rechts? Ist das dann im Bereich, der außerhalb sozusagen von den liegt oder also ist auch in der in der in der Wirtschaft sozusagen das in diesem Bereich drin oder ist das jetzt bei euch, weil es gut passt, das in dem Umfeld zu implementieren? Es kommt 'n bisschen drauf an, in welchem Anwendungsbereich man irgendwann landet. Wenn ich jetzt bei 'nem Staubsaugerroboterhersteller zum Beispiel lande, dann wird vermutlich alles, was ich in sonem Staubsaugerroboter habe, ja irgendwie als abgebildet, programmiert werden müssen. Das heißt, ich hab da eben bestimmte Sensorik, ich hab da eine bestimmte Verhaltenslogik drinnen und das muss ich ja irgendwie alles auf dieses Device bekommen. Also ich zumindest will nicht, dass mein Roborock, so wie er bei uns zu Hause heißt, irgendwie nach Hause telefoniert und ständig irgendwie meine Daten irgendwo hinschickt, sondern das soll im besten Fall alles auf dem Gerät passieren. Ich glaube, das, was wir in machen, hat 'n sehr großen Schnitt mit dem auch von der normalen Kerninformatik, wie man's kennt, also auch von der Implementierung auf auf herkömmlichen Computern. Man hat eben nur diese Besonderheiten, die vielleicht wie wenig Speicher oder teilweise weniger Rechenkapazität, die eben bei sonem dazu kommen. Aber an sich, Algorithmik, na ja, muss ich genauso machen wie wie auf 'nem normalen Computer auch. Meinen Speicher Sachen ablegen, Sachen wieder rausladen, muss ich auf jedem Device ähnlich machen. Mhm. Wir haben son bisschen schon über diesen Update oder mangelnden Updateprozess gesprochen, wie das funktionieren kann. Aber wie funktioniert denn son Deployment überhaupt? Also wenn ich hier mal unsere Webanwendung wieder als Vergleich nehm, dann weiß nicht, wenn ich super Hipster unterwegs bin, dann pack ich meinen Code irgendwie in 'n Docker Container, schieb den irgendwohin und dann dann läuft der so. Aber wenn ihr jetzt oder oder keine Ahnung, absetzt von von dem Uni, wir bleiben bei deinem Staubsauger. Jetzt hat da irgendjemand den den Quertext für diesen Staubsauger gesprochen geschrieben und da gehört ja auch wahrscheinlich son sehr custom Hardware Stack mit dazu, weil die nehmen ja wahrscheinlich nicht irgendwie hier den Arduino von der Stange und löten den dann in den Roboter rein, sondern die haben ja wahrscheinlich 'n sehr angepasstes Setup. Und wo kommt das denn eigentlich am Ende her? Also muss ich mir dann, weiß nicht, meine 500 besten Mitarbeiter nehmen und alle löten in Kleinarbeit das so betschweise zusammen? Oder wo geh ich hin und sag, hier, hier ist mein Plan, bitte bau mir das mal so in in Kleinserien, in Großserien oder wie wie funktioniert da die Fertigung dazu? Na ja, am Ende ist es leider nicht, sobald Du anfängst, Hardware als als Ebene mit dazu zu bauen, hast Du auf einmal sehr viel weniger Flexibilität. Weil bei Software haben wir mit CICD normalerweise die Möglichkeit, relativ easy irgendwie mal schnell Hotfix auszuspielen oder eine Version von Software zu verändern. Das geht leider nicht so ganz, wenn Du auf einmal sagst, ups, sie, ich hab vergessen, eine Leiterbahn ziehen. Da kann ich jetzt gar kein Signal drauflegen, dann muss ich eben einen neuen Prototypen erstellen. Ich hab in der Vergangenheit auch mal 'n paar Jahre in dem in 'nem Ingenieurbüro gearbeitet und da hatten wir eben genau die Situation, dass wir vom Kunden ungefähr jede Woche, maximal alle 2 Wochen, einen neuen Prototypen zugeschickt bekommen haben. Das heißt, wir mussten immer wieder für die Software, die wir für das Ding entwickelt haben, diesen Prototypen dann auspacken, mussten uns das irgendwie mit 'nem 3D Drucker, mit 'nem Modell und so irgendwie zusammenkleben, dass wir quasi unsere Platine da hatten und alle Punkte, auf denen wir irgendwie Zugang brauchten, konnten dafür entwickeln. Und nach ein oder 2 Wochen durften wir uns das dann wieder neu zusammenbauen. Und so hat das quasi immer und immer wieder mit 'ner neuen Revision den denselben Prozess irgendwie gehabt. Das ist supersuperanstrengend, wenn Du noch nicht weit im Entwicklungsprozess bist. Das heißt, wenn sich noch viel an der Hardware ändern kann. Und dann musst Du ständig irgendwie deine Architektur umwerfen, weil Du merkst, ups, jetzt hat sich hier wieder das geändert, das hat wieder Einfluss auf das. Das heißt, Du hast einfach eine Ebene mehr mit drinnen, die halt irgendwie Probleme machen kann. Aber okay, das das ist ja aber noch in soner sehr frühen Phase. Mhm. Aber wenn ich jetzt wirklich glaube, fertig zu sein damit irgendwann mal, wer also wer wer baut mir das denn dann? Gibt's da so Standardauftragsfertigiger, wo ich so hingehen kann und sagen kann, okay, guck mal, hier ist hier ist meine Software, hier ist mein mein Zeitplan und mein Set-up so. Könnt ihr mir 1000 Stück davon machen oder muss ich all diese Komponenten irgendwie einzeln kaufen und das dann selber als Teil von meiner eigenen Fertigung herstellen? Wie wie läuft das im großen Maßstab? Es kommt 'n bisschen darauf an, ob Du jetzt als Jan fragst oder als Hersteller 1 Produktes, der das Ganze als Serie verkaufen möchte. Mhm. Wahrscheinlich eher als Hersteller. Und da würdest Du dementsprechend wahrscheinlich Dienstleister mit einbinden, die eben für dich das Produkt am Ende herstellen. Das heißt, wenn Du dein PCB, deine Platine soweit geplant hast, dass da alles irgendwie drauf passt, dann wirst Du das wahrscheinlich nicht bei uns in Deutschland herstellen, weil das relativ unlukrativ ist, sondern wirst das vermutlich irgendwo in Asien herstellen lassen. Ich persönlich lasse normalerweise mein Zeug immer bei JLC PCB herstellen. Das geht relativ schnell. Da hab ich innerhalb von 1 Woche wird das in China gefertigt, dauert ein bis 2 Tage. Dann wird das mit DHL Express hier rübergeschifft und dann hab ich nach 1 Woche meine 5 Platinen hier. Dann kann ich mit diesen 5 Platinen testen, dann kann ich Für so Mengen lohnt sich das schon? Tatsächlich ist das wahnsinnig günstig. Man denkt es nicht, aber Du kannst dir 5 Platinen für 2 Dollar herstellen lassen, wenn die im Bereich von 100 mal 100 Millimeter sind, also 10 mal 10 Zentimeter, was ist. Krass. Und das Ist technisch höher. Ja. Aber dementsprechend musst Du trotzdem eine Woche Minimum drauf warten, bis das Ding später bei dir liegt, teilweise pick of the day. Ich hab tatsächlich jetzt Na ja, aber ich mein, wenn Dennis jetzt einen Schalter selber machen will oder so was, weißt Du, und Du baust dir das zusammen und Du willst jetzt für dein Haus, weißte nicht, 100 Stück oder so was davon davon haben? Das kriegst Du ja dann easy damit hin. Ja, wird sogar je mehr Du machst, desto günstiger wird das, weil die haben natürlich riesige Maschinen, in denen die das herstellen. Und je mehr die da auf einmal irgendwie auf eine Platte packen können, desto günstiger wird das für alle. Bei uns ist das jetzt momentan leider aber mal wieder der Punkt, ich hab grade erst bestellt letzte Woche und meine Bestellung ist jetzt grade in Leipzig beim Zoll hängen geblieben. Jetzt muss ich denen wieder erklären, was ich denn da eigentlich Kryptisches bestellt habe, weil die sich wundern, was sind Warum sind Bauteile? Tatsächlich ist das 1 der Punkte, weshalb das immer wieder aufgehalten wird, weil Angst besteht, was könnte da grade irgendwo ins Land kommen? Aber Du würdest normalerweise dir also 'n Dienstleister suchen, der dir irgendwie das PCB herstellt. Du würdest dir im besten Fall 'n Dienstleister suchen, der eine Bestückung für dich herstellt. Ich hab jetzt grade erst Was ist die Bestückung? Die Teile müssen ja irgendwie, also Mikrocontroller, Kondensatoren, alles Mögliche an Teilen muss ja irgendwie dadrauf gelötet werden. Das willst Du nicht per Hand machen, auf gar keinen Fall. Ich hab jetzt grade gelernt in Grünberg hier bei uns in der Nähe Bänder hat anscheinend die neueste, modernste Bestückungsanlage Europas. Da hatt ich grade eine Werksführung und das ist schon beeindruckt, diese Maschinen, die von oben aus sind wie so Riesentacker und dann so, das einfach auf deinem Board. Ja, genau. Das, wobei es sieht sogar aus, als hättest Du 'n riesiges Schlauchsystem, wo einfach quasi von vorne das die Platinen durchgehen und Du hast 'n Robotersystem an der Seite, was in großen Rollen die Teile reinsteckt und austauschen kann, Magazine. Und da gehen wirklich riesige Magazinrollen rein und Du hast sonst nicht mitgenommen zu soner Führung. Ich war selber froh, ich dass dass ich da sein durfte. Aber ich war fasziniert, dass das bei uns hier in der Nähe Wie viele Videopodcast machen, demnächst. Ja. Neues Format. Ja, ich war wirklich fasziniert, dass das bei uns hier in der Nähe in sonem großen Maßstab gemacht wird, weil das eben sonst eigentlich sich nicht lohnt, in Deutschland großartig sone sone Herstellung zu machen. Aber wahrscheinlich für Kleinserien dann trotzdem nicht relevant wäre. Für Kleinserien ist Also wir haben jetzt netterweise den Kontakt mit denen und die haben uns dann angeboten als Hochschule dürfen wir da durchaus auch immer vorbeikommen. Ansonsten würde aber auch das wahrscheinlich irgendwo in in in Asien oder so passieren. Alles meiste ist natürlich automatisiert, das heißt, dafür gibt's wieder extra Anlagen. Du kannst sogar auch bei JLC, wenn Du deine Platine herstellst, die sogar einseitig schon bestücken lassen. Also selbst das geht bei denen mittlerweile ziemlich automatisiert. Da musst Du halt noch 'n bisschen sagen, welche Teile Du haben willst, dann gucken die, welche da halt vorrätig sind und dann dann hast Du deinen ersten Prototypen. Und dann kannst Du da quasi deine eigene deine eigene Heizungssteuerung bauen, deine eigene Thermostat, dein eigenes, was auch immer Du dir vorstellst, das ist ja das Coole, deshalb liebe ich das, was wir machen. Das ist 'n bisschen wie Lego für Erwachsene. Also Lego ist auch für Erwachsene, aber es ist quasi dieses Erschaffende, was ja auch bei Lego der Fall ist, dass Du quasi was kreieren kannst, was eigentlich gar nicht da war. Und Du hast eine Idee? Ja, dann bau's dir halt. Ja, also so so bin ich da auch tatsächlich mal zugekommen, weil ich vor, oh Gott, wann haben wir angefangen, das Haus zu planen, so vor 15 Jahren oder so? 12, 15, 12. Wollte ich meine Heizdrucksteuerung selber bauen, weil ich dachte so, okay, da da das son relativ überschaubares Problem, son Drehregler irgendwie ansteuern und 'n Thermostat dazu und dann schauen, dass das irgendwie alles funktioniert. Dann hab ich das auch so zusammen bekommen mit sonem Arduino und sonem Brettboard und so, wie das dann halt irgendwie alles mal läuft. Und dann war aber so dieses, ja, wie kriege ich jetzt aber, weiß nicht, 20 Stück von diesen Dingern halt irgendwie hergestellt und dachte, okay, niemals macht mir das ja irgendeiner in der Menge, ja. Ja. Und ich kann nicht den Arduino in die Wand verputzen bei mir so, ja. Das ist jetzt irgendwie auch nicht pragmatisch, aber wenn das heutzutage so geht in kleinserien, ist echt abgefahren. Ja, total. Also das wär dann genau für dich die Lösung gewesen, weder teuer noch groß aufwendig Und macht wahnsinnig viel Spaß, das zu bauen, weil Du eben auch dann am Computer wieder in in CAD das Ganze zeichnen kannst. Und dann ist das eben auch wieder son son schaffender Prozess, dass Du das alles so kreierst, deine kleine Stadt aufbaust, die Teile jeweils positionierst und gucken musst, die müssen natürlich dann an bestimmten Positionen sein, damit bestimmte Effekte irgendwie vermieden werden und, und, und. Also das ist 'n superspannendes Thema, alleine da wieder irgendwie reinzutauchen. Gibt es da Software, die mir helfen kann? Also Ja. Gibt es taugliche, weiß ich nicht, Simulatoren oder Validatoren oder so was, wo ich mein Layout hingeben kann, sagen kann, okay, funktioniert das überhaupt so, wie ich das haben will? Du hast im Normalfall in soner Software auch immer schon 'n Checker mit drin, 'n Error Checker, der überprüft, ob Du irgendwelche groben Fehler gemacht hast. Das heißt, ob bestimmte Leiterbahnen an bestimmten anderen Leiterbahnen liegen und da nicht liegen dürften oder, oder, oder. Das heißt, im Normalfall, wenn, ich persönlich benutz jetzt gerne Keycard, aber es gibt dafür auch dann Eagle oder irgendwelche andere professionelle Software eben zum zum Zeichnen von Platinen. Und da hast Du auch immer bestimmte Validierungssoftware schon mit drinnen verbaut, die drauf achtet, dass Du keine groben Schnitzer machst. Nichtsdestotrotz läuft's meistens auf mehrere Revisionen hinaus. Also man macht Fehler, was leider auch bei uns im Forschungsprojekt ständig passiert, dass grade wenn Studierende einfach so was eben planen und haben, die haben noch nicht die Erfahrung, müssen sie ja auch nicht haben, aber dann kommen halt mehr Iterationsprozesse rein, weil Du halt doch auf einmal merkst, der Pin ist falsch angesteuert worden und jetzt ist die komplette Platine hin, weil da hätte gar keinen Strom liegen dürfen oder keine Spannung anliegen dürfen. Nee. Du hast grad schon wieder simulatoren genannt oder simulieren genannt. Wir wollen ja auch noch auf ein Projekt zu sprechen kommen, was Du, glaube ich, mit gestartet hast oder zumindest stark involviert warst. Wobei kann das denn helfen und was, wo geht's da bei Micro oder ist es deutsch? Mikro? Nee, also wir versuchen's als Micro auszusprechen. Okay. Ja, das ist mein kleines Baby. Das hab ich vor, ich glaube, 3 Jahren mittlerweile, 20 22 haben wir das gestartet, eben weil ich die Erfahrungen gemacht habe einerseits in der Industrie, dass es kein schöner Prozess war, immer wieder neue Prototypen zu bekommen und die dann quasi zugeschickt bekommen zu müssen per Post, dann damit arbeiten zu können. Und andererseits, weil wir während Corona gemerkt haben, dass die Ausbildung von unseren Studierenden hart darunter gelitten hat, dass man eben nicht mehr in Labore kam. Wenn ich normalerweise für Softwareentwicklung nur 'n Computer brauche, hier aber jetzt ständig die Restriktion hab, dass ich einen Board, 'n Mikrocontroller bohrt oder bestimmte Peripherie brauche, dann muss ich das irgendwie remote verfügbar machen. Und die Grundidee von Micro, übrigens erreichbar über Micro Punkt t m Punkt d e, ist, dass wir Versuchsaufbauten für unsere Studierenden komplett digital zur Verfügung stellen. Das heißt, ich hab da ganz, ganz viel netterweise von Lothum gelernt immer wieder. Ich bin sehr dankbar in den letzten Jahren wirklich ganz viel von eurer Kompetenz mitgenommen zu haben, weil zum Beispiel unsere App, die wir dann da haben, eben in Viewjs gebaut ist, weil ich keine Ahnung davon habe und dann natürlich bei euch gemerkt hab, ihr habt genau davon Ahnung. Also bin ich natürlich auch auf das Wert aufgesprungen. Die Idee von Micro ist jetzt eben, dass wir in einem bestimmten Microcube, den wir haben, das ist einfach son geschlossenes Würfelsystem, dass wir da quasi einen Versuch drinnen haben und diese Würfel quasi replizieren können. Von diesen Würfeln haben wir mittlerweile bei uns an der Hochschule irgendwas, die, ich glaube, 40 Stück. Wir bauen auch immer noch fleißig weiter und jeder Versuch hat quasi seinen eigenen Würfel. Das heißt, wir haben auf sonem Brett in 'nem Cube drinnen den Versuchsaufbau und die Studierenden können per Webcam dieses ganze Ding beobachten und können von zu Hause aus ihren Code nehmen, wenn sie auf soner Station eingeloggt sind, können den da draufladen. Das heißt, der ganze Entwicklungsprozess passiert ganz normal, wie sonst auch aufm eigenen Computer. Und wenn ich denke, die Software, die ich habe, kann ich jetzt testen, schieb ich das einmal bei uns übers VPN eben auf soner Station drauf. Und dann seh ich eben, ob die LEDs Ob er's abbraucht. Ob er's abraucht. Na, wir haben schon darauf geachtet, dass möglichst wenig kaputt machbar ist, aber eben, ob mein Lauflicht so läuft, wie laufen sollte oder ob sich der Servomotor genau in der Geschwindigkeit eine bestimmte Position bewegt. Ob mein Lichtsensor richtig funktioniert, mein Farbsensor die richtige Farbe detektiert oder, oder, oder. Aber ist dann, also wo kommt dieses Set-up in dem Würfel her? Weil das teilen sich ja dann alle. Die Resurces an sich, also die Cubes an sich teilen sich alle, aber wenn Du dich bei uns im System einmal eingeloggt hast und die Station für dich reserviert hast, gehört sie für die nächsten 10 Minuten dir. Ja, aber da muss ja trotzdem die die Hardware, die da drin ist und die Verkabelung und die, weiß nicht, wenn da, ich brauch da 'n Aktor drin oder 'n Sensor oder keine, das muss ja drin sein, das muss ja bestückt sein, das meine ich. Das heißt, habt ihr da einmal was reingesteckt, wo quasi alles da ist, was man so brauchen kann oder gibt's da verschiedene Würfel, die verschiedene Set-up mit, also, ne? Also das System an sich, auch gleich ist pro Forschungs, also pro eurem Uniprojekt quasi so vorbereitet schon für die Teilnehmende. Genau. Wir haben quasi für verschiedene Lehrmodule haben wir verschiedene verschiedene Experimente vorbereitet. Okay. Wir benutzen das vor allen Dingen, wie gesagt, in meinem Modul logischerweise. Aber wir haben das auch für technische Informatik 2, da hat sich das jetzt richtig, richtig ausgezahlt, dass wir das System haben, weil bei mir, bei Mikroprozessertechnik, da waren das immer 20 Studierende. Die kannst Du auch ganz gut handeln, indem Du die einfach nur im Labor hast. Wenn Du jetzt aber anfängst, 'n Modul mit fast 200 Studierenden zu haben, dann kannst Du nicht mehr 200 Studierenden Hardware bereitstellen. Das macht's irgendwie komplizierter. Und die Grundidee da jetzt aber zu sagen, ich hab eben Hardware, die sich Studierende teilen können und einfach remote verfügbar, dann bin sie's auch brauchen. Dann hab ich teilweise Leute, die nutzen das nachts 12. Dann hab ich andere Leute, die benutzen das dann und dann. Und dementsprechend hab ich quasi pro Modul bestimmte Aufbauten, die jeder dann und dann nutzen kann, wenn's grade frei ist. Jetzt sind wir bisher noch nicht großartig in Restriktionen reingelaufen, weil wir einfach so viel bereitstellen, dass wir gar nicht großartig eine zu hohe Last hätten. Ja. Okay, ja, dann dann macht das Sinn. Ich dachte nur grade, wie wie schafft ihr das quasi sone universelle CICD Umgebung bereitzustellen, wenn ja superviel davon an der Hardware irgendwie auch auch mithängt, ganz konkret. Aber das das richtig Geile bei dem System ist eigentlich, dass wir architektonisch halt eben drauf geachtet haben, das möglichst serviceorientiert aufzubauen. Das heißt, Du hast quasi in jedem von diesen Cubes 'n eigenen Minicomputer, eben 'n raspberry Pi 5 momentan hängen. Und unser Deployment System funktioniert eben so, dass wenn wir eine neue Funktionalität brauchen, können wir einfach einen Service anpassen, zum Beispiel unseren Service und können dann halt auch 'n neuen Mikrocontroller Chip unterstützen. Oder können eben für einen anderes Modul auch irgend eine andere Funktionalität hinzufügen, indem wir nur diesen Service aufdrehen. Und so können wir quasi diese Versuche oder diese diese Cubes an sich für alle Versuche, die wir haben, eigentlich gleich nutzen, weil unser System am Ende eben so anpassbar ist, dass es halt einerseits für Mikroprozessortechnik mit der Toolchain von Microchip funktioniert. Aber auch wenn ich halt 'n TI 2 Versuchsaufbau hab, also technische Informatik 2 auf Arduinobasis, dann nutzt der halt einfach nur im Bild Service eine andere Toolchain, in dem Fall dann eben dieses Arduino Framework im Hintergrund. Und dann funktioniert auch das wunderbar. Bis hin zu, dass wir sogar FPGA Boards mittlerweile da drinnen haben, also quasi programmierbare Logikchips, wo ich selber in der Lage bin, Digitalschaltungen zu programmieren, auch die wieder komplett eigene Ansteuerungsart, eigene Toolchain, aber in dem System bei uns relativ easy anpassbar. Cool. Cool. Ja, ich freu mich immer wieder, wenn ich's irgendwo zeigen darf. Ich war jetzt, wie gesagt, auch grade letzte Woche in Ungarn und hab's da gezeigt und beziehungsweise ich war nur remote in Ungarn und hatte da dann eine Kollegin aus, oh, ich glaube, Kolumbien und noch 'nem südamerikanischen Land da. Und die waren auch sofort begeistert und haben gefragt, hey, wie können wir da wie können wir davon profitieren? Weil die Grundidee davon ist ja im besten Fall, dass wir in hoffentlich 'nem Jahr oder 2 'n Netzwerk aufbauen können, wo man einfach Ressourcen sinnvoll teilen kann. Wenn bei uns grade Nacht ist und sowieso niemand die Hardware verwendet, wieso teilen wir die denn da nicht einfach mit 'ner anderen Hochschule, die die Möglichkeit vielleicht besser nutzen könnte zu dem Zeitpunkt? Und wenn ihr das als Hochschule baut oder entwickelt, wie viel kommerzieller Gedanke schwingt da so mit? Weil, also ich mein, da da hast Du ja grade selber beschrieben, das ist, das ist ja schon 'n halbes Produkt. Ja, so. Ihr könnt das ja auch kommerzialisieren. Sind wir teilweise 'n kleines bisschen schon dran, aber da geht's tatsächlich nicht drum, dass wir uns irgendwie die Taschen vorher machen wollen, sondern dass wir vor allen Dingen eine Finanzierung für unser Projekt aktuell brauchen. Bisher hat das Ganze sehr, sehr gut funktioniert über über unsere Hochschule. Das heißt, ich bin da wahnsinnig dankbar. Wenn ich schätzen müsste, haben wir mit Sicherheit in dem Projekt knapp 400000 Euro stecken, was schon eine ganze, ganze Menge Geld ist. Und wir sind bisher nicht auf Drittmittel angewiesen. In der Forschung ist es leider ja häufig so. Ich weiß nicht, wie deep ihr so in dieser Thematik drinne steckt, aber es ist, wenn man an der Hochschule promoviert oder oder in der Forschung arbeitet, hat man im Normalfall einen befristeten Vertrag für ein bis 3 Jahre. Dann muss der verlängert werden oder man ist weg vom Fenster. Und ich hab die luxuriöse Situation, dass ich 'n entfristeten Vertrag habe. Das heißt, ich bin an der Hochschule für 100 Prozent Lehrer angestellt und hab quasi nebenbei dieses Forschungsprojekt unabhängig aufgezogen. Und dadurch hat das den Vorteil, dass wir keine großen Fristen haben, dass wir keine Abhängigkeit haben, Geld irgendwie beibringen zu müssen. Wir sind leider jetzt grade dank den Problemen, die das Land Hessen son bisschen momentan hat, in der Situation, dass Finanzierung doch gar nicht so schlecht wäre, weil's Hochschulen, wie man in den Medien mitbekommen hat, momentan nicht so gut geht. Aber deshalb haben wir den Vorteil, dass unser System schon in 'nem sehr, sehr weiten Zustand ist, sodass wir hoffentlich das Ganze nicht verkaufen müssen. Weil verkaufen bedeutet meistens, dass man 'n Stück Freiheit aufgeben muss. Das ist richtig, ja. Und das Schöne ist eben bei uns, dass wir momentan noch sehr, sehr unabhängig unsere Forschung und unsere Arbeit da machen können, ohne dass wir diese Abhängigkeit haben. Alright. Jakob, hätten wir noch irgendwas? Haben wir irgendeinen Bereich von übers übersprungen und dich nicht gefragt und wo Du eigentlich noch hättest, gerne was zu erzählt? Weil wir sind ja relativ blauäugig, sagen wir mal an das Thema rangegangen. Ehrlich. Ehrlich zu sein. Ich find's auf jeden Fall sehr schön, dass ihr dem Ganzen überhaupt eine Bühne bietet, weil es für euch mit Sicherheit relativ weit weg ist von dem Daily Business, was sonst Loto ja hier so am Tag hat. Ja. Aber ich glaube, wir haben 'n relativ großen Schnitt tatsächlich, was so die Technologien angeht. Ich würde mir teilweise wünschen, dass es noch viel, viel verbreiteter werde, dass die Leute noch viel mehr damit beschäftigen, weil das ist eigentlich sone coole Spaßwiese, wo man coole Sachen machen kann. Und vielen Studierenden bei uns ist es häufig gar nicht so bewusst, dass es diese Thematik überhaupt gibt. Und dann kommt wieder neues Buzzword wie zum Beispiel dann eben künstliche Intelligenz oder LLMs, die dann alles überfluten. Und uns wiederum fehlen die Studierenden, die so was machen, weil eben grade alle irgendwie nur noch auf diesen einen Hypetrain aufspringen und denken, das ist das Einzige, was es nur noch geben muss. Aber in der Zukunft brauchen wir immer noch Leute, die Maschinenbau studiert haben. Wir brauchen immer noch Leute, die Elektrotechnik oder eben Embedded Systems als Schwerpunkt irgendwie haben. Ansonsten, wir wir können nicht alle nur LLMs können, das wird nicht funktionieren. Ja. Nee, ist richtig. Also ich fand's superspannend, mir hat's mir hat's superviel Spaß gemacht, das zu hören. Und tatsächlich auch son bisschen, also auch eine Neugierde halt wirklich, das Ding ist halt, ich weiß Er weiß doch mal deinen Wasserzähler zu Hause jetzt zum Bau in selbst. Ja, genau, zum Beispiel. Ich hab auch, also das nicht selbst gebaut ist, aber halt auch 'n Heizungssystem zum Beispiel, ne, wo alle möglichen Sensoren und so was sind, wo die UI jetzt nicht besonders toll ist, da hab ich auch schon gemacht, das kann man wahrscheinlich auch besser machen. Ich weiß, dass es zeitlich ein Problem wird, ne, aber ich würde und ich würde mir auch gerne mal, also eine eigene Platine ist schon was Geiles auch, oder? Mal so selbst irgendwie die zu malen, hab ich irgendwie auch Bock drauf. Da siehst Du tatsächlich auch immer wieder, wenn unsere Studierenden das das erste Mal machen, dann packen die immer irgendwo ihren Namen drauf und daran merkst Du immer schon, ah, der ist son kleiner Stolz, der da mitschwingt. Ja. Und wenn die die dann selber auspacken, da sind die so wahnsinnig drauf, dass wenn das kommt, dann wollen die immer das Paket abholen und die wollen's aufmachen und das erste Mal in der Hand halten und dann siehst Du das glitzern in den Augen. Ja. Das ist schon schön. Ich hätte auch nämlich gedacht, dass ich sone Leiterbahn in irgend 'nem in irgend 'ner Form da drauf packe, die dann meine Initialen werden. Also weil direkt so, oh irgendwas, ja, so schreiben wir die Kamera drauf. Ja, oder eine Kleiderbahn, irgendwas noch zeichnen, so die Apple Philosophie, dass auch die Leiterbahn schön designt ist. Kleine Anekdote dazu, da gibt's tatsächlich Menschen, die Kunst in dem Bereich betreiben. Also es gibt Menschen, wenn Du, ich hab hab son paar Platinen zu Hause von 'nem Kollegen, der eben mal bei in soner Firma gearbeitet hat, wo Platinen hergestellt werden und Chips hergestellt werden. Und dann sind wir mit 'nem Mikroskop reingegangen und haben sehr, sehr hoch aufgelöste Aufnahmen gemacht. Und dann siehst Du, dass da teilweise kleine Grafiken drinnen sind. Da hat jemand 'n kleinen Tannenbaum irgendwo rein gemalt, mitten neben die Leiterbahnen. Also es ist wirklich, die Leute verewigen sich da son bisschen und zeigen so, guck mal, hier ist so, das ist von mir. Ja, ich danke gern. Na, ist schön. Vielen, vielen Dank für den Teil schon mal und es folgen noch die Pics of the day. Ich fang an. Hab natürlich lang vorbereitet eine große Liste an auf der Day, auf denen ich mich bedienen kann und passend zur heutigen Folge wähle ich einen. Ich glaub, hatten wir noch nicht, was eigentlich komisch ist. Es hat noch niemand home Assistant, glaub ich, gewählt als PKFZA. Lustig, da haben wir heute beim Mittagessen drüber gesprochen. Ja. Und hat ja ein bisschen mit Microcontrollern zumindest nur, aber man braucht sie dafür. Also Home Assistant ist ein System, keine Ahnung, mit dem man sein Haus automatisiert. Also laut unserer Suche ist es schon mal erwähnt worden, aber nur war noch nie 'n Pick of the day. Ja, okay. Und also das Ding ist halt wirklich, man kann, es ist kompatibel, man kann praktisch alles an Geräten und Sensoren und keine Ahnung, was da reinstopfen und relativ übersichtlich und einfach sich automatisieren Automatisierungen bauen, sich Dashboards bauen für irgendwelche Temperaturen und so weiter. Also wahnsinnig viel, alles was mit Hausautomatisierung, mit Licht, mit keine Ahnung was, dann Kompatibilität mit Apple und Home, wie heißt es? Apple Home Kit. Home Kit und so weiter. Android Home, also eigentlich in alle Richtungen. Wahnsinn kompatibel sehr, sehr viel weiterentwickelt, 'n Open Source Projekt, glaube ich, ist es in Sommer. Ich glaub mittlerweile sogar 1 der größten Open Source Projekte auf GitHub hab ich mal irgendwo Ja. Google gehört oder so. Ja. Ist jetzt nicht, ich bin jetzt nicht der tiefste Experte drin, aber ich find eigentlich alles cool. Ich hab zumindest 'n Raspery zu Hause laufen, wo das drauf läuft und ein paar meiner Sensordaten dort reinlaufen. Von daher ist es heute mein passender. So Jan, jetzt komm, machen wir was Passendes. Was Passendes? Nein, nein, Du darfst Du darfst alles nehmen. Ich hab auch nix Passendes dabei. Ich hab was Lustiges dabei. Und zwar hab ich not a robot und da geht es Captchas. Die könnt ich jetzt mal aufmachen, Jakob hat kein Recht dran dabei, aber Dennis kann's aufmachen. Unter Neil dot fun Slash Not dash a dash Robo. Oh, warte mal, Neil Punkt Fun Slash. Not dash a dash Robo. Und was Du da präsentiert bekommst, ist eine sehr lange Reihe immer komplizierter werdender Captures und ausgefallener werdenden Captures, zu beweisen, dass Du eben kein Roboter bist. Das Erste ist so, das kennt man so von Google, reCaptcha, kreuzt dir an, ich bin kein Roboter, dann kommen diese wunderbaren Grafik Captchas und es wird halt immer immer ausgefallener und obskurer hin zu, weiß ich nicht, sortiere irgendwelche Gedichte in 'ner Reihenfolge und bla bla bla. Und das ist also, es macht einfach nur Spaß so, ja? Und irgendwann kommt man halt an den Punkt, wo man aufgibt, weil man zu genervt ist oder die Aufgabe zu komplex wird oder okay, dann bin ich halt doch kein Mensch mehr. Das macht schon, das macht viel Spaß, so, man muss 'n bisschen puzzlen, es ist so, das kann man mal in einem Browser Tab irgendwie offen haben und immer, wenn man mal 10 Sekunden Abwechslung braucht zwischendrin, kann man sich mal wieder eine Capture Ebene weiter durchlaufen. Ihr könnt ja bei uns im Discord mal schreiben, wie weit ihr gekommen seid oder in welchem Capture ihr aufgegeben habt und verzweifelt habt und eingesehen habt, dass ihr doch kein Mensch seid. Das ist mein Pick of the day. Sorry, ich bin abgelenkt. Ja. Macht was. Wie weit bist Du, ich komm, das sieht aus wie eine mit 3 oder 4. 5 bin ich. Ja, siehst Du? Ja. Und das macht dich nicht wahnsinnig? Wir haben schon ganz andere Pixie gehabt. Aber ich find so schon immer diese diese Capture Dinger so schwierig und ich mach's so oft falsch. Ja. Ja. Dennis ist raus für die Folge, ist jetzt mit Capture beschäftigt. Jakob, was hast Du so Ey, das geht doch gar nicht. Bist obwohl kein Mensch Dennis Level 6 ausgeschrieben hatte. Okay. Jakob, was soll ich denn? Ja, jetzt bin ich auch abgelenkt von dir. Okay. Ja, dann würde ich spontan aber noch was machen. Was sagt ihr dann, was, also gerade weil weil ihr so interessiert wart bei dieser Platinherstellung. Ja, passt. Machen wir doch passend hier zu Platinherstellung einfach mal selber machen. Also ich kann allen empfehlen, dass sie einerseits als Software verwenden, weil das sehr, sehr einsteigerfreundlich ist. Damit kann ich easy meinen allerersten Schaltplan zeichnen, wenn ich das möchte. Das ist relativ groß, relativ umfassend, wenn wenn's Teile und so weiter geht. Also mit KI CAD kann man sehr, sehr schön seine ersten Schritte in dem Bereich machen. Wenn man das dann alles einmal fertig hat, hab ich persönlich sehr gute Erfahrungen mit JLCPCB gemacht. Es gibt als Alternative auch PCB way, aber es gibt bestimmt auch noch andere Hersteller. Und das ist gar nicht so teuer, wie man denkt. Das habe ich ja eben schon erzählt. Also für 5 Platinen im 100 mal 100 Millimeter Bereich ist man da bei 2 Dollar. Und wenn man sagt, man man bestellt das jetzt nicht per DHL Express, dann geht das sogar versandkostenfrei teilweise, also dann bezahle ich wirklich 2 Dollar für 5 Platinen. Das ist 'n Schnapper. Wenn ich mir dann auch die einzelnen Bauteile irgendwo mit her herbestelle von Konrad oder Reichelt oder so in Deutschland oder halt eben auch bestücken lasse das Ganze, kann man auf jeden Fall mal 'n bisschen mit rumspielen, wenn man abends irgendwie Langeweile hat und sich denkt, ich will mal was Neues lernen, ich will mal irgendwas machen, ich sonst vielleicht noch nicht so kennengelernt hab. Also ich guck mir das grade Langeweile hätte ich gern mal. Ja, ich würd mir auch wünschen, viel mehr Zeit dafür zu haben, weil ich bin immer sehr, ich hab das ja auch studiert, genau weil ich das so cool fand. Und heute ist es leider immer so, dass ich dann meinen ganzen Studierenden immer über die Schulter gucke und neidisch bin, wenn ich sehe, dass sie das alles erleben und neu erleben dürfen. Also also das JLCPCB lohnt sich allein deshalb schon, weil sie auf ihrer Startseite son cooles Video haben aus ihrer Fabrik, wie das überhaupt so alles läuft. Und wer sich das mal anschauen will, was Jakob eben so beschrieben hat, kann man das Video, glaub ich, sone Minute oder anderthalb, kann man's einfach das mal geben. Ist auch ganz interessant. Ist leider immer son bisschen übersetzungstechnisch schwierig. Es kann sein, dass da Sachen mal nicht so ganz passen, weil das eben ausm Chinesischen teilweise übersetzt wird. Keine Sorge, ist kein Scam. Ich bestell da wirklich häufiger. Ist 'n sehr, sehr cooler Laden. Wunderbar. Cool. Dennis ist noch geflasht und überleg grade, was er als Nächstes bestellen kann. Ja, ich guck mal. Ich wollt grad mal meinen Computer zuklappen. Aber dann wär die Aufnahme vielleicht sagen wir vorher noch tschüs, bevor ich einfach deinen Computer zuklappe. Okay. Ja, Jakob, vielen, vielen Dank, dass Du hier vorbeigeschaut hast und ja auch tatsächlich hier vor Ort mit uns aufm Sofa sitzen kannst. Habt ihr so viel Spaß gemacht, war sehr, sehr interessant und wie gesagt, hat auch ein bisschen geweckt, eine Motivation irgendwie was machen zu wollen in dem Bereich. Ich hoffe, das geht einigen Hörer*innen da draußen genauso. Wenn ihr Feedback habt zu der Folge, schreibt uns gerne an Podcast app programmierbar oder auch wenn ihr Fragen habt, da dürft ihr die bestimmt stellen und wir leiten sie entweder weiter an Jakob. Oder kommt in unseren Discord Server? Oh, der kommt auf unseren Discord Server. Auf oder wo kommt man da hin? Kommt man auf einen Server? Kommt man den Inhaltserver? Ich hab auf, glaub ich, auf, oder? Auf. Okay. Kommt kommt drauf. Haben wir noch die Möglichkeit? Nee, haben wir nicht. Ist 'n Deep Dive, sorry. Ja. Genau. Wir wissen nicht, wenn er veröffentlicht würde, können keine Werbung früher zur Konferenz machen. Die bestimmt stattgefunden hat und schon ganz toll war, aber es keine Tickets mit gibt's in der Vergangenheit liegt. Noch irgendwas vergessen? Nee. Vielen, vielen Dank. Danke Jakob. Bis zum nächsten Mal. Macht's gut. Tschüss. Tschau,",0.9970703,[289,297,301,304,309,312,317,321,325,329,334,339,343,348,355,359,362,366,369,372,377,380,383,386,389,394,397,403,407,412,418,422,429,433,436,439,441,444,447,450,455,462,467,471,475,479,482,485,490,494,498,503,506,508,511,516,520,523,527,534,536,539,542,547,552,554,557,560,562,567,572,576,580,583,589,592,596,599,603,608,610,614,617,621,625,630,633,636,638,641,645,649,654,658,661,664,667,670,672,675,679,683,687,690,693,697,700,703,708,711,713,716,720,725,731,736,739,743,746,750,757,760,762,765,767,770,774,779,781,783,788,790,794,800,803,805,810,814,819,821,824,826,830,832,834,837,842,845,851,854,858,861,864,868,872,874,877,879,881,885,889,894,897,899,903,905,907,911,913,916,919,923,926,929,932,935,937,940,943,948,954,956,959,962,965,968,972,975,979,985,987,992,994,997,1001,1003,1005,1007,1012,1017,1020,1025,1029,1031,1035,1038,1040,1043,1045,1048,1051,1056,1062,1066,1069,1074,1076,1080,1082,1084,1087,1090,1094,1098,1100,1104,1107,1109,1114,1117,1119,1122,1124,1129,1133,1136,1140,1143,1147,1150,1152,1157,1161,1163,1166,1168,1171,1174,1177,1179,1181,1183,1186,1189,1191,1195,1198,1203,1206,1209,1211,1214,1218,1222,1224,1226,1228,1230,1235,1239,1243,1246,1249,1251,1254,1258,1261,1263,1268,1270,1272,1274,1278,1282,1284,1288,1293,1299,1301,1304,1307,1310,1313,1315,1318,1323,1326,1328,1332,1336,1338,1341,1344,1346,1350,1352,1354,1358,1362,1366,1369,1374,1379,1383,1388,1392,1394,1396,1398,1401,1406,1412,1416,1420,1423,1426,1430,1436,1439,1441,1445,1448,1450,1454,1457,1462,1467,1471,1475,1478,1482,1488,1490,1492,1494,1498,1500,1502,1506,1510,1512,1517,1523,1525,1528,1533,1537,1540,1545,1549,1552,1554,1556,1558,1562,1568,1570,1572,1574,1576,1581,1585,1589,1591,1596,1598,1600,1604,1609,1611,1614,1617,1619,1621,1625,1628,1631,1633,1638,1642,1646,1649,1651,1653,1658,1662,1665,1667,1669,1671,1673,1678,1682,1687,1691,1695,1699,1703,1707,1709,1711,1714,1716,1721,1725,1727,1729,1731,1735,1737,1739,1742,1746,1750,1755,1758,1760,1763,1766,1768,1770,1772,1774,1777,1781,1784,1786,1788,1791,1793,1795,1798,1802,1807,1810,1812,1814,1818,1822,1827,1830,1834,1836,1839,1841,1843,1845,1848,1851,1854,1856,1859,1863,1865,1869,1873,1876,1878,1881,1885,1888,1892,1895,1899,1903,1906,1909,1912,1915,1918,1923,1927,1932,1934,1936,1940,1945,1948,1950,1953,1955,1959,1961,1963,1965,1967,1969,1972,1977,1980,1982,1985,1989,1992,1994,1997,2000,2003,2007,2009,2013,2015,2019,2021,2023,2027,2030,2032,2034,2037,2040,2043,2046,2048,2052,2054,2056,2058,2060,2064,2067,2069,2072,2074,2076,2079,2082,2084,2086,2091,2093,2095,2098,2100,2102,2104,2108,2110,2113,2116,2118,2121,2125,2127,2129,2131,2133,2135,2137,2140,2144,2146,2150,2155,2157,2159,2161,2163,2165,2167,2171,2174,2176,2180,2183,2187,2189,2191,2194,2196,2198,2202,2204,2206,2210,2213,2217,2219,2223,2226,2228,2230,2234,2236,2240,2242,2244,2246,2249,2251,2254,2259,2261,2264,2266,2268,2271,2273,2276,2281,2284,2286,2288,2290,2294,2296,2299,2303,2307,2310,2312,2316,2319,2321,2325,2328,2330,2332,2334,2336,2339,2342,2346,2349,2352,2357,2359,2363,2365,2367,2371,2375,2378,2380,2382,2384,2386,2388,2390,2393,2395,2399,2402,2407,2412,2414,2416,2418,2421,2423,2427,2432,2434,2437,2441,2444,2446,2448,2450,2455,2458,2461,2466,2469,2471,2473,2477,2479,2482,2485,2488,2494,2500,2506,2510,2513,2515,2518,2522,2526,2528,2531,2534,2536,2538,2540,2542,2546,2548,2551,2554,2558,2561,2564,2567,2569,2572,2574,2577,2580,2583,2586,2589,2591,2593,2596,2599,2602,2606,2609,2613,2617,2619,2624,2626,2629,2631,2636,2639,2642,2646,2649,2652,2656,2660,2662,2665,2669,2672,2676,2679,2681,2683,2686,2688,2690,2693,2698,2700,2702,2705,2709,2714,2719,2721,2723,2725,2730,2732,2734,2736,2738,2741,2743,2747,2750,2753,2755,2757,2760,2763,2765,2768,2770,2772,2774,2777,2780,2785,2788,2791,2793,2797,2799,2802,2804,2808,2810,2812,2818,2820,2822,2824,2826,2829,2833,2835,2837,2839,2842,2847,2850,2853,2855,2857,2861,2863,2865,2867,2869,2871,2875,2877,2879,2883,2887,2890,2893,2895,2897,2900,2905,2907,2910,2914,2916,2919,2921,2923,2926,2928,2931,2935,2939,2944,2946,2949,2951,2953,2955,2958,2962,2965,2969,2971,2974,2976,2980,2982,2985,2990,2994,2996,2998,3000,3002,3004,3006,3009,3011,3013,3016,3018,3020,3023,3025,3027,3029,3031,3035,3037,3039,3041,3043,3047,3051,3055,3057,3059,3062,3065,3069,3071,3073,3075,3077,3079,3082,3084,3086,3088,3091,3093,3095,3097,3099,3101,3105,3111,3114,3116,3118,3122,3127,3132,3134,3137,3139,3141,3146,3150,3153,3156,3158,3162,3165,3167,3169,3171,3173,3177,3182,3186,3188,3190,3193,3196,3198,3200,3204,3209,3212,3214,3217,3221,3223,3225,3227,3229,3235,3241,3243,3245,3249,3251,3254,3257,3259,3262,3264,3266,3268,3270,3273,3276,3279,3282,3287,3289,3291,3294,3296,3298,3302,3306,3311,3317,3322,3328,3330,3334,3336,3341,3343,3348,3351,3353,3355,3360,3363,3365,3367,3371,3373,3377,3380,3382,3384,3386,3389,3392,3394,3396,3398,3400,3403,3405,3408,3410,3413,3415,3417,3420,3423,3425,3427,3430,3432,3434,3437,3441,3443,3445,3447,3451,3453,3456,3461,3463,3465,3468,3471,3473,3475,3479,3482,3484,3488,3493,3496,3498,3501,3505,3509,3511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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen, liebe Hörer*innen zu einem neuen Deep Dive der programmierbar. Mein Name ist Dennis Becker und zusammen bin ich heute im\n\nSpeaker 1: Studio mit Dem Jan Imgetrieben. Moin moin.\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau. Und wir wollen heute ein bisschen über Embedded sprechen. Ist, glaube ich, 'n sehr großer Bereich. Wir werden's noch 'n bisschen näher definieren, aber wir haben\n\nSpeaker 1: Nicht zu verwechseln mit Embeddings.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nicht zu verwechseln mit dem AI Team Embeddings, das ist richtig, sondern es geht eher Hardware und Mikrocontroller und so solche Geschichten. Und dafür haben wir heute einen Gast eingeladen, der sich schon seit ein paar Jahren damit beschäftigt, was man dort alles machen kann. Und das ist Jakob Tschekanski. Jakob, schön, dass Du da bist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Hallöchen, schön, dass ich da sein darf.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jakob, Du bist jetzt schon eine Dekade an der Uni. Ich hoffe, da fühlst Du\n\nSpeaker 2: dich jetzt nicht alt durch, aber 'N bisschen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau. Und hast dich sehr, sehr viel mit dem Thema beschäftigt. Was machst Du grade an der Uni? Und genau, erzähl uns mal 'n bisschen was über deine aktuelle Rolle.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist immer relativ kompliziert zu erklären. Ich würd sagen, mein Hauptjob ist es eigentlich, dass ich da Vorlesungen halte. Das heißt, als als Dozent bin ich tätig im Bereich von Microcontroller Technik, bei der Systems und alles, was so irgendwie in den Kontext von Informatik in Hardware passt. Das heißt, es kann Robotik sein, es können Mikrocontroller sein, es kann eine Spülmaschine sein oder was auch immer. Und in dem Kontext halte ich im Normalfall meine Vorlesung.\n\nDas heißt, im dritten Semester fang ich da an mit Grundlagenvorlesungen und hab zusätzlich aber zu meinen Vorlesungen, die ich halte, auch noch 'n Forschungsprojekt, das sich micro schimpft.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dürfen wir eigentlich, haben wir gar nicht vorher abgeklärt, ist die private Beziehung, die Du zu uns hast, ist die öffentlich?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich geh davon aus, ja, also auf LinkedIn kann man das gut einsehen. Okay. Ich wollt grad sagen, ja. Na, weil wir\n\nSpeaker 0: wir kennen Jakob tatsächlich auf privat. Vanessa ist verheiratet mit Jakob. Seid jetzt auch schon\n\nSpeaker 2: das ist jetzt fies live zu Flagge.\n\nSpeaker 0: Auch schon 'n Weilchen auf jeden Fall. Und genau, Vanessa ist ja auch, war ja auch schon mit Podcast mittlerweile.\n\nSpeaker 1: Vanessa war vor Jakob im Podcast.\n\nSpeaker 0: War vorher Jakob Podcast und auch ja, schon länger bei Lotum.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und das, obwohl Jakob schon Dutzende Male hier bei uns auf den Meetups war.\n\nSpeaker 3: Das stimmt. Und er\n\nSpeaker 1: 'n Mitglied, in der programmierbar ist sozusagen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das stimmt. Und jetzt endlich auch mal am Mikrofon. Von daher, genau, das das vielleicht noch als als als Kontext, dass wir uns schon 'n bisschen länger kennen. Ich weiß, gibt's gibt's eine Definition für? Also weil irgendwie, das hört man immer mal wieder und es geht dann immer, ja okay, es sind irgendwie in Geräten drin und keine Ahnung was.\n\nAlso gibt's irgendwie eine offizielle Abgrenzung, wo anfängt und irgendwie aufhört?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, das ist 'n bisschen schwierig, weil sich das über die letzten Jahre son bisschen verändert hat. Ich hab lustigerweise grade letzte Woche in Ungarn auf 'ner auf 'ner Konferenz genau das auch versucht zu erklären, weil die Leute da nicht den Kontext hatten. Und ich versuch's immer so zu definieren, dass ich sage, das ist das, wo ich Informatik eingebettet in 'n anderen Kontext hab. Das heißt, es kann sein, dass ich zum Beispiel eine Mikrowelle habe, das kann sein, dass ich 'n Handy in der Tasche habe, es kann sein, dass ich 'n Flugzeug oder 'n Auto habe. Überall da drinnen steckt ja im Endeffekt viel Software, die sich aber 'n bisschen anders verhält, als wenn ich jetzt eben eine typische Webseite habe oder eine typische App, die aufm Computer läuft.\n\nDas heißt eben, eigentlich irgendwie Programme oder Software, die eingebettet ist in irgend 'nem technischen Kontext.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und da hätt ich eine Rückfrage zu, weil so hab ich das auch mal gelernt vor vielen Jahren, ne. Zu alt bist Du noch gar nicht. Ja, aber ich hatte trotzdem schon 'n paar Jährchen her so embedded, immer so als Teil von irgend 'nem größeren Apparat, Maschine, Anlage, Fahrzeug, was auch immer. Und dann, als ich mich son bisschen auf die Folge hier vorbereitet hab, dacht ich so, was ist denn mit diesem ganzen IoT Thema eigentlich, wo ja quasi möglichst wenig drum herum ist, diese ganzen Geräte? Also da hast Du, weiß ich nicht, draußen so einen Sensor, der nur Feuchtigkeit oder Temperatur misst oder so und das dann andauernd überträgt, der ist ja, also gesamtgenommen schon Teil von was Größerem, aber eben nicht in in 'nem Gerät drum herum, sondern da hängt ja möglichst wenig quasi in diesem einen Teil.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ist es\n\nSpeaker 1: dann trotzdem embedded? Ist das was anderes? Ist das\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, das ist ja auch absolut embedded. Das ist ja auch erst, deshalb mein ich eben, das hat sich so mit der Zeit 'n bisschen verändert. IoT ist ja auch erst groß gekommen, ich sag mal, in den letzten vielleicht 10 Jahren,\n\nSpeaker 3: vielleicht 15 Jahren. Davor war das ja noch gar nicht son großes Thema, auch grade zu Hause nicht\n\nSpeaker 2: so wirklich. Jahren. Davor war das ja noch gar nicht son großes Thema, auch grade zu Hause nicht so wirklich. Ich hab ja trotzdem am Ende einen System, was den Sensor auslesen muss. Das heißt, ich hab nicht alleine nur einen Sensor, sondern ich hab immer irgendwie einen Controller irgendwas, was quasi eine Art Minicomputer darstellt, der ja dann die Sensordaten verwalten muss, versenden muss, verarbeiten muss oder was auch immer.\n\nSpeaker 3: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also auch in einem virtuell größeren Gerät sozusagen möglichst.\n\nSpeaker 2: Absolut. Wenn ich mir überlege, wenn ich mir son ATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT Ein Sensor, ein ganz, ganz kleiner Controller, aber der wieder eingebettet in son größeres System eben, in Netzwerk zum Beispiel dann aus vielen Sensoren.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Und also, wahrscheinlich falsch, aber oder nicht. Gibt es auf, also gibt es UI im im im Rahmen von oder ist, kann man sagen, das ist irgendwie immer in 'nem System drin und wenn ich jetzt irgendwie, keine Ahnung, mir das angucke auf irgend 'nem Dashboard oder irgend 'ner Oberfläche oder so was, ist das direkt 'n anderes System oder gibt es Bereiche von, die trotzdem UI bereitstellen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist superspannend tatsächlich, weil das lange Zeit schwierig war, überhaupt auf sonem sonem sehr abgespeckten System eine gute UI zu haben. Aber wenn ihr mal an jedes Auto denkt, was heutzutage irgendwo rumfährt, da hab ich immer irgendwie 'n Infotainmentsystem drinnen, was auch relativ komplex heute ist. Mhm. Das ist auch in den letzten Jahren natürlich immer größer geworden. Und es gibt auch extra da tatsächlich zum Beispiel Flatter, was ich auf laufen lassen kann, was ja hier auch durchaus bei Lotum häufig schon irgendwie 'n Thema ist.\n\nAnsonsten\n\nSpeaker 3: hab\n\nSpeaker 2: ich da aber auch die Möglichkeit, mit typischen Frameworks zu arbeiten, die's sonst so eigentlich aufm normalen Computer quasi gibt, aber alles immer irgendwie in 'ner etwas abgespeckteren Version. Okay. Und\n\nSpeaker 0: klassischerweise, also weil wir auch über Mikrocontroller und ganz kleine Computer und so was reden, jetzt in 'nem Auto, das 'n großes Infotainmentsystem powert, ist ja dann auch gleichzeitig schon irgendwie wieder 'n richtiger Rechner drin gefühlt. Ist da dann wieder irgendwo sone Obergrenze, wo man sagt, okay, das ist jetzt nicht mehr, sondern das ist einfach nur 'n Computer, der 'n anderen Formfaktor hat?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist wahnsinnig schwer, das quasi zu trennen. Gerade in den letzten Jahren ist das ja superpotent geworden, was wir da an Hardware drin haben, wenn wir mal an Handys denken erst mal. Alleine, was sich da entwickelt hat, da hatten wir früher, das war immer unser Vorzeigebeichpiel, wenn ich son son typisches Handy hatte, was nicht smart war, dann war das für mich 'n, weil das 'n relativ schwachen Mikrocontroller verbaut hatte. Und genauso war das auch früher bei den Infotainment Systemen. Und dann sind die immer potenter und größer geworden.\n\nAlso wir reden da jetzt auch übrigens von 'ner Megahertzzahl bei 'nem kleinen Mikrocontroller irgendwo von 4 Megahertz oder so. Das kann auch hochgehen auf 80 Megahertz, das kann auch hochgehen auf 720 Megahertz und auf einmal kommen wir in den Gigahertzbereich und dann fragt man sich, wann ist das denn jetzt noch Mikro und wann hat das auf einmal angefangen, nicht mehr Mikro zu sein? Deshalb definieren wir normalerweise, wenn wir von 'nem Mikrocontroller reden, auch häufig eigentlich, dass wir sagen, ich hab 'n Mikrocontroller oder auch 'n Mikrocomputer, weil's am Ende eigentlich nichts anderes ist als 'n Komplettcomputersystem, alles nur sehr abgespeckt, sehr klein. Und das verläuft sich dann irgendwann ab, wann ich sagen kann, na ja, wenn ich jetzt einen Raspberry Pi nehme, ist 'n Raspberry Pi jetzt noch son Mikrocomputersystem. Die haben mittlerweile 8 Gigabyte RAM.\n\nDie haben mittlerweile mehr Kernprozessoren da drinnen. Ist das noch Mikro? Ist schwierig zu sagen. Und für deine Forschungsarbeit oder für das, was Du im Rahmen der der Uni behandelst, würdest Du\n\nSpeaker 0: so was dann noch inkludieren oder ist das für dich klar draus, weil ihr euch eher die ganz kleinen Systeme kümmert?\n\nSpeaker 2: Tatsächlich versuchen wir ja irgendwie in der Uni alles abzudecken. Das heißt, wenn wir einsteigen in die Thematik mit den Studierenden, versuchen wir am Anfang möglichst einsteigerfreundliche Controller zu nehmen. Das heißt, wenn wir uns da eine 8 Bit Rechner Architektur angucken, ist es meistens leichter, die zu verstehen, als wenn ich dann schon auf 32 Bit hochgehe, weil dann irgendwie die Speicherverwaltung viel komplexer wird, die Adressierung viel komplexer wird, einfach alles komplexer. Und dementsprechend gucken wir, dass wir im Studium erst mal den leichten Einstieg mit weniger komplexen Dingen machen und dann eben immer höher in den industriellen Standard gehen, bis wir dann irgendwann auch auf Kortexprozessoren oder so was gehen. Und da kann man quasi mit den Studierenden bis im Wahlpflichtbereich irgendwann dann alles irgendwie abdecken.\n\nSpeaker 1: Jetzt hast Du grade so den Einstieg angesprochen. Und wie wie muss ich mir das denn vorstellen? Schwingt dir da den Lötkolben in deiner Vorlesung, ja? Werden da noch Transistoren zusammengeklebt, so wie ganz früher, so kleine Systeme dann zusammenzuschustern? Benutzt er da was von der Stange?\n\nUnd okay, bevor ich die Folge gefragt stelle, erst mal, wie wie steigt ihr da so hardwaremäßig ein? Was brauch ich zu Hause, anzufangen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Gut, das ist auch sehr spannend. Ich hab jetzt an der Hochschule auch schon viel mitgemacht. Ich bin da jetzt auch schon seit, also seit 5 Jahren fest angestellt, aber davor hab ich das auch schon während meines Studiums, glaub ich, 5, 6 Jahre gemacht. Also ich würd's, ich hab jetzt gemerkt, ich hab langsam meine 10 Jahre voll. Und das Studium hat sich alleine seitdem sehr stark verändert.\n\nWir machen mittlerweile den Einstieg absichtlich, so wie das so ausm Makerbereich bekannt ist,\n\nSpeaker 3: mit\n\nSpeaker 2: Arrenoprodukten beziehungsweise dann ESP 32 von Expressive oder alles, was eben irgendwie auf dieser Arduinoebene aufbaut. Man da den Vorteil hat, dass man quasi einen Mikrocontrollersystem hat, aber trotzdem sehr abstrakt programmieren kann. So wie man das vielleicht von Java oder anderen Sprachen irgendwie ausm Web oder so kennt, dass man wirklich sagen kann, na ja, ich hab halt irgendwie mein meinen Konsolenprint oder so was, der dann einfach direkt über meine USB Leitung über Ua drübergeschoben wird, ohne dass ich eigentlich weiß, was da passiert. Und nachdem wir quasi diesen sehr groben Einstieg machen im zweiten Semester, gehen wir dann im dritten Semester in Deep Dive und sagen, okay, wir gucken uns jetzt mal an, was passiert da auf Registerebene? Leider wird nicht so wirklich der Lötkolben geschwungen, weil wir ja schon zumindest in dem Bereich, wo ich unterwegs bin, versuchen, den Fokus auf der Programmierung und der Softwareentwicklung zu haben.\n\nNichtsdestotrotz ist es aber, glaub ich, ganz praktisch, wenn man in dem Bereich unterwegs ist, wenn man auch durchaus in der Lage ist, den Lötkolben mal hier oder da nutzen zu können oder auch weiß, wie 'n Schaltplan funktioniert oder eben weiß, wie son größeres System mit verschiedenen Komponenten zusammen agiert. Und wenn wir dann im dritten Semester auf dieser Registerlevelebene ganz tief drinnen waren, können wir danach dann quasi wieder son Stückchen raustauchen und sagen, okay, und jetzt gehen wir auf Bibliotheken und auf komplexere Architekturen bei einem Prozessor und dementsprechend dann irgendwie so in die Richtung von 'nem Industriestandard.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und wenn ihr den Einstieg in die Entwicklung dann macht, was sagt, na ja, da kann man ja schon so ähnlich programmieren, wie Du da jetzt hast wahrscheinlich gewohnt sind. Aber trotzdem ist es ja eine beschränktere, ressourcenärmere Umgebung, auf der man da unterwegs ist. Also unabhängig davon, ob man jetzt mit 8 Megahertz oder auf 'nem Raspberry Pi, das ist ja bei Weitem alles nicht so groß wie der Desktop, von dem man vielleicht kommt, ist dein Eindruck, dass das für die Leute eher einfacher ist oder eher schwerer, sich denn da zurechtzufinden, weil, ne, einfacher, weil und gar nicht so viele Möglichkeiten und man fokussiert sich auf das Wesentliche oder schwerer, weil die Leute halt heutzutage alle verwöhnt sind von der ganzen Rechenleistung, die sie sonst so haben und sich gar nicht mehr darum kümmern, effizient und effektiv zu arbeiten?\n\nSpeaker 2: Na ja, das kommt immer 'n bisschen drauf an, was man versucht zu entwickeln dadurch, dass wir bei so Mikrocontroller Applikationen häufig so Jobs haben wie programmieren Lauflicht oder lasse auf 'nem Display 'n kleinen Text anzeigen oder so. Das ist alles meistens nicht allzu ressourcenfressen. Das heißt, da hab ich relativ viel, also relativ wenig Nebenläufigkeit, relativ wenig Speicher, den ich irgendwie benötige. Aber grade wenn wir zum Beispiel anfangen, 'n Display einzubauen und dann wollen die Studierenden das erste Mal Icons mit einbinden, Da muss einem bewusst werden, oh, die müssen ja irgendwo abgespeichert sein. Irgendwo muss ich ja dieses Bildchen, was da jetzt gerade liegt, irgendwo muss das hin.\n\nWenn ich meinen Stecker ziehe und meinen Computer abnehme, muss das System alleine funktionieren können. Und da tauchen auf einmal dann die ersten Aha Momente auf, wo man merkt, oh, Speicher ist ja doch begrenzt. Oder wenn ich mein erstes Array habe, was da groß angelegt wird und ich auf einmal sagen muss, oh, ich kann ja nicht einfach so 1032 Bit Werte ablegen, weil ich mir damit meinen halben Speicher vorlege, dann fangen auf einmal die Studierenden an und merken, oh, ich muss doch 'n bisschen effizienter beurteilen, als ich das vielleicht bisher machen\n\nSpeaker 3: musste. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und jetzt hast Du schon son paar Projekte genannt, die dann da so umgesetzt werden. Was ist son relativ einfaches Einstiegsobjekt? Was ist so das Hello World Äquivalent für Embedded Softwareentwicklung? Und was ist so das, was ihr am Ende dann baut, wo die Leute dann richtig stolz daneben stehen und sagen, so, jetzt hab ich dir aber mal richtig was geschafft?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaube, das Erste, was wir als unser Hello World immer ansehen, ist, wenn ich eine LED zum Leuchten bringe. Egal welchen neuen Chip ich hab, egal welches Board ich hab, aber wenn es ist immer der Standard am Anfang brauche ich mein Board, ich brauch einen einen Widerstand und eine LED. Und dann bin ich happy, wenn ich die zum Leuchten bringe. Genauso wie das Hello World in meinem in meiner Konsole irgendwo. Und dann kann ich das natürlich immer weiter aufbauen.\n\nIch glaube, das, wo bei uns, in unseren Projekten die Studierenden häufig am beeindruckendsten irgendwann von sind, ist natürlich, wenn Du anfängst, so was wie 'n autonom fahrendes Auto zu bauen, wo Du dann wirklich sehr, sehr viele Sensoren und Aktoren drinnen verbaut hast, wo Du wirklich eine Motorsteuerung und eine Motorregelung implementieren musst, wo Du bestimmte Sensorik hast, die Du auslesen und verarbeiten musst. Stell dir vor, Du hast alleine einen Sensor, der eine komplette Punktewolke an Daten aufnimmt, dir zu sagen, was grade vor dir eigentlich an Objekten ist. Du das das erste Mal dann in der Hand hältst und merkst, das ist ja doch gar nicht alles so einfach, wie ich das vielleicht nur im dritten Semester gelernt hatte und dann so was handelst, das ist, glaub ich, schon 'n cooler Moment.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich hab nicht viel Erfahrung mit diesem ganzen Embedded Zeug, aber die Erfahrung, die ich gemacht hab, die besteht so zur Hälfte aus, das funktioniert und zur Hand, Hälfte aus, das funktioniert jetzt gar nicht mehr. Weil man ja schon, Du hast so eben dieses LED Beispiel angesprochen, so, da muss man son bisschen Spannung anlegen, da muss man vielleicht auch son Widerstand vorher noch dranhängen und so was alles. Da kann man ja aber auch was kaputtmachen. Ist das für Studenten, wenn die damit anfangen, 'n reelles Problem oder hab ich mich nur besonders dumm angestellt? Also wie viel von eurer Hardware geht da so kaputt im Laufe 1 Seminars?\n\nSpeaker 2: Da hast Du dich, glaube ich, gar nicht dumm angestellt. Das ist der absolute Standard, das soll sogar kaputt gehen, weil Du auch aus so was ja lernst. Es sollte nicht mutwillig passieren, aber im Endeffekt ist das vollkommen normal. Grade LEDs haben wir unendlich viele auf Vorrat, weil da klar ist, die gehen ständig kaputt. Genauso wie verschiedenste andere Komponenten, wo Du einfach weißt, die sind 'n bisschen anfälliger.\n\nDu versuchst den Studierenden aber im besten Fall vorher die Basics mitzugeben, sodass sie nicht komplett unerfahren in das Ganze einsteigen, sondern schon auch wissen, was sie für Fehler machen könnten. Nichtsdestotrotz ist es natürlich wahnsinnig schwer, auf sonem System das Programmieren oder das Softwareentwickeln zu lernen, weil eben dann neue Fehlerquelle dazukommt. Wenn ich wenn ich in Java Script unterwegs bin, dann hab ich quasi ich und mein Browser, wir sind unterwegs und da läuft eben meine Applikation irgendwie. Mhm. Wenn ich jetzt aber diese Blackbox wirklich vor mir habe, dann weiß ich quasi gar nicht, was ist denn das eigentlich, was da grade drinnen passiert?\n\nIch hab quasi gar keine Möglichkeit, da reinzuschauen und irgendwie gut zu debuggen. Da gibt's natürlich auch viele andere Möglichkeiten, wie man dann damit umgehen kann, aber das ist die größte Problematik am Anfang für Studierende, da rauszufinden, wo der Fehler liegt. Ist es Code, den ich grade erst neu lerne zu entwickeln? Ist es Hardware, die falsch konfiguriert wurde? Oder noch schlimmer, ist es Hardware, die kaputt ist?\n\nWo ich noch so lange die LED auch umdrehen kann und trotzdem funktioniert sie nicht, weil sie einfach kaputt ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Du hattest eben gesagt, so, ne, in eurem Lehrplan deinem dritten Semester geht dir stärker so dann auf, was steckt irgendwie in einzelnen Registern, wie hieß das alles in sonem Glaubst Du, das wird ein Bestandteil der nächsten Jahre bleiben, weil man das als als Grundwissen irgendwie braucht oder entwickelt sich alles so schnell weiter, dass man letztendlich auch schon mit soner Abstraktionsebene anfangen kann und und diese Tiefe gar nicht mehr brauch in der Zukunft.\n\nSpeaker 2: Na ja, das ist son bisschen so, als würde man fragen, brauch ich heute im Physikunterricht noch das Uri Modell, zu verstehen, wie quasi Strom, Spannung und Widerstand zusammenhängen? Prinzipiell grade in Zeiten von LLMs brauch ich das vermutlich nicht. Es ist aber schon ganz praktisch zu wissen, was ich tue, wenn ich dann doch irgendwo meinen Fehler detektieren muss, der vielleicht nicht von AI oder so gefunden wird oder sogar von AI eingebaut wird. Und von daher, ich hab tatsächlich jetzt die Erfahrung gemacht im letzten Jahr oder in den in den 2 Jahren, dass ich immer mehr Studierende aus der Kerninformatik zu mir als Wahlpflichtmodul ins Wahlpflichtmodul bekomme.\n\nSpeaker 3: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Deshalb die machen das freiwillig, weil die merken, sie verstehen ansonsten nicht, wie eigentlich 'n Computer funktioniert. Und wenn ich das einmal auf dieser tiefen Ebene und ich hab das auch lange nicht verstanden, ich hab das geliebt, diesen Aha Moment zu haben und zu wissen, ah okay, ich schreibe jetzt eine bestimmte Speicheradresse. In Wirklichkeit landet's gar nicht im Speicher, sondern in Wirklichkeit landet's quasi in 'nem in 'nem Register. Und das Register wiederum hat eine kleine Schaltung verbaut, die dafür sorgt, dass jetzt auf einmal dieser Pegel, der vorher an dem Pin High Pegel wird. Wenn ich das einmal verstanden hab, dann versteh ich endlich, wie 'n Computerintern funktionieren kann.\n\nWeil vorher ist das immer die Frage, wie kommt eigentlich diese Software, die ich schreibe, dahingehend zu 'nem, da hab ich eine App, die auf meinem Computer läuft. Da passiert ja irgendwelche komische Magie. Ich schreibe Code und auf einmal seh ich eine coole Anwendung. Und auf dieser dieser sehr niedrigen Ebene hab ich eben so wenig drumherum, dass ich mich darauf fokussieren kann, wie eigentlich diese ganzen Peripherie und Komponenten miteinander interagieren.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und wie ist so der Standard oder der Zugang, den man so hat? Also ich mein, Du hast eben gesagt, so, wenn's weiter hochgeht, dann gibt's irgendwelche Industriestandards, die es dann da grundsätzlich gibt. Was ist so auf der Ebene vorher? Also gibt's irgendwie eine, wie kriegt man Zugriff zu sonem Chip? Also ich les die, haben die eine USB Buchse, die schließ ich an und alles ist gut.\n\nGibt es ein gemeinsames Tooling, was irgendwie bei allen gleich ist und gibt's oder ist jeder von der Struktur gleich, sodass ich weiß, wenn ich dahin was schicke, dann passiert irgendwie immer das Gleiche. Also was son bisschen, welche Standards gibt es? Wie sehr entwickeln die sich weiter und und was brauch ich, na ja, ich weiß nicht, was 'n sehr simpler, keine Ahnung, wie ein sehr simpler Chip heißt oder ein Mikrocontroller heißt, aber was brauch ich grundsätzlich, damit irgendwie anzufangen? Was was was gibt's da heutzutage?\n\nSpeaker 2: Na ja, ihr kennt ja prinzipiell die Problematik, ich hab jetzt hier gerade mein iPhone neben mir liegen und ich hab immer noch 'n Lightninganschluss. Wie lange wir gebraucht haben, endlich mal USB-c durchgesetzt zu bekommen, das ist leider bei Microcontrollern genau dasselbe Problem. Das heißt, ja, wir haben da natürlich eine standardisierte USB-Buchse drin und auch da kommt so langsam USB-c rein. Nichtsdestotrotz ist es leider so, dass die ganzen Hersteller sehr restriktiv unterwegs sind, was die Kooperation mit anderen Herstellern angeht. Und es ist leider nicht so offen, wie man sich's wünschen würde, dass man sagen kann, ach, ich hab da eine Toolchain und dann funktioniert das für alle, Sondern es ist meistens so, dass die dass die Hersteller ihren ganzen, ihre ganze Toolchain proproprietär draus geben.\n\nDas funktioniert genau für diesen einen Chip beziehungsweise für diese eine Family oder für alles von dem Hersteller. Und da ist dann noch die Grenze. Das heißt, wenn ich anfange mit 'nem Chip von, ich benutz zum Beispiel bei mir grade die Sachen vom Mikrochip, wenn ich deren Toolchain nutze, dann kann ich damit wiederum nicht einen Chip von STMicro Electronics propagieren, weil die wieder komplett ihr eigenes geschlossenes System haben. Leider sind wir da sogar an vielen Stellen so weit gebunden, dass das Ganze sogar Windows funktioniert. Das heißt, wir können noch nicht mal auf 'nem Mac oder auf 'nem Linux System arbeiten zum Bedauern all unserer Studierenden, die dann sich noch irgendwie immer in Zweitsystem einrichten müssen, weil denen einerseits beigebracht wird, dass sie aufm Linux System irgendwie lernen sollen, wie c ordentlich funktioniert und gleichzeitig aber dann eben Windows brauchen, nur die Toolchain nutzen zu können.\n\nSpeaker 3: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und die wenigsten Hersteller arbeiten da gut zusammen. Es gibt aber zum Glück mittlerweile Standards. Es gibt so was wie zum Beispiel die Arm Limited, die haben sich irgendwann mal hingesetzt und eine Art Lizenzierungssystem rausgebracht für einen Grundarchitektursystem in sonem Chip.\n\nSpeaker 3: Mhm. Das sind\n\nSpeaker 2: dann die Cortexprozessoren. Und bei denen wiederum ist es dann so, dass die von Herstellern sozusagen zugekauft werden, diese Architektur. Dann dürfen die diesen Kern quasi so mit implementieren in dem Mikrocontroller und der ist dann eben nach 'nem bestimmten standardisierten Verfahren, sodass da quasi auch eine gewisse Kompatibilität zwischen Herstellern ist. Das ist aber alles auch nur 'n semikooles Konzept, weil am Ende das Ganze wieder sehr, sehr viel Geld kostet. Das heißt, die Hersteller müssen da Lizenzen für kaufen, das finden die nicht so gut.\n\nUnd das wird momentan son bisschen abgelöst von Risk Five, weil das grade groß im Kommen ist, dass es quasi einen offenen Standard geben soll, Mhm. Sodass eben dieses Lizenzierungskonzept wegfällt und Hersteller künftig besser untereinander oder eine höhere Kompatibilität untereinander hinbekommen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Du hast grade Toolchain erwähnt. Wie kann ich mir das vorstellen? Also ja, ich brauch irgendwie Windows, hast Du ja schon gesagt, aber es ist, also was bietet diese Toolchain schon von Haus aus und und wie sind da meine ersten Schritte? Was, jetzt hab ich so, ist das 'n Editor, ist das eine tolle IDI mit? Wie wie weit sind wir da?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, wir können quasi ganz vorne anfangen beim Editor. Da haben wir meistens schon als Erstes dann irgendwie, dass ich eine Art entweder Eclipse Derivate habe, also irgendwas, was was auf Eclipse an sich aufbaut oder eben auf Visual Studio. Das sind so meistens die beiden großen Standards und die Hersteller modifizieren sich das dann son bisschen, dass das für deren Controller quasi passt. Was schon wieder 'n bisschen nervig ist, weil das teilweise bedeutet, Du musst dir quasi mehrfach eine Visual Studio Version für verschiedene Hersteller installieren. Wenn ich dann da mein Programm drinne habe, meinen Code schreibe, dann hab ich da quasi den nächsten Step, weil ich muss ja irgendwie den Code, den ich geschrieben habe, jetzt rüberschieben, also irgendwie cross, im Gegensatz zum Compilieren für meine eigene Architektur auf meinem System und muss das quasi dann auf dem System lauffähig machen.\n\nDas heißt, ich cross compiliere und ich flashe. Das heißt, einerseits, ich baue quasi sozusagen meinen 11 beziehungsweise, das, was sonst auf meinem Computer quasi als, sagen wir mal, unter Windows Excel liefe, das. Das muss ich quasi dann irgendwie auf mein System schieben, also flashen, und da kann es dann ausgeführt werden. Und dafür sind tatsächlich mehrere Teilprogrammschritte notwendig, eben von einmal kompilieren bis hin zu rüberschieben. Das sind meistens Extraprogramme, die dann schon aneinandergebunden sind.\n\nDas ist alles schon vorkonfiguriert, meistens kann man da wenig falsch machen, weil die Hersteller das eben in diesen modifizierten IDIs dann schon direkt verbaut haben.\n\nSpeaker 1: Will ich das immer cross competierenden und flashen oder will ich das nicht auch irgendwie mal bei mir lokal in sone Art Simulator ausführen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Gibt's in manchen IDIs auch mit dabei. Das heißt, die Hersteller liefern auch teilweise dann 'n Simulator mit dazu. Ich bin großer Gegner von Simulatoren, das ist aber auch mein Forschungsprojekt. Aber grundsätzlich ist das natürlich nicht schlecht, erst mal die Sachen bei sich aufm eigenen System laufen zu haben. Trotzdem würdest Du aber ja nicht für deine Architektur kompilieren, weil Du ja zum Beispiel 'n komplett anderen Befehlssatz auf deinem Rechner hast.\n\nDas heißt, deine CPU funktioniert ja anders als die CPU der Prozessor, der in dem Mikrocontrollersystem verbaut ist.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wenn ich's emulieren würde, dann.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wenn Du versuchen würdest, jetzt den normalen Code, so wie Du ihn geschrieben hast, für dein System auszuführen, dann kannst Du dir ja son bisschen vorstellen, jetzt beim Beispiel von meinem Mikrochip zu bleiben, ich nutz da extra 'n Chip, der hat nur 135 Instruktionen. Ich sag immer, das ist 'n bisschen besserer Taschenrechner. Nichtsdestotrotz kannst Du mit diesen 135 Instruktionen jegliche komplexe Programme bauen, die man sich vorstellen kann, weil ich brauch ja gar nicht so viel. Ich brauch 'n bisschen was an Arithmetik, ich brauch 'n bisschen was was an logischen Operationen, ich brauch 'n bisschen was an Speicherverwaltung, also Sachen, die den Speicher legen und wieder rausnehmen. Und ich brauch 'n bisschen was für beziehungsweise Codestrukturierung, dass ich in der Lage bin, Jumps und so was auszuführen.\n\nUnd sehr viel mehr braucht sone CPU eigentlich nicht zwangsweise. Aber wenn ich jetzt 'n Programm nehme, in c schreibe und das auf 'nem normalen Computer, auf 'ner x-sechsundachtzig-Architektur oder Ähnlichem ausführen würde, dann würde das, was ich da kompiliert habe, am Ende komplett anders aussehen als das, was ich auf meinen Mikrocontroller schieben würde, weil's eben, weil die Chips so unterschiedlich sind.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und dieses Set beispielsweise an Funktionen, die son Chip dann mitbringt oder Instruktionen, das ist dann was, was in der IDI hinterlegt ist, also wo Du dann die Unterstützung hast irgendwie, Du entwickelst jetzt für diesen Chip. Und das in der Regel mit c Genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also das ist auch son bisschen in der, leider noch nicht weit genug, aber son bisschen im Kommen. Ganz früher kennt man das vielleicht noch, Mikrocontrollersysteme waren lange so die Domäne von von E-Technik-Studierten. Mhm. Das heißt, das hat gar nicht so den Informatikkontext gehabt, weil man eben immer so nah an der Hardware war, dass man gesagt hat, ne, das ist zu weit weg für normale Informatikstudierte. Und mittlerweile ist es aber zum Glück so, dass wir von 'ner Sampler Programmierung sind zu C-Programmierung, c-Programmierung, was so der Standard ist und sogar schon son bisschen c plus plus haben.\n\nHat wieder son bisschen seine Eigenheiten, manche Sachen von c plus plus sind da nicht zu 100 Prozent aufm Mikrocontroller gut zu nutzen oder schön zu nutzen. Eigentlich funktioniert das aber ziemlich, ziemlich gut. Das ist, glaub ich, einfach eine Sache der Entwicklung, dass momentan die Leute, die diese Systeme gebaut haben, natürlich noch nicht so tief in dieser c plus plus Geschichte drinnen sind, weil die haben das über Jahrzehnte mit oder c gemacht. Und dementsprechend gibt's da auch keinen großen großen Drang, das jetzt momentan irgendwie zu verändern. Mhm.\n\nOkay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber es gibt doch auch so Sachen wie Micro Python und so was, was ja dann noch high leveliger wäre, aber das ist noch sehr niedrig oder wieso hast Du das grade nicht aufgeführt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Na ja, die Frage ist, was so der Anwendungszweck von Micropyten am Ende ist. Wenn ich anfange, Micropyten auf meinem Mikrocontroller laufen zu lassen, dann mach ich das vermutlich vor allen Dingen, weil ich was ausprobieren möchte. Aber ich bezweifle bei den meisten Produkten, dass es sinnvoll wäre, da auf Micropyten am Ende zu setzen, weil ich einfach zu wenig, weil ich dann wieder zu weit weg bin von meiner Hardware und zu wenig Kontrolle darüber habe, was da eigentlich passiert. Wenn wir jetzt mal irgendwie 'n dummes Beispiel nehmen, ich baue einen Auto, wo ich einen Airbag System drinne habe, dann kommt ja am Ende nicht nur, welche Sprache nutz ich, sondern dann kommen ja auch noch zum Beispiel Echtzeitrestriktionen da rein. Und da möcht ich ungerne, dass irgend eine sehr, sehr high levelige Geschichte wie zum Beispiel Micropyten dafür sorgt, dass mein Airbag nicht schnell genug auslöst.\n\nSpeaker 3: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber wenn ich jetzt wieder im Make-up Bereich unterwegs bin und sage, ich bau mir für zu Hause mein eigenes Homeautomationssystem und ich hab irgend 'n Sensor an irgend 'nem ESP 32 hängen, wieso soll ich das nicht mit Micropyten machen? Da passiert so Safety Security mäßig wahrscheinlich nichts Schlimmes. Also why not.\n\nSpeaker 1: Berühmte letzte Worte. Da passiert nix Schlimmes. Ist aber vielleicht 'n ganz interessanter Punkt, wenn Du grade schon so Security und so was angesprochen hast. Wir kommen ja hier eher so aus diesem Webbereich auch, ja, wo Security ja eigentlich nur ist, ja, Du musst halt auf das aufpassen, was Du so nach außen expost, damit dir niemand deine API und deinen Server kaputtmachen kann, mit dem Du grade spielst. Und das ist ja natürlich jetzt im Bereich ganz anders, weil da ja natürlich also irgendein Zugang zu Hardware quasi immer da ist.\n\nAlso da gibt's jetzt vielleicht nicht in jedem Auto Entertainment System den USB-C-Port, wo ich dran kann oder so, ja, aber zumindest hab ich ja quasi vollen Zugriff auf die ganze Kiste drum herum, so. Was kommen da für Bedenken oder Maßnahmen mit rein, die's vielleicht sonst außerhalb vom Embedded nicht gibt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist auch ganz, ganz spannend. Da gab's früher schon immer die Problematik, dass es bestimmte Autos beispielsweise gab, bei denen die Leitungen so verlegt waren, dass Du in der Lage warst, an 'ner bestimmten Stelle zu bohren, also in die Karosserie zu bohren und dann konntest Du auf einmal den Canbus mit snippen. Das heißt, Du hattest auf einmal die Möglichkeit In dem Ohr. In dem hattest die Möglichkeit, in dem Auto Nachrichten, die unverschlüsselt waren, weil niemand auf die Idee gekommen ist, dass da überhaupt jemand drankäme, mit mitzuhören und am Ende zum Beispiel rauszubekommen, was in dem Auto genau passiert oder sogar das Auto fernzusteuern, das Auto aufzuschließen oder, oder, oder. Von daher, je nachdem, in welchem System wir da unterwegs sind, haben wir natürlich verschiedenste Sicherheitsanforderungen und das kann weniger bis sehr, sehr gravierend sein.\n\nJe nachdem Grade wenn wir in Autos, Flugzeugen oder sonst wo unterwegs sind, dann ist das natürlich äußerst wichtig, dass wir drei- oder vier- oder fünfmal abgesichert sind und die Sachen, die wir da machen, auch dementsprechend halt meistens gar nicht mal irgendwie auf dem allerneusten Stand sind, also nicht die neueste Technologie nutzen, sondern grade in Steuergeräten ist es zum Beispiel so, wenn ich irgendwo im Maschinenbau unterwegs bin und 'n Robotersystem oder so was hab oder sone SPS Steuerung für Maschinen, dann sind die auf super, also für mich, superalten Architekturen aufgebaut, weil diese Chips dann eben Service haben für 10, für 20 Jahre. Dann ist es eigentlich längst möglich, mit viel, viel mehr Ressourcen zu arbeiten, aber man sagt sich, wir bleiben lieber bei dem System, weil da sind wir, das ist sicher, das haben wir getestet. Das ist jetzt auch lange unterstützt. Und das heißt, wir haben im Vergleich zum Web, wo ich auch sagen würde, da hast Du wieder ganz andere Probleme, was Sicherheit angeht, schon auch relativ hohe Sicherheitsanforderungen bei Applikationen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber trotzdem, wie sieht denn sone Security Architektur aus, wenn mein Angreifer im Worst Case der Zugriff auf auf alles hat, so. Er kann er kann mein Binary nehmen und irgendwie dekompilieren, er kann meinen Traffic vielleicht mitlesen, er kann meine Verschlüsselung aushebeln, weil er die Zertifikate aus den Systemen kennt. Gibt's da überhaupt dann Sicherheit oder beschränkt sich das quasi nur auf, na ja, wir versuchen halt, ne, wie Du grade gesagt hast, dass jemand, der den Traffic jetzt mitlesen will, das vielleicht nicht unbedingt kann oder dass sich kein zusätzlicher Teilnehmer irgendwie in dieses Netzwerk, in diese Infrastruktur mit reinklingt, aber also am Ende, wenn jemand Zugriff auf alles hat, kann man sich ja kaum dagegen wehren, oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist leider sehr häufig so, ja. Also Du kannst immer irgendwie damit arbeiten, natürlich irgendwie verschlüsselt unterwegs zu sein an ganz vielen Stellen. Wir haben bei uns zum Beispiel tatsächlich 'n Mastermodul, wo die Idee ist, das nennt sich Reverse Engineering. Und da kriegst Du einfach 'n riesiges beziehungsweise kriegst 'n riesigen Codeabschnitt, aber eben nicht als Code, sondern eben eigentlich nur als Nullen und Einsen. Und dann musst Du das dekompilieren und musst rauskriegen, was das eigentlich tut.\n\nUnd innerhalb von einem Semester schaffen das, normalerweise Studierende so in 'ner Gruppe von 7 bis 10 Leuten komplett rauszukriegen, wie das System funktioniert, welche Funktionen wo benutzt wurden, welche Texte wann wie wo geprinted wurden. Das heißt, das ist schon, wenn Du ohne Verschlüsselung arbeitest, relativ leicht möglich, am Ende son Gerät komplett nachzubauen und rauszukriegen, was das eigentlich tut. Aber da kannst Du dich ja quasi fast nirgendwo groß gegen wehren.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also ich denk da so an an Industrieanlagen oder so was oder jetzt, weiß nicht, Flugzeugsteuergeräte, keine Ahnung was, wo das ja auch einfach 'n 'n Betriebsgeheimnis sein kann, was da drauf ist, so, ja. Und jetzt verkaufe ich, weiß nicht, Airbus, hier mein Steuergerät und dann gucken die sich an, sagen, ja danke, wir kaufen genau 1 und die anderen 999, die wir brauchen, die machen wir selbst, so. Also da da kam das grade so her, weißt\n\nSpeaker 3: Du? Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Jetzt ist son bisschen aber die Frage, wie viel Aufwand Du wirklich investieren kannst und willst, son komplexes Gerät am Ende nachzubauen. Das ist mit Sicherheit an vielen Stellen möglich, aber meistens mit sonem hohen Aufwand verbunden, dass es wieder nicht mehr rentabel wird.\n\nSpeaker 3: Okay. Ich hab\n\nSpeaker 2: da leider so ein Beispiel, was mir persönlich immer sehr wehtut. Unsere Studierende kriegen von uns häufig 'n Logic Analyzer an die Hand. Das ist 'n Gerät von, ich kann die Firma nie aussprechen, ich glaub, sie heißt SALAEE. Und dieses Gerät kostet, wenn Du das bei denen kaufst, irgendwas die, ich glaube, 500 Euro. Die Software von denen dazu ist kostenlos.\n\nJetzt schließt Du das per USB an deinen Computer an, das Gerät erkennt, was Du da hast, dann kannst Du damit an deinen Aufbau gehen und kannst rauskriegen, wo welche Signale grade high und low sind. Interpretiert dir das und sagt dir welche Messages? Also ja, kannst Du auch für Böses einsetzen, aber auch schön für Gutes. Jetzt gibt's andere Hersteller, die genau dieses Gerät einfach nachgebaut haben und das kriegst Du auf Amazon, ich glaube, für 10 oder 15 Euro. Die Software gibt's aber ja kostenlos, weil der Hersteller ja so nett ist und sagt, na ja, Du brauchst ja unser Gerät dafür.\n\nDas heißt, diese Hardware Piraterie, die da im im im im Umlauf ist, tut mir immer sehr, sehr weh, weil ich einerseits natürlich denke, das sollte nicht so sein. Ich find's aber wieder schön für die Studierenden und deshalb empfehl ich ihnen trotzdem, immer sich so was zu kaufen, weil die sich für 10 oder 15 Euro zu Hause so was hinlegen können und damit arbeiten können, weil niemand kann sich das einfach so mal während des Studiums leisten. Und ist jetzt auch leider nicht so, dass wir im Labor die Kapazität hätten für jeden Studierenden bei uns, einfach mal son Gerät hinzustellen, sondern wir haben davon dann auch nur 2 oder 3 Stück. Also man muss das immer mit sonem lachenden weinenden Auge sehen, aber es ist immer relativ schwierig, Produkte zu schützen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Du hast vorhin auch angesprochen, dass diese Produkte ja teilweise Jahre und Jahrzehnte unterstützt werden. Wie sieht denn da son Upgrade Pfad aus? Also wenn ich jetzt 10000 Steuergeräte an VW geliefert hab und die sind alle verbaut, wie wie werden die denn geupdatet? Da kommt ja kein VW Mechaniker, stöbst mir seinen Laptop an mein Auto an und und und update das dann.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist auch so was, was sich über viele, viele Jahrzehnte jetzt entwickelt hat. Ganz früher war das natürlich noch so, wenn wir eine Waschmaschine hatten, dann war in der Waschmaschine fest eingebrannt irgendwo einen. Da wurde mein Code draufgebrannt und den musste ich auch nie wieder ändern. Über die Jahre hat sich das dann aber son bisschen verändert, wenn man dann gemerkt hat, hey, es wär vielleicht gar nicht so schlecht in der Lage zu sein, Updates fahren zu können. Teilweise auch wieder zu 'nem negativen Teil, wenn man sich überlegt, dass ich mir einen Auto kaufen kann heutzutage, was eigentlich schon alle Features verbaut hat, hardwareseitig.\n\nDas heißt, meine Sitzheizung und was auch immer ist schon da. Ist aber nicht freigeschaltet, weil die Software da quasi geblockt ist. Und ich kann dann quasi über 'n Update nachfahren. Das heißt, heute ist das auch wieder alles irgendwie, alles ist ans Internet angebunden. Zwischenschritt war noch, ich musste früher zu 'nem Techniker fahren, ich musste dann in die VW Werkstatt fahren und musste mir dann da von 'nem Techniker am Ende 'n Update machen lassen, damit das Steuergerät auf dem neuesten Stand ist.\n\nWar das nicht sogar bei dieser ganzen Abgasskandalgeschichte so, da ist ja relativ blut publik gewesen, da mussten ja viele Leute mit den Autos dann auf einmal zum Hersteller. Also da hat sich auch die Welt irgendwie son bisschen verändert und ich glaube, heute ist es diese Mikrocontroller Welt gar nicht mehr so weit weg von dieser Web Welt. Und wir lernen, wir haben in den letzten 10 Jahren sehr, sehr viel gelernt von dem, was eben im im Web und überhaupt auf auf normalen Computern unterwegs ist und haben das versucht, irgendwie auf Mikrocontroller zu abstrahieren.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ist das auch son Teil von dieser IoT Bubble, die dann da quasi einfach mitgekommen ist, dadurch, dass mehr von dieser Hardware einfach auch kontinuierlich Netzanschluss hat und sich selber updaten kann im Zweifelsfall?\n\nSpeaker 2: Auf jeden Fall, ja. Also diese ganze, dadurch, dass heute alles irgendwie 'n Netz hat, ob das jetzt 'n Internet ist, 'n Intranet oder wo auch immer es angebunden ist, hab ich natürlich viel mehr Möglichkeit. Und das haben jetzt mittlerweile, glaub ich, auch viele Hersteller, viele Firmen eingesehen, dass das am Ende mehr Vorteile als Nachteile bringt, wenn ich vernetzt bin.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mein Kühlschrank zu Hause hat übrigens 'n Mikrofon für seine Software Updates\n\nSpeaker 2: und dann kriegst Du sone kleine App und die macht\n\nSpeaker 1: dann son bisschen wie so Modemusik und Du musst das quasi an den Kühlschrank halten und dann spricht die mit dem Kühlschrank quasi so auf Probleme,\n\nSpeaker 0: ne. Pizza über,\n\nSpeaker 1: nichts zu tun. Das klingt richtig abgefahren. Aber es hat schon hat schon funktioniert.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, das kann der Kühlschrank jetzt mehr.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das weiß ich nicht, aber er kann auf alle Fälle auch in die andere Richtung kommunizieren, wenn Du so, Du kannst son Diagnosedampf quasi von dem Kühlschrank ziehen und dann fängt der an so zu pfeifen wie 'n Modem und die hört das quasi mit und den Code, das dann wieder in der Nähe, keine Ahnung.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das war die effizienteste Art vom Hersteller zu sagen, so implementieren wir Damenübertragungen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich weiß nicht, was vor 10 Jahren Bluetooth Chips gekostet haben oder so was, ja, aber offensichtlich. Ja. Das ist\n\nSpeaker 2: ja so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ist am Rand, ist son kleiner Spot, ist so markiert mit sonem kleinen Kreis, son kleiner Lautsprecher, 'n Mikrofon hinten dran, steht so, hier bitte dranhalten und los geht's. Ja. Abgefahren. Ja, geht auch ohne 5 g.\n\nSpeaker 2: Okay, kennt ihr das noch vor den Telefonen von früher? Wenn man quasi eine eine Taste drückt, dann kommt ja ein spezifischer Ton. Ja. Und das bei jeder Taste. Das der Ton wiederum setzt sich aus bestimmten Frequenzen ja zusammen, die dann quasi wieder demoduliert werden und auf der anderen Seite sagen, hey, da will ich eigentlich hin.\n\nJa. Es ist schon cool, dass Sie das immer\n\nSpeaker 1: noch festgestellt haben, sind wir halt genug, so was zu kennen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber überhaupt cool, dass Du 'n Update für den Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui\n\nSpeaker 1: ShuiHEN. Ich war das einfach mal ausprobiert. Ich hab keine Ahnung, was da jetzt passiert, ob das Eiswürfelfach jetzt besser performt oder was Du weißt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, cool. Ja, nee, es ist verrückt. Also man macht sich ja tatsächlich im Alltag irgendwie wirklich Gedanken, aber wert wert zu sprechen und man irgendwie, also ich glaub, es gibt halt diese riesige Bandbreite, ne, aber\n\nSpeaker 2: ich hab hinter mir gerade diese Lichtschalter zum Beispiel, wo ich auch denke, ja, okay, die sind ja auch irgendwo gesteuert, da ist eine kleine LED dran, die aufleuchtet und\n\nSpeaker 0: irgendwie Rückmeldungen gibt, ob das jetzt grade angeschaltet oder nicht. Das heißt ja, da jedem Ding sitzt ja wahrscheinlich auch wie ein kleiner Mikrocontroller, der das irgendwie steuert.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und das geht sogar dann auch in eine richtig spannende Richtung, weil da kann man dann wieder über Energy Harvesting reden. Es gibt diese Teile tatsächlich von Herstellern, ohne dass die irgendeine eigene Energiespeicherart haben. Das heißt, Du drückst aufn Schalter und Du jagst durch das auf den Schalter drücken, 'n kleinen Metallkern, durch eine Spule und es wird genau so viel Energie induziert, eine Nachricht abzusenden. Das ist schon irgendwie genial.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Und irgendwie auch 'n bisschen ineffizient, weil dann ja jeder Schalter sein eigenes Kraftwerk mitbringen muss.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, aber gleichzeitig wiederum keinen Energiespeicher, was wieder heißt, wir haben nicht ständig irgendwo Lithium Ionen Akkus oder so, die überbleiben, wenn so was dann mal wegkommt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Gut, die hängen ja, hängen am KNX, oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Unsere Schalter.\n\nSpeaker 0: Diese Schalter hängen jetzt an 'nem Kabel, ja, das ist richtig, ja. Sind aber dadurch auch wieder angreifbar von außen, was wir ja auch schon hatten. Ja. Wo wir nicht mehr unser Licht, nee, war da ist das, ich weiß gar nicht, ob das komplette Licht ausgefallen, ob die alle Schalter ausgefallen sind. Kannst Du dich da noch dran erinnern?\n\nNee, die Heizung, ne. Also ich glaub, ja, egal. Sicherheit und so. Da war noch ein\n\nSpeaker 2: Port offen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich hab hier noch auf meine Liste Dennis sein Lieblingsthema. Oh. Da müssen wir auch noch drüber reden, oder? Was ist dein Lieblingsthema?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ganz viele Lieblingsthemen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Komm schon, enttäusch mich nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ei.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sehr gut. Ja. AI ist ja überall. Mhm. So.\n\nUnd ich würde mir vorstellen, dass das erst mal so auf embedded devices ziemlich schwierig ist, weil quasi keine Rechenpower. Ist es dann son Feld, wo man versucht, mit dedizierter Hardware da irgendwas zu, möglichst zu machen? Oder ist das eher, wo man sagt, so, nee, das das machen wir gar nicht hier so am richtigen Edge Edge, sondern verschieben das halt irgendwo anders hin und arbeiten dann nur mit den Ergebnissen davon weiter?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist, würd ich sagen, nicht zu 100 Prozent alles in der Cloud. Also wir haben durchaus einiges, was auch irgendwie auf auf dem Gerät selbst auf dem Edge Device läuft. Das läuft normalerweise dann extra über irgendwelche TPUs. Also ich hab da Tender Processing Units, das ist quasi wie eine GPU, wie man's von Grafikkarten vom Computer kennt, eben aber spezialisiert auf diese Tensoroperationen, die eigentlich eben für diese ganzen AI Modelle notwendig sind. Und das größte Problem, was ich eine Restriktion eigentlich habe in dem System, ist der Speicher.\n\nWeil ich einfach am Ende irgendwie mein Modell laden muss und das irgendwo auf meinem haben. Wenn ich da als 8 Gigabyte hab und ich hab aber am Ende irgendwie son Netz, was ich da drauf packen will, was irgendwie aus 'n paar Millionen Parametern besteht, dann kann man sich hochrechnen, wenn ein Parameter 16 Bit oder 32 Bit Floads wahrscheinlich eher 32 Bit Floads sind, dann kostet mich da sehr, sehr viel Speicher. Und dann läuft das meistens da dafür hin, dass sich so Netze dann einerseits beschneiden muss. Das heißt, ich trenn die quasi an bestimmten Stellen einfach ab und ich mach die dümmer. Das heißt, ich nutz eben am Ende irgendwie keine Floating Points, sondern ich nutz am Ende irgendwie Zahlen, bei denen ich nur noch 8 Bit oder so was fürn Speicher brauche, also Festpunktzahlen.\n\nUnd bei denen hab ich dann eben am Ende weniger Intelligenz in Anführungszeichen, aber eben trotzdem noch mein Modell irgendwie, was ich eigentlich haben wollte.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und was sind das so für Use Cases, wo AI relevant ist?\n\nSpeaker 2: Puh, das geht von bis. Es gibt mittlerweile Chiphersteller, die ihre eigenen Tpus eben mit verbaut haben für bestimmte Use Cases, wie zum Beispiel Kameras, in denen schon direkt 'n AI Modul mit drinnen sitzt. Und Du kannst mit diesem Kameradevice am Ende schon eine Objekterkennung machen. Und dann hast Du eben eine sehr, sehr viel schnellere Datenverarbeitung, als ständig irgendwie den Stream irgendwohin jagen zu müssen, den noch verarbeiten. Das kostet dich alles am Ende irgendwie Traffic Zeit und so weiter.\n\nAlso das gibt's auf jeden Fall.\n\nSpeaker 3: Hab ich\n\nSpeaker 0: in meinem Keller. Echt? Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Was erkennst Du so in deinem Keller?\n\nSpeaker 0: Nicht l l ms, aber AI, also den Wasserzähler. Also da ist 'n kleiner ESP mit 'ner Kamera drauf und der macht aber die Texterkennung von dem von dem Kamerabild on device und schickt dann nur den Wert per was auch immer.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das klingt ähnlich effizient\n\nSpeaker 1: wie mein Kühlschrank.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie wie will ich das denn sonst machen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, Du kommst ja nicht an die Stärke,\n\nSpeaker 0: sonst kommst Du kommst nicht an die Wasserzähler und Du kommst nicht, also sonst muss Du halt das Kamerabild übertragen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Gibt gibt's heutzutage keine smarten Wasserzähler? Ich hab keine Ahnung. Ja, aber Also es gibt ja schon smarte Stromzähler, also gibt's bestimmt auch smarte Wasserzähler oder? Ist nur noch einfacher.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber da kommst Du nicht dran. Interessanterweise, wo Du das grade so sagst mit den Piepen, ist ja ähnlich ähnlich spannend. Also die smarten Stromzähler, die übertragen das per Infrarot. Ja. Also was ja auch eine interessante Schnittstelle irgendwie ist, die zu nutzen, da nicht 'n Kabel reinzustecken.\n\nSpeaker 2: Da muss ich immer an den ehemaligen Gameboy denken, der oben diese Infrarot Schnittstelle hat und dann\n\nSpeaker 3: muss man\n\nSpeaker 2: Das hat bei mir nie funktioniert. Weil niemandem hat das funktioniert.\n\nSpeaker 0: Vielleicht war da nie 1 drin.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, okay, Dennis guckt seinen Wasserzähler mit E-SPären. Was was gibt's noch?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also auf jeden Fall, da wo wir's ganz viel eingesetzt haben in den letzten Jahren, ist, es gibt eine eigene Plattform von Nvidia, die nennt sich Chadson. Und das sind quasi, kann man sich 'n bisschen vorstellen, wie Raspberry Pis auf Steroiden. Da hab ich quasi dann am Ende schon meinen meinen ganz normalen Mikroprozessor und alles drauf, quasi 'n Einplatinencomputer, aber eben zusätzlich halt einen Prozessor noch eben für diese für diese AI Berechnung. Und die sind wahnsinnig potent geworden, da gibt's quasi vorn bis. Und wir haben das Teil bei uns zum Beispiel auf 'ner autonomen vorhandenen Auto im Maßstab 1 zu 10 benutzt und wir konnten damit komplett unsere Schilderkennung, unsere Straßenlinienerkennung, unsere Verhaltenslogik in 'nem AI Modell abbilden, also wirklich auch mehrere Modelle, die wir parallel laufen lassen konnten.\n\nEs gibt tatsächlich mehr als nur LLMs, auch wenn viele Menschen mittlerweile bei AI nur noch an LLMs denken. Aber grade so was wie eine Bilderkennung oder so ist ja eigentlich, das gibt's schon seit seit vielen, vielen 10 10, 20, 30 Jahren oder so. Die Hardware musste nur erst mal potent genug werden und dann kamen auf einmal LLMs und alle haben vergessen, was eigentlich drunter steckt. Aber genau, im autonomen Fahren also dementsprechend und auch wenn ich in son echtes autonomes Fahrzeug oder so hab, autonom in Anführungszeichen, wir sind da ja nur auf 'nem bestimmten Grad, aber da stecken auch wieder keine richtigen Computer drinne, sondern das sind eigentlich ja eher wieder solche Devices, die darauf ausgelegt sind, diese Jobs da dann sinnvoll zu machen. Das heißt, eigentlich hab ich eher wieder 'n Mikrocomputersystem, was in 'ner bestimmten Art und Weise gepimpt wurde und dann eben zum Beispiel für meine Schilderkennung in meinem Tesla oder so zuständig ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wenn Du jetzt son Beispiel nimmst, wie das das autonome Fahrzeugarm, was dort ist, ist das dann komplett alles in dem Bereich von euch und von, weil das weil das dann dort auf den Mikrocontrollern läuft. Also gerade so einfach nur die Vorstellung, okay, die normale Informatik in Anführungsstrichen oder ne, wo ist da der Zugang? Also braucht man da, Algorithmen zu entwickeln, beispielsweise was zu erkennen oder so? Ist das dann eher was aus der Informatik kommt oder ohne eine Logik zu machen, eine Entscheidung zu treffen, fahr jetzt nach links und nicht nach rechts? Ist das dann im Bereich, der außerhalb sozusagen von den liegt oder also ist auch in der in der in der Wirtschaft sozusagen\n\nSpeaker 2: das in diesem Bereich drin oder ist das jetzt\n\nSpeaker 0: bei euch, weil es gut passt, das in dem Umfeld zu implementieren?\n\nSpeaker 2: Es kommt 'n bisschen drauf an, in welchem Anwendungsbereich man irgendwann landet. Wenn ich jetzt bei 'nem Staubsaugerroboterhersteller zum Beispiel lande, dann wird vermutlich alles, was ich in sonem Staubsaugerroboter habe, ja irgendwie als abgebildet, programmiert werden müssen. Das heißt, ich hab da eben bestimmte Sensorik, ich hab da eine bestimmte Verhaltenslogik drinnen und das muss ich ja irgendwie alles auf dieses Device bekommen. Also ich zumindest will nicht, dass mein Roborock, so wie er bei uns zu Hause heißt, irgendwie nach Hause telefoniert und ständig irgendwie meine Daten irgendwo hinschickt, sondern das soll im besten Fall alles auf dem Gerät passieren. Ich glaube, das, was wir in machen, hat 'n sehr großen Schnitt mit dem auch von der normalen Kerninformatik, wie man's kennt, also auch von der Implementierung auf auf herkömmlichen Computern.\n\nMan hat eben nur diese Besonderheiten, die vielleicht wie wenig Speicher oder teilweise weniger Rechenkapazität, die eben bei sonem dazu kommen. Aber an sich, Algorithmik, na ja, muss ich genauso machen wie wie auf 'nem normalen Computer auch. Meinen Speicher Sachen ablegen, Sachen wieder rausladen, muss ich auf jedem Device ähnlich machen. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wir haben son bisschen schon über diesen Update oder mangelnden Updateprozess gesprochen, wie das funktionieren kann. Aber wie funktioniert denn son Deployment überhaupt? Also wenn ich hier mal unsere Webanwendung wieder als Vergleich nehm, dann weiß nicht, wenn ich super Hipster unterwegs bin, dann pack ich meinen Code irgendwie in 'n Docker Container, schieb den irgendwohin und dann dann läuft der so. Aber wenn ihr jetzt oder oder keine Ahnung, absetzt von von dem Uni, wir bleiben bei deinem Staubsauger. Jetzt hat da irgendjemand den den Quertext für diesen Staubsauger gesprochen geschrieben und da gehört ja auch wahrscheinlich son sehr custom Hardware Stack mit dazu, weil die nehmen ja wahrscheinlich nicht irgendwie hier den Arduino von der Stange und löten den dann in den Roboter rein, sondern die haben ja wahrscheinlich 'n sehr angepasstes Setup.\n\nUnd wo kommt das denn eigentlich am Ende her? Also muss ich mir dann, weiß nicht, meine 500 besten Mitarbeiter nehmen und alle löten in Kleinarbeit das so betschweise zusammen? Oder wo geh ich hin und sag, hier, hier ist mein Plan, bitte bau mir das mal so in in Kleinserien, in Großserien oder wie wie funktioniert da die Fertigung dazu?\n\nSpeaker 2: Na ja, am Ende ist es leider nicht, sobald Du anfängst, Hardware als als Ebene mit dazu zu bauen, hast Du auf einmal sehr viel weniger Flexibilität. Weil bei Software haben wir mit CICD normalerweise die Möglichkeit, relativ easy irgendwie mal schnell Hotfix auszuspielen oder eine Version von Software zu verändern. Das geht leider nicht so ganz, wenn Du auf einmal sagst, ups, sie, ich hab vergessen, eine Leiterbahn ziehen. Da kann ich jetzt gar kein Signal drauflegen, dann muss ich eben einen neuen Prototypen erstellen. Ich hab in der Vergangenheit auch mal 'n paar Jahre in dem in 'nem Ingenieurbüro gearbeitet und da hatten wir eben genau die Situation, dass wir vom Kunden ungefähr jede Woche, maximal alle 2 Wochen, einen neuen Prototypen zugeschickt bekommen haben.\n\nDas heißt, wir mussten immer wieder für die Software, die wir für das Ding entwickelt haben, diesen Prototypen dann auspacken, mussten uns das irgendwie mit 'nem 3D Drucker, mit 'nem Modell und so irgendwie zusammenkleben, dass wir quasi unsere Platine da hatten und alle Punkte, auf denen wir irgendwie Zugang brauchten, konnten dafür entwickeln. Und nach ein oder 2 Wochen durften wir uns das dann wieder neu zusammenbauen. Und so hat das quasi immer und immer wieder mit 'ner neuen Revision den denselben Prozess irgendwie gehabt. Das ist supersuperanstrengend, wenn Du noch nicht weit im Entwicklungsprozess bist. Das heißt, wenn sich noch viel an der Hardware ändern kann.\n\nUnd dann musst Du ständig irgendwie deine Architektur umwerfen, weil Du merkst, ups, jetzt hat sich hier wieder das geändert, das hat wieder Einfluss auf das. Das heißt, Du hast einfach eine Ebene mehr mit drinnen, die halt irgendwie Probleme machen kann.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber okay, das das ist ja aber noch in soner sehr frühen Phase.\n\nSpeaker 3: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber wenn ich jetzt wirklich glaube, fertig zu sein damit irgendwann mal, wer also wer wer baut mir das denn dann? Gibt's da so Standardauftragsfertigiger, wo ich so hingehen kann und sagen kann, okay, guck mal, hier ist hier ist meine Software, hier ist mein mein Zeitplan und mein Set-up so. Könnt ihr mir 1000 Stück davon machen oder muss ich all diese Komponenten irgendwie einzeln kaufen und das dann selber als Teil von meiner eigenen Fertigung herstellen? Wie wie läuft das im großen Maßstab?\n\nSpeaker 2: Es kommt 'n bisschen darauf an, ob Du jetzt als Jan fragst oder als Hersteller 1 Produktes, der das Ganze als Serie verkaufen möchte. Mhm. Wahrscheinlich eher als Hersteller. Und da würdest Du dementsprechend wahrscheinlich Dienstleister mit einbinden, die eben für dich das Produkt am Ende herstellen. Das heißt, wenn Du dein PCB, deine Platine soweit geplant hast, dass da alles irgendwie drauf passt, dann wirst Du das wahrscheinlich nicht bei uns in Deutschland herstellen, weil das relativ unlukrativ ist, sondern wirst das vermutlich irgendwo in Asien herstellen lassen.\n\nIch persönlich lasse normalerweise mein Zeug immer bei JLC PCB herstellen. Das geht relativ schnell. Da hab ich innerhalb von 1 Woche wird das in China gefertigt, dauert ein bis 2 Tage. Dann wird das mit DHL Express hier rübergeschifft und dann hab ich nach 1 Woche meine 5 Platinen hier. Dann kann ich mit diesen 5 Platinen testen, dann kann ich\n\nSpeaker 1: Für so Mengen lohnt sich das schon?\n\nSpeaker 2: Tatsächlich ist das wahnsinnig günstig. Man denkt es nicht, aber Du kannst dir 5 Platinen für 2 Dollar herstellen lassen, wenn die im Bereich von 100 mal 100 Millimeter sind, also 10 mal 10 Zentimeter, was ist. Krass. Und das Ist technisch höher. Ja.\n\nAber dementsprechend musst Du trotzdem eine Woche Minimum drauf warten, bis das Ding später bei dir liegt, teilweise pick of\n\nSpeaker 3: the day. Ich hab tatsächlich jetzt Na ja,\n\nSpeaker 2: aber ich mein, wenn Dennis\n\nSpeaker 1: jetzt einen Schalter selber machen will oder so was, weißt Du, und Du baust dir das zusammen und Du willst jetzt für dein Haus, weißte nicht, 100 Stück oder so was davon davon haben? Das kriegst Du ja dann easy damit hin.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, wird sogar je mehr Du machst, desto günstiger wird das, weil die haben natürlich riesige Maschinen, in denen die das herstellen. Und je mehr die da auf einmal irgendwie auf eine Platte packen können, desto günstiger wird das für alle. Bei uns ist das jetzt momentan leider aber mal wieder der Punkt,\n\nSpeaker 3: ich hab grade erst bestellt\n\nSpeaker 2: letzte Woche und meine Bestellung ist jetzt grade in Leipzig beim Zoll hängen geblieben. Jetzt muss ich denen wieder erklären, was ich denn da eigentlich Kryptisches bestellt habe, weil die sich wundern, was sind\n\nSpeaker 1: Warum sind Bauteile?\n\nSpeaker 2: Tatsächlich ist das 1 der Punkte, weshalb das immer wieder aufgehalten wird, weil Angst besteht, was könnte da grade irgendwo ins Land kommen? Aber Du würdest normalerweise dir also 'n Dienstleister suchen, der dir irgendwie das PCB herstellt. Du würdest dir im besten Fall 'n Dienstleister suchen, der eine Bestückung für dich herstellt. Ich hab jetzt grade erst\n\nSpeaker 1: Was ist die Bestückung?\n\nSpeaker 2: Die Teile müssen ja irgendwie, also Mikrocontroller, Kondensatoren, alles Mögliche an Teilen muss ja irgendwie dadrauf gelötet werden. Das willst Du nicht per Hand machen, auf gar keinen Fall. Ich hab jetzt grade gelernt in Grünberg hier bei uns in der Nähe Bänder hat anscheinend die neueste, modernste Bestückungsanlage Europas. Da hatt ich grade eine Werksführung und das ist schon beeindruckt, diese\n\nSpeaker 1: Maschinen, die von oben aus sind wie so Riesentacker und dann so, das einfach auf deinem Board.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, genau. Das, wobei es sieht sogar aus, als hättest Du 'n riesiges Schlauchsystem, wo einfach quasi von vorne das die Platinen durchgehen und Du hast 'n Robotersystem an der Seite, was in großen Rollen die Teile reinsteckt und austauschen kann, Magazine. Und da gehen wirklich riesige Magazinrollen rein und\n\nSpeaker 1: Du hast sonst nicht mitgenommen zu soner Führung.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich war selber froh, ich dass dass ich da sein durfte. Aber ich war fasziniert, dass das bei uns hier in der Nähe Wie\n\nSpeaker 0: viele Videopodcast machen, demnächst. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Neues Format. Ja, ich war wirklich fasziniert, dass das bei uns hier in der Nähe in sonem großen Maßstab gemacht wird, weil das eben sonst eigentlich sich nicht lohnt, in Deutschland großartig sone sone Herstellung zu machen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber wahrscheinlich für Kleinserien dann trotzdem nicht relevant wäre.\n\nSpeaker 2: Für Kleinserien ist Also wir haben jetzt netterweise den Kontakt mit denen und die haben uns dann angeboten als Hochschule dürfen wir da durchaus auch immer vorbeikommen. Ansonsten würde aber auch das wahrscheinlich irgendwo in in in Asien oder so passieren. Alles meiste ist natürlich automatisiert, das heißt, dafür gibt's wieder extra Anlagen. Du kannst sogar auch bei JLC, wenn Du deine Platine herstellst, die sogar einseitig schon bestücken lassen. Also selbst das geht bei denen mittlerweile ziemlich automatisiert.\n\nDa musst Du halt noch 'n bisschen sagen, welche Teile Du haben willst, dann gucken die, welche da halt vorrätig sind und dann dann hast Du deinen ersten Prototypen. Und dann kannst Du da quasi deine eigene deine eigene Heizungssteuerung bauen, deine eigene Thermostat, dein eigenes, was auch immer Du dir vorstellst, das ist ja das Coole, deshalb liebe ich das, was wir machen. Das ist 'n bisschen wie Lego für Erwachsene. Also Lego ist auch für Erwachsene, aber es ist quasi dieses Erschaffende, was ja auch bei Lego der Fall ist, dass Du quasi was kreieren kannst, was eigentlich gar nicht da war. Und Du hast eine Idee?\n\nJa, dann bau's dir halt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also so so bin ich da auch tatsächlich mal zugekommen,\n\nSpeaker 2: weil ich vor, oh Gott, wann\n\nSpeaker 1: haben wir angefangen, das Haus zu planen, so vor 15 Jahren oder so? 12,\n\nSpeaker 2: 15, 12.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wollte ich meine Heizdrucksteuerung selber bauen, weil ich dachte so, okay, da da das son relativ überschaubares Problem, son Drehregler irgendwie ansteuern und 'n Thermostat dazu und dann schauen, dass das irgendwie alles funktioniert. Dann hab ich das auch so zusammen bekommen mit sonem Arduino und sonem Brettboard und so, wie das dann halt irgendwie alles mal läuft. Und dann war aber so dieses, ja, wie kriege ich jetzt aber, weiß nicht, 20 Stück von diesen Dingern halt irgendwie hergestellt und dachte, okay, niemals macht mir das ja irgendeiner in der Menge, ja. Ja. Und ich kann nicht den Arduino in die Wand verputzen bei mir so, ja.\n\nDas ist jetzt irgendwie auch nicht pragmatisch, aber wenn das heutzutage so geht in kleinserien, ist echt abgefahren.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, total. Also das wär dann genau für dich die Lösung gewesen, weder teuer noch groß aufwendig Und macht wahnsinnig viel Spaß, das zu bauen, weil Du eben auch dann am Computer wieder in in CAD das Ganze zeichnen kannst. Und dann ist das eben auch wieder son son schaffender Prozess, dass Du das alles so kreierst, deine kleine Stadt aufbaust, die Teile jeweils positionierst und gucken musst, die müssen natürlich dann an bestimmten Positionen sein, damit bestimmte Effekte irgendwie vermieden werden und, und, und. Also das ist 'n superspannendes Thema, alleine da wieder irgendwie reinzutauchen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Gibt es da Software, die mir helfen kann?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Gibt es taugliche, weiß ich nicht, Simulatoren oder Validatoren oder so was, wo ich mein Layout hingeben kann, sagen kann, okay, funktioniert das überhaupt so, wie ich das haben will?\n\nSpeaker 2: Du hast im Normalfall in soner Software auch immer schon 'n Checker mit drin, 'n Error Checker, der überprüft, ob Du irgendwelche groben Fehler gemacht hast. Das heißt, ob bestimmte Leiterbahnen an bestimmten anderen Leiterbahnen liegen und da nicht liegen dürften oder, oder, oder. Das heißt, im Normalfall, wenn, ich persönlich benutz jetzt gerne Keycard, aber es gibt dafür auch dann Eagle oder irgendwelche andere professionelle Software eben zum zum Zeichnen von Platinen. Und da hast Du auch immer bestimmte Validierungssoftware schon mit drinnen verbaut, die drauf achtet, dass Du keine groben Schnitzer machst. Nichtsdestotrotz läuft's meistens auf mehrere Revisionen hinaus.\n\nAlso man macht Fehler, was leider auch bei uns im Forschungsprojekt ständig passiert, dass grade wenn Studierende einfach so was eben planen und haben, die haben noch nicht die Erfahrung, müssen sie ja auch nicht haben, aber dann kommen halt mehr Iterationsprozesse rein, weil Du halt doch auf einmal merkst, der Pin ist falsch angesteuert worden und jetzt ist die komplette Platine hin, weil da hätte gar keinen Strom liegen dürfen oder keine Spannung anliegen dürfen. Nee.\n\nSpeaker 0: Du hast grad schon wieder simulatoren genannt oder simulieren genannt. Wir wollen ja auch noch auf ein Projekt zu sprechen kommen, was Du, glaube ich, mit gestartet hast oder zumindest stark involviert warst. Wobei kann das denn helfen und was, wo geht's da bei Micro oder ist es deutsch? Mikro?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, also wir versuchen's als Micro auszusprechen. Okay. Ja, das ist mein kleines Baby. Das hab ich vor, ich glaube, 3 Jahren mittlerweile, 20 22 haben wir das gestartet, eben weil ich die Erfahrungen gemacht habe einerseits in der Industrie, dass es kein schöner Prozess war, immer wieder neue Prototypen zu bekommen und die dann quasi zugeschickt bekommen zu müssen per Post, dann damit arbeiten zu können. Und andererseits, weil wir während Corona gemerkt haben, dass die Ausbildung von unseren Studierenden hart darunter gelitten hat, dass man eben nicht mehr in Labore kam.\n\nWenn ich normalerweise für Softwareentwicklung nur 'n Computer brauche, hier aber jetzt ständig die Restriktion hab, dass ich einen Board, 'n Mikrocontroller bohrt oder bestimmte Peripherie brauche, dann muss ich das irgendwie remote verfügbar machen. Und die Grundidee von Micro, übrigens erreichbar über Micro Punkt t m Punkt d e, ist, dass wir Versuchsaufbauten für unsere Studierenden komplett digital zur Verfügung stellen. Das heißt, ich hab da ganz, ganz viel netterweise von Lothum gelernt immer wieder. Ich bin sehr dankbar in den letzten Jahren wirklich ganz viel von eurer Kompetenz mitgenommen zu haben, weil zum Beispiel unsere App, die wir dann da haben, eben in Viewjs gebaut ist, weil ich keine Ahnung davon habe und dann natürlich bei euch gemerkt hab, ihr habt genau davon Ahnung. Also bin ich natürlich auch auf das Wert aufgesprungen.\n\nDie Idee von Micro ist jetzt eben, dass wir in einem bestimmten Microcube, den wir haben, das ist einfach son geschlossenes Würfelsystem, dass wir da quasi einen Versuch drinnen haben und diese Würfel quasi replizieren können. Von diesen Würfeln haben wir mittlerweile bei uns an der Hochschule irgendwas, die, ich glaube, 40 Stück. Wir bauen auch immer noch fleißig weiter und jeder Versuch hat quasi seinen eigenen Würfel. Das heißt, wir haben auf sonem Brett in 'nem Cube drinnen den Versuchsaufbau und die Studierenden können per Webcam dieses ganze Ding beobachten und können von zu Hause aus ihren Code nehmen, wenn sie auf soner Station eingeloggt sind, können den da draufladen. Das heißt, der ganze Entwicklungsprozess passiert ganz normal, wie sonst auch aufm eigenen Computer.\n\nUnd wenn ich denke, die Software, die ich habe, kann ich jetzt testen, schieb ich das einmal bei uns übers VPN eben auf soner Station drauf. Und dann seh ich eben, ob die LEDs Ob er's abbraucht. Ob er's abraucht. Na, wir haben schon darauf geachtet, dass möglichst wenig kaputt machbar ist, aber eben, ob mein Lauflicht so läuft, wie laufen sollte oder ob sich der Servomotor genau in der Geschwindigkeit eine bestimmte Position bewegt. Ob mein Lichtsensor richtig funktioniert, mein Farbsensor die richtige Farbe detektiert oder, oder, oder.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber ist dann, also wo kommt dieses Set-up in dem Würfel her? Weil das teilen sich ja dann alle.\n\nSpeaker 2: Die Resurces an sich, also die Cubes an sich teilen sich alle, aber wenn Du dich bei uns im System einmal eingeloggt hast und die Station für dich reserviert hast, gehört sie für die nächsten 10 Minuten dir. Ja, aber da muss ja\n\nSpeaker 1: trotzdem die die Hardware, die da drin ist und die Verkabelung und die, weiß nicht, wenn da, ich brauch da 'n Aktor drin oder 'n Sensor oder keine,\n\nSpeaker 2: das muss ja drin sein, das\n\nSpeaker 1: muss ja bestückt sein, das meine ich. Das heißt, habt ihr da einmal was reingesteckt, wo quasi alles da ist, was man so brauchen kann oder gibt's da verschiedene Würfel, die verschiedene Set-up mit, also, ne?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also das System an sich, auch gleich\n\nSpeaker 1: ist pro Forschungs, also pro eurem Uniprojekt quasi so vorbereitet schon für die Teilnehmende.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Wir haben quasi für verschiedene Lehrmodule haben wir verschiedene verschiedene Experimente vorbereitet. Okay. Wir benutzen das vor allen Dingen, wie gesagt, in meinem Modul logischerweise. Aber wir haben das auch für technische Informatik 2, da hat sich das jetzt richtig, richtig ausgezahlt, dass wir das System haben, weil bei mir, bei Mikroprozessertechnik, da waren das immer 20 Studierende.\n\nDie kannst Du auch ganz gut handeln, indem Du die einfach nur im Labor hast. Wenn Du jetzt aber anfängst, 'n Modul mit fast 200 Studierenden zu haben, dann kannst Du nicht mehr 200 Studierenden Hardware bereitstellen. Das macht's irgendwie komplizierter.\n\nSpeaker 3: Und\n\nSpeaker 2: die Grundidee da jetzt aber zu sagen, ich hab eben Hardware, die sich Studierende teilen können und einfach remote verfügbar, dann bin sie's auch brauchen. Dann hab ich teilweise Leute, die nutzen das nachts 12. Dann hab ich andere Leute, die benutzen das dann und dann. Und dementsprechend hab ich quasi pro Modul bestimmte Aufbauten, die jeder dann und dann nutzen kann, wenn's grade frei ist. Jetzt sind wir bisher noch nicht großartig in Restriktionen reingelaufen, weil wir einfach so viel bereitstellen, dass wir gar nicht großartig eine zu hohe Last hätten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Okay, ja, dann dann macht das Sinn. Ich dachte\n\nSpeaker 2: nur grade, wie wie schafft ihr\n\nSpeaker 1: das quasi sone universelle CICD Umgebung bereitzustellen, wenn ja superviel davon an der Hardware irgendwie auch auch mithängt, ganz konkret.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber das das richtig Geile bei dem System ist eigentlich, dass wir architektonisch halt eben drauf geachtet haben, das möglichst serviceorientiert aufzubauen. Das heißt, Du hast quasi in jedem von diesen Cubes 'n eigenen Minicomputer, eben 'n raspberry Pi 5 momentan hängen. Und unser Deployment System funktioniert eben so, dass wenn wir eine neue Funktionalität brauchen, können wir einfach einen Service anpassen, zum Beispiel unseren Service und können dann halt auch 'n neuen Mikrocontroller Chip unterstützen. Oder können eben für einen anderes Modul auch irgend eine andere Funktionalität hinzufügen, indem wir nur diesen Service aufdrehen. Und so können wir quasi diese Versuche oder diese diese Cubes an sich für alle Versuche, die wir haben, eigentlich gleich nutzen, weil unser System am Ende eben so anpassbar ist, dass es halt einerseits für Mikroprozessortechnik mit der Toolchain von Microchip funktioniert.\n\nAber auch wenn ich halt 'n TI 2 Versuchsaufbau hab, also technische Informatik 2 auf Arduinobasis, dann nutzt der halt einfach nur im Bild Service eine andere Toolchain, in dem Fall dann eben dieses Arduino Framework im Hintergrund. Und dann funktioniert auch das wunderbar. Bis hin zu, dass wir sogar FPGA Boards mittlerweile da drinnen haben, also quasi programmierbare Logikchips, wo ich selber in der Lage bin, Digitalschaltungen zu programmieren, auch die wieder komplett eigene Ansteuerungsart, eigene Toolchain, aber in dem System bei uns relativ easy anpassbar.\n\nSpeaker 0: Cool. Cool. Ja, ich freu\n\nSpeaker 2: mich immer wieder, wenn ich's irgendwo zeigen darf. Ich war jetzt, wie gesagt, auch grade letzte Woche in Ungarn und hab's da gezeigt und beziehungsweise ich war nur remote in Ungarn und hatte da dann eine Kollegin aus, oh, ich glaube, Kolumbien und noch 'nem südamerikanischen Land da. Und die waren auch sofort begeistert und haben gefragt, hey, wie können wir da wie können wir davon profitieren? Weil die Grundidee davon ist ja im besten Fall, dass wir in hoffentlich 'nem Jahr oder 2 'n Netzwerk aufbauen können, wo man einfach Ressourcen sinnvoll teilen kann. Wenn bei uns grade Nacht ist und sowieso niemand die Hardware verwendet, wieso teilen wir die denn da nicht einfach mit 'ner anderen Hochschule, die die Möglichkeit vielleicht besser nutzen könnte zu dem Zeitpunkt?\n\nSpeaker 1: Und wenn ihr das als Hochschule baut oder entwickelt, wie viel kommerzieller Gedanke schwingt da so mit? Weil, also ich mein, da da hast Du ja grade selber beschrieben, das ist, das ist ja schon 'n halbes Produkt. Ja, so. Ihr könnt das ja auch kommerzialisieren.\n\nSpeaker 2: Sind wir teilweise 'n kleines bisschen schon dran, aber da geht's tatsächlich nicht drum, dass wir uns irgendwie die Taschen vorher machen wollen, sondern dass wir vor allen Dingen eine Finanzierung für unser Projekt aktuell brauchen. Bisher hat das Ganze sehr, sehr gut funktioniert über über unsere Hochschule. Das heißt, ich bin da wahnsinnig dankbar. Wenn ich schätzen müsste, haben wir mit Sicherheit in dem Projekt knapp 400000 Euro stecken, was schon eine ganze, ganze Menge Geld ist. Und wir sind bisher nicht auf Drittmittel angewiesen.\n\nIn der Forschung ist es leider ja häufig so. Ich weiß nicht, wie deep ihr so in dieser Thematik drinne steckt, aber es ist, wenn man an der Hochschule promoviert oder oder in der Forschung arbeitet, hat man im Normalfall einen befristeten Vertrag für ein bis 3 Jahre. Dann muss der verlängert werden oder man ist weg vom Fenster. Und ich hab die luxuriöse Situation, dass ich 'n entfristeten Vertrag habe. Das heißt, ich bin an der Hochschule für 100 Prozent Lehrer angestellt und hab quasi nebenbei dieses Forschungsprojekt unabhängig aufgezogen.\n\nUnd dadurch hat das den Vorteil, dass wir keine großen Fristen haben, dass wir keine Abhängigkeit haben, Geld irgendwie beibringen zu müssen. Wir sind leider jetzt grade dank den Problemen, die das Land Hessen son bisschen momentan hat, in der Situation, dass Finanzierung doch gar nicht so schlecht wäre, weil's Hochschulen, wie man in den Medien mitbekommen hat, momentan nicht so gut geht. Aber deshalb haben wir den Vorteil, dass unser System schon in 'nem sehr, sehr weiten Zustand ist, sodass wir hoffentlich das Ganze nicht verkaufen müssen. Weil verkaufen bedeutet meistens, dass man 'n Stück Freiheit aufgeben muss.\n\nSpeaker 3: Das ist richtig, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und das Schöne ist eben bei uns, dass wir momentan noch sehr, sehr unabhängig unsere Forschung und unsere Arbeit da machen können, ohne dass wir diese Abhängigkeit haben. Alright.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jakob, hätten wir noch irgendwas? Haben wir irgendeinen Bereich von übers übersprungen und dich nicht gefragt und wo Du eigentlich noch hättest, gerne was zu erzählt? Weil wir sind ja relativ blauäugig, sagen wir mal an das Thema rangegangen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ehrlich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ehrlich zu sein.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich find's auf\n\nSpeaker 2: jeden Fall sehr schön, dass ihr dem Ganzen überhaupt eine Bühne bietet, weil es für euch mit Sicherheit relativ weit weg ist von dem Daily Business, was sonst Loto ja hier so am Tag hat. Ja. Aber ich glaube, wir haben 'n relativ großen Schnitt tatsächlich, was so die Technologien angeht. Ich würde mir teilweise wünschen, dass es noch viel, viel verbreiteter werde, dass die Leute noch viel mehr damit beschäftigen, weil das ist eigentlich sone coole Spaßwiese, wo man coole Sachen machen kann. Und vielen Studierenden bei uns ist es häufig gar nicht so bewusst, dass es diese Thematik überhaupt gibt.\n\nUnd dann kommt wieder neues Buzzword wie zum Beispiel dann eben künstliche Intelligenz oder LLMs, die dann alles überfluten. Und uns wiederum fehlen die Studierenden, die so was machen, weil eben grade alle irgendwie nur noch auf diesen einen Hypetrain aufspringen und denken, das ist das Einzige, was es nur noch geben muss. Aber in der Zukunft brauchen wir immer noch Leute, die Maschinenbau studiert haben. Wir brauchen immer noch Leute, die Elektrotechnik oder eben Embedded Systems als Schwerpunkt irgendwie haben. Ansonsten, wir wir können nicht alle nur LLMs können, das wird nicht funktionieren.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Nee, ist richtig. Also ich fand's superspannend, mir hat's mir hat's superviel Spaß gemacht, das zu hören. Und tatsächlich auch son bisschen, also auch eine Neugierde halt wirklich, das Ding ist halt, ich weiß Er weiß\n\nSpeaker 1: doch mal deinen Wasserzähler zu Hause jetzt zum Bau in selbst.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, genau, zum Beispiel. Ich hab auch, also das nicht selbst gebaut ist, aber halt auch 'n Heizungssystem zum Beispiel, ne, wo alle möglichen Sensoren und so was sind, wo die UI jetzt nicht besonders toll ist, da hab ich auch schon gemacht, das kann man wahrscheinlich auch besser machen. Ich weiß, dass es zeitlich ein Problem wird, ne, aber ich würde und ich würde mir auch gerne mal, also eine eigene Platine ist schon was Geiles auch, oder? Mal so selbst irgendwie die zu malen, hab ich irgendwie auch Bock drauf.\n\nSpeaker 2: Da siehst Du tatsächlich auch immer wieder, wenn unsere Studierenden das das erste Mal machen, dann packen die immer irgendwo ihren Namen drauf und daran merkst Du immer schon, ah, der ist son kleiner Stolz, der da mitschwingt. Ja. Und wenn die die dann selber auspacken, da sind die so wahnsinnig drauf, dass wenn das kommt, dann wollen die immer das Paket abholen und die wollen's aufmachen und das erste Mal in der Hand halten und dann siehst Du das glitzern in den Augen. Ja. Das ist schon schön.\n\nIch\n\nSpeaker 0: hätte auch nämlich gedacht, dass ich sone Leiterbahn in irgend 'nem in irgend 'ner Form da drauf packe, die dann meine Initialen werden. Also weil direkt so, oh\n\nSpeaker 1: irgendwas, ja, so schreiben wir die Kamera drauf.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, oder eine Kleiderbahn, irgendwas noch zeichnen, so die Apple Philosophie, dass auch die Leiterbahn schön designt ist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Kleine Anekdote dazu, da gibt's tatsächlich Menschen, die Kunst in dem Bereich betreiben. Also es gibt Menschen, wenn Du, ich hab hab son paar Platinen zu Hause von 'nem Kollegen, der eben mal bei in soner Firma gearbeitet hat, wo Platinen hergestellt werden und Chips hergestellt werden. Und dann sind wir mit 'nem Mikroskop reingegangen und haben sehr, sehr hoch aufgelöste Aufnahmen gemacht. Und dann siehst Du, dass da teilweise kleine Grafiken drinnen sind. Da hat jemand 'n kleinen Tannenbaum irgendwo rein gemalt, mitten neben die Leiterbahnen.\n\nAlso es ist wirklich, die Leute verewigen sich da son bisschen und zeigen so, guck mal, hier ist so, das ist von mir.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ich danke gern. Na, ist schön. Vielen, vielen Dank für den Teil schon mal und es folgen noch die Pics of the day. Ich fang an. Hab natürlich lang vorbereitet eine große Liste an auf der Day, auf denen ich mich bedienen kann und passend zur heutigen Folge wähle ich einen.\n\nIch glaub, hatten wir noch nicht, was eigentlich komisch ist. Es hat noch niemand home Assistant, glaub ich, gewählt als PKFZA.\n\nSpeaker 2: Lustig, da\n\nSpeaker 1: haben wir heute beim Mittagessen drüber gesprochen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Und hat ja ein bisschen mit Microcontrollern zumindest nur, aber man braucht sie dafür. Also Home Assistant ist ein\n\nSpeaker 3: System, keine\n\nSpeaker 0: Ahnung, mit dem man sein Haus automatisiert.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also laut unserer Suche\n\nSpeaker 1: ist es schon mal erwähnt worden, aber nur war noch nie 'n Pick of the day.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, okay. Und also das Ding ist halt wirklich, man kann, es ist kompatibel, man kann praktisch alles an Geräten und Sensoren und keine Ahnung, was da reinstopfen und relativ übersichtlich und einfach sich automatisieren Automatisierungen bauen, sich Dashboards bauen für irgendwelche Temperaturen und so weiter. Also wahnsinnig viel, alles was mit Hausautomatisierung, mit Licht, mit keine Ahnung was, dann Kompatibilität mit Apple und Home, wie heißt es? Apple\n\nSpeaker 1: Home Kit.\n\nSpeaker 0: Home Kit und so weiter. Android Home, also eigentlich in alle Richtungen. Wahnsinn kompatibel sehr, sehr\n\nSpeaker 1: viel weiterentwickelt, 'n Open Source Projekt, glaube ich, ist es in Sommer. Ich glaub mittlerweile sogar 1 der größten Open Source Projekte auf GitHub hab ich mal irgendwo\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Google gehört oder so.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ist jetzt nicht, ich bin jetzt nicht der tiefste Experte drin, aber ich find eigentlich alles cool. Ich hab zumindest 'n Raspery zu Hause laufen, wo das drauf läuft und ein paar meiner Sensordaten dort reinlaufen. Von daher ist es heute mein passender. So Jan, jetzt komm, machen wir was Passendes.\n\nSpeaker 1: Was Passendes?\n\nSpeaker 0: Nein, nein, Du\n\nSpeaker 3: darfst\n\nSpeaker 0: Du darfst alles nehmen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich hab auch nix Passendes dabei. Ich hab was Lustiges dabei. Und zwar hab ich not a robot und da geht es Captchas. Die könnt ich jetzt mal aufmachen, Jakob hat kein Recht dran dabei, aber Dennis kann's aufmachen. Unter Neil dot fun Slash Not dash a dash Robo.\n\nSpeaker 0: Oh, warte mal, Neil Punkt Fun Slash. Not dash\n\nSpeaker 1: a dash Robo. Und was Du da präsentiert bekommst, ist eine sehr lange Reihe immer komplizierter werdender Captures und ausgefallener werdenden Captures, zu beweisen, dass Du eben kein Roboter bist. Das Erste ist so, das kennt man so von Google, reCaptcha, kreuzt dir an, ich bin kein Roboter, dann kommen diese wunderbaren Grafik Captchas und es wird halt immer immer ausgefallener und obskurer hin zu, weiß ich nicht, sortiere irgendwelche Gedichte in 'ner Reihenfolge und bla bla bla. Und das ist also, es macht einfach nur Spaß so, ja? Und irgendwann kommt man halt an den Punkt, wo man aufgibt, weil man zu genervt ist oder die Aufgabe zu komplex wird oder okay, dann bin ich halt doch kein Mensch mehr.\n\nDas macht schon, das macht viel Spaß, so, man muss 'n bisschen puzzlen, es ist so, das kann man mal in einem Browser Tab irgendwie offen haben und immer, wenn man mal 10 Sekunden Abwechslung braucht zwischendrin, kann man sich mal wieder eine Capture Ebene weiter durchlaufen. Ihr könnt ja bei uns im Discord mal schreiben, wie weit ihr gekommen seid oder in welchem Capture ihr aufgegeben habt und verzweifelt habt und eingesehen habt, dass ihr doch kein Mensch seid.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist mein Pick of the day.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sorry, ich bin abgelenkt. Ja. Macht was. Wie weit bist\n\nSpeaker 1: Du, ich komm, das\n\nSpeaker 2: sieht aus wie eine\n\nSpeaker 1: mit 3 oder 4.\n\nSpeaker 0: 5 bin ich.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, siehst Du?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Und das macht dich nicht wahnsinnig?\n\nSpeaker 1: Wir haben schon ganz andere Pixie gehabt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber ich find so schon immer diese diese Capture Dinger so schwierig und ich mach's so oft falsch.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Ja. Dennis ist raus für die Folge, ist jetzt mit Capture beschäftigt. Jakob, was hast Du so\n\nSpeaker 0: Ey, das geht doch gar nicht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Bist obwohl kein Mensch Dennis Level 6 ausgeschrieben hatte.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Jakob, was soll ich denn?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, jetzt bin ich auch abgelenkt von dir. Okay. Ja, dann würde ich spontan aber noch was machen. Was sagt ihr dann, was, also gerade weil weil ihr so interessiert wart bei dieser Platinherstellung. Ja, passt.\n\nMachen wir doch passend hier zu Platinherstellung einfach mal selber machen. Also ich kann allen empfehlen, dass sie einerseits als Software verwenden, weil das sehr, sehr einsteigerfreundlich ist. Damit kann ich easy meinen allerersten Schaltplan zeichnen, wenn ich das möchte. Das ist relativ groß, relativ umfassend, wenn wenn's Teile und so weiter geht. Also mit KI CAD kann man sehr, sehr schön seine ersten Schritte in dem Bereich machen.\n\nWenn man das dann alles einmal fertig hat, hab ich persönlich sehr gute Erfahrungen mit JLCPCB gemacht. Es gibt als Alternative auch PCB way, aber es gibt bestimmt auch noch andere Hersteller. Und das ist gar nicht so teuer, wie man denkt. Das habe ich ja eben schon erzählt. Also für 5 Platinen im 100 mal 100 Millimeter Bereich ist man da bei 2 Dollar.\n\nUnd wenn man sagt, man man bestellt das jetzt nicht per DHL Express, dann geht das sogar versandkostenfrei teilweise, also dann bezahle ich wirklich 2 Dollar für 5 Platinen. Das ist 'n Schnapper. Wenn ich mir dann auch die einzelnen Bauteile irgendwo mit her herbestelle von Konrad oder Reichelt oder so in Deutschland oder halt eben auch bestücken lasse das Ganze, kann man auf jeden Fall mal 'n bisschen mit rumspielen, wenn man abends irgendwie Langeweile hat und sich denkt, ich will mal was Neues lernen, ich will mal irgendwas machen, ich sonst vielleicht noch nicht so kennengelernt hab. Also ich guck\n\nSpeaker 0: mir das grade Langeweile hätte ich gern mal.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, ich würd mir\n\nSpeaker 2: auch wünschen, viel mehr Zeit dafür zu haben, weil ich bin immer sehr, ich hab das ja auch studiert, genau weil ich das so cool fand. Und heute ist es leider immer so, dass ich dann meinen ganzen Studierenden immer über die Schulter gucke und neidisch bin, wenn ich sehe, dass sie das alles erleben und neu erleben dürfen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also also das JLCPCB lohnt sich allein deshalb schon, weil sie auf ihrer Startseite son cooles Video haben aus ihrer Fabrik, wie das überhaupt so alles läuft. Und wer sich das mal anschauen will, was Jakob eben so beschrieben hat, kann man das Video, glaub ich, sone Minute oder anderthalb, kann man's einfach das mal geben. Ist auch ganz interessant.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ist leider immer son bisschen übersetzungstechnisch schwierig. Es kann sein, dass da Sachen mal nicht so ganz passen, weil das eben ausm Chinesischen teilweise übersetzt wird. Keine Sorge, ist kein Scam. Ich bestell da wirklich häufiger. Ist 'n sehr, sehr cooler Laden.\n\nWunderbar.\n\nSpeaker 0: Cool.\n\nSpeaker 1: Dennis ist noch geflasht und überleg grade, was er als Nächstes bestellen kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ich guck mal. Ich wollt grad mal meinen Computer zuklappen. Aber dann wär die Aufnahme vielleicht sagen wir vorher noch tschüs, bevor ich einfach deinen Computer zuklappe.\n\nSpeaker 3: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, Jakob, vielen, vielen Dank, dass Du hier vorbeigeschaut hast und ja auch tatsächlich hier vor Ort mit uns aufm Sofa sitzen kannst. Habt ihr so viel Spaß gemacht, war sehr, sehr interessant und wie gesagt, hat auch ein bisschen geweckt, eine Motivation irgendwie was machen zu wollen in dem Bereich. Ich hoffe, das geht einigen Hörer*innen da draußen genauso. Wenn ihr Feedback habt zu der Folge, schreibt uns gerne an Podcast app programmierbar oder auch wenn ihr Fragen habt, da dürft ihr die bestimmt stellen und wir leiten sie entweder weiter an Jakob.\n\nSpeaker 1: Oder kommt in unseren Discord Server?\n\nSpeaker 0: Oh, der kommt auf unseren Discord Server.\n\nSpeaker 1: Auf oder\n\nSpeaker 2: wo kommt\n\nSpeaker 1: man da hin?\n\nSpeaker 3: Kommt man\n\nSpeaker 1: auf einen Server? Kommt man den Inhaltserver? Ich hab auf,\n\nSpeaker 3: glaub ich,\n\nSpeaker 0: auf, oder? Auf. Okay. Kommt kommt drauf. Haben wir noch die Möglichkeit?\n\nNee, haben wir nicht. Ist 'n Deep Dive, sorry.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Genau. Wir wissen nicht, wenn\n\nSpeaker 0: er veröffentlicht würde, können keine Werbung früher zur Konferenz machen. Die bestimmt stattgefunden hat und schon ganz toll war, aber es keine Tickets mit gibt's in der Vergangenheit liegt. Noch irgendwas vergessen?\n\nSpeaker 3: Nee. Vielen, vielen Dank.\n\nSpeaker 1: Danke Jakob. Bis zum\n\nSpeaker 0: nächsten Mal. Macht's gut. Tschüss.\n\nSpeaker 3: Tschau,",[37587,37594,37601,37611,37616,37627,37631,37638,37643,37653,37666,37671,37676,37686,37694,37698,37705,37710,37715,37720,37727,37731,37743,37747,37760,37765,37778,37782,37791,37800,37807,37819,37822,37826,37832,37840,37851,37854,37857,37864,37871,37884,37896,37907,37911,37924,37937,37943,37955,37959,37962,37975,37982,37991,38004,38013,38017,38028,38041,38050,38063,38076,38088,38100,38104,38109,38120,38123,38135,38146,38158,38169,38181,38194,38197,38205,38210,38223,38229,38242,38255,38268,38273,38277,38289,38293,38297,38310,38316,38323,38335,38347,38350,38354,38366,38369,38378,38391,38398,38411,38422,38431,38444,38452,38461,38465,38472,38477,38489,38502,38513,38524,38537,38550,38559,38563,38571,38576,38581,38585,38590,38598,38602,38606,38611,38618,38622,38631,38643,38648,38652,38656,38664,38672,38676,38683,38694,38700,38704,38708,38712,38724,38734,38738,38748,38752,38756,38760,38769,38778,38790,38802,38806,38810,38823,38827,38831,38837,38841,38847,38851,38855,38859,38863,38867,38877,38889,38893,38897,38903,38907,38913,38925,38938,38951,38955,38959,38971,38980,38992,39000,39013,39025,39031,39035,39038,39048,39059,39071,39075,39085,39089,39095,39099,39105,39113,39117,39123,39127,39137,39141,39151,39155,39164,39168,39174,39179,39185,39189,39201,39214,39218,39222,39226,39231,39235,39246,39250,39261,39265,39269,39273,39285,39290,39299,39310,39322,39335,39347,39354,39361,39365,39369,39375,39379,39383,39394,39403,39406,39418,39425,39429,39433,39446,39454,39460,39472,39483,39496,39508,39519,39523,39528,39537,39540,39544,39548,39560,39573,39582,39586,39596,39606,39609,39615,39619,39623,39635,39639,39651,39657,39661,39665,39672,39676,39680,39684,39688,39697,39701,39709,39715,39718,39722,39733,39737,39741,39744,39748,39761,39767,39779,39785,39789,39798,39802,39806,39810,39814,39818,39823,39827,39831,39839,39843,39847,39852,39863,39875,39887,39897,39901,39905,39911,39919,39931,39934,39937,39941,39949,39952,39962,39966,39970,39974,39978,39982,39986,39994,39998,40008,40014,40020,40028,40033,40039,40046],{"sentences":37588,"speaker":294,"num_words":37593,"start":291,"end":388},[37589,37591],{"text":37590,"start":291,"end":345},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen, liebe Hörer*innen zu einem neuen Deep Dive der programmierbar.",{"text":37592,"start":350,"end":388},"Mein Name ist Dennis Becker und zusammen bin ich heute im",24,{"sentences":37595,"speaker":273,"num_words":37600,"start":388,"end":419},[37596,37598],{"text":37597,"start":388,"end":409},"Studio mit Dem Jan Imgetrieben.",{"text":37599,"start":414,"end":419},"Moin moin.",7,{"sentences":37602,"speaker":294,"num_words":37610,"start":424,"end":525},[37603,37604,37606,37608],{"text":428,"start":424,"end":425},{"text":37605,"start":430,"end":458},"Und wir wollen heute ein bisschen über Embedded sprechen.",{"text":37607,"start":458,"end":487},"Ist, glaube ich, 'n sehr großer Bereich.",{"text":37609,"start":487,"end":525},"Wir werden's noch 'n bisschen näher definieren, aber wir haben",27,{"sentences":37612,"speaker":273,"num_words":37615,"start":529,"end":544},[37613],{"text":37614,"start":529,"end":544},"Nicht zu verwechseln mit Embeddings.",5,{"sentences":37617,"speaker":294,"num_words":37626,"start":548,"end":748},[37618,37620,37622,37624],{"text":37619,"start":548,"end":627},"Nicht zu verwechseln mit dem AI Team Embeddings, das ist richtig, sondern es geht eher Hardware und Mikrocontroller und so solche Geschichten.",{"text":37621,"start":631,"end":705},"Und dafür haben wir heute einen Gast eingeladen, der sich schon seit ein paar Jahren damit beschäftigt, was man dort alles machen kann.",{"text":37623,"start":709,"end":722},"Und das ist Jakob Tschekanski.",{"text":37625,"start":726,"end":748},"Jakob, schön, dass Du da bist.",56,{"sentences":37628,"speaker":754,"num_words":37600,"start":748,"end":772},[37629],{"text":37630,"start":748,"end":772},"Hallöchen, schön, dass ich da sein darf.",{"sentences":37632,"speaker":294,"num_words":37637,"start":775,"end":825},[37633,37635],{"text":37634,"start":775,"end":807},"Jakob, Du bist jetzt schon eine Dekade an der Uni.",{"text":37636,"start":807,"end":825},"Ich hoffe, da fühlst Du",15,{"sentences":37639,"speaker":754,"num_words":37642,"start":825,"end":852},[37640],{"text":37641,"start":825,"end":852},"dich jetzt nicht alt durch, aber 'N bisschen.",8,{"sentences":37644,"speaker":294,"num_words":37652,"start":852,"end":945},[37645,37646,37648,37650],{"text":428,"start":852,"end":855},{"text":37647,"start":855,"end":886},"Und hast dich sehr, sehr viel mit dem Thema beschäftigt.",{"text":37649,"start":890,"end":908},"Was machst Du grade an der Uni?",{"text":37651,"start":908,"end":945},"Und genau, erzähl uns mal 'n bisschen was über deine aktuelle Rolle.",30,{"sentences":37654,"speaker":754,"num_words":37665,"start":949,"end":1200},[37655,37657,37659,37661,37663],{"text":37656,"start":949,"end":970},"Das ist immer relativ kompliziert zu erklären.",{"text":37658,"start":973,"end":1014},"Ich würd sagen, mein Hauptjob ist es eigentlich, dass ich da Vorlesungen halte.",{"text":37660,"start":1014,"end":1112},"Das heißt, als als Dozent bin ich tätig im Bereich von Microcontroller Technik, bei der Systems und alles, was so irgendwie in den Kontext von Informatik in Hardware passt.",{"text":37662,"start":1112,"end":1172},"Das heißt, es kann Robotik sein, es können Mikrocontroller sein, es kann eine Spülmaschine sein oder was auch immer.",{"text":37664,"start":1175,"end":1200},"Und in dem Kontext halte ich im Normalfall meine Vorlesung.",78,{"sentences":37667,"speaker":754,"num_words":37670,"start":1200,"end":1290},[37668],{"text":37669,"start":1200,"end":1290},"Das heißt, im dritten Semester fang ich da an mit Grundlagenvorlesungen und hab zusätzlich aber zu meinen Vorlesungen, die ich halte, auch noch 'n Forschungsprojekt, das sich micro schimpft.",29,{"sentences":37672,"speaker":294,"num_words":37675,"start":1295,"end":1356},[37673],{"text":37674,"start":1295,"end":1356},"Dürfen wir eigentlich, haben wir gar nicht vorher abgeklärt, ist die private Beziehung, die Du zu uns hast, ist die öffentlich?",21,{"sentences":37677,"speaker":754,"num_words":37685,"start":1359,"end":1440},[37678,37680,37681,37683],{"text":37679,"start":1359,"end":1403},"Ich geh davon aus, ja, also auf LinkedIn kann man das gut einsehen.",{"text":1411,"start":1408,"end":1409},{"text":37682,"start":1409,"end":1427},"Ich wollt grad sagen, ja.",{"text":37684,"start":1427,"end":1440},"Na, weil wir",22,{"sentences":37687,"speaker":294,"num_words":37637,"start":1440,"end":1493},[37688,37690,37692],{"text":37689,"start":1440,"end":1459},"wir kennen Jakob tatsächlich auf privat.",{"text":37691,"start":1464,"end":1479},"Vanessa ist verheiratet mit Jakob.",{"text":37693,"start":1484,"end":1493},"Seid jetzt auch schon",{"sentences":37695,"speaker":754,"num_words":37600,"start":1495,"end":1514},[37696],{"text":37697,"start":1495,"end":1514},"das ist jetzt fies live zu Flagge.",{"sentences":37699,"speaker":294,"num_words":37704,"start":1518,"end":1583},[37700,37702],{"text":37701,"start":1518,"end":1542},"Auch schon 'n Weilchen auf jeden Fall.",{"text":37703,"start":1546,"end":1583},"Und genau, Vanessa ist ja auch, war ja auch schon mit Podcast mittlerweile.",20,{"sentences":37706,"speaker":273,"num_words":37709,"start":1586,"end":1601},[37707],{"text":37708,"start":1586,"end":1601},"Vanessa war vor Jakob im Podcast.",6,{"sentences":37711,"speaker":294,"num_words":37714,"start":1601,"end":1635},[37712],{"text":37713,"start":1601,"end":1635},"War vorher Jakob Podcast und auch ja, schon länger bei Lotum.",11,{"sentences":37716,"speaker":273,"num_words":37719,"start":1635,"end":1679},[37717],{"text":37718,"start":1635,"end":1679},"Und das, obwohl Jakob schon Dutzende Male hier bei uns auf den Meetups war.",14,{"sentences":37721,"speaker":1685,"num_words":37726,"start":1683,"end":1697},[37722,37724],{"text":37723,"start":1683,"end":1689},"Das stimmt.",{"text":37725,"start":1689,"end":1697},"Und er",4,{"sentences":37728,"speaker":273,"num_words":37600,"start":1697,"end":1718},[37729],{"text":37730,"start":1697,"end":1718},"'n Mitglied, in der programmierbar ist sozusagen.",{"sentences":37732,"speaker":294,"num_words":37742,"start":1722,"end":1900},[37733,37734,37736,37738,37740],{"text":37723,"start":1722,"end":1726},{"text":37735,"start":1726,"end":1744},"Und jetzt endlich auch mal am Mikrofon.",{"text":37737,"start":1747,"end":1796},"Von daher, genau, das das vielleicht noch als als als Kontext, dass wir uns schon 'n bisschen länger kennen.",{"text":37739,"start":1799,"end":1820},"Ich weiß, gibt's gibt's eine Definition für?",{"text":37741,"start":1823,"end":1900},"Also weil irgendwie, das hört man immer mal wieder und es geht dann immer, ja okay, es sind irgendwie in Geräten drin und keine Ahnung was.",61,{"sentences":37744,"speaker":294,"num_words":37714,"start":1900,"end":1938},[37745],{"text":37746,"start":1900,"end":1938},"Also gibt's irgendwie eine offizielle Abgrenzung, wo anfängt und irgendwie aufhört?",{"sentences":37748,"speaker":754,"num_words":37759,"start":1941,"end":2305},[37749,37751,37753,37755,37757],{"text":37750,"start":1941,"end":1987},"Ja, das ist 'n bisschen schwierig, weil sich das über die letzten Jahre son bisschen verändert hat.",{"text":37752,"start":1990,"end":2062},"Ich hab lustigerweise grade letzte Woche in Ungarn auf 'ner auf 'ner Konferenz genau das auch versucht zu erklären, weil die Leute da nicht den Kontext hatten.",{"text":37754,"start":2065,"end":2119},"Und ich versuch's immer so zu definieren, dass ich sage, das ist das, wo ich Informatik eingebettet in 'n anderen Kontext hab.",{"text":37756,"start":2122,"end":2211},"Das heißt, es kann sein, dass ich zum Beispiel eine Mikrowelle habe, das kann sein, dass ich 'n Handy in der Tasche habe, es kann sein, dass ich 'n Flugzeug oder 'n Auto habe.",{"text":37758,"start":2211,"end":2305},"Überall da drinnen steckt ja im Endeffekt viel Software, die sich aber 'n bisschen anders verhält, als wenn ich jetzt eben eine typische Webseite habe oder eine typische App, die aufm Computer läuft.",133,{"sentences":37761,"speaker":754,"num_words":37764,"start":2305,"end":2350},[37762],{"text":37763,"start":2305,"end":2350},"Das heißt eben, eigentlich irgendwie Programme oder Software, die eingebettet ist in irgend 'nem technischen Kontext.",16,{"sentences":37766,"speaker":273,"num_words":37777,"start":2353,"end":2778},[37767,37769,37771,37773,37775],{"text":37768,"start":2353,"end":2405},"Und da hätt ich eine Rückfrage zu, weil so hab ich das auch mal gelernt vor vielen Jahren, ne.",{"text":37770,"start":2408,"end":2424},"Zu alt bist Du noch gar nicht.",{"text":37772,"start":2428,"end":2516},"Ja, aber ich hatte trotzdem schon 'n paar Jährchen her so embedded, immer so als Teil von irgend 'nem größeren Apparat, Maschine, Anlage, Fahrzeug, was auch immer.",{"text":37774,"start":2519,"end":2621},"Und dann, als ich mich son bisschen auf die Folge hier vorbereitet hab, dacht ich so, was ist denn mit diesem ganzen IoT Thema eigentlich, wo ja quasi möglichst wenig drum herum ist, diese ganzen Geräte?",{"text":37776,"start":2621,"end":2778},"Also da hast Du, weiß ich nicht, draußen so einen Sensor, der nur Feuchtigkeit oder Temperatur misst oder so und das dann andauernd überträgt, der ist ja, also gesamtgenommen schon Teil von was Größerem, aber eben nicht in in 'nem Gerät drum herum, sondern da hängt ja möglichst wenig quasi in diesem einen Teil.",143,{"sentences":37779,"speaker":1685,"num_words":754,"start":2781,"end":2786},[37780],{"text":37781,"start":2781,"end":2786},"Ist es",{"sentences":37783,"speaker":273,"num_words":37790,"start":2786,"end":2811},[37784,37786,37788],{"text":37785,"start":2786,"end":2794},"dann trotzdem embedded?",{"text":37787,"start":2794,"end":2806},"Ist das was anderes?",{"text":37789,"start":2806,"end":2811},"Ist das",9,{"sentences":37792,"speaker":754,"num_words":37799,"start":2814,"end":2927},[37793,37795,37797],{"text":37794,"start":2814,"end":2830},"Nee, das ist ja auch absolut embedded.",{"text":37796,"start":2830,"end":2880},"Das ist ja auch erst, deshalb mein ich eben, das hat sich so mit der Zeit 'n bisschen verändert.",{"text":37798,"start":2884,"end":2927},"IoT ist ja auch erst groß gekommen, ich sag mal, in den letzten vielleicht 10 Jahren,",42,{"sentences":37801,"speaker":1685,"num_words":37806,"start":2927,"end":2981},[37802,37804],{"text":37803,"start":2927,"end":2936},"vielleicht 15 Jahren.",{"text":37805,"start":2936,"end":2981},"Davor war das ja noch gar nicht son großes Thema, auch grade zu Hause nicht",18,{"sentences":37808,"speaker":754,"num_words":37818,"start":2981,"end":3172},[37809,37811,37812,37814,37816],{"text":37810,"start":2981,"end":2987},"so wirklich.",{"text":2938,"start":2991,"end":2992},{"text":37813,"start":2992,"end":3030},"Davor war das ja noch gar nicht son großes Thema, auch grade zu Hause nicht so wirklich.",{"text":37815,"start":3032,"end":3067},"Ich hab ja trotzdem am Ende einen System, was den Sensor auslesen muss.",{"text":37817,"start":3067,"end":3172},"Das heißt, ich hab nicht alleine nur einen Sensor, sondern ich hab immer irgendwie einen Controller irgendwas, was quasi eine Art Minicomputer darstellt, der ja dann die Sensordaten verwalten muss, versenden muss, verarbeiten muss oder was auch immer.",71,{"sentences":37820,"speaker":1685,"num_words":273,"start":3174,"end":3175},[37821],{"text":1411,"start":3174,"end":3175},{"sentences":37823,"speaker":273,"num_words":37790,"start":3178,"end":3201},[37824],{"text":37825,"start":3178,"end":3201},"Also auch in einem virtuell größeren Gerät sozusagen möglichst.",{"sentences":37827,"speaker":754,"num_words":37831,"start":3205,"end":3300},[37828,37829],{"text":3208,"start":3205,"end":3206},{"text":37830,"start":3206,"end":3300},"Wenn ich mir überlege, wenn ich mir son ATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT Ein Sensor, ein ganz, ganz kleiner Controller, aber der wieder eingebettet in son größeres System eben, in Netzwerk zum Beispiel dann aus vielen Sensoren.",34,{"sentences":37833,"speaker":294,"num_words":37839,"start":3303,"end":3503},[37834,37835,37837],{"text":1411,"start":3303,"end":3304},{"text":37836,"start":3307,"end":3335},"Und also, wahrscheinlich falsch, aber oder nicht.",{"text":37838,"start":3338,"end":3503},"Gibt es auf, also gibt es UI im im im Rahmen von oder ist, kann man sagen, das ist irgendwie immer in 'nem System drin und wenn ich jetzt irgendwie, keine Ahnung, mir das angucke auf irgend 'nem Dashboard oder irgend 'ner Oberfläche oder so was, ist das direkt 'n anderes System oder gibt es Bereiche von, die trotzdem UI bereitstellen?",69,{"sentences":37841,"speaker":754,"num_words":1115,"start":3506,"end":3749},[37842,37844,37846,37847,37849],{"text":37843,"start":3506,"end":3566},"Das ist superspannend tatsächlich, weil das lange Zeit schwierig war, überhaupt auf sonem sonem sehr abgespeckten System eine gute UI zu haben.",{"text":37845,"start":3570,"end":3641},"Aber wenn ihr mal an jedes Auto denkt, was heutzutage irgendwo rumfährt, da hab ich immer irgendwie 'n Infotainmentsystem drinnen, was auch relativ komplex heute ist.",{"text":3646,"start":3641,"end":3645},{"text":37848,"start":3645,"end":3672},"Das ist auch in den letzten Jahren natürlich immer größer geworden.",{"text":37850,"start":3675,"end":3749},"Und es gibt auch extra da tatsächlich zum Beispiel Flatter, was ich auf laufen lassen kann, was ja hier auch durchaus bei Lotum häufig schon irgendwie 'n Thema ist.",{"sentences":37852,"speaker":754,"num_words":273,"start":3752,"end":3753},[37853],{"text":3754,"start":3752,"end":3753},{"sentences":37855,"speaker":1685,"num_words":273,"start":3753,"end":3756},[37856],{"text":1240,"start":3753,"end":3756},{"sentences":37858,"speaker":754,"num_words":37863,"start":3756,"end":3845},[37859,37861,37862],{"text":37860,"start":3756,"end":3838},"ich da aber auch die Möglichkeit, mit typischen Frameworks zu arbeiten, die's sonst so eigentlich aufm normalen Computer quasi gibt, aber alles immer irgendwie in 'ner etwas abgespeckteren Version.",{"text":1411,"start":3841,"end":3842},{"text":432,"start":3844,"end":3845},31,{"sentences":37865,"speaker":294,"num_words":37870,"start":3848,"end":4032},[37866,37868],{"text":37867,"start":3848,"end":3953},"klassischerweise, also weil wir auch über Mikrocontroller und ganz kleine Computer und so was reden, jetzt in 'nem Auto, das 'n großes Infotainmentsystem powert, ist ja dann auch gleichzeitig schon irgendwie wieder 'n richtiger Rechner drin gefühlt.",{"text":37869,"start":3957,"end":4032},"Ist da dann wieder irgendwo sone Obergrenze, wo man sagt, okay, das ist jetzt nicht mehr, sondern das ist einfach nur 'n Computer, der 'n anderen Formfaktor hat?",65,{"sentences":37872,"speaker":754,"num_words":37883,"start":4032,"end":4286},[37873,37875,37877,37879,37881],{"text":37874,"start":4032,"end":4056},"Das ist wahnsinnig schwer, das quasi zu trennen.",{"text":37876,"start":4056,"end":4127},"Gerade in den letzten Jahren ist das ja superpotent geworden, was wir da an Hardware drin haben, wenn wir mal an Handys denken erst mal.",{"text":37878,"start":4130,"end":4236},"Alleine, was sich da entwickelt hat, da hatten wir früher, das war immer unser Vorzeigebeichpiel, wenn ich son son typisches Handy hatte, was nicht smart war, dann war das für mich 'n, weil das 'n relativ schwachen Mikrocontroller verbaut hatte.",{"text":37880,"start":4236,"end":4264},"Und genauso war das auch früher bei den Infotainment Systemen.",{"text":37882,"start":4264,"end":4286},"Und dann sind die immer potenter und größer geworden.",92,{"sentences":37885,"speaker":754,"num_words":1630,"start":4288,"end":4668},[37886,37888,37890,37892,37894],{"text":37887,"start":4288,"end":4345},"Also wir reden da jetzt auch übrigens von 'ner Megahertzzahl bei 'nem kleinen Mikrocontroller irgendwo von 4 Megahertz oder so.",{"text":37889,"start":4345,"end":4465},"Das kann auch hochgehen auf 80 Megahertz, das kann auch hochgehen auf 720 Megahertz und auf einmal kommen wir in den Gigahertzbereich und dann fragt man sich, wann ist das denn jetzt noch Mikro und wann hat das auf einmal angefangen, nicht mehr Mikro zu sein?",{"text":37891,"start":4468,"end":4571},"Deshalb definieren wir normalerweise, wenn wir von 'nem Mikrocontroller reden, auch häufig eigentlich, dass wir sagen, ich hab 'n Mikrocontroller oder auch 'n Mikrocomputer, weil's am Ende eigentlich nichts anderes ist als 'n Komplettcomputersystem, alles nur sehr abgespeckt, sehr klein.",{"text":37893,"start":4575,"end":4647},"Und das verläuft sich dann irgendwann ab, wann ich sagen kann, na ja, wenn ich jetzt einen Raspberry Pi nehme, ist 'n Raspberry Pi jetzt noch son Mikrocomputersystem.",{"text":37895,"start":4651,"end":4668},"Die haben mittlerweile 8 Gigabyte RAM.",{"sentences":37897,"speaker":754,"num_words":37906,"start":4668,"end":4759},[37898,37900,37902,37904],{"text":37899,"start":4668,"end":4690},"Die haben mittlerweile mehr Kernprozessoren da drinnen.",{"text":37901,"start":4690,"end":4701},"Ist das noch Mikro?",{"text":37903,"start":4704,"end":4711},"Ist schwierig zu sagen.",{"text":37905,"start":4715,"end":4759},"Und für deine Forschungsarbeit oder für das, was Du im Rahmen der der Uni behandelst, würdest Du",32,{"sentences":37908,"speaker":294,"num_words":37675,"start":4759,"end":4817},[37909],{"text":37910,"start":4759,"end":4817},"so was dann noch inkludieren oder ist das für dich klar draus, weil ihr euch eher die ganz kleinen Systeme kümmert?",{"sentences":37912,"speaker":754,"num_words":37923,"start":4821,"end":5176},[37913,37915,37917,37919,37921],{"text":37914,"start":4821,"end":4847},"Tatsächlich versuchen wir ja irgendwie in der Uni alles abzudecken.",{"text":37916,"start":4847,"end":4901},"Das heißt, wenn wir einsteigen in die Thematik mit den Studierenden, versuchen wir am Anfang möglichst einsteigerfreundliche Controller zu nehmen.",{"text":37918,"start":4901,"end":5023},"Das heißt, wenn wir uns da eine 8 Bit Rechner Architektur angucken, ist es meistens leichter, die zu verstehen, als wenn ich dann schon auf 32 Bit hochgehe, weil dann irgendwie die Speicherverwaltung viel komplexer wird, die Adressierung viel komplexer wird, einfach alles komplexer.",{"text":37920,"start":5026,"end":5133},"Und dementsprechend gucken wir, dass wir im Studium erst mal den leichten Einstieg mit weniger komplexen Dingen machen und dann eben immer höher in den industriellen Standard gehen, bis wir dann irgendwann auch auf Kortexprozessoren oder so was gehen.",{"text":37922,"start":5136,"end":5176},"Und da kann man quasi mit den Studierenden bis im Wahlpflichtbereich irgendwann dann alles irgendwie abdecken.",129,{"sentences":37925,"speaker":273,"num_words":37936,"start":5179,"end":5318},[37926,37928,37930,37932,37934],{"text":37927,"start":5179,"end":5197},"Jetzt hast Du grade so den Einstieg angesprochen.",{"text":37929,"start":5200,"end":5221},"Und wie wie muss ich mir das denn vorstellen?",{"text":37931,"start":5225,"end":5251},"Schwingt dir da den Lötkolben in deiner Vorlesung, ja?",{"text":37933,"start":5251,"end":5297},"Werden da noch Transistoren zusammengeklebt, so wie ganz früher, so kleine Systeme dann zusammenzuschustern?",{"text":37935,"start":5301,"end":5318},"Benutzt er da was von der Stange?",47,{"sentences":37938,"speaker":273,"num_words":37593,"start":5322,"end":5390},[37939,37941],{"text":37940,"start":5322,"end":5371},"Und okay, bevor ich die Folge gefragt stelle, erst mal, wie wie steigt ihr da so hardwaremäßig ein?",{"text":37942,"start":5374,"end":5390},"Was brauch ich zu Hause, anzufangen?",{"sentences":37944,"speaker":754,"num_words":37839,"start":5393,"end":5574},[37945,37947,37949,37951,37953],{"text":37946,"start":5393,"end":5408},"Gut, das ist auch sehr spannend.",{"text":37948,"start":5408,"end":5433},"Ich hab jetzt an der Hochschule auch schon viel mitgemacht.",{"text":37950,"start":5433,"end":5511},"Ich bin da jetzt auch schon seit, also seit 5 Jahren fest angestellt, aber davor hab ich das auch schon während meines Studiums, glaub ich, 5, 6 Jahre gemacht.",{"text":37952,"start":5511,"end":5549},"Also ich würd's, ich hab jetzt gemerkt, ich hab langsam meine 10 Jahre voll.",{"text":37954,"start":5553,"end":5574},"Und das Studium hat sich alleine seitdem sehr stark verändert.",{"sentences":37956,"speaker":754,"num_words":37719,"start":5576,"end":5616},[37957],{"text":37958,"start":5576,"end":5616},"Wir machen mittlerweile den Einstieg absichtlich, so wie das so ausm Makerbereich bekannt ist,",{"sentences":37960,"speaker":1685,"num_words":273,"start":5616,"end":5619},[37961],{"text":395,"start":5616,"end":5619},{"sentences":37963,"speaker":754,"num_words":37974,"start":5619,"end":6036},[37964,37966,37968,37970,37972],{"text":37965,"start":5619,"end":5673},"Arrenoprodukten beziehungsweise dann ESP 32 von Expressive oder alles, was eben irgendwie auf dieser Arduinoebene aufbaut.",{"text":37967,"start":5677,"end":5725},"Man da den Vorteil hat, dass man quasi einen Mikrocontrollersystem hat, aber trotzdem sehr abstrakt programmieren kann.",{"text":37969,"start":5725,"end":5867},"So wie man das vielleicht von Java oder anderen Sprachen irgendwie ausm Web oder so kennt, dass man wirklich sagen kann, na ja, ich hab halt irgendwie mein meinen Konsolenprint oder so was, der dann einfach direkt über meine USB Leitung über Ua drübergeschoben wird, ohne dass ich eigentlich weiß, was da passiert.",{"text":37971,"start":5870,"end":5951},"Und nachdem wir quasi diesen sehr groben Einstieg machen im zweiten Semester, gehen wir dann im dritten Semester in Deep Dive und sagen, okay, wir gucken uns jetzt mal an, was passiert da auf Registerebene?",{"text":37973,"start":5956,"end":6036},"Leider wird nicht so wirklich der Lötkolben geschwungen, weil wir ja schon zumindest in dem Bereich, wo ich unterwegs bin, versuchen, den Fokus auf der Programmierung und der Softwareentwicklung zu haben.",152,{"sentences":37976,"speaker":754,"num_words":37981,"start":6039,"end":6298},[37977,37979],{"text":37978,"start":6039,"end":6164},"Nichtsdestotrotz ist es aber, glaub ich, ganz praktisch, wenn man in dem Bereich unterwegs ist, wenn man auch durchaus in der Lage ist, den Lötkolben mal hier oder da nutzen zu können oder auch weiß, wie 'n Schaltplan funktioniert oder eben weiß, wie son größeres System mit verschiedenen Komponenten zusammen agiert.",{"text":37980,"start":6167,"end":6298},"Und wenn wir dann im dritten Semester auf dieser Registerlevelebene ganz tief drinnen waren, können wir danach dann quasi wieder son Stückchen raustauchen und sagen, okay, und jetzt gehen wir auf Bibliotheken und auf komplexere Architekturen bei einem Prozessor und dementsprechend dann irgendwie so in die Richtung von 'nem Industriestandard.",101,{"sentences":37983,"speaker":273,"num_words":37990,"start":6301,"end":6673},[37984,37986,37988],{"text":37985,"start":6301,"end":6376},"Und wenn ihr den Einstieg in die Entwicklung dann macht, was sagt, na ja, da kann man ja schon so ähnlich programmieren, wie Du da jetzt hast wahrscheinlich gewohnt sind.",{"text":37987,"start":6376,"end":6418},"Aber trotzdem ist es ja eine beschränktere, ressourcenärmere Umgebung, auf der man da unterwegs ist.",{"text":37989,"start":6418,"end":6673},"Also unabhängig davon, ob man jetzt mit 8 Megahertz oder auf 'nem Raspberry Pi, das ist ja bei Weitem alles nicht so groß wie der Desktop, von dem man vielleicht kommt, ist dein Eindruck, dass das für die Leute eher einfacher ist oder eher schwerer, sich denn da zurechtzufinden, weil, ne, einfacher, weil und gar nicht so viele Möglichkeiten und man fokussiert sich auf das Wesentliche oder schwerer, weil die Leute halt heutzutage alle verwöhnt sind von der ganzen Rechenleistung, die sie sonst so haben und sich gar nicht mehr darum kümmern, effizient und effektiv zu arbeiten?",142,{"sentences":37992,"speaker":754,"num_words":38003,"start":6677,"end":6990},[37993,37995,37997,37999,38001],{"text":37994,"start":6677,"end":6788},"Na ja, das kommt immer 'n bisschen drauf an, was man versucht zu entwickeln dadurch, dass wir bei so Mikrocontroller Applikationen häufig so Jobs haben wie programmieren Lauflicht oder lasse auf 'nem Display 'n kleinen Text anzeigen oder so.",{"text":37996,"start":6788,"end":6806},"Das ist alles meistens nicht allzu ressourcenfressen.",{"text":37998,"start":6810,"end":6858},"Das heißt, da hab ich relativ viel, also relativ wenig Nebenläufigkeit, relativ wenig Speicher, den ich irgendwie benötige.",{"text":38000,"start":6861,"end":6949},"Aber grade wenn wir zum Beispiel anfangen, 'n Display einzubauen und dann wollen die Studierenden das erste Mal Icons mit einbinden, Da muss einem bewusst werden, oh, die müssen ja irgendwo abgespeichert sein.",{"text":38002,"start":6949,"end":6990},"Irgendwo muss ich ja dieses Bildchen, was da jetzt gerade liegt, irgendwo muss das hin.",112,{"sentences":38005,"speaker":754,"num_words":38012,"start":6990,"end":7240},[38006,38008,38010],{"text":38007,"start":6990,"end":7030},"Wenn ich meinen Stecker ziehe und meinen Computer abnehme, muss das System alleine funktionieren können.",{"text":38009,"start":7033,"end":7086},"Und da tauchen auf einmal dann die ersten Aha Momente auf, wo man merkt, oh, Speicher ist ja doch begrenzt.",{"text":38011,"start":7089,"end":7240},"Oder wenn ich mein erstes Array habe, was da groß angelegt wird und ich auf einmal sagen muss, oh, ich kann ja nicht einfach so 1032 Bit Werte ablegen, weil ich mir damit meinen halben Speicher vorlege, dann fangen auf einmal die Studierenden an und merken, oh, ich muss doch 'n bisschen effizienter beurteilen, als ich das vielleicht bisher machen",95,{"sentences":38014,"speaker":1685,"num_words":754,"start":7243,"end":7248},[38015,38016],{"text":7246,"start":7243,"end":7244},{"text":3646,"start":7244,"end":7248},{"sentences":38018,"speaker":273,"num_words":38027,"start":7250,"end":7417},[38019,38021,38023,38025],{"text":38020,"start":7250,"end":7287},"Und jetzt hast Du schon son paar Projekte genannt, die dann da so umgesetzt werden.",{"text":38022,"start":7287,"end":7306},"Was ist son relativ einfaches Einstiegsobjekt?",{"text":38024,"start":7309,"end":7338},"Was ist so das Hello World Äquivalent für Embedded Softwareentwicklung?",{"text":38026,"start":7342,"end":7417},"Und was ist so das, was ihr am Ende dann baut, wo die Leute dann richtig stolz daneben stehen und sagen, so, jetzt hab ich dir aber mal richtig was geschafft?",62,{"sentences":38029,"speaker":754,"num_words":38040,"start":7421,"end":7640},[38030,38032,38034,38036,38038],{"text":38031,"start":7421,"end":7473},"Ich glaube, das Erste, was wir als unser Hello World immer ansehen, ist, wenn ich eine LED zum Leuchten bringe.",{"text":38033,"start":7473,"end":7562},"Egal welchen neuen Chip ich hab, egal welches Board ich hab, aber wenn es ist immer der Standard am Anfang brauche ich mein Board, ich brauch einen einen Widerstand und eine LED.",{"text":38035,"start":7566,"end":7590},"Und dann bin ich happy, wenn ich die zum Leuchten bringe.",{"text":38037,"start":7590,"end":7618},"Genauso wie das Hello World in meinem in meiner Konsole irgendwo.",{"text":38039,"start":7621,"end":7640},"Und dann kann ich das natürlich immer weiter aufbauen.",83,{"sentences":38042,"speaker":754,"num_words":38049,"start":7643,"end":7990},[38043,38045,38047],{"text":38044,"start":7643,"end":7813},"Ich glaube, das, wo bei uns, in unseren Projekten die Studierenden häufig am beeindruckendsten irgendwann von sind, ist natürlich, wenn Du anfängst, so was wie 'n autonom fahrendes Auto zu bauen, wo Du dann wirklich sehr, sehr viele Sensoren und Aktoren drinnen verbaut hast, wo Du wirklich eine Motorsteuerung und eine Motorregelung implementieren musst, wo Du bestimmte Sensorik hast, die Du auslesen und verarbeiten musst.",{"text":38046,"start":7817,"end":7884},"Stell dir vor, Du hast alleine einen Sensor, der eine komplette Punktewolke an Daten aufnimmt, dir zu sagen, was grade vor dir eigentlich an Objekten ist.",{"text":38048,"start":7886,"end":7990},"Du das das erste Mal dann in der Hand hältst und merkst, das ist ja doch gar nicht alles so einfach, wie ich das vielleicht nur im dritten Semester gelernt hatte und dann so was handelst, das ist, glaub ich, schon 'n cooler Moment.",135,{"sentences":38051,"speaker":273,"num_words":38062,"start":7993,"end":8282},[38052,38054,38056,38058,38060],{"text":38053,"start":7993,"end":8083},"Ich hab nicht viel Erfahrung mit diesem ganzen Embedded Zeug, aber die Erfahrung, die ich gemacht hab, die besteht so zur Hälfte aus, das funktioniert und zur Hand, Hälfte aus, das funktioniert jetzt gar nicht mehr.",{"text":38055,"start":8086,"end":8170},"Weil man ja schon, Du hast so eben dieses LED Beispiel angesprochen, so, da muss man son bisschen Spannung anlegen, da muss man vielleicht auch son Widerstand vorher noch dranhängen und so was alles.",{"text":38057,"start":8174,"end":8191},"Da kann man ja aber auch was kaputtmachen.",{"text":38059,"start":8195,"end":8243},"Ist das für Studenten, wenn die damit anfangen, 'n reelles Problem oder hab ich mich nur besonders dumm angestellt?",{"text":38061,"start":8243,"end":8282},"Also wie viel von eurer Hardware geht da so kaputt im Laufe 1 Seminars?",111,{"sentences":38064,"speaker":754,"num_words":38075,"start":8285,"end":8473},[38065,38067,38069,38071,38073],{"text":38066,"start":8285,"end":8308},"Da hast Du dich, glaube ich, gar nicht dumm angestellt.",{"text":38068,"start":8308,"end":8356},"Das ist der absolute Standard, das soll sogar kaputt gehen, weil Du auch aus so was ja lernst.",{"text":38070,"start":8356,"end":8391},"Es sollte nicht mutwillig passieren, aber im Endeffekt ist das vollkommen normal.",{"text":38072,"start":8391,"end":8435},"Grade LEDs haben wir unendlich viele auf Vorrat, weil da klar ist, die gehen ständig kaputt.",{"text":38074,"start":8438,"end":8473},"Genauso wie verschiedenste andere Komponenten, wo Du einfach weißt, die sind 'n bisschen anfälliger.",70,{"sentences":38077,"speaker":754,"num_words":38087,"start":8477,"end":8758},[38078,38080,38082,38084,38085],{"text":38079,"start":8477,"end":8561},"Du versuchst den Studierenden aber im besten Fall vorher die Basics mitzugeben, sodass sie nicht komplett unerfahren in das Ganze einsteigen, sondern schon auch wissen, was sie für Fehler machen könnten.",{"text":38081,"start":8564,"end":8625},"Nichtsdestotrotz ist es natürlich wahnsinnig schwer, auf sonem System das Programmieren oder das Softwareentwickeln zu lernen, weil eben dann neue Fehlerquelle dazukommt.",{"text":38083,"start":8628,"end":8694},"Wenn ich wenn ich in Java Script unterwegs bin, dann hab ich quasi ich und mein Browser, wir sind unterwegs und da läuft eben meine Applikation irgendwie.",{"text":3646,"start":8694,"end":8697},{"text":38086,"start":8699,"end":8758},"Wenn ich jetzt aber diese Blackbox wirklich vor mir habe, dann weiß ich quasi gar nicht, was ist denn das eigentlich, was da grade drinnen passiert?",107,{"sentences":38089,"speaker":754,"num_words":37839,"start":8761,"end":8939},[38090,38092,38094,38096,38098],{"text":38091,"start":8761,"end":8790},"Ich hab quasi gar keine Möglichkeit, da reinzuschauen und irgendwie gut zu debuggen.",{"text":38093,"start":8793,"end":8863},"Da gibt's natürlich auch viele andere Möglichkeiten, wie man dann damit umgehen kann, aber das ist die größte Problematik am Anfang für Studierende, da rauszufinden, wo der Fehler liegt.",{"text":38095,"start":8866,"end":8896},"Ist es Code, den ich grade erst neu lerne zu entwickeln?",{"text":38097,"start":8896,"end":8915},"Ist es Hardware, die falsch konfiguriert wurde?",{"text":38099,"start":8919,"end":8939},"Oder noch schlimmer, ist es Hardware, die kaputt ist?",{"sentences":38101,"speaker":754,"num_words":37704,"start":8939,"end":8984},[38102],{"text":38103,"start":8939,"end":8984},"Wo ich noch so lange die LED auch umdrehen kann und trotzdem funktioniert sie nicht, weil sie einfach kaputt ist.",{"sentences":38105,"speaker":294,"num_words":38108,"start":8986,"end":9195},[38106],{"text":38107,"start":8986,"end":9195},"Du hattest eben gesagt, so, ne, in eurem Lehrplan deinem dritten Semester geht dir stärker so dann auf, was steckt irgendwie in einzelnen Registern, wie hieß das alles in sonem Glaubst Du, das wird ein Bestandteil der nächsten Jahre bleiben, weil man das als als Grundwissen irgendwie braucht oder entwickelt sich alles so schnell weiter, dass man letztendlich auch schon mit soner Abstraktionsebene anfangen kann und und diese Tiefe gar nicht mehr brauch in der Zukunft.",76,{"sentences":38110,"speaker":754,"num_words":38119,"start":9199,"end":9485},[38111,38113,38115,38117],{"text":38112,"start":9199,"end":9276},"Na ja, das ist son bisschen so, als würde man fragen, brauch ich heute im Physikunterricht noch das Uri Modell, zu verstehen, wie quasi Strom, Spannung und Widerstand zusammenhängen?",{"text":38114,"start":9280,"end":9312},"Prinzipiell grade in Zeiten von LLMs brauch ich das vermutlich nicht.",{"text":38116,"start":9314,"end":9391},"Es ist aber schon ganz praktisch zu wissen, was ich tue, wenn ich dann doch irgendwo meinen Fehler detektieren muss, der vielleicht nicht von AI oder so gefunden wird oder sogar von AI eingebaut wird.",{"text":38118,"start":9395,"end":9485},"Und von daher, ich hab tatsächlich jetzt die Erfahrung gemacht im letzten Jahr oder in den in den 2 Jahren, dass ich immer mehr Studierende aus der Kerninformatik zu mir als Wahlpflichtmodul ins Wahlpflichtmodul bekomme.",110,{"sentences":38121,"speaker":1685,"num_words":273,"start":9485,"end":9488},[38122],{"text":3646,"start":9485,"end":9488},{"sentences":38124,"speaker":754,"num_words":38003,"start":9488,"end":9775},[38125,38127,38129,38131,38133],{"text":38126,"start":9488,"end":9530},"Deshalb die machen das freiwillig, weil die merken, sie verstehen ansonsten nicht, wie eigentlich 'n Computer funktioniert.",{"text":38128,"start":9533,"end":9623},"Und wenn ich das einmal auf dieser tiefen Ebene und ich hab das auch lange nicht verstanden, ich hab das geliebt, diesen Aha Moment zu haben und zu wissen, ah okay, ich schreibe jetzt eine bestimmte Speicheradresse.",{"text":38130,"start":9627,"end":9667},"In Wirklichkeit landet's gar nicht im Speicher, sondern in Wirklichkeit landet's quasi in 'nem in 'nem Register.",{"text":38132,"start":9667,"end":9738},"Und das Register wiederum hat eine kleine Schaltung verbaut, die dafür sorgt, dass jetzt auf einmal dieser Pegel, der vorher an dem Pin High Pegel wird.",{"text":38134,"start":9740,"end":9775},"Wenn ich das einmal verstanden hab, dann versteh ich endlich, wie 'n Computerintern funktionieren kann.",{"sentences":38136,"speaker":754,"num_words":38145,"start":9778,"end":9959},[38137,38139,38141,38143],{"text":38138,"start":9778,"end":9844},"Weil vorher ist das immer die Frage, wie kommt eigentlich diese Software, die ich schreibe, dahingehend zu 'nem, da hab ich eine App, die auf meinem Computer läuft.",{"text":38140,"start":9844,"end":9860},"Da passiert ja irgendwelche komische Magie.",{"text":38142,"start":9863,"end":9889},"Ich schreibe Code und auf einmal seh ich eine coole Anwendung.",{"text":38144,"start":9892,"end":9959},"Und auf dieser dieser sehr niedrigen Ebene hab ich eben so wenig drumherum, dass ich mich darauf fokussieren kann, wie eigentlich diese ganzen Peripherie und Komponenten miteinander interagieren.",73,{"sentences":38147,"speaker":294,"num_words":37839,"start":9962,"end":10140},[38148,38150,38152,38154,38156],{"text":38149,"start":9962,"end":9991},"Und wie ist so der Standard oder der Zugang, den man so hat?",{"text":38151,"start":9991,"end":10048},"Also ich mein, Du hast eben gesagt, so, wenn's weiter hochgeht, dann gibt's irgendwelche Industriestandards, die es dann da grundsätzlich gibt.",{"text":38153,"start":10051,"end":10064},"Was ist so auf der Ebene vorher?",{"text":38155,"start":10064,"end":10095},"Also gibt's irgendwie eine, wie kriegt man Zugriff zu sonem Chip?",{"text":38157,"start":10095,"end":10140},"Also ich les die, haben die eine USB Buchse, die schließ ich an und alles ist gut.",{"sentences":38159,"speaker":294,"num_words":38168,"start":10143,"end":10361},[38160,38162,38164,38166],{"text":38161,"start":10143,"end":10227},"Gibt es ein gemeinsames Tooling, was irgendwie bei allen gleich ist und gibt's oder ist jeder von der Struktur gleich, sodass ich weiß, wenn ich dahin was schicke, dann passiert irgendwie immer das Gleiche.",{"text":38163,"start":10227,"end":10250},"Also was son bisschen, welche Standards gibt es?",{"text":38165,"start":10250,"end":10348},"Wie sehr entwickeln die sich weiter und und was brauch ich, na ja, ich weiß nicht, was 'n sehr simpler, keine Ahnung, wie ein sehr simpler Chip heißt oder ein Mikrocontroller heißt, aber was brauch ich grundsätzlich, damit irgendwie anzufangen?",{"text":38167,"start":10350,"end":10361},"Was was was gibt's da heutzutage?",88,{"sentences":38170,"speaker":754,"num_words":37923,"start":10364,"end":10708},[38171,38173,38175,38177,38179],{"text":38172,"start":10364,"end":10423},"Na ja, ihr kennt ja prinzipiell die Problematik, ich hab jetzt hier gerade mein iPhone neben mir liegen und ich hab immer noch 'n Lightninganschluss.",{"text":38174,"start":10427,"end":10480},"Wie lange wir gebraucht haben, endlich mal USB-c durchgesetzt zu bekommen, das ist leider bei Microcontrollern genau dasselbe Problem.",{"text":38176,"start":10480,"end":10532},"Das heißt, ja, wir haben da natürlich eine standardisierte USB-Buchse drin und auch da kommt so langsam USB-c rein.",{"text":38178,"start":10535,"end":10587},"Nichtsdestotrotz ist es leider so, dass die ganzen Hersteller sehr restriktiv unterwegs sind, was die Kooperation mit anderen Herstellern angeht.",{"text":38180,"start":10590,"end":10708},"Und es ist leider nicht so offen, wie man sich's wünschen würde, dass man sagen kann, ach, ich hab da eine Toolchain und dann funktioniert das für alle, Sondern es ist meistens so, dass die dass die Hersteller ihren ganzen, ihre ganze Toolchain proproprietär draus geben.",{"sentences":38182,"speaker":754,"num_words":38193,"start":10708,"end":11096},[38183,38185,38187,38189,38191],{"text":38184,"start":10708,"end":10749},"Das funktioniert genau für diesen einen Chip beziehungsweise für diese eine Family oder für alles von dem Hersteller.",{"text":38186,"start":10753,"end":10768},"Und da ist dann noch die Grenze.",{"text":38188,"start":10768,"end":10890},"Das heißt, wenn ich anfange mit 'nem Chip von, ich benutz zum Beispiel bei mir grade die Sachen vom Mikrochip, wenn ich deren Toolchain nutze, dann kann ich damit wiederum nicht einen Chip von STMicro Electronics propagieren, weil die wieder komplett ihr eigenes geschlossenes System haben.",{"text":38190,"start":10892,"end":10933},"Leider sind wir da sogar an vielen Stellen so weit gebunden, dass das Ganze sogar Windows funktioniert.",{"text":38192,"start":10936,"end":11096},"Das heißt, wir können noch nicht mal auf 'nem Mac oder auf 'nem Linux System arbeiten zum Bedauern all unserer Studierenden, die dann sich noch irgendwie immer in Zweitsystem einrichten müssen, weil denen einerseits beigebracht wird, dass sie aufm Linux System irgendwie lernen sollen, wie c ordentlich funktioniert und gleichzeitig aber dann eben Windows brauchen, nur die Toolchain nutzen zu können.",149,{"sentences":38195,"speaker":1685,"num_words":273,"start":11096,"end":11098},[38196],{"text":3646,"start":11096,"end":11098},{"sentences":38198,"speaker":754,"num_words":37799,"start":11101,"end":11212},[38199,38201,38203],{"text":38200,"start":11101,"end":11118},"Und die wenigsten Hersteller arbeiten da gut zusammen.",{"text":38202,"start":11118,"end":11135},"Es gibt aber zum Glück mittlerweile Standards.",{"text":38204,"start":11138,"end":11212},"Es gibt so was wie zum Beispiel die Arm Limited, die haben sich irgendwann mal hingesetzt und eine Art Lizenzierungssystem rausgebracht für einen Grundarchitektursystem in sonem Chip.",{"sentences":38206,"speaker":1685,"num_words":1685,"start":11212,"end":11221},[38207,38208],{"text":3646,"start":11212,"end":11215},{"text":38209,"start":11215,"end":11221},"Das sind",{"sentences":38211,"speaker":754,"num_words":38222,"start":11221,"end":11445},[38212,38214,38216,38218,38220],{"text":38213,"start":11221,"end":11229},"dann die Cortexprozessoren.",{"text":38215,"start":11233,"end":11269},"Und bei denen wiederum ist es dann so, dass die von Herstellern sozusagen zugekauft werden, diese Architektur.",{"text":38217,"start":11269,"end":11352},"Dann dürfen die diesen Kern quasi so mit implementieren in dem Mikrocontroller und der ist dann eben nach 'nem bestimmten standardisierten Verfahren, sodass da quasi auch eine gewisse Kompatibilität zwischen Herstellern ist.",{"text":38219,"start":11355,"end":11406},"Das ist aber alles auch nur 'n semikooles Konzept, weil am Ende das Ganze wieder sehr, sehr viel Geld kostet.",{"text":38221,"start":11409,"end":11445},"Das heißt, die Hersteller müssen da Lizenzen für kaufen, das finden die nicht so gut.",87,{"sentences":38224,"speaker":754,"num_words":37799,"start":11447,"end":11565},[38225,38227],{"text":38226,"start":11447,"end":11514},"Und das wird momentan son bisschen abgelöst von Risk Five, weil das grade groß im Kommen ist, dass es quasi einen offenen Standard geben soll, Mhm.",{"text":38228,"start":11516,"end":11565},"Sodass eben dieses Lizenzierungskonzept wegfällt und Hersteller künftig besser untereinander oder eine höhere Kompatibilität untereinander hinbekommen.",{"sentences":38230,"speaker":294,"num_words":38241,"start":11568,"end":11739},[38231,38233,38235,38237,38239],{"text":38232,"start":11568,"end":11584},"Du hast grade Toolchain erwähnt.",{"text":38234,"start":11587,"end":11599},"Wie kann ich mir das vorstellen?",{"text":38236,"start":11599,"end":11677},"Also ja, ich brauch irgendwie Windows, hast Du ja schon gesagt, aber es ist, also was bietet diese Toolchain schon von Haus aus und und wie sind da meine ersten Schritte?",{"text":38238,"start":11677,"end":11723},"Was, jetzt hab ich so, ist das 'n Editor, ist das eine tolle IDI mit?",{"text":38240,"start":11727,"end":11739},"Wie wie weit sind wir da?",63,{"sentences":38243,"speaker":754,"num_words":38254,"start":11742,"end":12105},[38244,38246,38248,38250,38252],{"text":38245,"start":11742,"end":11762},"Ja, wir können quasi ganz vorne anfangen beim Editor.",{"text":38247,"start":11762,"end":11839},"Da haben wir meistens schon als Erstes dann irgendwie, dass ich eine Art entweder Eclipse Derivate habe, also irgendwas, was was auf Eclipse an sich aufbaut oder eben auf Visual Studio.",{"text":38249,"start":11842,"end":11898},"Das sind so meistens die beiden großen Standards und die Hersteller modifizieren sich das dann son bisschen, dass das für deren Controller quasi passt.",{"text":38251,"start":11901,"end":11961},"Was schon wieder 'n bisschen nervig ist, weil das teilweise bedeutet, Du musst dir quasi mehrfach eine Visual Studio Version für verschiedene Hersteller installieren.",{"text":38253,"start":11964,"end":12105},"Wenn ich dann da mein Programm drinne habe, meinen Code schreibe, dann hab ich da quasi den nächsten Step, weil ich muss ja irgendwie den Code, den ich geschrieben habe, jetzt rüberschieben, also irgendwie cross, im Gegensatz zum Compilieren für meine eigene Architektur auf meinem System und muss das quasi dann auf dem System lauffähig machen.",144,{"sentences":38256,"speaker":754,"num_words":38267,"start":12105,"end":12319},[38257,38259,38261,38263,38265],{"text":38258,"start":12105,"end":12126},"Das heißt, ich cross compiliere und ich flashe.",{"text":38260,"start":12130,"end":12203},"Das heißt, einerseits, ich baue quasi sozusagen meinen 11 beziehungsweise, das, was sonst auf meinem Computer quasi als, sagen wir mal, unter Windows Excel liefe, das.",{"text":38262,"start":12207,"end":12251},"Das muss ich quasi dann irgendwie auf mein System schieben, also flashen, und da kann es dann ausgeführt werden.",{"text":38264,"start":12253,"end":12293},"Und dafür sind tatsächlich mehrere Teilprogrammschritte notwendig, eben von einmal kompilieren bis hin zu rüberschieben.",{"text":38266,"start":12297,"end":12319},"Das sind meistens Extraprogramme, die dann schon aneinandergebunden sind.",77,{"sentences":38269,"speaker":754,"num_words":38272,"start":12319,"end":12384},[38270],{"text":38271,"start":12319,"end":12384},"Das ist alles schon vorkonfiguriert, meistens kann man da wenig falsch machen, weil die Hersteller das eben in diesen modifizierten IDIs dann schon direkt verbaut haben.",26,{"sentences":38274,"speaker":273,"num_words":37593,"start":12387,"end":12451},[38275],{"text":38276,"start":12387,"end":12451},"Will ich das immer cross competierenden und flashen oder will ich das nicht auch irgendwie mal bei mir lokal in sone Art Simulator ausführen?",{"sentences":38278,"speaker":754,"num_words":38145,"start":12454,"end":12642},[38279,38281,38283,38285,38287],{"text":38280,"start":12454,"end":12472},"Gibt's in manchen IDIs auch mit dabei.",{"text":38282,"start":12472,"end":12502},"Das heißt, die Hersteller liefern auch teilweise dann 'n Simulator mit dazu.",{"text":38284,"start":12505,"end":12537},"Ich bin großer Gegner von Simulatoren, das ist aber auch mein Forschungsprojekt.",{"text":38286,"start":12542,"end":12586},"Aber grundsätzlich ist das natürlich nicht schlecht, erst mal die Sachen bei sich aufm eigenen System laufen zu haben.",{"text":38288,"start":12589,"end":12642},"Trotzdem würdest Du aber ja nicht für deine Architektur kompilieren, weil Du ja zum Beispiel 'n komplett anderen Befehlssatz auf deinem Rechner hast.",{"sentences":38290,"speaker":754,"num_words":37806,"start":12642,"end":12686},[38291],{"text":38292,"start":12642,"end":12686},"Das heißt, deine CPU funktioniert ja anders als die CPU der Prozessor, der in dem Mikrocontrollersystem verbaut ist.",{"sentences":38294,"speaker":273,"num_words":37615,"start":12688,"end":12700},[38295],{"text":38296,"start":12688,"end":12700},"Wenn ich's emulieren würde, dann.",{"sentences":38298,"speaker":754,"num_words":38309,"start":12704,"end":13041},[38299,38301,38303,38305,38307],{"text":38300,"start":12704,"end":12819},"Wenn Du versuchen würdest, jetzt den normalen Code, so wie Du ihn geschrieben hast, für dein System auszuführen, dann kannst Du dir ja son bisschen vorstellen, jetzt beim Beispiel von meinem Mikrochip zu bleiben, ich nutz da extra 'n Chip, der hat nur 135 Instruktionen.",{"text":38302,"start":12822,"end":12842},"Ich sag immer, das ist 'n bisschen besserer Taschenrechner.",{"text":38304,"start":12845,"end":12901},"Nichtsdestotrotz kannst Du mit diesen 135 Instruktionen jegliche komplexe Programme bauen, die man sich vorstellen kann, weil ich brauch ja gar nicht so viel.",{"text":38306,"start":12901,"end":12988},"Ich brauch 'n bisschen was an Arithmetik, ich brauch 'n bisschen was was an logischen Operationen, ich brauch 'n bisschen was an Speicherverwaltung, also Sachen, die den Speicher legen und wieder rausnehmen.",{"text":38308,"start":12991,"end":13041},"Und ich brauch 'n bisschen was für beziehungsweise Codestrukturierung, dass ich in der Lage bin, Jumps und so was auszuführen.",130,{"sentences":38311,"speaker":754,"num_words":38241,"start":13044,"end":13196},[38312,38314],{"text":38313,"start":13044,"end":13065},"Und sehr viel mehr braucht sone CPU eigentlich nicht zwangsweise.",{"text":38315,"start":13068,"end":13196},"Aber wenn ich jetzt 'n Programm nehme, in c schreibe und das auf 'nem normalen Computer, auf 'ner x-sechsundachtzig-Architektur oder Ähnlichem ausführen würde, dann würde das, was ich da kompiliert habe, am Ende komplett anders aussehen als das, was ich auf meinen Mikrocontroller schieben würde, weil's eben, weil die Chips so unterschiedlich sind.",{"sentences":38317,"speaker":294,"num_words":38322,"start":13198,"end":13319},[38318,38320],{"text":38319,"start":13198,"end":13295},"Und dieses Set beispielsweise an Funktionen, die son Chip dann mitbringt oder Instruktionen, das ist dann was, was in der IDI hinterlegt ist, also wo Du dann die Unterstützung hast irgendwie, Du entwickelst jetzt für diesen Chip.",{"text":38321,"start":13298,"end":13319},"Und das in der Regel mit c Genau.",45,{"sentences":38324,"speaker":754,"num_words":38334,"start":13319,"end":13576},[38325,38327,38329,38330,38332],{"text":38326,"start":13319,"end":13362},"Also das ist auch son bisschen in der, leider noch nicht weit genug, aber son bisschen im Kommen.",{"text":38328,"start":13362,"end":13407},"Ganz früher kennt man das vielleicht noch, Mikrocontrollersysteme waren lange so die Domäne von von E-Technik-Studierten.",{"text":3646,"start":13411,"end":13412},{"text":38331,"start":13412,"end":13493},"Das heißt, das hat gar nicht so den Informatikkontext gehabt, weil man eben immer so nah an der Hardware war, dass man gesagt hat, ne, das ist zu weit weg für normale Informatikstudierte.",{"text":38333,"start":13496,"end":13576},"Und mittlerweile ist es aber zum Glück so, dass wir von 'ner Sampler Programmierung sind zu C-Programmierung, c-Programmierung, was so der Standard ist und sogar schon son bisschen c plus plus haben.",100,{"sentences":38336,"speaker":754,"num_words":38346,"start":13578,"end":13803},[38337,38339,38341,38343,38345],{"text":38338,"start":13578,"end":13645},"Hat wieder son bisschen seine Eigenheiten, manche Sachen von c plus plus sind da nicht zu 100 Prozent aufm Mikrocontroller gut zu nutzen oder schön zu nutzen.",{"text":38340,"start":13645,"end":13664},"Eigentlich funktioniert das aber ziemlich, ziemlich gut.",{"text":38342,"start":13666,"end":13761},"Das ist, glaub ich, einfach eine Sache der Entwicklung, dass momentan die Leute, die diese Systeme gebaut haben, natürlich noch nicht so tief in dieser c plus plus Geschichte drinnen sind, weil die haben das über Jahrzehnte mit oder c gemacht.",{"text":38344,"start":13761,"end":13799},"Und dementsprechend gibt's da auch keinen großen großen Drang, das jetzt momentan irgendwie zu verändern.",{"text":3646,"start":13802,"end":13803},91,{"sentences":38348,"speaker":754,"num_words":273,"start":13805,"end":13806},[38349],{"text":1411,"start":13805,"end":13806},{"sentences":38351,"speaker":273,"num_words":37831,"start":13809,"end":13896},[38352],{"text":38353,"start":13809,"end":13896},"Aber es gibt doch auch so Sachen wie Micro Python und so was, was ja dann noch high leveliger wäre, aber das ist noch sehr niedrig oder wieso hast Du das grade nicht aufgeführt?",{"sentences":38355,"speaker":754,"num_words":38193,"start":13899,"end":14264},[38356,38358,38360,38362,38364],{"text":38357,"start":13899,"end":13936},"Na ja, die Frage ist, was so der Anwendungszweck von Micropyten am Ende ist.",{"text":38359,"start":13936,"end":13995},"Wenn ich anfange, Micropyten auf meinem Mikrocontroller laufen zu lassen, dann mach ich das vermutlich vor allen Dingen, weil ich was ausprobieren möchte.",{"text":38361,"start":13995,"end":14103},"Aber ich bezweifle bei den meisten Produkten, dass es sinnvoll wäre, da auf Micropyten am Ende zu setzen, weil ich einfach zu wenig, weil ich dann wieder zu weit weg bin von meiner Hardware und zu wenig Kontrolle darüber habe, was da eigentlich passiert.",{"text":38363,"start":14105,"end":14200},"Wenn wir jetzt mal irgendwie 'n dummes Beispiel nehmen, ich baue einen Auto, wo ich einen Airbag System drinne habe, dann kommt ja am Ende nicht nur, welche Sprache nutz ich, sondern dann kommen ja auch noch zum Beispiel Echtzeitrestriktionen da rein.",{"text":38365,"start":14202,"end":14264},"Und da möcht ich ungerne, dass irgend eine sehr, sehr high levelige Geschichte wie zum Beispiel Micropyten dafür sorgt, dass mein Airbag nicht schnell genug auslöst.",{"sentences":38367,"speaker":1685,"num_words":273,"start":14267,"end":14268},[38368],{"text":3646,"start":14267,"end":14268},{"sentences":38370,"speaker":754,"num_words":38377,"start":14268,"end":14410},[38371,38373,38375],{"text":38372,"start":14268,"end":14371},"Aber wenn ich jetzt wieder im Make-up Bereich unterwegs bin und sage, ich bau mir für zu Hause mein eigenes Homeautomationssystem und ich hab irgend 'n Sensor an irgend 'nem ESP 32 hängen, wieso soll ich das nicht mit Micropyten machen?",{"text":38374,"start":14371,"end":14399},"Da passiert so Safety Security mäßig wahrscheinlich nichts Schlimmes.",{"text":38376,"start":14402,"end":14410},"Also why not.",53,{"sentences":38379,"speaker":273,"num_words":38390,"start":14414,"end":14653},[38380,38382,38384,38386,38388],{"text":38381,"start":14414,"end":14423},"Berühmte letzte Worte.",{"text":38383,"start":14423,"end":14433},"Da passiert nix Schlimmes.",{"text":38385,"start":14435,"end":14475},"Ist aber vielleicht 'n ganz interessanter Punkt, wenn Du grade schon so Security und so was angesprochen hast.",{"text":38387,"start":14477,"end":14596},"Wir kommen ja hier eher so aus diesem Webbereich auch, ja, wo Security ja eigentlich nur ist, ja, Du musst halt auf das aufpassen, was Du so nach außen expost, damit dir niemand deine API und deinen Server kaputtmachen kann, mit dem Du grade spielst.",{"text":38389,"start":14599,"end":14653},"Und das ist ja natürlich jetzt im Bereich ganz anders, weil da ja natürlich also irgendein Zugang zu Hardware quasi immer da ist.",93,{"sentences":38392,"speaker":273,"num_words":38397,"start":14653,"end":14790},[38393,38395],{"text":38394,"start":14653,"end":14743},"Also da gibt's jetzt vielleicht nicht in jedem Auto Entertainment System den USB-C-Port, wo ich dran kann oder so, ja, aber zumindest hab ich ja quasi vollen Zugriff auf die ganze Kiste drum herum, so.",{"text":38396,"start":14745,"end":14790},"Was kommen da für Bedenken oder Maßnahmen mit rein, die's vielleicht sonst außerhalb vom Embedded nicht gibt?",52,{"sentences":38399,"speaker":754,"num_words":38410,"start":14794,"end":15165},[38400,38402,38404,38406,38408],{"text":38401,"start":14794,"end":14806},"Das ist auch ganz, ganz spannend.",{"text":38403,"start":14808,"end":14930},"Da gab's früher schon immer die Problematik, dass es bestimmte Autos beispielsweise gab, bei denen die Leitungen so verlegt waren, dass Du in der Lage warst, an 'ner bestimmten Stelle zu bohren, also in die Karosserie zu bohren und dann konntest Du auf einmal den Canbus mit snippen.",{"text":38405,"start":14934,"end":14961},"Das heißt, Du hattest auf einmal die Möglichkeit In dem Ohr.",{"text":38407,"start":14964,"end":15099},"In dem hattest die Möglichkeit, in dem Auto Nachrichten, die unverschlüsselt waren, weil niemand auf die Idee gekommen ist, dass da überhaupt jemand drankäme, mit mitzuhören und am Ende zum Beispiel rauszubekommen, was in dem Auto genau passiert oder sogar das Auto fernzusteuern, das Auto aufzuschließen oder, oder, oder.",{"text":38409,"start":15102,"end":15165},"Von daher, je nachdem, in welchem System wir da unterwegs sind, haben wir natürlich verschiedenste Sicherheitsanforderungen und das kann weniger bis sehr, sehr gravierend sein.",139,{"sentences":38412,"speaker":754,"num_words":38421,"start":15165,"end":15626},[38413,38415,38417,38419],{"text":38414,"start":15165,"end":15449},"Je nachdem Grade wenn wir in Autos, Flugzeugen oder sonst wo unterwegs sind, dann ist das natürlich äußerst wichtig, dass wir drei- oder vier- oder fünfmal abgesichert sind und die Sachen, die wir da machen, auch dementsprechend halt meistens gar nicht mal irgendwie auf dem allerneusten Stand sind, also nicht die neueste Technologie nutzen, sondern grade in Steuergeräten ist es zum Beispiel so, wenn ich irgendwo im Maschinenbau unterwegs bin und 'n Robotersystem oder so was hab oder sone SPS Steuerung für Maschinen, dann sind die auf super, also für mich, superalten Architekturen aufgebaut, weil diese Chips dann eben Service haben für 10, für 20 Jahre.",{"text":38416,"start":15453,"end":15533},"Dann ist es eigentlich längst möglich, mit viel, viel mehr Ressourcen zu arbeiten, aber man sagt sich, wir bleiben lieber bei dem System, weil da sind wir, das ist sicher, das haben wir getestet.",{"text":38418,"start":15536,"end":15548},"Das ist jetzt auch lange unterstützt.",{"text":38420,"start":15551,"end":15626},"Und das heißt, wir haben im Vergleich zum Web, wo ich auch sagen würde, da hast Du wieder ganz andere Probleme, was Sicherheit angeht, schon auch relativ hohe Sicherheitsanforderungen bei Applikationen.",177,{"sentences":38423,"speaker":273,"num_words":38430,"start":15629,"end":15950},[38424,38426,38428],{"text":38425,"start":15629,"end":15687},"Aber trotzdem, wie sieht denn sone Security Architektur aus, wenn mein Angreifer im Worst Case der Zugriff auf auf alles hat, so.",{"text":38427,"start":15687,"end":15774},"Er kann er kann mein Binary nehmen und irgendwie dekompilieren, er kann meinen Traffic vielleicht mitlesen, er kann meine Verschlüsselung aushebeln, weil er die Zertifikate aus den Systemen kennt.",{"text":38429,"start":15778,"end":15950},"Gibt's da überhaupt dann Sicherheit oder beschränkt sich das quasi nur auf, na ja, wir versuchen halt, ne, wie Du grade gesagt hast, dass jemand, der den Traffic jetzt mitlesen will, das vielleicht nicht unbedingt kann oder dass sich kein zusätzlicher Teilnehmer irgendwie in dieses Netzwerk, in diese Infrastruktur mit reinklingt, aber also am Ende, wenn jemand Zugriff auf alles hat, kann man sich ja kaum dagegen wehren, oder?",120,{"sentences":38432,"speaker":754,"num_words":38443,"start":15953,"end":16156},[38433,38435,38437,38439,38441],{"text":38434,"start":15953,"end":15967},"Das ist leider sehr häufig so, ja.",{"text":38436,"start":15967,"end":16005},"Also Du kannst immer irgendwie damit arbeiten, natürlich irgendwie verschlüsselt unterwegs zu sein an ganz vielen Stellen.",{"text":38438,"start":16008,"end":16054},"Wir haben bei uns zum Beispiel tatsächlich 'n Mastermodul, wo die Idee ist, das nennt sich Reverse Engineering.",{"text":38440,"start":16057,"end":16120},"Und da kriegst Du einfach 'n riesiges beziehungsweise kriegst 'n riesigen Codeabschnitt, aber eben nicht als Code, sondern eben eigentlich nur als Nullen und Einsen.",{"text":38442,"start":16123,"end":16156},"Und dann musst Du das dekompilieren und musst rauskriegen, was das eigentlich tut.",80,{"sentences":38445,"speaker":754,"num_words":38145,"start":16159,"end":16353},[38446,38448,38450],{"text":38447,"start":16159,"end":16260},"Und innerhalb von einem Semester schaffen das, normalerweise Studierende so in 'ner Gruppe von 7 bis 10 Leuten komplett rauszukriegen, wie das System funktioniert, welche Funktionen wo benutzt wurden, welche Texte wann wie wo geprinted wurden.",{"text":38449,"start":16263,"end":16324},"Das heißt, das ist schon, wenn Du ohne Verschlüsselung arbeitest, relativ leicht möglich, am Ende son Gerät komplett nachzubauen und rauszukriegen, was das eigentlich tut.",{"text":38451,"start":16326,"end":16353},"Aber da kannst Du dich ja quasi fast nirgendwo groß gegen wehren.",{"sentences":38453,"speaker":273,"num_words":38460,"start":16356,"end":16571},[38454,38456,38458],{"text":38455,"start":16356,"end":16448},"Also ich denk da so an an Industrieanlagen oder so was oder jetzt, weiß nicht, Flugzeugsteuergeräte, keine Ahnung was, wo das ja auch einfach 'n 'n Betriebsgeheimnis sein kann, was da drauf ist, so, ja.",{"text":38457,"start":16448,"end":16547},"Und jetzt verkaufe ich, weiß nicht, Airbus, hier mein Steuergerät und dann gucken die sich an, sagen, ja danke, wir kaufen genau 1 und die anderen 999, die wir brauchen, die machen wir selbst, so.",{"text":38459,"start":16547,"end":16571},"Also da da kam das grade so her, weißt",79,{"sentences":38462,"speaker":1685,"num_words":754,"start":16571,"end":16578},[38463,38464],{"text":16576,"start":16571,"end":16574},{"text":16580,"start":16574,"end":16578},{"sentences":38466,"speaker":754,"num_words":38471,"start":16578,"end":16689},[38467,38469],{"text":38468,"start":16578,"end":16635},"Jetzt ist son bisschen aber die Frage, wie viel Aufwand Du wirklich investieren kannst und willst, son komplexes Gerät am Ende nachzubauen.",{"text":38470,"start":16639,"end":16689},"Das ist mit Sicherheit an vielen Stellen möglich, aber meistens mit sonem hohen Aufwand verbunden, dass es wieder nicht mehr rentabel wird.",44,{"sentences":38473,"speaker":1685,"num_words":1685,"start":16689,"end":16697},[38474,38475],{"text":1411,"start":16689,"end":16691},{"text":38476,"start":16691,"end":16697},"Ich hab",{"sentences":38478,"speaker":754,"num_words":38027,"start":16697,"end":16865},[38479,38481,38483,38485,38487],{"text":38480,"start":16697,"end":16724},"da leider so ein Beispiel, was mir persönlich immer sehr wehtut.",{"text":38482,"start":16724,"end":16762},"Unsere Studierende kriegen von uns häufig 'n Logic Analyzer an die Hand.",{"text":38484,"start":16762,"end":16803},"Das ist 'n Gerät von, ich kann die Firma nie aussprechen, ich glaub, sie heißt SALAEE.",{"text":38486,"start":16803,"end":16846},"Und dieses Gerät kostet, wenn Du das bei denen kaufst, irgendwas die, ich glaube, 500 Euro.",{"text":38488,"start":16849,"end":16865},"Die Software von denen dazu ist kostenlos.",{"sentences":38490,"speaker":754,"num_words":38501,"start":16868,"end":17120},[38491,38493,38495,38497,38499],{"text":38492,"start":16868,"end":16953},"Jetzt schließt Du das per USB an deinen Computer an, das Gerät erkennt, was Du da hast, dann kannst Du damit an deinen Aufbau gehen und kannst rauskriegen, wo welche Signale grade high und low sind.",{"text":38494,"start":16953,"end":16975},"Interpretiert dir das und sagt dir welche Messages?",{"text":38496,"start":16978,"end":17011},"Also ja, kannst Du auch für Böses einsetzen, aber auch schön für Gutes.",{"text":38498,"start":17014,"end":17069},"Jetzt gibt's andere Hersteller, die genau dieses Gerät einfach nachgebaut haben und das kriegst Du auf Amazon, ich glaube, für 10 oder 15 Euro.",{"text":38500,"start":17071,"end":17120},"Die Software gibt's aber ja kostenlos, weil der Hersteller ja so nett ist und sagt, na ja, Du brauchst ja unser Gerät dafür.",104,{"sentences":38503,"speaker":754,"num_words":38512,"start":17123,"end":17452},[38504,38506,38508,38510],{"text":38505,"start":17123,"end":17193},"Das heißt, diese Hardware Piraterie, die da im im im im Umlauf ist, tut mir immer sehr, sehr weh, weil ich einerseits natürlich denke, das sollte nicht so sein.",{"text":38507,"start":17195,"end":17312},"Ich find's aber wieder schön für die Studierenden und deshalb empfehl ich ihnen trotzdem, immer sich so was zu kaufen, weil die sich für 10 oder 15 Euro zu Hause so was hinlegen können und damit arbeiten können, weil niemand kann sich das einfach so mal während des Studiums leisten.",{"text":38509,"start":17315,"end":17398},"Und ist jetzt auch leider nicht so, dass wir im Labor die Kapazität hätten für jeden Studierenden bei uns, einfach mal son Gerät hinzustellen, sondern wir haben davon dann auch nur 2 oder 3 Stück.",{"text":38511,"start":17401,"end":17452},"Also man muss das immer mit sonem lachenden weinenden Auge sehen, aber es ist immer relativ schwierig, Produkte zu schützen.",134,{"sentences":38514,"speaker":273,"num_words":38523,"start":17455,"end":17626},[38515,38517,38519,38521],{"text":38516,"start":17455,"end":17490},"Du hast vorhin auch angesprochen, dass diese Produkte ja teilweise Jahre und Jahrzehnte unterstützt werden.",{"text":38518,"start":17492,"end":17515},"Wie sieht denn da son Upgrade Pfad aus?",{"text":38520,"start":17515,"end":17572},"Also wenn ich jetzt 10000 Steuergeräte an VW geliefert hab und die sind alle verbaut, wie wie werden die denn geupdatet?",{"text":38522,"start":17576,"end":17626},"Da kommt ja kein VW Mechaniker, stöbst mir seinen Laptop an mein Auto an und und und update das dann.",64,{"sentences":38525,"speaker":754,"num_words":38536,"start":17628,"end":17889},[38526,38528,38530,38532,38534],{"text":38527,"start":17628,"end":17657},"Das ist auch so was, was sich über viele, viele Jahrzehnte jetzt entwickelt hat.",{"text":38529,"start":17659,"end":17708},"Ganz früher war das natürlich noch so, wenn wir eine Waschmaschine hatten, dann war in der Waschmaschine fest eingebrannt irgendwo einen.",{"text":38531,"start":17712,"end":17742},"Da wurde mein Code draufgebrannt und den musste ich auch nie wieder ändern.",{"text":38533,"start":17745,"end":17823},"Über die Jahre hat sich das dann aber son bisschen verändert, wenn man dann gemerkt hat, hey, es wär vielleicht gar nicht so schlecht in der Lage zu sein, Updates fahren zu können.",{"text":38535,"start":17825,"end":17889},"Teilweise auch wieder zu 'nem negativen Teil, wenn man sich überlegt, dass ich mir einen Auto kaufen kann heutzutage, was eigentlich schon alle Features verbaut hat, hardwareseitig.",108,{"sentences":38538,"speaker":754,"num_words":38549,"start":17893,"end":18103},[38539,38541,38543,38545,38547],{"text":38540,"start":17893,"end":17917},"Das heißt, meine Sitzheizung und was auch immer ist schon da.",{"text":38542,"start":17917,"end":17946},"Ist aber nicht freigeschaltet, weil die Software da quasi geblockt ist.",{"text":38544,"start":17949,"end":17970},"Und ich kann dann quasi über 'n Update nachfahren.",{"text":38546,"start":17974,"end":18006},"Das heißt, heute ist das auch wieder alles irgendwie, alles ist ans Internet angebunden.",{"text":38548,"start":18010,"end":18103},"Zwischenschritt war noch, ich musste früher zu 'nem Techniker fahren, ich musste dann in die VW Werkstatt fahren und musste mir dann da von 'nem Techniker am Ende 'n Update machen lassen, damit das Steuergerät auf dem neuesten Stand ist.",85,{"sentences":38551,"speaker":754,"num_words":38558,"start":18105,"end":18330},[38552,38554,38556],{"text":38553,"start":18105,"end":18176},"War das nicht sogar bei dieser ganzen Abgasskandalgeschichte so, da ist ja relativ blut publik gewesen, da mussten ja viele Leute mit den Autos dann auf einmal zum Hersteller.",{"text":38555,"start":18178,"end":18245},"Also da hat sich auch die Welt irgendwie son bisschen verändert und ich glaube, heute ist es diese Mikrocontroller Welt gar nicht mehr so weit weg von dieser Web Welt.",{"text":38557,"start":18245,"end":18330},"Und wir lernen, wir haben in den letzten 10 Jahren sehr, sehr viel gelernt von dem, was eben im im Web und überhaupt auf auf normalen Computern unterwegs ist und haben das versucht, irgendwie auf Mikrocontroller zu abstrahieren.",97,{"sentences":38560,"speaker":273,"num_words":37831,"start":18334,"end":18419},[38561],{"text":38562,"start":18334,"end":18419},"Ist das auch son Teil von dieser IoT Bubble, die dann da quasi einfach mitgekommen ist, dadurch, dass mehr von dieser Hardware einfach auch kontinuierlich Netzanschluss hat und sich selber updaten kann im Zweifelsfall?",{"sentences":38564,"speaker":754,"num_words":38027,"start":18422,"end":18575},[38565,38567,38569],{"text":38566,"start":18422,"end":18432},"Auf jeden Fall, ja.",{"text":38568,"start":18432,"end":18508},"Also diese ganze, dadurch, dass heute alles irgendwie 'n Netz hat, ob das jetzt 'n Internet ist, 'n Intranet oder wo auch immer es angebunden ist, hab ich natürlich viel mehr Möglichkeit.",{"text":38570,"start":18508,"end":18575},"Und das haben jetzt mittlerweile, glaub ich, auch viele Hersteller, viele Firmen eingesehen, dass das am Ende mehr Vorteile als Nachteile bringt, wenn ich vernetzt bin.",{"sentences":38572,"speaker":273,"num_words":38575,"start":18578,"end":18607},[38573],{"text":38574,"start":18578,"end":18607},"Mein Kühlschrank zu Hause hat übrigens 'n Mikrofon für seine Software Updates",12,{"sentences":38577,"speaker":754,"num_words":38580,"start":18607,"end":18630},[38578],{"text":38579,"start":18607,"end":18630},"und dann kriegst Du sone kleine App und die macht",10,{"sentences":38582,"speaker":273,"num_words":38272,"start":18630,"end":18692},[38583],{"text":38584,"start":18630,"end":18692},"dann son bisschen wie so Modemusik und Du musst das quasi an den Kühlschrank halten und dann spricht die mit dem Kühlschrank quasi so auf Probleme,",{"sentences":38586,"speaker":294,"num_words":1685,"start":18692,"end":18703},[38587,38588],{"text":2406,"start":18692,"end":18695},{"text":38589,"start":18699,"end":18703},"Pizza über,",{"sentences":38591,"speaker":273,"num_words":37719,"start":18707,"end":18751},[38592,38594,38596],{"text":38593,"start":18707,"end":18716},"nichts zu tun.",{"text":38595,"start":18716,"end":18729},"Das klingt richtig abgefahren.",{"text":38597,"start":18733,"end":18751},"Aber es hat schon hat schon funktioniert.",{"sentences":38599,"speaker":294,"num_words":37600,"start":18753,"end":18769},[38600],{"text":38601,"start":18753,"end":18769},"Ja, das kann der Kühlschrank jetzt mehr.",{"sentences":38603,"speaker":273,"num_words":37626,"start":18771,"end":18913},[38604],{"text":38605,"start":18771,"end":18913},"Das weiß ich nicht, aber er kann auf alle Fälle auch in die andere Richtung kommunizieren, wenn Du so, Du kannst son Diagnosedampf quasi von dem Kühlschrank ziehen und dann fängt der an so zu pfeifen wie 'n Modem und die hört das quasi mit und den Code, das dann wieder in der Nähe, keine Ahnung.",{"sentences":38607,"speaker":754,"num_words":38610,"start":18913,"end":18945},[38608],{"text":38609,"start":18913,"end":18945},"Das war die effizienteste Art vom Hersteller zu sagen, so implementieren wir Damenübertragungen.",13,{"sentences":38612,"speaker":273,"num_words":37704,"start":18949,"end":18998},[38613,38615,38616],{"text":38614,"start":18949,"end":18990},"Ich weiß nicht, was vor 10 Jahren Bluetooth Chips gekostet haben oder so was, ja, aber offensichtlich.",{"text":16580,"start":18993,"end":18994},{"text":38617,"start":18994,"end":18998},"Das ist",{"sentences":38619,"speaker":754,"num_words":754,"start":18998,"end":19004},[38620],{"text":38621,"start":18998,"end":19004},"ja so.",{"sentences":38623,"speaker":273,"num_words":38630,"start":19007,"end":19116},[38624,38626,38627,38628],{"text":38625,"start":19007,"end":19089},"Ist am Rand, ist son kleiner Spot, ist so markiert mit sonem kleinen Kreis, son kleiner Lautsprecher, 'n Mikrofon hinten dran, steht so, hier bitte dranhalten und los geht's.",{"text":16580,"start":19093,"end":19094},{"text":19099,"start":19097,"end":19098},{"text":38629,"start":19101,"end":19116},"Ja, geht auch ohne 5 g.",37,{"sentences":38632,"speaker":754,"num_words":38642,"start":19119,"end":19265},[38633,38635,38637,38638,38640],{"text":38634,"start":19119,"end":19144},"Okay, kennt ihr das noch vor den Telefonen von früher?",{"text":38636,"start":19147,"end":19181},"Wenn man quasi eine eine Taste drückt, dann kommt ja ein spezifischer Ton.",{"text":16580,"start":19181,"end":19184},{"text":38639,"start":19184,"end":19195},"Und das bei jeder Taste.",{"text":38641,"start":19195,"end":19265},"Das der Ton wiederum setzt sich aus bestimmten Frequenzen ja zusammen, die dann quasi wieder demoduliert werden und auf der anderen Seite sagen, hey, da will ich eigentlich hin.",58,{"sentences":38644,"speaker":754,"num_words":37790,"start":19265,"end":19291},[38645,38646],{"text":16580,"start":19265,"end":19267},{"text":38647,"start":19267,"end":19291},"Es ist schon cool, dass Sie das immer",{"sentences":38649,"speaker":273,"num_words":37714,"start":19291,"end":19319},[38650],{"text":38651,"start":19291,"end":19319},"noch festgestellt haben, sind wir halt genug, so was zu kennen.",{"sentences":38653,"speaker":294,"num_words":37670,"start":19321,"end":19392},[38654],{"text":38655,"start":19321,"end":19392},"Aber überhaupt cool, dass Du 'n Update für den Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui Shui",{"sentences":38657,"speaker":273,"num_words":38663,"start":19396,"end":19461},[38658,38659,38661],{"text":19400,"start":19396,"end":19397},{"text":38660,"start":19402,"end":19415},"Ich war das einfach mal ausprobiert.",{"text":38662,"start":19415,"end":19461},"Ich hab keine Ahnung, was da jetzt passiert, ob das Eiswürfelfach jetzt besser performt oder was Du weißt.",25,{"sentences":38665,"speaker":294,"num_words":38630,"start":19465,"end":19561},[38666,38668,38670],{"text":38667,"start":19465,"end":19469},"Ja, cool.",{"text":38669,"start":19469,"end":19483},"Ja, nee, es ist verrückt.",{"text":38671,"start":19483,"end":19561},"Also man macht sich ja tatsächlich im Alltag irgendwie wirklich Gedanken, aber wert wert zu sprechen und man irgendwie, also ich glaub, es gibt halt diese riesige Bandbreite, ne, aber",{"sentences":38673,"speaker":754,"num_words":37652,"start":19561,"end":19634},[38674],{"text":38675,"start":19561,"end":19634},"ich hab hinter mir gerade diese Lichtschalter zum Beispiel, wo ich auch denke, ja, okay, die sind ja auch irgendwo gesteuert, da ist eine kleine LED dran, die aufleuchtet und",{"sentences":38677,"speaker":294,"num_words":38682,"start":19634,"end":19709},[38678,38680],{"text":38679,"start":19634,"end":19659},"irgendwie Rückmeldungen gibt, ob das jetzt grade angeschaltet oder nicht.",{"text":38681,"start":19659,"end":19709},"Das heißt ja, da jedem Ding sitzt ja wahrscheinlich auch wie ein kleiner Mikrocontroller, der das irgendwie steuert.",28,{"sentences":38684,"speaker":754,"num_words":38693,"start":19712,"end":19918},[38685,38687,38689,38691],{"text":38686,"start":19712,"end":19766},"Und das geht sogar dann auch in eine richtig spannende Richtung, weil da kann man dann wieder über Energy Harvesting reden.",{"text":38688,"start":19766,"end":19806},"Es gibt diese Teile tatsächlich von Herstellern, ohne dass die irgendeine eigene Energiespeicherart haben.",{"text":38690,"start":19808,"end":19902},"Das heißt, Du drückst aufn Schalter und Du jagst durch das auf den Schalter drücken, 'n kleinen Metallkern, durch eine Spule und es wird genau so viel Energie induziert, eine Nachricht abzusenden.",{"text":38692,"start":19906,"end":19918},"Das ist schon irgendwie genial.",72,{"sentences":38695,"speaker":273,"num_words":38699,"start":19921,"end":19962},[38696,38697],{"text":16580,"start":19921,"end":19922},{"text":38698,"start":19925,"end":19962},"Und irgendwie auch 'n bisschen ineffizient, weil dann ja jeder Schalter sein eigenes Kraftwerk mitbringen muss.",17,{"sentences":38701,"speaker":754,"num_words":37610,"start":19964,"end":20033},[38702],{"text":38703,"start":19964,"end":20033},"Ja, aber gleichzeitig wiederum keinen Energiespeicher, was wieder heißt, wir haben nicht ständig irgendwo Lithium Ionen Akkus oder so, die überbleiben, wenn so was dann mal wegkommt.",{"sentences":38705,"speaker":273,"num_words":37642,"start":20037,"end":20058},[38706],{"text":38707,"start":20037,"end":20058},"Gut, die hängen ja, hängen am KNX, oder?",{"sentences":38709,"speaker":754,"num_words":754,"start":20060,"end":20064},[38710],{"text":38711,"start":20060,"end":20064},"Unsere Schalter.",{"sentences":38713,"speaker":294,"num_words":38723,"start":20064,"end":20224},[38714,38716,38718,38719,38721],{"text":38715,"start":20064,"end":20098},"Diese Schalter hängen jetzt an 'nem Kabel, ja, das ist richtig, ja.",{"text":38717,"start":20098,"end":20135},"Sind aber dadurch auch wieder angreifbar von außen, was wir ja auch schon hatten.",{"text":16580,"start":20137,"end":20138},{"text":38720,"start":20140,"end":20204},"Wo wir nicht mehr unser Licht, nee, war da ist das, ich weiß gar nicht, ob das komplette Licht ausgefallen, ob die alle Schalter ausgefallen sind.",{"text":38722,"start":20207,"end":20224},"Kannst Du dich da noch dran erinnern?",60,{"sentences":38725,"speaker":294,"num_words":37764,"start":20224,"end":20270},[38726,38728,38730,38732],{"text":38727,"start":20224,"end":20237},"Nee, die Heizung, ne.",{"text":38729,"start":20237,"end":20250},"Also ich glaub, ja, egal.",{"text":38731,"start":20254,"end":20260},"Sicherheit und so.",{"text":38733,"start":20262,"end":20270},"Da war noch ein",{"sentences":38735,"speaker":754,"num_words":754,"start":20270,"end":20279},[38736],{"text":38737,"start":20270,"end":20279},"Port offen.",{"sentences":38739,"speaker":273,"num_words":38747,"start":20282,"end":20342},[38740,38742,38743,38745],{"text":38741,"start":20282,"end":20305},"Ich hab hier noch auf meine Liste Dennis sein Lieblingsthema.",{"text":20311,"start":20309,"end":20310},{"text":38744,"start":20313,"end":20331},"Da müssen wir auch noch drüber reden, oder?",{"text":38746,"start":20333,"end":20342},"Was ist dein Lieblingsthema?",23,{"sentences":38749,"speaker":294,"num_words":1685,"start":20346,"end":20354},[38750],{"text":38751,"start":20346,"end":20354},"Ganz viele Lieblingsthemen.",{"sentences":38753,"speaker":273,"num_words":37615,"start":20359,"end":20373},[38754],{"text":38755,"start":20359,"end":20373},"Komm schon, enttäusch mich nicht.",{"sentences":38757,"speaker":294,"num_words":754,"start":20373,"end":20381},[38758],{"text":38759,"start":20373,"end":20381},"Ja, ei.",{"sentences":38761,"speaker":273,"num_words":37790,"start":20381,"end":20409},[38762,38764,38765,38767,38768],{"text":38763,"start":20381,"end":20389},"Sehr gut.",{"text":16580,"start":20391,"end":20392},{"text":38766,"start":20395,"end":20402},"AI ist ja überall.",{"text":3646,"start":20406,"end":20407},{"text":20411,"start":20407,"end":20409},{"sentences":38770,"speaker":273,"num_words":38777,"start":20413,"end":20594},[38771,38773,38775],{"text":38772,"start":20413,"end":20459},"Und ich würde mir vorstellen, dass das erst mal so auf embedded devices ziemlich schwierig ist, weil quasi keine Rechenpower.",{"text":38774,"start":20463,"end":20508},"Ist es dann son Feld, wo man versucht, mit dedizierter Hardware da irgendwas zu, möglichst zu machen?",{"text":38776,"start":20508,"end":20594},"Oder ist das eher, wo man sagt, so, nee, das das machen wir gar nicht hier so am richtigen Edge Edge, sondern verschieben das halt irgendwo anders hin und arbeiten dann nur mit den Ergebnissen davon weiter?",74,{"sentences":38779,"speaker":754,"num_words":38346,"start":20598,"end":20831},[38780,38782,38784,38786,38788],{"text":38781,"start":20598,"end":20626},"Das ist, würd ich sagen, nicht zu 100 Prozent alles in der Cloud.",{"text":38783,"start":20626,"end":20670},"Also wir haben durchaus einiges, was auch irgendwie auf auf dem Gerät selbst auf dem Edge Device läuft.",{"text":38785,"start":20672,"end":20689},"Das läuft normalerweise dann extra über irgendwelche TPUs.",{"text":38787,"start":20689,"end":20791},"Also ich hab da Tender Processing Units, das ist quasi wie eine GPU, wie man's von Grafikkarten vom Computer kennt, eben aber spezialisiert auf diese Tensoroperationen, die eigentlich eben für diese ganzen AI Modelle notwendig sind.",{"text":38789,"start":20793,"end":20831},"Und das größte Problem, was ich eine Restriktion eigentlich habe in dem System, ist der Speicher.",{"sentences":38791,"speaker":754,"num_words":38410,"start":20835,"end":21172},[38792,38794,38796,38798,38800],{"text":38793,"start":20835,"end":20869},"Weil ich einfach am Ende irgendwie mein Modell laden muss und das irgendwo auf meinem haben.",{"text":38795,"start":20871,"end":21006},"Wenn ich da als 8 Gigabyte hab und ich hab aber am Ende irgendwie son Netz, was ich da drauf packen will, was irgendwie aus 'n paar Millionen Parametern besteht, dann kann man sich hochrechnen, wenn ein Parameter 16 Bit oder 32 Bit Floads wahrscheinlich eher 32 Bit Floads sind, dann kostet mich da sehr, sehr viel Speicher.",{"text":38797,"start":21008,"end":21050},"Und dann läuft das meistens da dafür hin, dass sich so Netze dann einerseits beschneiden muss.",{"text":38799,"start":21052,"end":21089},"Das heißt, ich trenn die quasi an bestimmten Stellen einfach ab und ich mach die dümmer.",{"text":38801,"start":21093,"end":21172},"Das heißt, ich nutz eben am Ende irgendwie keine Floating Points, sondern ich nutz am Ende irgendwie Zahlen, bei denen ich nur noch 8 Bit oder so was fürn Speicher brauche, also Festpunktzahlen.",{"sentences":38803,"speaker":754,"num_words":38663,"start":21176,"end":21235},[38804],{"text":38805,"start":21176,"end":21235},"Und bei denen hab ich dann eben am Ende weniger Intelligenz in Anführungszeichen, aber eben trotzdem noch mein Modell irgendwie, was ich eigentlich haben wollte.",{"sentences":38807,"speaker":273,"num_words":38575,"start":21238,"end":21270},[38808],{"text":38809,"start":21238,"end":21270},"Und was sind das so für Use Cases, wo AI relevant ist?",{"sentences":38811,"speaker":754,"num_words":38822,"start":21273,"end":21481},[38812,38814,38816,38818,38820],{"text":38813,"start":21273,"end":21285},"Puh, das geht von bis.",{"text":38815,"start":21285,"end":21361},"Es gibt mittlerweile Chiphersteller, die ihre eigenen Tpus eben mit verbaut haben für bestimmte Use Cases, wie zum Beispiel Kameras, in denen schon direkt 'n AI Modul mit drinnen sitzt.",{"text":38817,"start":21364,"end":21396},"Und Du kannst mit diesem Kameradevice am Ende schon eine Objekterkennung machen.",{"text":38819,"start":21396,"end":21454},"Und dann hast Du eben eine sehr, sehr viel schnellere Datenverarbeitung, als ständig irgendwie den Stream irgendwohin jagen zu müssen, den noch verarbeiten.",{"text":38821,"start":21457,"end":21481},"Das kostet dich alles am Ende irgendwie Traffic Zeit und so weiter.",82,{"sentences":38824,"speaker":754,"num_words":37709,"start":21484,"end":21495},[38825],{"text":38826,"start":21484,"end":21495},"Also das gibt's auf jeden Fall.",{"sentences":38828,"speaker":1685,"num_words":754,"start":21495,"end":21501},[38829],{"text":38830,"start":21495,"end":21501},"Hab ich",{"sentences":38832,"speaker":294,"num_words":37615,"start":21501,"end":21519},[38833,38835,38836],{"text":38834,"start":21501,"end":21509},"in meinem Keller.",{"text":21516,"start":21514,"end":21515},{"text":3646,"start":21518,"end":21519},{"sentences":38838,"speaker":273,"num_words":37600,"start":21519,"end":21539},[38839],{"text":38840,"start":21519,"end":21539},"Was erkennst Du so in deinem Keller?",{"sentences":38842,"speaker":294,"num_words":37799,"start":21539,"end":21656},[38843,38845],{"text":38844,"start":21539,"end":21568},"Nicht l l ms, aber AI, also den Wasserzähler.",{"text":38846,"start":21571,"end":21656},"Also da ist 'n kleiner ESP mit 'ner Kamera drauf und der macht aber die Texterkennung von dem von dem Kamerabild on device und schickt dann nur den Wert per was auch immer.",{"sentences":38848,"speaker":754,"num_words":37726,"start":21656,"end":21665},[38849],{"text":38850,"start":21656,"end":21665},"Das klingt ähnlich effizient",{"sentences":38852,"speaker":273,"num_words":1685,"start":21665,"end":21672},[38853],{"text":38854,"start":21665,"end":21672},"wie mein Kühlschrank.",{"sentences":38856,"speaker":294,"num_words":37642,"start":21675,"end":21695},[38857],{"text":38858,"start":21675,"end":21695},"Wie wie will ich das denn sonst machen?",{"sentences":38860,"speaker":754,"num_words":37642,"start":21695,"end":21716},[38861],{"text":38862,"start":21695,"end":21716},"Ja, Du kommst ja nicht an die Stärke,",{"sentences":38864,"speaker":294,"num_words":37704,"start":21716,"end":21766},[38865],{"text":38866,"start":21716,"end":21766},"sonst kommst Du kommst nicht an die Wasserzähler und Du kommst nicht, also sonst muss Du halt das Kamerabild übertragen.",{"sentences":38868,"speaker":273,"num_words":37652,"start":21766,"end":21845},[38869,38871,38873,38875],{"text":38870,"start":21766,"end":21782},"Gibt gibt's heutzutage keine smarten Wasserzähler?",{"text":38872,"start":21786,"end":21793},"Ich hab keine Ahnung.",{"text":38874,"start":21795,"end":21836},"Ja, aber Also es gibt ja schon smarte Stromzähler, also gibt's bestimmt auch smarte Wasserzähler oder?",{"text":38876,"start":21836,"end":21845},"Ist nur noch einfacher.",{"sentences":38878,"speaker":294,"num_words":38888,"start":21845,"end":21973},[38879,38881,38883,38885,38886],{"text":38880,"start":21845,"end":21860},"Aber da kommst Du nicht dran.",{"text":38882,"start":21864,"end":21902},"Interessanterweise, wo Du das grade so sagst mit den Piepen, ist ja ähnlich ähnlich spannend.",{"text":38884,"start":21902,"end":21925},"Also die smarten Stromzähler, die übertragen das per Infrarot.",{"text":16580,"start":21928,"end":21929},{"text":38887,"start":21929,"end":21973},"Also was ja auch eine interessante Schnittstelle irgendwie ist, die zu nutzen, da nicht 'n Kabel reinzustecken.",48,{"sentences":38890,"speaker":754,"num_words":38699,"start":21977,"end":22023},[38891],{"text":38892,"start":21977,"end":22023},"Da muss ich immer an den ehemaligen Gameboy denken, der oben diese Infrarot Schnittstelle hat und dann",{"sentences":38894,"speaker":1685,"num_words":754,"start":22023,"end":22028},[38895],{"text":38896,"start":22023,"end":22028},"muss man",{"sentences":38898,"speaker":754,"num_words":37714,"start":22030,"end":22058},[38899,38901],{"text":38900,"start":22030,"end":22043},"Das hat bei mir nie funktioniert.",{"text":38902,"start":22046,"end":22058},"Weil niemandem hat das funktioniert.",{"sentences":38904,"speaker":294,"num_words":37709,"start":22060,"end":22074},[38905],{"text":38906,"start":22060,"end":22074},"Vielleicht war da nie 1 drin.",{"sentences":38908,"speaker":273,"num_words":38575,"start":22077,"end":22109},[38909,38911],{"text":38910,"start":22077,"end":22098},"Okay, okay, Dennis guckt seinen Wasserzähler mit E-SPären.",{"text":38912,"start":22102,"end":22109},"Was was gibt's noch?",{"sentences":38914,"speaker":754,"num_words":37759,"start":22109,"end":22454},[38915,38917,38919,38921,38923],{"text":38916,"start":22109,"end":22177},"Also auf jeden Fall, da wo wir's ganz viel eingesetzt haben in den letzten Jahren, ist, es gibt eine eigene Plattform von Nvidia, die nennt sich Chadson.",{"text":38918,"start":22181,"end":22220},"Und das sind quasi, kann man sich 'n bisschen vorstellen, wie Raspberry Pis auf Steroiden.",{"text":38920,"start":22224,"end":22304},"Da hab ich quasi dann am Ende schon meinen meinen ganz normalen Mikroprozessor und alles drauf, quasi 'n Einplatinencomputer, aber eben zusätzlich halt einen Prozessor noch eben für diese für diese AI Berechnung.",{"text":38922,"start":22308,"end":22334},"Und die sind wahnsinnig potent geworden, da gibt's quasi vorn bis.",{"text":38924,"start":22336,"end":22454},"Und wir haben das Teil bei uns zum Beispiel auf 'ner autonomen vorhandenen Auto im Maßstab 1 zu 10 benutzt und wir konnten damit komplett unsere Schilderkennung, unsere Straßenlinienerkennung, unsere Verhaltenslogik in 'nem AI Modell abbilden, also wirklich auch mehrere Modelle, die wir parallel laufen lassen konnten.",{"sentences":38926,"speaker":754,"num_words":38937,"start":22457,"end":22840},[38927,38929,38931,38933,38935],{"text":38928,"start":22457,"end":22499},"Es gibt tatsächlich mehr als nur LLMs, auch wenn viele Menschen mittlerweile bei AI nur noch an LLMs denken.",{"text":38930,"start":22502,"end":22563},"Aber grade so was wie eine Bilderkennung oder so ist ja eigentlich, das gibt's schon seit seit vielen, vielen 10 10, 20, 30 Jahren oder so.",{"text":38932,"start":22565,"end":22615},"Die Hardware musste nur erst mal potent genug werden und dann kamen auf einmal LLMs und alle haben vergessen, was eigentlich drunter steckt.",{"text":38934,"start":22618,"end":22757},"Aber genau, im autonomen Fahren also dementsprechend und auch wenn ich in son echtes autonomes Fahrzeug oder so hab, autonom in Anführungszeichen, wir sind da ja nur auf 'nem bestimmten Grad, aber da stecken auch wieder keine richtigen Computer drinne, sondern das sind eigentlich ja eher wieder solche Devices, die darauf ausgelegt sind, diese Jobs da dann sinnvoll zu machen.",{"text":38936,"start":22759,"end":22840},"Das heißt, eigentlich hab ich eher wieder 'n Mikrocomputersystem, was in 'ner bestimmten Art und Weise gepimpt wurde und dann eben zum Beispiel für meine Schilderkennung in meinem Tesla oder so zuständig ist.",161,{"sentences":38939,"speaker":294,"num_words":38950,"start":22842,"end":23142},[38940,38942,38944,38946,38948],{"text":38941,"start":22842,"end":22937},"Wenn Du jetzt son Beispiel nimmst, wie das das autonome Fahrzeugarm, was dort ist, ist das dann komplett alles in dem Bereich von euch und von, weil das weil das dann dort auf den Mikrocontrollern läuft.",{"text":38943,"start":22940,"end":22987},"Also gerade so einfach nur die Vorstellung, okay, die normale Informatik in Anführungsstrichen oder ne, wo ist da der Zugang?",{"text":38945,"start":22987,"end":23021},"Also braucht man da, Algorithmen zu entwickeln, beispielsweise was zu erkennen oder so?",{"text":38947,"start":23021,"end":23089},"Ist das dann eher was aus der Informatik kommt oder ohne eine Logik zu machen, eine Entscheidung zu treffen, fahr jetzt nach links und nicht nach rechts?",{"text":38949,"start":23089,"end":23142},"Ist das dann im Bereich, der außerhalb sozusagen von den liegt oder also ist auch in der in der in der Wirtschaft sozusagen",119,{"sentences":38952,"speaker":754,"num_words":37790,"start":23144,"end":23162},[38953],{"text":38954,"start":23144,"end":23162},"das in diesem Bereich drin oder ist das jetzt",{"sentences":38956,"speaker":294,"num_words":38575,"start":23162,"end":23196},[38957],{"text":38958,"start":23162,"end":23196},"bei euch, weil es gut passt, das in dem Umfeld zu implementieren?",{"sentences":38960,"speaker":754,"num_words":37759,"start":23199,"end":23531},[38961,38963,38965,38967,38969],{"text":38962,"start":23199,"end":23229},"Es kommt 'n bisschen drauf an, in welchem Anwendungsbereich man irgendwann landet.",{"text":38964,"start":23229,"end":23299},"Wenn ich jetzt bei 'nem Staubsaugerroboterhersteller zum Beispiel lande, dann wird vermutlich alles, was ich in sonem Staubsaugerroboter habe, ja irgendwie als abgebildet, programmiert werden müssen.",{"text":38966,"start":23299,"end":23363},"Das heißt, ich hab da eben bestimmte Sensorik, ich hab da eine bestimmte Verhaltenslogik drinnen und das muss ich ja irgendwie alles auf dieses Device bekommen.",{"text":38968,"start":23363,"end":23451},"Also ich zumindest will nicht, dass mein Roborock, so wie er bei uns zu Hause heißt, irgendwie nach Hause telefoniert und ständig irgendwie meine Daten irgendwo hinschickt, sondern das soll im besten Fall alles auf dem Gerät passieren.",{"text":38970,"start":23454,"end":23531},"Ich glaube, das, was wir in machen, hat 'n sehr großen Schnitt mit dem auch von der normalen Kerninformatik, wie man's kennt, also auch von der Implementierung auf auf herkömmlichen Computern.",{"sentences":38972,"speaker":754,"num_words":38377,"start":23534,"end":23665},[38973,38975,38977,38979],{"text":38974,"start":23534,"end":23588},"Man hat eben nur diese Besonderheiten, die vielleicht wie wenig Speicher oder teilweise weniger Rechenkapazität, die eben bei sonem dazu kommen.",{"text":38976,"start":23588,"end":23629},"Aber an sich, Algorithmik, na ja, muss ich genauso machen wie wie auf 'nem normalen Computer auch.",{"text":38978,"start":23632,"end":23663},"Meinen Speicher Sachen ablegen, Sachen wieder rausladen, muss ich auf jedem Device ähnlich machen.",{"text":3646,"start":23663,"end":23665},{"sentences":38981,"speaker":273,"num_words":38049,"start":23667,"end":24016},[38982,38984,38986,38988,38990],{"text":38983,"start":23667,"end":23706},"Wir haben son bisschen schon über diesen Update oder mangelnden Updateprozess gesprochen, wie das funktionieren kann.",{"text":38985,"start":23709,"end":23727},"Aber wie funktioniert denn son Deployment überhaupt?",{"text":38987,"start":23727,"end":23831},"Also wenn ich hier mal unsere Webanwendung wieder als Vergleich nehm, dann weiß nicht, wenn ich super Hipster unterwegs bin, dann pack ich meinen Code irgendwie in 'n Docker Container, schieb den irgendwohin und dann dann läuft der so.",{"text":38989,"start":23833,"end":23876},"Aber wenn ihr jetzt oder oder keine Ahnung, absetzt von von dem Uni, wir bleiben bei deinem Staubsauger.",{"text":38991,"start":23879,"end":24016},"Jetzt hat da irgendjemand den den Quertext für diesen Staubsauger gesprochen geschrieben und da gehört ja auch wahrscheinlich son sehr custom Hardware Stack mit dazu, weil die nehmen ja wahrscheinlich nicht irgendwie hier den Arduino von der Stange und löten den dann in den Roboter rein, sondern die haben ja wahrscheinlich 'n sehr angepasstes Setup.",{"sentences":38993,"speaker":273,"num_words":37742,"start":24019,"end":24175},[38994,38996,38998],{"text":38995,"start":24019,"end":24036},"Und wo kommt das denn eigentlich am Ende her?",{"text":38997,"start":24039,"end":24091},"Also muss ich mir dann, weiß nicht, meine 500 besten Mitarbeiter nehmen und alle löten in Kleinarbeit das so betschweise zusammen?",{"text":38999,"start":24094,"end":24175},"Oder wo geh ich hin und sag, hier, hier ist mein Plan, bitte bau mir das mal so in in Kleinserien, in Großserien oder wie wie funktioniert da die Fertigung dazu?",{"sentences":39001,"speaker":754,"num_words":39012,"start":24178,"end":24505},[39002,39004,39006,39008,39010],{"text":39003,"start":24178,"end":24235},"Na ja, am Ende ist es leider nicht, sobald Du anfängst, Hardware als als Ebene mit dazu zu bauen, hast Du auf einmal sehr viel weniger Flexibilität.",{"text":39005,"start":24239,"end":24299},"Weil bei Software haben wir mit CICD normalerweise die Möglichkeit, relativ easy irgendwie mal schnell Hotfix auszuspielen oder eine Version von Software zu verändern.",{"text":39007,"start":24301,"end":24349},"Das geht leider nicht so ganz, wenn Du auf einmal sagst, ups, sie, ich hab vergessen, eine Leiterbahn ziehen.",{"text":39009,"start":24349,"end":24392},"Da kann ich jetzt gar kein Signal drauflegen, dann muss ich eben einen neuen Prototypen erstellen.",{"text":39011,"start":24395,"end":24505},"Ich hab in der Vergangenheit auch mal 'n paar Jahre in dem in 'nem Ingenieurbüro gearbeitet und da hatten wir eben genau die Situation, dass wir vom Kunden ungefähr jede Woche, maximal alle 2 Wochen, einen neuen Prototypen zugeschickt bekommen haben.",127,{"sentences":39014,"speaker":754,"num_words":38536,"start":24507,"end":24771},[39015,39017,39019,39021,39023],{"text":39016,"start":24507,"end":24634},"Das heißt, wir mussten immer wieder für die Software, die wir für das Ding entwickelt haben, diesen Prototypen dann auspacken, mussten uns das irgendwie mit 'nem 3D Drucker, mit 'nem Modell und so irgendwie zusammenkleben, dass wir quasi unsere Platine da hatten und alle Punkte, auf denen wir irgendwie Zugang brauchten, konnten dafür entwickeln.",{"text":39018,"start":24637,"end":24670},"Und nach ein oder 2 Wochen durften wir uns das dann wieder neu zusammenbauen.",{"text":39020,"start":24673,"end":24716},"Und so hat das quasi immer und immer wieder mit 'ner neuen Revision den denselben Prozess irgendwie gehabt.",{"text":39022,"start":24719,"end":24748},"Das ist supersuperanstrengend, wenn Du noch nicht weit im Entwicklungsprozess bist.",{"text":39024,"start":24748,"end":24771},"Das heißt, wenn sich noch viel an der Hardware ändern kann.",{"sentences":39026,"speaker":754,"num_words":37799,"start":24771,"end":24867},[39027,39029],{"text":39028,"start":24771,"end":24833},"Und dann musst Du ständig irgendwie deine Architektur umwerfen, weil Du merkst, ups, jetzt hat sich hier wieder das geändert, das hat wieder Einfluss auf das.",{"text":39030,"start":24833,"end":24867},"Das heißt, Du hast einfach eine Ebene mehr mit drinnen, die halt irgendwie Probleme machen kann.",{"sentences":39032,"speaker":273,"num_words":38610,"start":24869,"end":24899},[39033],{"text":39034,"start":24869,"end":24899},"Aber okay, das das ist ja aber noch in soner sehr frühen Phase.",{"sentences":39036,"speaker":1685,"num_words":273,"start":24899,"end":24902},[39037],{"text":3646,"start":24899,"end":24902},{"sentences":39039,"speaker":273,"num_words":38549,"start":24902,"end":25112},[39040,39042,39044,39046],{"text":39041,"start":24902,"end":24954},"Aber wenn ich jetzt wirklich glaube, fertig zu sein damit irgendwann mal, wer also wer wer baut mir das denn dann?",{"text":39043,"start":24957,"end":25030},"Gibt's da so Standardauftragsfertigiger, wo ich so hingehen kann und sagen kann, okay, guck mal, hier ist hier ist meine Software, hier ist mein mein Zeitplan und mein Set-up so.",{"text":39045,"start":25030,"end":25097},"Könnt ihr mir 1000 Stück davon machen oder muss ich all diese Komponenten irgendwie einzeln kaufen und das dann selber als Teil von meiner eigenen Fertigung herstellen?",{"text":39047,"start":25097,"end":25112},"Wie wie läuft das im großen Maßstab?",{"sentences":39049,"speaker":754,"num_words":1115,"start":25115,"end":25336},[39050,39052,39053,39055,39057],{"text":39051,"start":25115,"end":25172},"Es kommt 'n bisschen darauf an, ob Du jetzt als Jan fragst oder als Hersteller 1 Produktes, der das Ganze als Serie verkaufen möchte.",{"text":3646,"start":25172,"end":25175},{"text":39054,"start":25175,"end":25186},"Wahrscheinlich eher als Hersteller.",{"text":39056,"start":25189,"end":25229},"Und da würdest Du dementsprechend wahrscheinlich Dienstleister mit einbinden, die eben für dich das Produkt am Ende herstellen.",{"text":39058,"start":25229,"end":25336},"Das heißt, wenn Du dein PCB, deine Platine soweit geplant hast, dass da alles irgendwie drauf passt, dann wirst Du das wahrscheinlich nicht bei uns in Deutschland herstellen, weil das relativ unlukrativ ist, sondern wirst das vermutlich irgendwo in Asien herstellen lassen.",{"sentences":39060,"speaker":754,"num_words":38027,"start":25339,"end":25494},[39061,39063,39065,39067,39069],{"text":39062,"start":25339,"end":25365},"Ich persönlich lasse normalerweise mein Zeug immer bei JLC PCB herstellen.",{"text":39064,"start":25365,"end":25374},"Das geht relativ schnell.",{"text":39066,"start":25374,"end":25417},"Da hab ich innerhalb von 1 Woche wird das in China gefertigt, dauert ein bis 2 Tage.",{"text":39068,"start":25421,"end":25467},"Dann wird das mit DHL Express hier rübergeschifft und dann hab ich nach 1 Woche meine 5 Platinen hier.",{"text":39070,"start":25470,"end":25494},"Dann kann ich mit diesen 5 Platinen testen, dann kann ich",{"sentences":39072,"speaker":273,"num_words":37600,"start":25496,"end":25514},[39073],{"text":39074,"start":25496,"end":25514},"Für so Mengen lohnt sich das schon?",{"sentences":39076,"speaker":754,"num_words":38471,"start":25517,"end":25632},[39077,39079,39081,39082,39084],{"text":39078,"start":25517,"end":25530},"Tatsächlich ist das wahnsinnig günstig.",{"text":39080,"start":25530,"end":25608},"Man denkt es nicht, aber Du kannst dir 5 Platinen für 2 Dollar herstellen lassen, wenn die im Bereich von 100 mal 100 Millimeter sind, also 10 mal 10 Zentimeter, was ist.",{"text":25615,"start":25611,"end":25612},{"text":39083,"start":25612,"end":25628},"Und das Ist technisch höher.",{"text":16580,"start":25628,"end":25632},{"sentences":39086,"speaker":754,"num_words":37704,"start":25635,"end":25683},[39087],{"text":39088,"start":25635,"end":25683},"Aber dementsprechend musst Du trotzdem eine Woche Minimum drauf warten, bis das Ding später bei dir liegt, teilweise pick of",{"sentences":39090,"speaker":1685,"num_words":37642,"start":25683,"end":25705},[39091,39093],{"text":39092,"start":25683,"end":25690},"the day.",{"text":39094,"start":25690,"end":25705},"Ich hab tatsächlich jetzt Na ja,",{"sentences":39096,"speaker":754,"num_words":37615,"start":25705,"end":25717},[39097],{"text":39098,"start":25705,"end":25717},"aber ich mein, wenn Dennis",{"sentences":39100,"speaker":273,"num_words":37799,"start":25717,"end":25811},[39101,39103],{"text":39102,"start":25717,"end":25794},"jetzt einen Schalter selber machen will oder so was, weißt Du, und Du baust dir das zusammen und Du willst jetzt für dein Haus, weißte nicht, 100 Stück oder so was davon davon haben?",{"text":39104,"start":25794,"end":25811},"Das kriegst Du ja dann easy damit hin.",{"sentences":39106,"speaker":754,"num_words":38377,"start":25811,"end":25933},[39107,39109,39111],{"text":39108,"start":25811,"end":25863},"Ja, wird sogar je mehr Du machst, desto günstiger wird das, weil die haben natürlich riesige Maschinen, in denen die das herstellen.",{"text":39110,"start":25865,"end":25905},"Und je mehr die da auf einmal irgendwie auf eine Platte packen können, desto günstiger wird das für alle.",{"text":39112,"start":25908,"end":25933},"Bei uns ist das jetzt momentan leider aber mal wieder der Punkt,",{"sentences":39114,"speaker":1685,"num_words":37615,"start":25935,"end":25947},[39115],{"text":39116,"start":25935,"end":25947},"ich hab grade erst bestellt",{"sentences":39118,"speaker":754,"num_words":37831,"start":25947,"end":26030},[39119,39121],{"text":39120,"start":25947,"end":25983},"letzte Woche und meine Bestellung ist jetzt grade in Leipzig beim Zoll hängen geblieben.",{"text":39122,"start":25983,"end":26030},"Jetzt muss ich denen wieder erklären, was ich denn da eigentlich Kryptisches bestellt habe, weil die sich wundern, was sind",{"sentences":39124,"speaker":273,"num_words":1685,"start":26034,"end":26044},[39125],{"text":39126,"start":26034,"end":26044},"Warum sind Bauteile?",{"sentences":39128,"speaker":754,"num_words":38642,"start":26047,"end":26188},[39129,39131,39133,39135],{"text":39130,"start":26047,"end":26102},"Tatsächlich ist das 1 der Punkte, weshalb das immer wieder aufgehalten wird, weil Angst besteht, was könnte da grade irgendwo ins Land kommen?",{"text":39132,"start":26106,"end":26141},"Aber Du würdest normalerweise dir also 'n Dienstleister suchen, der dir irgendwie das PCB herstellt.",{"text":39134,"start":26144,"end":26176},"Du würdest dir im besten Fall 'n Dienstleister suchen, der eine Bestückung für dich herstellt.",{"text":39136,"start":26178,"end":26188},"Ich hab jetzt grade erst",{"sentences":39138,"speaker":273,"num_words":37726,"start":26190,"end":26199},[39139],{"text":39140,"start":26190,"end":26199},"Was ist die Bestückung?",{"sentences":39142,"speaker":754,"num_words":38027,"start":26203,"end":26378},[39143,39145,39147,39149],{"text":39144,"start":26203,"end":26253},"Die Teile müssen ja irgendwie, also Mikrocontroller, Kondensatoren, alles Mögliche an Teilen muss ja irgendwie dadrauf gelötet werden.",{"text":39146,"start":26253,"end":26278},"Das willst Du nicht per Hand machen, auf gar keinen Fall.",{"text":39148,"start":26280,"end":26342},"Ich hab jetzt grade gelernt in Grünberg hier bei uns in der Nähe Bänder hat anscheinend die neueste, modernste Bestückungsanlage Europas.",{"text":39150,"start":26345,"end":26378},"Da hatt ich grade eine Werksführung und das ist schon beeindruckt, diese",{"sentences":39152,"speaker":273,"num_words":38699,"start":26378,"end":26420},[39153],{"text":39154,"start":26378,"end":26420},"Maschinen, die von oben aus sind wie so Riesentacker und dann so, das einfach auf deinem Board.",{"sentences":39156,"speaker":754,"num_words":39163,"start":26420,"end":26558},[39157,39159,39161],{"text":39158,"start":26420,"end":26427},"Ja, genau.",{"text":39160,"start":26427,"end":26535},"Das, wobei es sieht sogar aus, als hättest Du 'n riesiges Schlauchsystem, wo einfach quasi von vorne das die Platinen durchgehen und Du hast 'n Robotersystem an der Seite, was in großen Rollen die Teile reinsteckt und austauschen kann, Magazine.",{"text":39162,"start":26538,"end":26558},"Und da gehen wirklich riesige Magazinrollen rein und",50,{"sentences":39165,"speaker":273,"num_words":37642,"start":26560,"end":26579},[39166],{"text":39167,"start":26560,"end":26579},"Du hast sonst nicht mitgenommen zu soner Führung.",{"sentences":39169,"speaker":754,"num_words":37593,"start":26582,"end":26640},[39170,39172],{"text":39171,"start":26582,"end":26608},"Ich war selber froh, ich dass dass ich da sein durfte.",{"text":39173,"start":26611,"end":26640},"Aber ich war fasziniert, dass das bei uns hier in der Nähe Wie",{"sentences":39175,"speaker":294,"num_words":37615,"start":26640,"end":26661},[39176,39178],{"text":39177,"start":26640,"end":26657},"viele Videopodcast machen, demnächst.",{"text":16580,"start":26657,"end":26661},{"sentences":39180,"speaker":754,"num_words":38630,"start":26661,"end":26750},[39181,39183],{"text":39182,"start":26661,"end":26669},"Neues Format.",{"text":39184,"start":26672,"end":26750},"Ja, ich war wirklich fasziniert, dass das bei uns hier in der Nähe in sonem großen Maßstab gemacht wird, weil das eben sonst eigentlich sich nicht lohnt, in Deutschland großartig sone sone Herstellung zu machen.",{"sentences":39186,"speaker":273,"num_words":37790,"start":26750,"end":26772},[39187],{"text":39188,"start":26750,"end":26772},"Aber wahrscheinlich für Kleinserien dann trotzdem nicht relevant wäre.",{"sentences":39190,"speaker":754,"num_words":38460,"start":26772,"end":26965},[39191,39193,39195,39197,39199],{"text":39192,"start":26772,"end":26837},"Für Kleinserien ist Also wir haben jetzt netterweise den Kontakt mit denen und die haben uns dann angeboten als Hochschule dürfen wir da durchaus auch immer vorbeikommen.",{"text":39194,"start":26840,"end":26870},"Ansonsten würde aber auch das wahrscheinlich irgendwo in in in Asien oder so passieren.",{"text":39196,"start":26872,"end":26903},"Alles meiste ist natürlich automatisiert, das heißt, dafür gibt's wieder extra Anlagen.",{"text":39198,"start":26906,"end":26945},"Du kannst sogar auch bei JLC, wenn Du deine Platine herstellst, die sogar einseitig schon bestücken lassen.",{"text":39200,"start":26947,"end":26965},"Also selbst das geht bei denen mittlerweile ziemlich automatisiert.",{"sentences":39202,"speaker":754,"num_words":39213,"start":26968,"end":27225},[39203,39205,39207,39209,39211],{"text":39204,"start":26968,"end":27030},"Da musst Du halt noch 'n bisschen sagen, welche Teile Du haben willst, dann gucken die, welche da halt vorrätig sind und dann dann hast Du deinen ersten Prototypen.",{"text":39206,"start":27033,"end":27116},"Und dann kannst Du da quasi deine eigene deine eigene Heizungssteuerung bauen, deine eigene Thermostat, dein eigenes, was auch immer Du dir vorstellst, das ist ja das Coole, deshalb liebe ich das, was wir machen.",{"text":39208,"start":27116,"end":27136},"Das ist 'n bisschen wie Lego für Erwachsene.",{"text":39210,"start":27139,"end":27214},"Also Lego ist auch für Erwachsene, aber es ist quasi dieses Erschaffende, was ja auch bei Lego der Fall ist, dass Du quasi was kreieren kannst, was eigentlich gar nicht da war.",{"text":39212,"start":27214,"end":27225},"Und Du hast eine Idee?",109,{"sentences":39215,"speaker":754,"num_words":37615,"start":27225,"end":27238},[39216],{"text":39217,"start":27225,"end":27238},"Ja, dann bau's dir halt.",{"sentences":39219,"speaker":273,"num_words":37714,"start":27238,"end":27263},[39220],{"text":39221,"start":27238,"end":27263},"Ja, also so so bin ich da auch tatsächlich mal zugekommen,",{"sentences":39223,"speaker":754,"num_words":37709,"start":27263,"end":27279},[39224],{"text":39225,"start":27263,"end":27279},"weil ich vor, oh Gott, wann",{"sentences":39227,"speaker":273,"num_words":37719,"start":27279,"end":27315},[39228,39230],{"text":39229,"start":27279,"end":27310},"haben wir angefangen, das Haus zu planen, so vor 15 Jahren oder so?",{"text":27317,"start":27314,"end":27315},{"sentences":39232,"speaker":754,"num_words":754,"start":27315,"end":27325},[39233],{"text":39234,"start":27315,"end":27325},"15, 12.",{"sentences":39236,"speaker":273,"num_words":38536,"start":27329,"end":27603},[39237,39239,39241,39243,39244],{"text":39238,"start":27329,"end":27419},"Wollte ich meine Heizdrucksteuerung selber bauen, weil ich dachte so, okay, da da das son relativ überschaubares Problem, son Drehregler irgendwie ansteuern und 'n Thermostat dazu und dann schauen, dass das irgendwie alles funktioniert.",{"text":39240,"start":27419,"end":27475},"Dann hab ich das auch so zusammen bekommen mit sonem Arduino und sonem Brettboard und so, wie das dann halt irgendwie alles mal läuft.",{"text":39242,"start":27477,"end":27564},"Und dann war aber so dieses, ja, wie kriege ich jetzt aber, weiß nicht, 20 Stück von diesen Dingern halt irgendwie hergestellt und dachte, okay, niemals macht mir das ja irgendeiner in der Menge, ja.",{"text":16580,"start":27567,"end":27568},{"text":39245,"start":27568,"end":27603},"Und ich kann nicht den Arduino in die Wand verputzen bei mir so, ja.",{"sentences":39247,"speaker":273,"num_words":37806,"start":27603,"end":27646},[39248],{"text":39249,"start":27603,"end":27646},"Das ist jetzt irgendwie auch nicht pragmatisch, aber wenn das heutzutage so geht in kleinserien, ist echt abgefahren.",{"sentences":39251,"speaker":754,"num_words":39260,"start":27649,"end":27888},[39252,39254,39256,39258],{"text":39253,"start":27649,"end":27654},"Ja, total.",{"text":39255,"start":27654,"end":27744},"Also das wär dann genau für dich die Lösung gewesen, weder teuer noch groß aufwendig Und macht wahnsinnig viel Spaß, das zu bauen, weil Du eben auch dann am Computer wieder in in CAD das Ganze zeichnen kannst.",{"text":39257,"start":27744,"end":27859},"Und dann ist das eben auch wieder son son schaffender Prozess, dass Du das alles so kreierst, deine kleine Stadt aufbaust, die Teile jeweils positionierst und gucken musst, die müssen natürlich dann an bestimmten Positionen sein, damit bestimmte Effekte irgendwie vermieden werden und, und, und.",{"text":39259,"start":27859,"end":27888},"Also das ist 'n superspannendes Thema, alleine da wieder irgendwie reinzutauchen.",96,{"sentences":39262,"speaker":273,"num_words":37642,"start":27891,"end":27910},[39263],{"text":39264,"start":27891,"end":27910},"Gibt es da Software, die mir helfen kann?",{"sentences":39266,"speaker":754,"num_words":754,"start":27913,"end":27918},[39267],{"text":39268,"start":27913,"end":27918},"Also Ja.",{"sentences":39270,"speaker":273,"num_words":37652,"start":27920,"end":28000},[39271],{"text":39272,"start":27920,"end":28000},"Gibt es taugliche, weiß ich nicht, Simulatoren oder Validatoren oder so was, wo ich mein Layout hingeben kann, sagen kann, okay, funktioniert das überhaupt so, wie ich das haben will?",{"sentences":39274,"speaker":754,"num_words":37981,"start":28003,"end":28258},[39275,39277,39279,39281,39283],{"text":39276,"start":28003,"end":28068},"Du hast im Normalfall in soner Software auch immer schon 'n Checker mit drin, 'n Error Checker, der überprüft, ob Du irgendwelche groben Fehler gemacht hast.",{"text":39278,"start":28068,"end":28108},"Das heißt, ob bestimmte Leiterbahnen an bestimmten anderen Leiterbahnen liegen und da nicht liegen dürften oder, oder, oder.",{"text":39280,"start":28108,"end":28181},"Das heißt, im Normalfall, wenn, ich persönlich benutz jetzt gerne Keycard, aber es gibt dafür auch dann Eagle oder irgendwelche andere professionelle Software eben zum zum Zeichnen von Platinen.",{"text":39282,"start":28184,"end":28237},"Und da hast Du auch immer bestimmte Validierungssoftware schon mit drinnen verbaut, die drauf achtet, dass Du keine groben Schnitzer machst.",{"text":39284,"start":28240,"end":28258},"Nichtsdestotrotz läuft's meistens auf mehrere Revisionen hinaus.",{"sentences":39286,"speaker":754,"num_words":38267,"start":28261,"end":28437},[39287,39289],{"text":39288,"start":28261,"end":28433},"Also man macht Fehler, was leider auch bei uns im Forschungsprojekt ständig passiert, dass grade wenn Studierende einfach so was eben planen und haben, die haben noch nicht die Erfahrung, müssen sie ja auch nicht haben, aber dann kommen halt mehr Iterationsprozesse rein, weil Du halt doch auf einmal merkst, der Pin ist falsch angesteuert worden und jetzt ist die komplette Platine hin, weil da hätte gar keinen Strom liegen dürfen oder keine Spannung anliegen dürfen.",{"text":28438,"start":28436,"end":28437},{"sentences":39291,"speaker":294,"num_words":39163,"start":28440,"end":28563},[39292,39294,39296,39298],{"text":39293,"start":28440,"end":28464},"Du hast grad schon wieder simulatoren genannt oder simulieren genannt.",{"text":39295,"start":28467,"end":28518},"Wir wollen ja auch noch auf ein Projekt zu sprechen kommen, was Du, glaube ich, mit gestartet hast oder zumindest stark involviert warst.",{"text":39297,"start":28521,"end":28559},"Wobei kann das denn helfen und was, wo geht's da bei Micro oder ist es deutsch?",{"text":4702,"start":28559,"end":28563},{"sentences":39300,"speaker":754,"num_words":38390,"start":28566,"end":28802},[39301,39303,39304,39306,39308],{"text":39302,"start":28566,"end":28582},"Nee, also wir versuchen's als Micro auszusprechen.",{"text":1411,"start":28585,"end":28586},{"text":39305,"start":28588,"end":28602},"Ja, das ist mein kleines Baby.",{"text":39307,"start":28602,"end":28736},"Das hab ich vor, ich glaube, 3 Jahren mittlerweile, 20 22 haben wir das gestartet, eben weil ich die Erfahrungen gemacht habe einerseits in der Industrie, dass es kein schöner Prozess war, immer wieder neue Prototypen zu bekommen und die dann quasi zugeschickt bekommen zu müssen per Post, dann damit arbeiten zu können.",{"text":39309,"start":28738,"end":28802},"Und andererseits, weil wir während Corona gemerkt haben, dass die Ausbildung von unseren Studierenden hart darunter gelitten hat, dass man eben nicht mehr in Labore kam.",{"sentences":39311,"speaker":754,"num_words":38049,"start":28805,"end":29136},[39312,39314,39316,39318,39320],{"text":39313,"start":28805,"end":28887},"Wenn ich normalerweise für Softwareentwicklung nur 'n Computer brauche, hier aber jetzt ständig die Restriktion hab, dass ich einen Board, 'n Mikrocontroller bohrt oder bestimmte Peripherie brauche, dann muss ich das irgendwie remote verfügbar machen.",{"text":39315,"start":28889,"end":28967},"Und die Grundidee von Micro, übrigens erreichbar über Micro Punkt t m Punkt d e, ist, dass wir Versuchsaufbauten für unsere Studierenden komplett digital zur Verfügung stellen.",{"text":39317,"start":28967,"end":29001},"Das heißt, ich hab da ganz, ganz viel netterweise von Lothum gelernt immer wieder.",{"text":39319,"start":29001,"end":29115},"Ich bin sehr dankbar in den letzten Jahren wirklich ganz viel von eurer Kompetenz mitgenommen zu haben, weil zum Beispiel unsere App, die wir dann da haben, eben in Viewjs gebaut ist, weil ich keine Ahnung davon habe und dann natürlich bei euch gemerkt hab, ihr habt genau davon Ahnung.",{"text":39321,"start":29118,"end":29136},"Also bin ich natürlich auch auf das Wert aufgesprungen.",{"sentences":39323,"speaker":754,"num_words":39334,"start":29139,"end":29443},[39324,39326,39328,39330,39332],{"text":39325,"start":29139,"end":29228},"Die Idee von Micro ist jetzt eben, dass wir in einem bestimmten Microcube, den wir haben, das ist einfach son geschlossenes Würfelsystem, dass wir da quasi einen Versuch drinnen haben und diese Würfel quasi replizieren können.",{"text":39327,"start":29228,"end":29269},"Von diesen Würfeln haben wir mittlerweile bei uns an der Hochschule irgendwas, die, ich glaube, 40 Stück.",{"text":39329,"start":29271,"end":29303},"Wir bauen auch immer noch fleißig weiter und jeder Versuch hat quasi seinen eigenen Würfel.",{"text":39331,"start":29303,"end":29409},"Das heißt, wir haben auf sonem Brett in 'nem Cube drinnen den Versuchsaufbau und die Studierenden können per Webcam dieses ganze Ding beobachten und können von zu Hause aus ihren Code nehmen, wenn sie auf soner Station eingeloggt sind, können den da draufladen.",{"text":39333,"start":29413,"end":29443},"Das heißt, der ganze Entwicklungsprozess passiert ganz normal, wie sonst auch aufm eigenen Computer.",125,{"sentences":39336,"speaker":754,"num_words":1115,"start":29446,"end":29679},[39337,39339,39341,39343,39345],{"text":39338,"start":29446,"end":29504},"Und wenn ich denke, die Software, die ich habe, kann ich jetzt testen, schieb ich das einmal bei uns übers VPN eben auf soner Station drauf.",{"text":39340,"start":29504,"end":29534},"Und dann seh ich eben, ob die LEDs Ob er's abbraucht.",{"text":39342,"start":29538,"end":29545},"Ob er's abraucht.",{"text":39344,"start":29549,"end":29637},"Na, wir haben schon darauf geachtet, dass möglichst wenig kaputt machbar ist, aber eben, ob mein Lauflicht so läuft, wie laufen sollte oder ob sich der Servomotor genau in der Geschwindigkeit eine bestimmte Position bewegt.",{"text":39346,"start":29641,"end":29679},"Ob mein Lichtsensor richtig funktioniert, mein Farbsensor die richtige Farbe detektiert oder, oder, oder.",{"sentences":39348,"speaker":273,"num_words":39353,"start":29681,"end":29724},[39349,39351],{"text":39350,"start":29681,"end":29709},"Aber ist dann, also wo kommt dieses Set-up in dem Würfel her?",{"text":39352,"start":29709,"end":29724},"Weil das teilen sich ja dann alle.",19,{"sentences":39355,"speaker":754,"num_words":39360,"start":29726,"end":29827},[39356,39358],{"text":39357,"start":29726,"end":29813},"Die Resurces an sich, also die Cubes an sich teilen sich alle, aber wenn Du dich bei uns im System einmal eingeloggt hast und die Station für dich reserviert hast, gehört sie für die nächsten 10 Minuten dir.",{"text":39359,"start":29816,"end":29827},"Ja, aber da muss ja",43,{"sentences":39362,"speaker":273,"num_words":38682,"start":29827,"end":29895},[39363],{"text":39364,"start":29827,"end":29895},"trotzdem die die Hardware, die da drin ist und die Verkabelung und die, weiß nicht, wenn da, ich brauch da 'n Aktor drin oder 'n Sensor oder keine,",{"sentences":39366,"speaker":754,"num_words":37709,"start":29895,"end":29911},[39367],{"text":39368,"start":29895,"end":29911},"das muss ja drin sein, das",{"sentences":39370,"speaker":273,"num_words":598,"start":29911,"end":29997},[39371,39373],{"text":39372,"start":29911,"end":29928},"muss ja bestückt sein, das meine ich.",{"text":39374,"start":29928,"end":29997},"Das heißt, habt ihr da einmal was reingesteckt, wo quasi alles da ist, was man so brauchen kann oder gibt's da verschiedene Würfel, die verschiedene Set-up mit, also, ne?",{"sentences":39376,"speaker":754,"num_words":37600,"start":29997,"end":30014},[39377],{"text":39378,"start":29997,"end":30014},"Also das System an sich, auch gleich",{"sentences":39380,"speaker":273,"num_words":37719,"start":30014,"end":30057},[39381],{"text":39382,"start":30014,"end":30057},"ist pro Forschungs, also pro eurem Uniprojekt quasi so vorbereitet schon für die Teilnehmende.",{"sentences":39384,"speaker":754,"num_words":39393,"start":30060,"end":30211},[39385,39386,39388,39389,39391],{"text":428,"start":30060,"end":30061},{"text":39387,"start":30061,"end":30096},"Wir haben quasi für verschiedene Lehrmodule haben wir verschiedene verschiedene Experimente vorbereitet.",{"text":1411,"start":30099,"end":30100},{"text":39390,"start":30100,"end":30127},"Wir benutzen das vor allen Dingen, wie gesagt, in meinem Modul logischerweise.",{"text":39392,"start":30130,"end":30211},"Aber wir haben das auch für technische Informatik 2, da hat sich das jetzt richtig, richtig ausgezahlt, dass wir das System haben, weil bei mir, bei Mikroprozessertechnik, da waren das immer 20 Studierende.",59,{"sentences":39395,"speaker":754,"num_words":39402,"start":30211,"end":30311},[39396,39398,39400],{"text":39397,"start":30211,"end":30246},"Die kannst Du auch ganz gut handeln, indem Du die einfach nur im Labor hast.",{"text":39399,"start":30248,"end":30298},"Wenn Du jetzt aber anfängst, 'n Modul mit fast 200 Studierenden zu haben, dann kannst Du nicht mehr 200 Studierenden Hardware bereitstellen.",{"text":39401,"start":30301,"end":30311},"Das macht's irgendwie komplizierter.",41,{"sentences":39404,"speaker":1685,"num_words":273,"start":30314,"end":30315},[39405],{"text":432,"start":30314,"end":30315},{"sentences":39407,"speaker":754,"num_words":37883,"start":30315,"end":30532},[39408,39410,39412,39414,39416],{"text":39409,"start":30315,"end":30372},"die Grundidee da jetzt aber zu sagen, ich hab eben Hardware, die sich Studierende teilen können und einfach remote verfügbar, dann bin sie's auch brauchen.",{"text":39411,"start":30372,"end":30398},"Dann hab ich teilweise Leute, die nutzen das nachts 12.",{"text":39413,"start":30398,"end":30421},"Dann hab ich andere Leute, die benutzen das dann und dann.",{"text":39415,"start":30423,"end":30467},"Und dementsprechend hab ich quasi pro Modul bestimmte Aufbauten, die jeder dann und dann nutzen kann, wenn's grade frei ist.",{"text":39417,"start":30469,"end":30532},"Jetzt sind wir bisher noch nicht großartig in Restriktionen reingelaufen, weil wir einfach so viel bereitstellen, dass wir gar nicht großartig eine zu hohe Last hätten.",{"sentences":39419,"speaker":273,"num_words":38580,"start":30535,"end":30559},[39420,39421,39423],{"text":16580,"start":30535,"end":30536},{"text":39422,"start":30536,"end":30554},"Okay, ja, dann dann macht das Sinn.",{"text":39424,"start":30554,"end":30559},"Ich dachte",{"sentences":39426,"speaker":754,"num_words":37709,"start":30559,"end":30574},[39427],{"text":39428,"start":30559,"end":30574},"nur grade, wie wie schafft ihr",{"sentences":39430,"speaker":273,"num_words":37704,"start":30574,"end":30631},[39431],{"text":39432,"start":30574,"end":30631},"das quasi sone universelle CICD Umgebung bereitzustellen, wenn ja superviel davon an der Hardware irgendwie auch auch mithängt, ganz konkret.",{"sentences":39434,"speaker":754,"num_words":39445,"start":30631,"end":30971},[39435,39437,39439,39441,39443],{"text":39436,"start":30631,"end":30685},"Aber das das richtig Geile bei dem System ist eigentlich, dass wir architektonisch halt eben drauf geachtet haben, das möglichst serviceorientiert aufzubauen.",{"text":39438,"start":30688,"end":30732},"Das heißt, Du hast quasi in jedem von diesen Cubes 'n eigenen Minicomputer, eben 'n raspberry Pi 5 momentan hängen.",{"text":39440,"start":30735,"end":30817},"Und unser Deployment System funktioniert eben so, dass wenn wir eine neue Funktionalität brauchen, können wir einfach einen Service anpassen, zum Beispiel unseren Service und können dann halt auch 'n neuen Mikrocontroller Chip unterstützen.",{"text":39442,"start":30820,"end":30866},"Oder können eben für einen anderes Modul auch irgend eine andere Funktionalität hinzufügen, indem wir nur diesen Service aufdrehen.",{"text":39444,"start":30869,"end":30971},"Und so können wir quasi diese Versuche oder diese diese Cubes an sich für alle Versuche, die wir haben, eigentlich gleich nutzen, weil unser System am Ende eben so anpassbar ist, dass es halt einerseits für Mikroprozessortechnik mit der Toolchain von Microchip funktioniert.",138,{"sentences":39447,"speaker":754,"num_words":38222,"start":30973,"end":31199},[39448,39450,39452],{"text":39449,"start":30973,"end":31069},"Aber auch wenn ich halt 'n TI 2 Versuchsaufbau hab, also technische Informatik 2 auf Arduinobasis, dann nutzt der halt einfach nur im Bild Service eine andere Toolchain, in dem Fall dann eben dieses Arduino Framework im Hintergrund.",{"text":39451,"start":31072,"end":31085},"Und dann funktioniert auch das wunderbar.",{"text":39453,"start":31089,"end":31199},"Bis hin zu, dass wir sogar FPGA Boards mittlerweile da drinnen haben, also quasi programmierbare Logikchips, wo ich selber in der Lage bin, Digitalschaltungen zu programmieren, auch die wieder komplett eigene Ansteuerungsart, eigene Toolchain, aber in dem System bei uns relativ easy anpassbar.",{"sentences":39455,"speaker":294,"num_words":37615,"start":31203,"end":31218},[39456,39457,39458],{"text":31207,"start":31203,"end":31204},{"text":31207,"start":31209,"end":31210},{"text":39459,"start":31212,"end":31218},"Ja, ich freu",{"sentences":39461,"speaker":754,"num_words":37923,"start":31218,"end":31527},[39462,39464,39466,39468,39470],{"text":39463,"start":31218,"end":31237},"mich immer wieder, wenn ich's irgendwo zeigen darf.",{"text":39465,"start":31237,"end":31338},"Ich war jetzt, wie gesagt, auch grade letzte Woche in Ungarn und hab's da gezeigt und beziehungsweise ich war nur remote in Ungarn und hatte da dann eine Kollegin aus, oh, ich glaube, Kolumbien und noch 'nem südamerikanischen Land da.",{"text":39467,"start":31338,"end":31384},"Und die waren auch sofort begeistert und haben gefragt, hey, wie können wir da wie können wir davon profitieren?",{"text":39469,"start":31384,"end":31448},"Weil die Grundidee davon ist ja im besten Fall, dass wir in hoffentlich 'nem Jahr oder 2 'n Netzwerk aufbauen können, wo man einfach Ressourcen sinnvoll teilen kann.",{"text":39471,"start":31450,"end":31527},"Wenn bei uns grade Nacht ist und sowieso niemand die Hardware verwendet, wieso teilen wir die denn da nicht einfach mit 'ner anderen Hochschule, die die Möglichkeit vielleicht besser nutzen könnte zu dem Zeitpunkt?",{"sentences":39473,"speaker":273,"num_words":39482,"start":31530,"end":31651},[39474,39476,39478,39480],{"text":39475,"start":31530,"end":31573},"Und wenn ihr das als Hochschule baut oder entwickelt, wie viel kommerzieller Gedanke schwingt da so mit?",{"text":39477,"start":31575,"end":31625},"Weil, also ich mein, da da hast Du ja grade selber beschrieben, das ist, das ist ja schon 'n halbes Produkt.",{"text":39479,"start":31629,"end":31634},"Ja, so.",{"text":39481,"start":31636,"end":31651},"Ihr könnt das ja auch kommerzialisieren.",46,{"sentences":39484,"speaker":754,"num_words":39495,"start":31655,"end":31862},[39485,39487,39489,39491,39493],{"text":39486,"start":31655,"end":31738},"Sind wir teilweise 'n kleines bisschen schon dran, aber da geht's tatsächlich nicht drum, dass wir uns irgendwie die Taschen vorher machen wollen, sondern dass wir vor allen Dingen eine Finanzierung für unser Projekt aktuell brauchen.",{"text":39488,"start":31740,"end":31766},"Bisher hat das Ganze sehr, sehr gut funktioniert über über unsere Hochschule.",{"text":39490,"start":31769,"end":31783},"Das heißt, ich bin da wahnsinnig dankbar.",{"text":39492,"start":31783,"end":31842},"Wenn ich schätzen müsste, haben wir mit Sicherheit in dem Projekt knapp 400000 Euro stecken, was schon eine ganze, ganze Menge Geld ist.",{"text":39494,"start":31842,"end":31862},"Und wir sind bisher nicht auf Drittmittel angewiesen.",86,{"sentences":39497,"speaker":754,"num_words":38346,"start":31865,"end":32080},[39498,39500,39502,39504,39506],{"text":39499,"start":31865,"end":31884},"In der Forschung ist es leider ja häufig so.",{"text":39501,"start":31884,"end":31976},"Ich weiß nicht, wie deep ihr so in dieser Thematik drinne steckt, aber es ist, wenn man an der Hochschule promoviert oder oder in der Forschung arbeitet, hat man im Normalfall einen befristeten Vertrag für ein bis 3 Jahre.",{"text":39503,"start":31978,"end":32001},"Dann muss der verlängert werden oder man ist weg vom Fenster.",{"text":39505,"start":32004,"end":32032},"Und ich hab die luxuriöse Situation, dass ich 'n entfristeten Vertrag habe.",{"text":39507,"start":32032,"end":32080},"Das heißt, ich bin an der Hochschule für 100 Prozent Lehrer angestellt und hab quasi nebenbei dieses Forschungsprojekt unabhängig aufgezogen.",{"sentences":39509,"speaker":754,"num_words":39518,"start":32080,"end":32324},[39510,39512,39514,39516],{"text":39511,"start":32080,"end":32134},"Und dadurch hat das den Vorteil, dass wir keine großen Fristen haben, dass wir keine Abhängigkeit haben, Geld irgendwie beibringen zu müssen.",{"text":39513,"start":32136,"end":32237},"Wir sind leider jetzt grade dank den Problemen, die das Land Hessen son bisschen momentan hat, in der Situation, dass Finanzierung doch gar nicht so schlecht wäre, weil's Hochschulen, wie man in den Medien mitbekommen hat, momentan nicht so gut geht.",{"text":39515,"start":32240,"end":32297},"Aber deshalb haben wir den Vorteil, dass unser System schon in 'nem sehr, sehr weiten Zustand ist, sodass wir hoffentlich das Ganze nicht verkaufen müssen.",{"text":39517,"start":32297,"end":32324},"Weil verkaufen bedeutet meistens, dass man 'n Stück Freiheit aufgeben muss.",99,{"sentences":39520,"speaker":1685,"num_words":37726,"start":32326,"end":32336},[39521],{"text":39522,"start":32326,"end":32336},"Das ist richtig, ja.",{"sentences":39524,"speaker":754,"num_words":37670,"start":32336,"end":32403},[39525,39527],{"text":39526,"start":32336,"end":32399},"Und das Schöne ist eben bei uns, dass wir momentan noch sehr, sehr unabhängig unsere Forschung und unsere Arbeit da machen können, ohne dass wir diese Abhängigkeit haben.",{"text":32405,"start":32402,"end":32403},{"sentences":39529,"speaker":294,"num_words":39536,"start":32407,"end":32504},[39530,39532,39534],{"text":39531,"start":32407,"end":32417},"Jakob, hätten wir noch irgendwas?",{"text":39533,"start":32421,"end":32471},"Haben wir irgendeinen Bereich von übers übersprungen und dich nicht gefragt und wo Du eigentlich noch hättest, gerne was zu erzählt?",{"text":39535,"start":32474,"end":32504},"Weil wir sind ja relativ blauäugig, sagen wir mal an das Thema rangegangen.",39,{"sentences":39538,"speaker":754,"num_words":273,"start":32508,"end":32509},[39539],{"text":32512,"start":32508,"end":32509},{"sentences":39541,"speaker":294,"num_words":1685,"start":32514,"end":32521},[39542],{"text":39543,"start":32514,"end":32521},"Ehrlich zu sein.",{"sentences":39545,"speaker":273,"num_words":1685,"start":32521,"end":32528},[39546],{"text":39547,"start":32521,"end":32528},"Ich find's auf",{"sentences":39549,"speaker":754,"num_words":39559,"start":32528,"end":32780},[39550,39552,39553,39555,39557],{"text":39551,"start":32528,"end":32616},"jeden Fall sehr schön, dass ihr dem Ganzen überhaupt eine Bühne bietet, weil es für euch mit Sicherheit relativ weit weg ist von dem Daily Business, was sonst Loto ja hier so am Tag hat.",{"text":16580,"start":32616,"end":32618},{"text":39554,"start":32621,"end":32655},"Aber ich glaube, wir haben 'n relativ großen Schnitt tatsächlich, was so die Technologien angeht.",{"text":39556,"start":32657,"end":32740},"Ich würde mir teilweise wünschen, dass es noch viel, viel verbreiteter werde, dass die Leute noch viel mehr damit beschäftigen, weil das ist eigentlich sone coole Spaßwiese, wo man coole Sachen machen kann.",{"text":39558,"start":32742,"end":32780},"Und vielen Studierenden bei uns ist es häufig gar nicht so bewusst, dass es diese Thematik überhaupt gibt.",102,{"sentences":39561,"speaker":754,"num_words":39572,"start":32780,"end":33007},[39562,39564,39566,39568,39570],{"text":39563,"start":32780,"end":32827},"Und dann kommt wieder neues Buzzword wie zum Beispiel dann eben künstliche Intelligenz oder LLMs, die dann alles überfluten.",{"text":39565,"start":32830,"end":32907},"Und uns wiederum fehlen die Studierenden, die so was machen, weil eben grade alle irgendwie nur noch auf diesen einen Hypetrain aufspringen und denken, das ist das Einzige, was es nur noch geben muss.",{"text":39567,"start":32909,"end":32938},"Aber in der Zukunft brauchen wir immer noch Leute, die Maschinenbau studiert haben.",{"text":39569,"start":32938,"end":32975},"Wir brauchen immer noch Leute, die Elektrotechnik oder eben Embedded Systems als Schwerpunkt irgendwie haben.",{"text":39571,"start":32975,"end":33007},"Ansonsten, wir wir können nicht alle nur LLMs können, das wird nicht funktionieren.",94,{"sentences":39574,"speaker":294,"num_words":38630,"start":33010,"end":33111},[39575,39576,39578,39580],{"text":16580,"start":33010,"end":33011},{"text":39577,"start":33015,"end":33020},"Nee, ist richtig.",{"text":39579,"start":33020,"end":33061},"Also ich fand's superspannend, mir hat's mir hat's superviel Spaß gemacht, das zu hören.",{"text":39581,"start":33061,"end":33111},"Und tatsächlich auch son bisschen, also auch eine Neugierde halt wirklich, das Ding ist halt, ich weiß Er weiß",{"sentences":39583,"speaker":273,"num_words":37714,"start":33111,"end":33137},[39584],{"text":39585,"start":33111,"end":33137},"doch mal deinen Wasserzähler zu Hause jetzt zum Bau in selbst.",{"sentences":39587,"speaker":294,"num_words":37883,"start":33137,"end":33357},[39588,39590,39592,39594],{"text":39589,"start":33137,"end":33147},"Ja, genau, zum Beispiel.",{"text":39591,"start":33150,"end":33254},"Ich hab auch, also das nicht selbst gebaut ist, aber halt auch 'n Heizungssystem zum Beispiel, ne, wo alle möglichen Sensoren und so was sind, wo die UI jetzt nicht besonders toll ist, da hab ich auch schon gemacht, das kann man wahrscheinlich auch besser machen.",{"text":39593,"start":33256,"end":33321},"Ich weiß, dass es zeitlich ein Problem wird, ne, aber ich würde und ich würde mir auch gerne mal, also eine eigene Platine ist schon was Geiles auch, oder?",{"text":39595,"start":33323,"end":33357},"Mal so selbst irgendwie die zu malen, hab ich irgendwie auch Bock drauf.",{"sentences":39597,"speaker":754,"num_words":1115,"start":33357,"end":33564},[39598,39600,39601,39603,39604],{"text":39599,"start":33357,"end":33444},"Da siehst Du tatsächlich auch immer wieder, wenn unsere Studierenden das das erste Mal machen, dann packen die immer irgendwo ihren Namen drauf und daran merkst Du immer schon, ah, der ist son kleiner Stolz, der da mitschwingt.",{"text":16580,"start":33444,"end":33448},{"text":39602,"start":33448,"end":33552},"Und wenn die die dann selber auspacken, da sind die so wahnsinnig drauf, dass wenn das kommt, dann wollen die immer das Paket abholen und die wollen's aufmachen und das erste Mal in der Hand halten und dann siehst Du das glitzern in den Augen.",{"text":16580,"start":33552,"end":33555},{"text":39605,"start":33555,"end":33564},"Das ist schon schön.",{"sentences":39607,"speaker":754,"num_words":273,"start":33564,"end":33567},[39608],{"text":813,"start":33564,"end":33567},{"sentences":39610,"speaker":294,"num_words":38682,"start":33567,"end":33641},[39611,39613],{"text":39612,"start":33567,"end":33629},"hätte auch nämlich gedacht, dass ich sone Leiterbahn in irgend 'nem in irgend 'ner Form da drauf packe, die dann meine Initialen werden.",{"text":39614,"start":33629,"end":33641},"Also weil direkt so, oh",{"sentences":39616,"speaker":273,"num_words":37642,"start":33641,"end":33665},[39617],{"text":39618,"start":33641,"end":33665},"irgendwas, ja, so schreiben wir die Kamera drauf.",{"sentences":39620,"speaker":294,"num_words":37806,"start":33665,"end":33716},[39621],{"text":39622,"start":33665,"end":33716},"Ja, oder eine Kleiderbahn, irgendwas noch zeichnen, so die Apple Philosophie, dass auch die Leiterbahn schön designt ist.",{"sentences":39624,"speaker":754,"num_words":38222,"start":33716,"end":33933},[39625,39627,39629,39631,39633],{"text":39626,"start":33716,"end":33750},"Kleine Anekdote dazu, da gibt's tatsächlich Menschen, die Kunst in dem Bereich betreiben.",{"text":39628,"start":33753,"end":33828},"Also es gibt Menschen, wenn Du, ich hab hab son paar Platinen zu Hause von 'nem Kollegen, der eben mal bei in soner Firma gearbeitet hat, wo Platinen hergestellt werden und Chips hergestellt werden.",{"text":39630,"start":33830,"end":33871},"Und dann sind wir mit 'nem Mikroskop reingegangen und haben sehr, sehr hoch aufgelöste Aufnahmen gemacht.",{"text":39632,"start":33871,"end":33898},"Und dann siehst Du, dass da teilweise kleine Grafiken drinnen sind.",{"text":39634,"start":33898,"end":33933},"Da hat jemand 'n kleinen Tannenbaum irgendwo rein gemalt, mitten neben die Leiterbahnen.",{"sentences":39636,"speaker":754,"num_words":38747,"start":33936,"end":33985},[39637],{"text":39638,"start":33936,"end":33985},"Also es ist wirklich, die Leute verewigen sich da son bisschen und zeigen so, guck mal, hier ist so, das ist von mir.",{"sentences":39640,"speaker":294,"num_words":38397,"start":33988,"end":34130},[39641,39643,39645,39647,39649],{"text":39642,"start":33988,"end":34000},"Ja, ich danke gern.",{"text":39644,"start":34000,"end":34009},"Na, ist schön.",{"text":39646,"start":34011,"end":34054},"Vielen, vielen Dank für den Teil schon mal und es folgen noch die Pics of the day.",{"text":39648,"start":34056,"end":34062},"Ich fang an.",{"text":39650,"start":34065,"end":34130},"Hab natürlich lang vorbereitet eine große Liste an auf der Day, auf denen ich mich bedienen kann und passend zur heutigen Folge wähle ich einen.",{"sentences":39652,"speaker":294,"num_words":37675,"start":34130,"end":34186},[39653,39655],{"text":39654,"start":34130,"end":34153},"Ich glaub, hatten wir noch nicht, was eigentlich komisch ist.",{"text":39656,"start":34153,"end":34186},"Es hat noch niemand home Assistant, glaub ich, gewählt als PKFZA.",{"sentences":39658,"speaker":754,"num_words":754,"start":34191,"end":34196},[39659],{"text":39660,"start":34191,"end":34196},"Lustig, da",{"sentences":39662,"speaker":273,"num_words":37600,"start":34196,"end":34213},[39663],{"text":39664,"start":34196,"end":34213},"haben wir heute beim Mittagessen drüber gesprochen.",{"sentences":39666,"speaker":294,"num_words":37704,"start":34216,"end":34267},[39667,39668,39670],{"text":16580,"start":34216,"end":34217},{"text":39669,"start":34220,"end":34254},"Und hat ja ein bisschen mit Microcontrollern zumindest nur, aber man braucht sie dafür.",{"text":39671,"start":34254,"end":34267},"Also Home Assistant ist ein",{"sentences":39673,"speaker":1685,"num_words":754,"start":34269,"end":34274},[39674],{"text":39675,"start":34269,"end":34274},"System, keine",{"sentences":39677,"speaker":294,"num_words":37600,"start":34276,"end":34291},[39678],{"text":39679,"start":34276,"end":34291},"Ahnung, mit dem man sein Haus automatisiert.",{"sentences":39681,"speaker":754,"num_words":37726,"start":34293,"end":34303},[39682],{"text":39683,"start":34293,"end":34303},"Also laut unserer Suche",{"sentences":39685,"speaker":273,"num_words":37764,"start":34303,"end":34342},[39686],{"text":39687,"start":34303,"end":34342},"ist es schon mal erwähnt worden, aber nur war noch nie 'n Pick of the day.",{"sentences":39689,"speaker":294,"num_words":37839,"start":34342,"end":34518},[39690,39692,39694,39696],{"text":39691,"start":34342,"end":34347},"Ja, okay.",{"text":39693,"start":34347,"end":34462},"Und also das Ding ist halt wirklich, man kann, es ist kompatibel, man kann praktisch alles an Geräten und Sensoren und keine Ahnung, was da reinstopfen und relativ übersichtlich und einfach sich automatisieren Automatisierungen bauen, sich Dashboards bauen für irgendwelche Temperaturen und so weiter.",{"text":39695,"start":34462,"end":34515},"Also wahnsinnig viel, alles was mit Hausautomatisierung, mit Licht, mit keine Ahnung was, dann Kompatibilität mit Apple und Home, wie heißt es?",{"text":33694,"start":34517,"end":34518},{"sentences":39698,"speaker":273,"num_words":754,"start":34520,"end":34524},[39699],{"text":39700,"start":34520,"end":34524},"Home Kit.",{"sentences":39702,"speaker":294,"num_words":37764,"start":34528,"end":34572},[39703,39705,39707],{"text":39704,"start":34528,"end":34540},"Home Kit und so weiter.",{"text":39706,"start":34543,"end":34559},"Android Home, also eigentlich in alle Richtungen.",{"text":39708,"start":34563,"end":34572},"Wahnsinn kompatibel sehr, sehr",{"sentences":39710,"speaker":273,"num_words":38682,"start":34572,"end":34645},[39711,39713],{"text":39712,"start":34572,"end":34606},"viel weiterentwickelt, 'n Open Source Projekt, glaube ich, ist es in Sommer.",{"text":39714,"start":34610,"end":34645},"Ich glaub mittlerweile sogar 1 der größten Open Source Projekte auf GitHub hab ich mal irgendwo",{"sentences":39716,"speaker":1685,"num_words":273,"start":34647,"end":34648},[39717],{"text":16580,"start":34647,"end":34648},{"sentences":39719,"speaker":273,"num_words":37726,"start":34652,"end":34661},[39720],{"text":39721,"start":34652,"end":34661},"Google gehört oder so.",{"sentences":39723,"speaker":294,"num_words":38397,"start":34661,"end":34801},[39724,39725,39727,39729,39731],{"text":16580,"start":34661,"end":34663},{"text":39726,"start":34666,"end":34707},"Ist jetzt nicht, ich bin jetzt nicht der tiefste Experte drin, aber ich find eigentlich alles cool.",{"text":39728,"start":34707,"end":34755},"Ich hab zumindest 'n Raspery zu Hause laufen, wo das drauf läuft und ein paar meiner Sensordaten dort reinlaufen.",{"text":39730,"start":34759,"end":34774},"Von daher ist es heute mein passender.",{"text":39732,"start":34778,"end":34801},"So Jan, jetzt komm, machen wir was Passendes.",{"sentences":39734,"speaker":273,"num_words":754,"start":34804,"end":34808},[39735],{"text":39736,"start":34804,"end":34808},"Was Passendes?",{"sentences":39738,"speaker":294,"num_words":1685,"start":34813,"end":34823},[39739],{"text":39740,"start":34813,"end":34823},"Nein, nein, Du",{"sentences":39742,"speaker":1685,"num_words":273,"start":34823,"end":34826},[39743],{"text":34825,"start":34823,"end":34826},{"sentences":39745,"speaker":294,"num_words":37726,"start":34826,"end":34836},[39746],{"text":39747,"start":34826,"end":34836},"Du darfst alles nehmen.",{"sentences":39749,"speaker":273,"num_words":39760,"start":34836,"end":34981},[39750,39752,39754,39756,39758],{"text":39751,"start":34836,"end":34850},"Ich hab auch nix Passendes dabei.",{"text":39753,"start":34850,"end":34864},"Ich hab was Lustiges dabei.",{"text":39755,"start":34866,"end":34899},"Und zwar hab ich not a robot und da geht es Captchas.",{"text":39757,"start":34902,"end":34945},"Die könnt ich jetzt mal aufmachen, Jakob hat kein Recht dran dabei, aber Dennis kann's aufmachen.",{"text":39759,"start":34945,"end":34981},"Unter Neil dot fun Slash Not dash a dash Robo.",49,{"sentences":39762,"speaker":294,"num_words":37790,"start":34985,"end":35009},[39763,39765],{"text":39764,"start":34985,"end":35003},"Oh, warte mal, Neil Punkt Fun Slash.",{"text":39766,"start":35006,"end":35009},"Not dash",{"sentences":39768,"speaker":273,"num_words":1459,"start":35011,"end":35341},[39769,39771,39773,39775,39777],{"text":39770,"start":35011,"end":35018},"a dash Robo.",{"text":39772,"start":35021,"end":35101},"Und was Du da präsentiert bekommst, ist eine sehr lange Reihe immer komplizierter werdender Captures und ausgefallener werdenden Captures, zu beweisen, dass Du eben kein Roboter bist.",{"text":39774,"start":35101,"end":35237},"Das Erste ist so, das kennt man so von Google, reCaptcha, kreuzt dir an, ich bin kein Roboter, dann kommen diese wunderbaren Grafik Captchas und es wird halt immer immer ausgefallener und obskurer hin zu, weiß ich nicht, sortiere irgendwelche Gedichte in 'ner Reihenfolge und bla bla bla.",{"text":39776,"start":35240,"end":35264},"Und das ist also, es macht einfach nur Spaß so, ja?",{"text":39778,"start":35264,"end":35341},"Und irgendwann kommt man halt an den Punkt, wo man aufgibt, weil man zu genervt ist oder die Aufgabe zu komplex wird oder okay, dann bin ich halt doch kein Mensch mehr.",{"sentences":39780,"speaker":273,"num_words":38443,"start":35341,"end":35540},[39781,39783],{"text":39782,"start":35341,"end":35464},"Das macht schon, das macht viel Spaß, so, man muss 'n bisschen puzzlen, es ist so, das kann man mal in einem Browser Tab irgendwie offen haben und immer, wenn man mal 10 Sekunden Abwechslung braucht zwischendrin, kann man sich mal wieder eine Capture Ebene weiter durchlaufen.",{"text":39784,"start":35464,"end":35540},"Ihr könnt ja bei uns im Discord mal schreiben, wie weit ihr gekommen seid oder in welchem Capture ihr aufgegeben habt und verzweifelt habt und eingesehen habt, dass ihr doch kein Mensch seid.",{"sentences":39786,"speaker":754,"num_words":37600,"start":35543,"end":35558},[39787],{"text":39788,"start":35543,"end":35558},"Das ist mein Pick of the day.",{"sentences":39790,"speaker":294,"num_words":38580,"start":35558,"end":35588},[39791,39793,39794,39796],{"text":39792,"start":35558,"end":35570},"Sorry, ich bin abgelenkt.",{"text":16580,"start":35570,"end":35574},{"text":39795,"start":35578,"end":35582},"Macht was.",{"text":39797,"start":35582,"end":35588},"Wie weit bist",{"sentences":39799,"speaker":273,"num_words":37726,"start":35588,"end":35599},[39800],{"text":39801,"start":35588,"end":35599},"Du, ich komm, das",{"sentences":39803,"speaker":754,"num_words":37726,"start":35599,"end":35608},[39804],{"text":39805,"start":35599,"end":35608},"sieht aus wie eine",{"sentences":39807,"speaker":273,"num_words":37726,"start":35608,"end":35619},[39808],{"text":39809,"start":35608,"end":35619},"mit 3 oder 4.",{"sentences":39811,"speaker":294,"num_words":1685,"start":35619,"end":35629},[39812],{"text":39813,"start":35619,"end":35629},"5 bin ich.",{"sentences":39815,"speaker":273,"num_words":1685,"start":35629,"end":35637},[39816],{"text":39817,"start":35629,"end":35637},"Ja, siehst Du?",{"sentences":39819,"speaker":754,"num_words":37600,"start":35637,"end":35654},[39820,39821],{"text":16580,"start":35637,"end":35640},{"text":39822,"start":35640,"end":35654},"Und das macht dich nicht wahnsinnig?",{"sentences":39824,"speaker":273,"num_words":37600,"start":35657,"end":35675},[39825],{"text":39826,"start":35657,"end":35675},"Wir haben schon ganz andere Pixie gehabt.",{"sentences":39828,"speaker":754,"num_words":37806,"start":35677,"end":35721},[39829],{"text":39830,"start":35677,"end":35721},"Aber ich find so schon immer diese diese Capture Dinger so schwierig und ich mach's so oft falsch.",{"sentences":39832,"speaker":273,"num_words":37806,"start":35724,"end":35765},[39833,39834,39835,39837],{"text":16580,"start":35724,"end":35725},{"text":16580,"start":35728,"end":35729},{"text":39836,"start":35729,"end":35755},"Dennis ist raus für die Folge, ist jetzt mit Capture beschäftigt.",{"text":39838,"start":35755,"end":35765},"Jakob, was hast Du so",{"sentences":39840,"speaker":294,"num_words":37709,"start":35769,"end":35783},[39841],{"text":39842,"start":35769,"end":35783},"Ey, das geht doch gar nicht.",{"sentences":39844,"speaker":273,"num_words":37790,"start":35785,"end":35811},[39845],{"text":39846,"start":35785,"end":35811},"Bist obwohl kein Mensch Dennis Level 6 ausgeschrieben hatte.",{"sentences":39848,"speaker":294,"num_words":37709,"start":35814,"end":35829},[39849,39850],{"text":1411,"start":35814,"end":35815},{"text":39851,"start":35818,"end":35829},"Jakob, was soll ich denn?",{"sentences":39853,"speaker":754,"num_words":598,"start":35829,"end":35920},[39854,39856,39857,39859,39861],{"text":39855,"start":35829,"end":35849},"Ja, jetzt bin ich auch abgelenkt von dir.",{"text":1411,"start":35849,"end":35851},{"text":39858,"start":35854,"end":35873},"Ja, dann würde ich spontan aber noch was machen.",{"text":39860,"start":35873,"end":35913},"Was sagt ihr dann, was, also gerade weil weil ihr so interessiert wart bei dieser Platinherstellung.",{"text":39862,"start":35916,"end":35920},"Ja, passt.",{"sentences":39864,"speaker":754,"num_words":37839,"start":35920,"end":36092},[39865,39867,39869,39871,39873],{"text":39866,"start":35920,"end":35947},"Machen wir doch passend hier zu Platinherstellung einfach mal selber machen.",{"text":39868,"start":35949,"end":35994},"Also ich kann allen empfehlen, dass sie einerseits als Software verwenden, weil das sehr, sehr einsteigerfreundlich ist.",{"text":39870,"start":35994,"end":36021},"Damit kann ich easy meinen allerersten Schaltplan zeichnen, wenn ich das möchte.",{"text":39872,"start":36023,"end":36056},"Das ist relativ groß, relativ umfassend, wenn wenn's Teile und so weiter geht.",{"text":39874,"start":36056,"end":36092},"Also mit KI CAD kann man sehr, sehr schön seine ersten Schritte in dem Bereich machen.",{"sentences":39876,"speaker":754,"num_words":37870,"start":36094,"end":36245},[39877,39879,39881,39883,39885],{"text":39878,"start":36094,"end":36131},"Wenn man das dann alles einmal fertig hat, hab ich persönlich sehr gute Erfahrungen mit JLCPCB gemacht.",{"text":39880,"start":36133,"end":36170},"Es gibt als Alternative auch PCB way, aber es gibt bestimmt auch noch andere Hersteller.",{"text":39882,"start":36172,"end":36192},"Und das ist gar nicht so teuer, wie man denkt.",{"text":39884,"start":36192,"end":36208},"Das habe ich ja eben schon erzählt.",{"text":39886,"start":36208,"end":36245},"Also für 5 Platinen im 100 mal 100 Millimeter Bereich ist man da bei 2 Dollar.",{"sentences":39888,"speaker":754,"num_words":39559,"start":36248,"end":36489},[39889,39891,39893,39895],{"text":39890,"start":36248,"end":36312},"Und wenn man sagt, man man bestellt das jetzt nicht per DHL Express, dann geht das sogar versandkostenfrei teilweise, also dann bezahle ich wirklich 2 Dollar für 5 Platinen.",{"text":39892,"start":36315,"end":36324},"Das ist 'n Schnapper.",{"text":39894,"start":36328,"end":36483},"Wenn ich mir dann auch die einzelnen Bauteile irgendwo mit her herbestelle von Konrad oder Reichelt oder so in Deutschland oder halt eben auch bestücken lasse das Ganze, kann man auf jeden Fall mal 'n bisschen mit rumspielen, wenn man abends irgendwie Langeweile hat und sich denkt, ich will mal was Neues lernen, ich will mal irgendwas machen, ich sonst vielleicht noch nicht so kennengelernt hab.",{"text":39896,"start":36483,"end":36489},"Also ich guck",{"sentences":39898,"speaker":294,"num_words":37642,"start":36489,"end":36507},[39899],{"text":39900,"start":36489,"end":36507},"mir das grade Langeweile hätte ich gern mal.",{"sentences":39902,"speaker":1685,"num_words":37726,"start":36507,"end":36516},[39903],{"text":39904,"start":36507,"end":36516},"Ja, ich würd mir",{"sentences":39906,"speaker":754,"num_words":39393,"start":36516,"end":36655},[39907,39909],{"text":39908,"start":36516,"end":36572},"auch wünschen, viel mehr Zeit dafür zu haben, weil ich bin immer sehr, ich hab das ja auch studiert, genau weil ich das so cool fand.",{"text":39910,"start":36575,"end":36655},"Und heute ist es leider immer so, dass ich dann meinen ganzen Studierenden immer über die Schulter gucke und neidisch bin, wenn ich sehe, dass sie das alles erleben und neu erleben dürfen.",{"sentences":39912,"speaker":273,"num_words":38723,"start":36657,"end":36809},[39913,39915,39917],{"text":39914,"start":36657,"end":36728},"Also also das JLCPCB lohnt sich allein deshalb schon, weil sie auf ihrer Startseite son cooles Video haben aus ihrer Fabrik, wie das überhaupt so alles läuft.",{"text":39916,"start":36728,"end":36798},"Und wer sich das mal anschauen will, was Jakob eben so beschrieben hat, kann man das Video, glaub ich, sone Minute oder anderthalb, kann man's einfach das mal geben.",{"text":39918,"start":36800,"end":36809},"Ist auch ganz interessant.",{"sentences":39920,"speaker":754,"num_words":37799,"start":36812,"end":36920},[39921,39923,39925,39927,39929],{"text":39922,"start":36812,"end":36829},"Ist leider immer son bisschen übersetzungstechnisch schwierig.",{"text":39924,"start":36832,"end":36876},"Es kann sein, dass da Sachen mal nicht so ganz passen, weil das eben ausm Chinesischen teilweise übersetzt wird.",{"text":39926,"start":36876,"end":36890},"Keine Sorge, ist kein Scam.",{"text":39928,"start":36890,"end":36904},"Ich bestell da wirklich häufiger.",{"text":39930,"start":36908,"end":36920},"Ist 'n sehr, sehr cooler Laden.",{"sentences":39932,"speaker":754,"num_words":273,"start":36923,"end":36924},[39933],{"text":36926,"start":36923,"end":36924},{"sentences":39935,"speaker":294,"num_words":273,"start":36928,"end":36929},[39936],{"text":31207,"start":36928,"end":36929},{"sentences":39938,"speaker":273,"num_words":38610,"start":36932,"end":36965},[39939],{"text":39940,"start":36932,"end":36965},"Dennis ist noch geflasht und überleg grade, was er als Nächstes bestellen kann.",{"sentences":39942,"speaker":294,"num_words":38682,"start":36967,"end":37047},[39943,39945,39947],{"text":39944,"start":36967,"end":36975},"Ja, ich guck mal.",{"text":39946,"start":36977,"end":36996},"Ich wollt grad mal meinen Computer zuklappen.",{"text":39948,"start":37000,"end":37047},"Aber dann wär die Aufnahme vielleicht sagen wir vorher noch tschüs, bevor ich einfach deinen Computer zuklappe.",{"sentences":39950,"speaker":1685,"num_words":273,"start":37051,"end":37052},[39951],{"text":1411,"start":37051,"end":37052},{"sentences":39953,"speaker":294,"num_words":39572,"start":37055,"end":37289},[39954,39956,39958,39960],{"text":39955,"start":37055,"end":37116},"Ja, Jakob, vielen, vielen Dank, dass Du hier vorbeigeschaut hast und ja auch tatsächlich hier vor Ort mit uns aufm Sofa sitzen kannst.",{"text":39957,"start":37118,"end":37188},"Habt ihr so viel Spaß gemacht, war sehr, sehr interessant und wie gesagt, hat auch ein bisschen geweckt, eine Motivation irgendwie was machen zu wollen in dem Bereich.",{"text":39959,"start":37188,"end":37208},"Ich hoffe, das geht einigen Hörer*innen da draußen genauso.",{"text":39961,"start":37211,"end":37289},"Wenn ihr Feedback habt zu der Folge, schreibt uns gerne an Podcast app programmierbar oder auch wenn ihr Fragen habt, da dürft ihr die bestimmt stellen und wir leiten sie entweder weiter an Jakob.",{"sentences":39963,"speaker":273,"num_words":37709,"start":37291,"end":37304},[39964],{"text":39965,"start":37291,"end":37304},"Oder kommt in unseren Discord Server?",{"sentences":39967,"speaker":294,"num_words":37600,"start":37304,"end":37321},[39968],{"text":39969,"start":37304,"end":37321},"Oh, der kommt auf unseren Discord Server.",{"sentences":39971,"speaker":273,"num_words":754,"start":37325,"end":37329},[39972],{"text":39973,"start":37325,"end":37329},"Auf oder",{"sentences":39975,"speaker":754,"num_words":754,"start":37331,"end":37336},[39976],{"text":39977,"start":37331,"end":37336},"wo kommt",{"sentences":39979,"speaker":273,"num_words":1685,"start":37336,"end":37343},[39980],{"text":39981,"start":37336,"end":37343},"man da hin?",{"sentences":39983,"speaker":1685,"num_words":754,"start":37343,"end":37350},[39984],{"text":39985,"start":37343,"end":37350},"Kommt man",{"sentences":39987,"speaker":273,"num_words":38580,"start":37350,"end":37376},[39988,39990,39992],{"text":39989,"start":37350,"end":37357},"auf einen Server?",{"text":39991,"start":37357,"end":37368},"Kommt man den Inhaltserver?",{"text":39993,"start":37368,"end":37376},"Ich hab auf,",{"sentences":39995,"speaker":1685,"num_words":754,"start":37376,"end":37382},[39996],{"text":39997,"start":37376,"end":37382},"glaub ich,",{"sentences":39999,"speaker":294,"num_words":38575,"start":37382,"end":37416},[40000,40002,40003,40004,40006],{"text":40001,"start":37382,"end":37389},"auf, oder?",{"text":37394,"start":37391,"end":37392},{"text":1411,"start":37396,"end":37397},{"text":40005,"start":37399,"end":37404},"Kommt kommt drauf.",{"text":40007,"start":37406,"end":37416},"Haben wir noch die Möglichkeit?",{"sentences":40009,"speaker":294,"num_words":37790,"start":37420,"end":37442},[40010,40012],{"text":40011,"start":37420,"end":37428},"Nee, haben wir nicht.",{"text":40013,"start":37430,"end":37442},"Ist 'n Deep Dive, sorry.",{"sentences":40015,"speaker":754,"num_words":37709,"start":37445,"end":37460},[40016,40017,40018],{"text":16580,"start":37445,"end":37446},{"text":428,"start":37450,"end":37451},{"text":40019,"start":37451,"end":37460},"Wir wissen nicht, wenn",{"sentences":40021,"speaker":294,"num_words":37906,"start":37460,"end":37537},[40022,40024,40026],{"text":40023,"start":37460,"end":37486},"er veröffentlicht würde, können keine Werbung früher zur Konferenz machen.",{"text":40025,"start":37486,"end":37530},"Die bestimmt stattgefunden hat und schon ganz toll war, aber es keine Tickets mit gibt's in der Vergangenheit liegt.",{"text":40027,"start":37530,"end":37537},"Noch irgendwas vergessen?",{"sentences":40029,"speaker":1685,"num_words":37726,"start":37540,"end":37548},[40030,40031],{"text":28438,"start":37540,"end":37541},{"text":40032,"start":37541,"end":37548},"Vielen, vielen Dank.",{"sentences":40034,"speaker":273,"num_words":37726,"start":37548,"end":37560},[40035,40037],{"text":40036,"start":37548,"end":37555},"Danke Jakob.",{"text":40038,"start":37555,"end":37560},"Bis zum",{"sentences":40040,"speaker":294,"num_words":37615,"start":37560,"end":37575},[40041,40043,40045],{"text":40042,"start":37560,"end":37565},"nächsten Mal.",{"text":40044,"start":37565,"end":37572},"Macht's gut.",{"text":37576,"start":37572,"end":37575},{"sentences":40047,"speaker":1685,"num_words":273,"start":37579,"end":37580},[40048],{"text":37583,"start":37579,"end":37580},[40050,40067,40098,40102,40122,40135,40158,40167,40213,40221,40227,40231,40290,40310,40339,40359,40371,40397,40420,40445,40462,40482,40486,40499,40510,40519,40527,40576,40592,40617,40630,40641,40677,40683,40736,40846,40867,40873,40877,40901,40921,40989,40993,41061,41120,41155,41171,41179,41189,41195,41218,41247,41251,41255,41259,41269,41275,41285,41336,41354,41395,41419,41437,41458,41471,41500,41504,41508,41512,41530,41543,41561,41565,41700,41711,41747,41795,41809,41820,41852,41873,41877,41885,41892,41909,41921,41942,41974,42024,42031,42091,42103,42107,42132,42143,42160,42248,42262,42273,42288,42308,42323,42363,42393,42432,42467,42522,42537,42567,42587,42628,42632,42636,42714,42745,42755,42777,42785,42816,42832,42865,42958,42974,43002,43009,43021,43046,43055,43090,43169,43182,43200,43230,43288,43336,43376,43414,43426,43464,43502,43530,43548,43569,43589,43602,43616,43624,43728,43777,43785,43792,43805,43825,43836,43845,43853,43863,43882,43888,43894,43907,43928,43932,43949,43960,43970,44008,44029,44062,44076,44128,44166,44201,44236,44268,44278,44306,44328,44357,44377,44405,44425,44465,44494,44506,44519,44546,44561,44629,44645,44677,44708,44729,44796,44823,44830,44845,44849,44857,44871,44905,44927,44935,44949,44980,45015,45025,45033,45037,45044,45053,45079,45088,45120,45166,45224,45264,45280,45300,45308,45323,45344,45367,45378,45382,45403,45435,45444,45469,45493,45504,45515,45578,45590,45613,45644,45648,45660,45712,45726,45736,45740,45747,45763,45777,45801,45840,45846,45862,45875,45902,45934,45938,45951,45966,45995,46013,46037,46062,46081,46094,46129,46153,46193,46214,46218,46261,46271,46297,46342,46361,46380,46407,46441,46448,46460,46482,46495,46503,46542,46562,46582,46614,46623,46641,46651,46703,46721,46748,46755,46777,46788,46809,46844,46922,46932,46944,46989,47018,47028,47035,47080,47092,47142,47159,47180,47209,47231,47242,47252,47283,47323,47346,47370,47391,47407,47447,47461,47492,47511,47537,47577,47597,47666,47718,47802,47841,47865,47875,47888,47895,47912,47934,47958,47975,47997,48006,48023,48060,48091,48118,48146,48199,48225,48278,48303,48332,48377,48414,48463,48482,48524,48551,48580,48601,48640,48644,48656,48735,48742,48748,48781,48785,48807,48818,48887,48922,48926,48959,48970,49008,49017,49021,49046,49082,49100,49114,49125,49170,49177,49184,49194,49198,49212,49216,49228,49249,49253,49284,49303,49348,49379,49416,49428,49443,49463,49483,49526,49569,49605,49624,49628,49632,49646,49666,49682,49686,49703,49730,49741,49751,49780,49808,49831,49852,49864,49886,49909,49942,49986,49996,50000,50064,50068,50078,50116,50120,50139,50163,50171,50186,50231,50237,50277,50331,50335,50354,50413,50427,50447,50463,50471,50483,50492,50498,50506,50515,50519,50593,50599,50630,50637,50660,50668,50685,50693,50716,50771,50777,50811,50822,50828,50839,50843,50853,50863,50881,50901,50917,50927,50951,50968,50988,50997,51016,51033,51046,51050,51089,51104,51129,51147,51197,51225,51265,51298,51370,51388,51406,51419,51485,51516,51534,51599,51633,51657,51663,51706,51795,51822,51950,51966,52036,52055,52080,52096,52123,52145,52149,52156,52160,52222,52229,52241,52250,52261,52287,52383,52397,52407,52441,52478,52489,52505,52542,52554,52564,52632,52654,52735,52744,52795,52879,52886,52905,52909,52940,53014,53027,53045,53071,53104,53116,53148,53158,53167,53194,53210,53228,53254,53286,53328,53383,53387,53401,53442,53475,53488,53514,53518,53548,53568,53592,53607,53637,53664,53687,53713,53741,53759,53767,53788,53953,53963,53985,53994,54044,54050,54102,54148,54158,54184,54226,54264,54280,54314,54326,54361,54372,54393,54420,54430,54459,54466,54477,54484,54498,54502,54506,54556,54560,54568,54646,54667,54675,54682,54692,54720,54729,54733,54746,54779,54792,54830,54933,54962,54973,55001,55018,55043,55064,55101,55105,55114,55124,55145,55162,55166,55189,55218,55222,55274,55316,55354,55400,55413,55433,55467,55497,55523,55556,55682,55716,55749,55820,55863,55877,55883,55906,55936,55942,55946,55961,55985,55991,56002,56030,56034,56064,56075,56098,56109,56131,56181,56222,56233,56239,56252,56288,56326,56336,56342,56353,56363,56375,56382,56386,56407,56422,56455,56491,56536,56542,56550,56598,56645,56656,56678,56682,56704,56714,56729,56748,56778,56792,56801,56817,56840,56849,56853,56897,56901,56920,56976,56992,57000,57033,57153,57157,57184,57213,57222,57226,57241,57276,57285,57289,57293,57310,57332,57349,57359,57369,57377,57391,57453,57472,57514,57523,57532,57584,57602],{"start":291,"end":345,"confidence":40051,"channel":294,"transcript":37590,"words":40052,"speaker":294,"id":40066},0.8916079,[40053,40054,40055,40056,40057,40058,40059,40060,40061,40062,40063,40064,40065],{"word":290,"start":291,"end":292,"confidence":293,"speaker":294,"speaker_confidence":295,"punctuated_word":296},{"word":298,"start":292,"end":299,"confidence":300,"speaker":294,"speaker_confidence":295,"punctuated_word":298},{"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